Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Baptes]

To be fair that's not all that uncommon. I've seen WoW pull that trick before...

 

But also, I'm pretty sure they have sent all their design priorities into the new cartel shop gear.

 

Lastly, the tier designs have been incredibly unpopular from the start and many have thought that the idea of designing tier sets for the Star Wars universe is daunting. I'm hedging bets on the future of operation drops being mod sets.

Also they are working on the whole "gamble box" thing too.

New raid armor art going into gambling boxes.

Kinda lame when I see this game intent on copying Perfect World on its most obnoxious aspect of their games.

[Uluain]

Discovery: HallHood has disabled private messages, so there goes one more line of enquiry.

[Ixum]

Well, tweet (1 of 2) seems to have vanished into the Great Beyond, but I think it was legit. In fact, I think that may be why it got yanked. That is, I think people are finding ways to say more than they are allowed to say. Which is charming of them, as it would seem they don't like enforced silences any more than we do. That said, I don't want anyone to get fired.

 

On the other hand, if anyone wants to quit in a really spectacular manner... we're here for you.

 

I copypasted 1/2 about 30 minutes after it was posted on his twitter. He might have deleted it or something oO

[Uluain]

I copypasted 1/2 about 30 minutes after it was posted on his twitter. He might have deleted it or something oO

 

So it would seem. I have naturally contacted him (tweeting in reply to (2 of 2), which is still up) requesting clarification. Like I say - I don't doubt you and Alix genuinely saw it, or that he posted it. But the deletion of the post poses the question - is the Makeb inclusion not official? Is this a retraction? &c.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Uluain

[Palar]

So it would seem. I have naturally contacted him (tweeting in reply to (2 of 2), which is still up) requesting clarification. Like I say - I don't doubt you and Alix genuinely saw it, or that he posted it. But the deletion of the post poses the question - is the Makeb inclusion not official? Is this a retraction? &c.

 

It's official, it just doesn't exist?

[Baptes]

So it would seem. I have naturally contacted him (tweeting in reply to (2 of 2), which is still up) requesting clarification. Like I say - I don't doubt you and Alix genuinely saw it, or that he posted it. But the deletion of the post poses the question - is the Makeb inclusion not official? Is this a retraction? &c.

Again I must say, the lengths they go to avoid officially talking about SGRA is beyond absurd.

 

Actually closer to insanity at this point.

[Uluain]

Well, we have a record that it did exist, but as long as the original tweet is gone there is no way to verify it, leaving BioWare leeway to deny that SGRs were confirmed as coming with expanded story content and Makeb. So, while the O-word was dropped, how "official" is it if the Lead Writer removes the post without contradicting or correcting it? The entire three-ring circus of SGR non-disclosure presents an interesting problem in pragmatics. Almost makes me miss school. Edited September 28, 2012 by Uluain

[chuixupu]

Also they are working on the whole "gamble box" thing too.

New raid armor art going into gambling boxes.

Kinda lame when I see this game intent on copying Perfect World on its most obnoxious aspect of their games.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant by the resources dumped into the cartel shop...some of it will be there for all to purchase, some will be in the boxes. Not sure if Perfect World invented that idea, it's in other games. As long as there are sets of gear that we don't have to buy that look decent I don't care. GW2 has really nice armor models obtainable through drops or purchase. I've been happy just wearing my Cademimu Sharpshooter's jacket since level 29

 

Well that was very OT, wonder if it'll be here tomorrow, hehe.

[losdia]

Well, we have a record that it did exist, but as long as the original tweet is gone there is no way to verify it, leaving BioWare leeway to deny that SGRs were confirmed as coming with expanded story content and Makeb. So, while the O-word was dropped, how "official" is it if the Lead Writer removes the post without contradicting or correcting it? The entire three-ring circus of SGR non-disclosure presents an interesting problem in pragmatics. Almost makes me miss school.

 

I've said this before and I stand by it. I think EA is worried about SGR in TOR becoming an actual media controversy because of the echo chamber effect of the US election. I kind of wonder if Gabe's comments weren't a strategic leak meant to reassure fans while staying mostly under the radar. If that's true than giving attention to it kind of defeats the point of trying to keep SGR on the down low.

 

Mostly I just think that we have pretty solid information SGR is about two months from going live, so there isn't too much point in begging for a more official confirmation. I doubt BW is going to say anything new until at least after it is already on PTS. The broader point of why they feel the need to be so secretive about this is pretty annoying though.

