Same gender relationships clarifications?

[stormdrakelord]

I'll tell you who I think would be suitable as SGR option, even if I don't necessary like the possibilities, based on my interpretation of the characters attitude, etc.

 

TROOPER

 

- Aric Jorgan: as said before for other characters, unlucky, he's the only possible option for a male same gender content; Yuun and Tanno are too alien (both phisically and mentally) to be an option IMO

 

- Elara Dorne: hell yeah, the uptight ex-imperial all business and regulations with a crush for her squad commander also female... it's something to think about

 

I do not know about Elara, but doesn't she talk about children, like, very early in the romance?

[Forgon]

I'll tell you who I think would be suitable as SGR option, even if I don't necessary like the possibilities, based on my interpretation of the characters attitude, etc.

 

And of course, watch out for indirect spoilers

 

SITH WARRIOR

 

- Vette: despise what some ppl say about her hostile idea about that (possibly transpired in the 3 way conversation if you romance both her and Jaesa), the Twi'lek culture doesn't have gender distinctions when engaging somebody in marriage; the society on Ryloth is fundamentally matriarchal, so same gender female couples are absolutely commons (as well as male ones).

 

- Jaesa: little transpire of her personal feeling on the LS side of the story about this matter, except on the very last dialoge, and she have no romance options on that; so i guess this will be an obvious companion available for SGR, open to a lot of "content expansion" by story writers.

- Malavai Quinn: too completely-insane in love of the Sith Warrior (despise the "incident"), despise a lot ppl say he's a boots licker (and i don't think so, even if i don't like him in the whole); he's just a fanatical imperial lovers, and also admires and attracted by the Sith power-authority.

 

SITH INQUISITOR:

 

- Ashara: well, she has not a strong personality and she's also the only female on board.. so i guess that she will do, one way or another;

- Talos Drellik: he's a scholar and a curious one, i guess that the he's totally BI just for the "fun" of exploring it XD also, Andronikos feels like an absolutely straight, some conversation you have with him let you understand that he really doesn't like the idea of two males together. Unless you're gonna give Khem Val option... XD

 

IMPERIAL AGENT:

 

- Kaliyo: i know, some ppl really don't like her (and neither do i under some points), but she's absolutely BI; exploring her storyline you'll get without any doubts that she had at least one important engagement with another female; also in the very early stage of the game, when you meet her on Hutta, i can say that she's also flirting with you no matter the gender.

 

- Vector: sure possible, i can only imagine that his new existence status as a joiner (so an hive mind with all that thoughts sharing) it's only fair that he's open to same gender romance

 

BOUNTY HUNTER

 

- Mako: uhm, i'm a bit conflictuated about her; as for Ashara, i don't think she has a strong personality, maybe her young age can ignite the fire for "experimenting" new things

 

- Torian: well, as said before there is at least one precedent in SW universe about two mandalorian males married together...so why not?

 

As a SI main, yeah, Talos could definitely be bi. In fact, there is a conversation you can have with him where he praises you followed by an option to say, "I am sorry Talos, I like you, but not in that way" (or something to that effect XD) and he is left completely shocked on how the SI misinterprets his praise. I agree with you there.

 

Jaesa would definitely "experiment" too as DS and Kaliyo is a given.

 

I play all my characters straight but since I am not a fan of Mako on my Neutral-DS BH, I will take up Torian as an alternative.

[wainot-keel]

I do not know about Elara, but doesn't she talk about children, like, very early in the romance?

 

So what ? If for a female human a Zabrak husband is no issue regarding children, neither is having a wife instead of a husband.

Edited September 30, 2012 by wainot-keel

[Tatile]

So what ? If for a female human a Zabrak husband is no issue regarding children, neither is having a wife instead of a husband.

 

Adoption or possible medical advances (as I've mentioned earlier), also surrogacy and donor parent. The principle is the same as infertile couples in real life, but there may be more options because of contemporary technology in the SWTOR universe.

[Zandilar]

I do not know about Elara, but doesn't she talk about children, like, very early in the romance?

 

And this means what? Homosexual people want to have children too, you know. So do bisexuals. It's one of those human wants that exists regardless of fertility in most folks (not me, I'm 40 years old and very happily childfree).

 

As for who it might "make sense" to be bisexual or otherwise available for SGRA?

