Prior to TORs release, did you ever think SWG would outlast it?

[Caspian_Rho]

 

As for population, TOR is hurting but its still doing far better then SWG ever did!

 

It's hard getting any numbers but SWG in it's day was hitting a reported almost 2 million subs until the mass exodus after CU and NGE. And looking at 'possible' numbers on TOR currently. I don't think the populations are that far removed.

In my opinion I perceive to possibly around the 600k/700k subs for TOR - completly unsubstaniated with no figures. But on the other hand, the spin and wool tactics that EA are using would seem to suggest that 1.3 mil subs is a fantasy woven for share holders - again completly unsubstaniated... can you prove either statement wrong with hard facts??

[JeramieCrowe]

Simple question.

 

Prior to TORs release, did you ever think SWG would outlast it?

 

Because, from where most realists are sitting, TORs not going to last as long as SWG did.

 

It's a pretty mind-blowing concept, frankly. Especially considering how horrible most people think SWG was.

 

*sniffs the bait, see the shiny hook and walks away*

 

[Mallorik]

Rift also doesn't have more complicated systems like legacy stuff. They have to figure out how all that stuff will work on a transfer especially with conflicting character names off the toons transferring to servers with another toon with the exact same name.

Just a personal opinion but Rift is a really bad game. I tried it and it couldn't hold my attention for even an hour. Rehashed fantasy style game that has been done over and over and over.

 

This game will succeed and I think you all are going to see some good stuff coming out of E3 for the future of the SW:TOR in the upcoming year and beyond.

 

Actualy Rift does have something like legacy, only its actualy useful. and they worked out the problem of people with same names and server tranfers.

 

I think this game can succeed but i will be happily shocked to see anything relevant to saving this game come out of E3 (anything short of 3d space and "super servers" will be meaningless). And anything from E3 it will probably be too late to pull this game out of the 200k sub range before EA cuts its loses and puts in on life support anyway.

 

If anything big comes out of E3 it will prbably be the hutt faction expansion and that will be too little too late if they dont fix all the things they refused to add to the game before it released.

 

P.S- Swtor is a fantasy game too.

[Dokar]

It's hard getting any numbers but SWG in it's day was hitting a reported almost 2 million subs until the mass exodus after CU and NGE. And looking at 'possible' numbers on TOR currently. I don't think the populations are that far removed.

In my opinion I perceive to possibly around the 600k/700k subs for TOR - completly unsubstaniated with no figures. But on the other hand, the spin and wool tactics that EA are using would seem to suggest that 1.3 mil subs is a fantasy woven for share holders - again completly unsubstaniated... can you prove either statement wrong with hard facts??

 

SWG peaked at 350k subs.

[Kaisernick]

considering that this forums look allmost identical to the old SWG ones prior to both ce and NGE then TOR will last just as long.

 

and a few years after NGE went up even i a hard cor fan of the pre cu had to admit it wasnt terrable once they fixed the bugs.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Kaisernick

[Moomintrollop]

..and everyone else who is smart enough not to go on the forums at all.

 

..or indeed the game.

[rpdowning]

TOR will still be around in 7 years, games rarely close down now.

 

As for population, TOR is hurting but its still doing far better then SWG ever did!

 

As for cancellation rates, Id say both games pretty even at this stage

 

SWG did inot die from the NGE

 

SWG was dieing from day 1 of release and bleeding heavy like TOR.

 

Not sure what this has to do with anything though.

 

TOR is repairable with some obvious minor fixes

SWG had to recreate itself 3-4 times over?

 

Not the same at all.

 

I hope SWTOR is around in 7 years. I'm not very experenced in mmo's. I think normally I would have no doubt that a game with this kind of backing will be around for a real long time. But it seems from a real mmo newbie like myself perspective, that may not be the case.

 

After checkin out threads about mmo's on forums such as massively, games like Dark Age of Camelot, War hammer online and star Trek didn't do as well as a lot of people hoped and seemed to flicker out pretty quick. I have never played any of those games so its just what I picked up from reading forums.

 

Maybe thats just the way it is. When a game is about to launch people go on and on about it thinking its going to be THE game to end all games. Recently people were saying D3 was just going to be the bee's knees. I check out the review in game trailers and you can read the dissapointment people are writing about it in the comment section despite fairly decent reviews. Then people comeback on and are talking about TSW or GW2. The cycle will continue.