[Tatile]

I've said this before and I stand by it. I think EA is worried about SGR in TOR becoming an actual media controversy because of the echo chamber effect of the US election.

 

How on earth are the two related? I live in England so I simply don't understand how the actions of a private business could reflect onto a politician unless he's worked with them or recently taken bribes from them.

[Kioma]

How on earth are the two related? I live in England so I simply don't understand how the actions of a private business could reflect onto a politician unless he's worked with them or recently taken bribes from them.

 

The point is there are some extremely horrifying anti-gay sentiments being waved about in the US right now. As BW:A is an American business it (in theory) needs to work within a potentially volatile political climate.

 

I really hope you're wrong, Iosdia. I truly do. But given how vehement some extremists are over there, and how readily they'll grab any hint of ammunition and use it to stop the rising tide of Gay that they believe threatens to swallow them whole, I can't say I'd be surprised if you're right.

 

Disappointed, yes. Surprised, no.

[NRVNQSR]

How on earth are the two related? I live in England so I simply don't understand how the actions of a private business could reflect onto a politician unless he's worked with them or recently taken bribes from them.

 

Yeah, the Republican Party in the US has been known in the past to leap rabidly at anything they view as 'promoting immorality' such as admiting that SGR people have a right to exist. With the Presidential Campaign at near-pinicle levels right now any hate-mongering they do over something like swtor could potentially get broadcasted to the vast majority of the country in political attack ads instead of being relegated to the usual crowd that pays attention to them.

[Tatile]

I know we aren't supposed to discuss politics in this thread, but I can say I'm glad I don't live in the US. It sounds like the political system over there is fundamentally batkitten.

[Biancaneri]

US politics needs more Chris Kluwe.

[Ayslinn_Iduviel]

Would be so easy to dissipate all those speculations with just a simple announcement...

[Tatile]

Would be so easy to dissipate all those speculations with just a simple announcement...

 

I've sent Ms. Berryman another request for information to be posted in this thread with reference to Mr. Amatangelo in his recent interview and Mr. Hall's supposed twit.

 

I also requested that the statement not be posted on Twitter, Facebook or any other third party site, but rather be an official announcement in this thread, on this site.

[DarthBeviin]

I for one am beginning to feel frustrated and taken advantage of. I have dutifully paid monthly fees for this game, optimistic in the expectation that Bioware would fulfill their pledge to remove discriminatory coding and allow players to fully participate in the The Old Republic without prejudicial limitations. But I've seen patch after patch deploy with no hint of when SWTOR will finally cease to be an inherently discriminatory game. I'm running out of patience, and I'm starting to feel like Bioware legitimately does not care about inclusiveness. I cannot think of any other reason why this issue would have fallen so far down their priority list. Please Bioware, lets get with it.

[Tatile]

I for one am beginning to feel frustrated and taken advantage of. I have dutifully paid monthly fees for this game, optimistic in the expectation that Bioware would fulfill their pledge to remove discriminatory coding and allow players to fully participate in the The Old Republic without prejudicial limitations. But I've seen patch after patch deploy with no hint of when SWTOR will finally cease to be an inherently discriminatory game. I'm running out of patience, and I'm starting to feel like Bioware legitimately does not care about inclusiveness. I cannot think of any other reason why this issue would have fallen so far down their priority list. Please Bioware, lets get with it.

 

Quoted for emphasis. Bioware has done a very kitten-poor job at demonstrating that it still gives a kitten about its players and not simply on this topic, but pretty much the entire game.

[Uluain]

How on earth are the two related? I live in England so I simply don't understand how the actions of a private business could reflect onto a politician unless he's worked with them or recently taken bribes from them.

 

More the other way around – that people will take out their political biases on companies that feel otherwise. OTOH, I think that BioWare has already seen that back-lash from socially conservative groups and weathered it just fine. Current focus is not on this issue anyway - folks are looking at getting candidates into office, not into video-games. So I really don't think the election is an issue with this.

 

I woke up well-rested today, and less torqued about this issue. Right now, I am tending to think that what we got was meant to reassure, and an end-run around a gag rule that keeps those who really would be happy to talk about this from being able to do so. I also think that because things can always change, this might somehow not end up in with Makeb, which may not end up making it in this year, so a capital-O "official" statement simply isn't possible, even if it were permitted.

 

Gabe did say that it's just a matter of getting it on the schedule – they have something that's being developed and close enough to done that he's not in doubt of it seeing the light of day. We can hope for Makeb. We can hope that is this year.