 

At this point in time, I'm hoping Kaliyo ends up straight because I don't want her to be the only choice for my main character. Sorry to all those people who want her, she's just not Jan's cup of tea, nor mine. Find her a SWTOR Miranda expy, and I'll be happy to watch her romance from the sidelines (Jack/Miranda is one of my favourite non-Shepard ME pairings). (Yes, I'll concede that Kaliyo does sometimes seem bisexual-ish. But so did Jack (her ME expy), and look at how that turned out.)

 

Most of the other companions don't come off one way or another to me - in large part because we really don't get to explore their characters that deeply (which makes sense given the PC is the star of the show)... Any or all of them could be bisexual as far as I'm concerned.

 

(ETA: I've been mostly lurking. I am not playing SWTOR at the moment, though I have kept my account open (obviously, as I'm posting here). I'm currently immersed back in the world of Azeroth, and might end up completely leaving SWTOR for WoW if this isn't resolved soon.)

Edited September 30, 2012 by Zandilar

[Tatile]

Most of the other companions don't come off one way or another to me - in large part because we really don't get to explore their characters that deeply (which makes sense given the PC is the star of the show)... Any or all of them could be bisexual as far as I'm concerned.

 

For the most part I have always considered sexuality to be incidental to personality - yes you are going to have various things in your life affect your reactions and personality to differing degrees depending on different factors, like race, gender, sexuality, food preferences etc. but that's more due to outside environment (i.e. in a vacuum being a vegetarian is not automatically going to make you defensive about what you eat) - and that in a universe as cosmopolitan as Star Wars, where you are likely to have multiple species which don't necessarily adhere to a binary gender system, I think it's reasonable to say that not as many stereotypes or adverse conditions are going to happen based on sexuality (there are of course going to be exceptions, like if you're Imperial and date an non-Pureblood/non-human you'll probably get labelled as some sort of alien fetishist), so you're therefore less likely to see "types" of people who swing one particular way or another.

 

I do hope I didn't lose my point in all my explanatory waffling.

[Eleuril]

For the most part I have always considered sexuality to be incidental to personality - yes you are going to have various things in your life affect your reactions and personality to differing degrees depending on different factors, like race, gender, sexuality, food preferences etc. but that's more due to outside environment (i.e. in a vacuum being a vegetarian is not automatically going to make you defensive about what you eat) - and that in a universe as cosmopolitan as Star Wars, where you are likely to have multiple species which don't necessarily adhere to a binary gender system, I think it's reasonable to say that not as many stereotypes or adverse conditions are going to happen based on sexuality (there are of course going to be exceptions, like if you're Imperial and date an non-Pureblood/non-human you'll probably get labelled as some sort of alien fetishist), so you're therefore less likely to see "types" of people who swing one particular way or another.

 

I do hope I didn't lose my point in all my explanatory waffling.

 

I agree. The setting has hermaphrodite species, asexual species, species with multiple sexes and so on. Even if there are stereotypes attached to sexuality in the setting, who's to say they in any way resemble those known in our world?

 

I'd like to bring up your remark concerning Imperials and cross-species relationships. I am sure a great many speciesists in the SW universe would prefer to see, for the sake of example, two human males together rather than a human male and alien female.

[stormdrakelord]

Most of the other companions don't come off one way or another to me - in large part because we really don't get to explore their characters that deeply (which makes sense given the PC is the star of the show)... Any or all of them could be bisexual as far as I'm concerned.

 

Elara comes off as more straight to me, but that is probably because I am past-pairing (Relationship happened when they were young) my trooper girl with one of my imperial characters, probably a cyborg imperial Agent.

Edited September 30, 2012 by stormdrakelord

[Uluain]

(ETA: I've been mostly lurking. I am not playing SWTOR at the moment, though I have kept my account open (obviously, as I'm posting here). I'm currently immersed back in the world of Azeroth, and might end up completely leaving SWTOR for WoW if this isn't resolved soon.)

 

Shenanigans aside, it looks as though this is coming with the Makeb content update. If they stick to the projected 6-week schedule, and F2P is the next thing (as can be inferred from the LiveStream event being focussed solely on 1.4 (now live) and F2P), then Makeb may be as soon as late December / early January (depending on how the holidays affect the schedule).

 

If there is something else between F2P and Makeb – say, a special release of the new warzone and HK-51 (which I am guessing are likely to come with F2P as content for free players to pay to opt into) – then Makeb should land in February. That would put it over the "this year" mark, but by an understandable difference, and a Valentine's Day release could be cute. If they keep us waiting until Stonewall (end of June), however, they'll wish they hadn't. Stonewall wasn't a parade .

[Tatile]

I'd like to bring up your remark concerning Imperials and cross-species relationships. I am sure a great many speciesists in the SW universe would prefer to see, for the sake of example, two human males together rather than a human male and alien female.

 

I guess their reasoning would be that it isn't diluting the human genome with cross-species hybrid freaks, therefore keeping it pure (I could go into a long winded hypothesis of having a three parent child, but I won't). It would be homosexuality used for propaganda purposes and I think that most people's ideas of a fascist society have been coloured by ones that have existed in the real world and think that anything that doesn't classically fall into the continuation of genetic purity is therefore also going to be something oppressed.

 

The Imperials Watchers are largely the result of an eugenics project, implying that the Empire knows how to manipulate genetics - likely artificially. I'm personally thinking of something ala A Brave New World here, where children are not of woman born.

 

 

That would put it over the "this year" mark, but by an understandable difference, and a Valentine's Day release could be cute. If they keep us waiting until Stonewall (end of June), however, they'll wish they hadn't. Stonewall wasn't a parade .

 

The "this year" comment is always something I wished they'd address, as it's starting to seem more and more to be a twelve-month period starting at some arbitrary date (likely the Guild Summit as that was when the fateful words were uttered) rather than the Year of Our Lord 2012. Unfortunately that means that they can delay the release of SGRA's until around the anniversary of the Guild Summit and still fall within a "year".

Edited September 30, 2012 by Tatile

[Uluain]

The "this year" comment is always something I wished they'd address, as it's starting to seem more and more to be a twelve-month period starting at some arbitrary date (likely the Guild Summit as that was when the fateful words were uttered) rather than the Year of Our Lord 2012. Unfortunately that means that they can delay the release of SGRA's until around the anniversary of the Guild Summit and still fall within a "year".

 

It has never really bothered me, as I understood it to have the implied development caveat "if things go as planned, we would expect to be able to introduce this this year." I think we see something similar in Gabe A.'s Makeb comment – he is hesitant to commit, because he might be wrong and wouldn't actually be anyone who has a say in when it goes in.

 

Yes, we have seen staff changes at BWA, and changes in the direction of the game. But what we have been told – so far as we have been told anything... you know, let me just start this sentence over. What we have to infer from the statements made in response to concerns raised that this would affect a release date is that the target date has never changed.

 

Lately, things have been happening more or less when expected – forced server transfers, 1.4 etc. We'll see how they keep up. But it sounds as though they do want to get Makeb out this year, as in calendar 2012. If they do, I will be a lot less grouchy than I was last February when they did their whole "Who's your favorite companion for romance" stunt.

[Tatile]

This thread needs more this.

 

I know why they don't want to start talking about dates, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to whinge about it a bit >.>

 

They should start talking more about Makeb soon-ish (i.e. after F2P hits and if the game is still alive), so perhaps that asinine gag-order will be lifted and Bioware's representatives can actually start talking to us about this, rather than just saying they'd like to talk to us about it *hint hint nudge nudge*

[UltraCon]

I am currently holding 5 of my availible characters at lvs 1 to 13 hoping for the same gender romance options to be enabled. I have been continuing to pay in hopes that they would simply leave all romance options and interactions exactly the same but allow them between same gender.

 

In past games like Baldur's gate 2. They only had to change the number in a program called shadow keeper to allow the npc to activate the romance. Aside from an occasional him or her in the voice acting of the female calling your female him if performed flawlessly after that.

 

Why cant they just do that here?

 

They already have admitted a republic trooper companion was triggered into active romance by a conversation option and it cant be stopped.

So why cant all of them be?

[Zandilar]

Elara comes off as more straight to me, but that is probably because I am past-pairing (Relationship happened when they were young) my trooper girl with one of my imperial characters, probably a cyborg imperial Agent.

 

Do you think that might just be because in general it's "heterosexual until proven otherwise" in our society, rather than anything she does that makes her seem straight? The fact that Elara is never given a chance to address even the possibility of a relationship with a female trooper, because it never comes up in the game, means that we're never given any indication of what she thinks about the subject. We do not see any homosexual relationships in the game for her to comment on either. Therefore we actually have no idea, and anything we think about her sexuality is simply an assumption on the basis of our own biases, and not a fact. (Which is why I try to think of the companions in terms of "has a sexuality of some kind (where asexuality is also a type of sexuality), we just don't know it yet".)