[Tatile]

I've still pestered Ms. Berryman on the subject, linking and quoting both yourself and Ixum, to demonstrate that we know that Mr. Hood and Mr. Amatangelo have said and the denying it is not currently an option.

 

I hope that they're currently trying to build a statement about the above, I imagine said statement would be built within the confines of their insane gag order, I expect Bioware to sit on their hands and do nothing.

 

Perhaps we should make the rest of the team at Bioware aware that we read and heard what Mr. Hall and Mr. Amatangelo have said?

[Uluain]

Perhaps we should make the rest of the team at Bioware aware that we read and heard what Mr. Hall and Mr. Amatangelo have said?

 

If you feel it is important, certainly. In fact, I had started a thread on General Discussion about the Gabe Amatangelo interview the day before Hall Hood tweeted. And, more interestingly still, although that is in fact a thread discussing SGRs and their future implementation, it wasn't locked or redirected.

 

I know the moderation team was aware of it because they cleaned up some predictable problem posts and left a CommunitySupport post to that effect. As soon as I saw the Hall Hood tweets, I mentioned it there as "issue resolved". Uncertainty over what to make of the withdrawn tweet made me later to concede that the matter seemed to still be in doubt. None of these statements got deleted, or got the thread locked.

 

So the Community Team knows we know what Hall tweeted about Gabe's video interview mention of SGRs. I'd lay money on the Developers knowing it. If this is some fancy dancing to get something, anything out to us from behind the Shroud of the Dark Side, then I do appreciate it and hope it isn't going to cost anyone their careers.

 

In just about every case where we've had an acknowlegement since March, some variation on "...when we are able to tell you more" has been used. I am reading that contextually as indicating more precisely "when we are permitted to tell you." The phrasing as we have received it would in that case be a mild sort of prevarication required to disguise the existence of the non-disclosure policy itself.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Uluain

[Uluain]

Oh, and if you do visit that thread, please help by ignoring those who would derail it, and keep it to the matter of the interview and our questions regarding Makeb.

 

Maybe we should even agree that all things Amatangelo / Hood / Twitter / ??? can be discussed there, freeing this thread up for more general discussion. Make sense?

[Tatile]

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

So, um...

 

Actually I was wondering if anyone knew how much LGB fan-fiction there was on this forum? Perhaps that would also be a good indication of the numbers of people who would like this content in-game, particularly if it's of the head canon variety.

[Uluain]

I think you are our main link to the fic community here. I write, but not SW stuff... and nothing I am going to link to here. Or anywhere else it could possibly be linked to my real name.

 

Also I wonder if that would give us a representative sample. Are people interested in LGB romance more likely than others to turn to writing their own fiction as a way to explore that? Certainly, I put a lot more into my Smuggler's backstory - including a headcanon connection with Corso - than I did into that of any of my characters for whom I have no particular romantic designs.

 

I think a better indicator is simply the number and variety of people who have posted to this thread. Not just the regulars, but the folks who have been reading, or just pop in to say that they look forward to this content. We have a spectrum of ages, orientations, genders and nationalities. Clearly this is content with broad appeal, and that's enough to know.

 

How many do or do not want this in game is really secondary at this point. BioWare and EA have long since decided that it should be there as an option for those who want it. They made an unwise decision in how to implement it, and that's created the context for this thread. We at least be confident that they are working to remedy that by actually creating same-gender content for the game as promised – even if they are not at liberty to discuss it.

[Kioma]

I think you are our main link to the fic community here. I write, but not SW stuff... and nothing I am going to link to here. Or anywhere else it could possibly be linked to my real name.

 

Sounds a lot like some of my fiction. Most of it, in fact.

 

How many do or do not want this in game is really secondary at this point.

 

Exactly. Do or do not want is a debate for people primarily in the second camp, and as the Community Team has directly shown many times over - and the devs too, in their own ways - it's an irrelevant point for the most part. SGRAs are coming and it doesn't matter how many or how few people want it.

 

Let the detractors cry their big wet detractor tears over it. The correct response remains, 'It doesn't matter if you don't want it in, it's coming.'

 

BioWare and EA have long since decided that it should be there as an option for those who want it. They made an unwise decision in how to implement it, and that's created the context for this thread. We at least be confident that they are working to remedy that by actually creating same-gender content for the game as promised – even if they are not at liberty to discuss it.

 

...Which is also an assumption (the concept of them being under a gag order) but given the evidence of action it's the most likely case. I agree it's likely what's happening. It'll be good to have SGRAs in this year.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Kioma