Edited September 30, 2012 by Zandilar

[stormdrakelord]

Do you think that might just be because in general it's "heterosexual until proven otherwise" in our society, rather than anything she does that makes her seem straight? The fact that Elara is never given a chance to address even the possibility of a relationship with a female trooper, because it never comes up in the game, means that we're never given any indication of what she thinks about the subject. We do not see any homosexual relationships in the game for her to comment on either. Therefore we actually have no idea, and anything we think about her sexuality is simply an assumption on the basis of our own biases, and not a fact. (Which is why I try to think of the companions in terms of "has a sexuality of some kind (where asexuality is also a type of sexuality), we just don't know it yet".)

 

I just cannot imagine her as bisexual. But like I said, my trooper girl will have a past relationship she may or may not be completely over yet.

[Uluain]

I am currently holding 5 of my availible characters at lvs 1 to 13 hoping for the same gender romance options to be enabled. I have been continuing to pay in hopes that they would simply leave all romance options and interactions exactly the same but allow them between same gender.

 

In past games like Baldur's gate 2. They only had to change the number in a program called shadow keeper to allow the npc to activate the romance. Aside from an occasional him or her in the voice acting of the female calling your female him if performed flawlessly after that.

 

Why cant they just do that here?

 

When they considered that option, the conclusion they came to is that they felt same-gender romance options deserved full story, rather than an editing of generic (read opposite-gender) romance. As then Lead Writer Daniel Erickson put it at the Guild Summit last March,

 

We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff that we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling. When we do this, we want to do it right. We want to do it with the characters that it makes sense, that we always knew we actually wanted to do it for those.

 

What I think we will end up with are simply an entirely separate set of conversations, unlocked by the same criteria as opposite-gender romances are now, with the difference in being offered them being a gender-check in the script. We do not know how this will affect characters who have already progressed companion stories, because we don't know exactly how the conversations work.

 

My suspicion is that it won't matter if you have already done the companion story. When the option is there, it will be just like any companion conversation you have not yet had. The prompt will appear if you meet the criteria to unlock it. But until they can TELL US that, it's all guess work. : |

[natashina]

The phrase, "...with the companions that makes sense," still has me a little wary. On the one hand, I can see it as the companions they had in mind the whole time. Perhaps the ones that have had blatant hinting that all but should have [Flirt] options next to it.

 

I can understand why BW doesn't want to do the everyone is bi route. From what happened with DA2, the "herosexuality" theme can be difficult to pull off and easy to mess up. Yet, it seems strange that personality should dictate sexuality for the writers. Why does it matter if Corso seems bi on the surface(as an example,) or that Kailyo is so obviously bi that she's telegraphed from the other side of the galaxy? Is that BW's examples of "companions that make sense?"

 

This is by no means a bashing on any player, and I don't want to come off as such. I still have fun speculating about who is going to be available, what hints BW may have dropped, ect. This thread is still the most courteous, respectful and self-policed place on the forums. The "breathe, flag, ignore" mentality works wonders here.

 

It just seems like an iffy thing on BW's part to say something like that. I guess it seems like the personality of a companion shouldn't automatically direct what sexuality they are.

 

I have a friend of mine that is gay, but sure doesn't seem nor act like it. He's very into guns(owns a gun shop,) as well as cars. He has jammed up a lot of "gaydars," since he shows no traits on the surface. He has no qualities of flamboyance and doesn't like the more flaming gay men. Unless someone knew he was gay, they really couldn't tell. Using examples like him, I believe it's more of who someone is then their sexuality that will get me interested as a friend or otherwise.

 

I think if BW had just left it with, "We've known who's going to be available," and left out the part about the minions that make sense, it wouldn't fill me with such vague unease. As it stands, I have faith in their writers. The story is one of the major things that brought me back.

1.5 can't hit the PTR fast enough for me.

Edited October 1, 2012 by natashina

[natashina]

My suspicion is that it won't matter if you have already done the companion story. When the option is there, it will be just like any companion conversation you have not yet had. The prompt will appear if you meet the criteria to unlock it. But until they can TELL US that, it's all guess work. : |

 

I really hope so. That reminds me. I forgot to ask(and really beat from playing with the pup all day;gotta love terriers) do they allow divorce in this game?

 

Say, for example, my husband wants to rp his BH with Mako instead of Torian. We agreed that Torian was a real sweetie so it was fun to finish up the romance quest(He is straight, not narrow ) Do you guys think that BW would allow for divorce to happen if it isn't in the game already? That would also make a good rp opportunity, having a PC come out to a companion that they've always cared for, imho.

Edited October 1, 2012 by natashina

[Roodbot]

From what happened with DA2, the "herosexuality" theme can be difficult to pull off and easy to mess up. Yet, it seems strange that personality should dictate sexuality for the writers. Why does it matter if Corso seems bi on the surface(as an example,) or that Kailyo is so obviously bi that she's telegraphed from the other side of the galaxy?

 

Somewhat off topic, but Corso is so smugglersexual. All that hero worship? Yah.

[Kioma]

I can understand why BW doesn't want to do the everyone is bi route. From what happened with DA2, the "herosexuality" theme can be difficult to pull off and easy to mess up.

 

I still don't get why people didn't like the way sexuality was done in DA2. I didn't see any issue with it at all.

[Uluain]

I have no idea if there is an option to break off a companion romance or not. I haven't played any, as I am waiting for content that is more likely to interest me.

 

(As an aside, this is not to say that I don't think I'll eventually play the opposite-sex romances at some point. But until the same-gender option is there, I couldn't enjoy it. I'd spend the entire time cursing under my breath and growling.)

 

"Makes sense" makes me a little uneasy as well, even though the strong feeling I got at the time is that they were most plainly excusing companions like Skadge and Broonmark and Blizz rather than necessarily saying "if you couldn't tell from the get-go that Talos is a little light in his loafers, you're blind."

 

Personally, I do think Talos comes off as kind of queeny. And, as in the case of the firearms merchant described above, that doesn't appeal to me. Andronikos is much more my type, although I understand others feel differently. I will be disappointed if SGRs are played to stereotype, but I also think that BioWare's stated desire to do it right can be read as saying they also wish to be cautious with such things.

 

I hope so, but it would be nice to hear from them. But that is the subject of a coming post.

[Uluain]

For the Development Team and the presumed Faceless Masters of Silence wandering the halls of BioWare Austin in their imagined red robes and inquisitorial hoods with censorial ball-gags, duct-tape and legal injunctions in hand, here is the current list of unresolved questions we'd most like to see addressed:

 

 

• Will same-gender relationships be available with current companions?
  
• If so, with which?
  
• Will same-gender relationships be available for all eight classes?
  
• If not, with which?
  
• Will new relationship options be available to characters who have already fully progressed companion stories?
  
• Is the awaited same-gender content on the schedule to be released with Makeb?
  
• Are we still on track to see that content this year?
  
• Will same-gender romance require an in-game credit or cartel coin (or any other similar) expense to unlock?
  

 

Some of these questions date back to beta testing. Others are more recent, arising from changes at BioWare Austin and in the direction of the game. Clarification of any would be appreciated. Thanks.

[natashina]

I still don't get why people didn't like the way sexuality was done in DA2. I didn't see any issue with it at all.

 

I've never played the game, so I'm not trying to judge. I'll admit of going more by hersay. I really need to just sit down and play the game, rather than going by disgruntled player feedback. I still think that "herosexuality" is a pretty good idea. It would probably open up a lot of companions and probably add to replay value. Given the overall negative feedback, I can see why they are going a different route.

[Henu]

i dont see why this is an issue at all, i mean its just a game.

 

On another note i dont see bioware putting this into the game at all just coz you look at the history of BW and swtor and making changes or fixes isnt there strong suit.

[Uluain]

i dont see why this is an issue at all, i mean its just a game.

 

On another note i dont see bioware putting this into the game at all just coz you look at the history of BW and swtor and making changes or fixes isnt there strong suit.

 

It's an EA/BioWare game and both companies have made inclusiveness standard practice for game content. What does it take away from your game experience for players to have more options?

 

This isn't a change or a fix. It is completing content planned for inclusion since pre-launch. This isn't a matter of changing course. It is a continuation of previously determined policy.

 

If it is not an issue to you, why are you posting here?