 

SWG was my first mmo experence and this game is my second. I'm not a star wars fan boy but enjoy the setting. As for SWG bleeding subs, I read the devs were freaking out because they were losing 10k subs a month. I don't know the figures but it appears from the forum posts that it is a bit more drastic in SWTOR case.

 

There are some really interesting articles on the world wide web breaking down different reasons SWG didn't do as well as wow. I think that game could have held a lot more players if they would have left the class system alone instead of trying to cater to the kids who wanted to swing a lightsaber for a month or two before moving on to the next new thing.

 

Basically I don't think SWG was dying, just finding its gaming crowd which kept changing as the game went through drastic change after change. This game is fun, I don't think my expectations were to high. I was a little dissapointed in the begining, then loved it, then started to get dissapointed again as the game started feeling repetitive. Wanting something to do to break up the constant slaughter I was unleashing on nearly everything on the planet.

 

I want a little from colum A and sprinkle some stuff from colum B. How about a splash of comum C and D while your at it. why does it have to be this or that? Ha Ha I might not have made much sense. I'm sure someone is thinking the way I am.

[Darth_Acherus]

You're right. It didn't have the numbers, but it had the community. If TOR ever went the way of SWG and ended up shut down (which to be honest I don't see happening just because of the monopoly that is EA) do you really think anyone would reverse engineer the code to make an emulator to bring it back for people who loved it to play?

 

Very much doubt it would happen.

 

Numbers don't make a good game, gameplay, replay-ability and longativity make a good game. Just because WoW has 10 million subs doesn't mean it's the greatest game of all time. It just means it's the easiest to get into.

 

I've played on the SWGemu, its quite dull.

 

Also the combat system in that game is atrocious!!! Like as bad as it can get.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Darth_Acherus

[Master-Nala]

It's hard getting any numbers but SWG in it's day was hitting a reported almost 2 million subs until the mass exodus after CU and NGE. And looking at 'possible' numbers on TOR currently. I don't think the populations are that far removed.

In my opinion I perceive to possibly around the 600k/700k subs for TOR - completly unsubstaniated with no figures. But on the other hand, the spin and wool tactics that EA are using would seem to suggest that 1.3 mil subs is a fantasy woven for share holders - again completly unsubstaniated... can you prove either statement wrong with hard facts??

 

This is a fantasy, TOR sold more games on its first day that SWG did in two years.

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-galaxies-sales-top-a-million-units

 

SWG was an abysmal failure and still managed to survive 8 years. I have no doubt that haters notwithstanding, this game has a long life ahead of it.

[Sniperrecon]

What defines a good game is a matter of opinion. Aside from a few issues I think TOR is a good game while I compare SWG to vomit. In my opinion SWG was trash, to someone else it was good. Oh and SWG community wasn't any different from other mmo's aside from the fact that it was small and no one played the damn game. Remove the rose colored glasses already.

Maybe your the one with rose colored glasses. Just saying.

 

If TOR was to close down (and TBH if we were to call this a tank and compare how its tanking to how SWG tanked , TOR is tanking faster than SWG) do you think in a few years people will still be talking about TOR like they do SWG? No , and thats got to say something about SWG no matter what you think about it. SWG has been shut down since Dec. yet there are 1/4 the amount of subs lined up to try the SWG-Em than there are for TOR (and more in the wings) That says alot about a game thats supposed to have been trash and is dead and burried (or is it?)

 

Me , I like TOR but not nearly as much as i did SWG , even in its end days. I really do hope they get on the ball and fix things and TOR lasts as long or longer than SWG. I actually hope we can get the community that we had in SWG here. Thats what makes a game.

 

Sure we got a community here , every game does. But in SWG if a player died IRL they actually stoped everything they were doing (pvp , guild wars and flame wars on the forums) and players that were enemies went to work making a memorial to a fallen player. Never seen that in another game. Pvp'ers and roleplayers alike would get together for special events and just have fun (and with worlds that supported day and night cycles and no faction boundries) events were plentifull. Stormtrooper parades on Lifeday (player made) Dance troupes that held contests and gave away prizes , pvp events help and made by players (10 man fights , battle royale's , last man standings and even racing events with pvp mixed in) scavanger hunts , space events and so on...ALL player made.

 

What does this community have really? What can they do? And its not really their fault.

[SuperBoogly]

Simple question.

 

Prior to TORs release, did you ever think SWG would outlast it?

 

Because, from where most realists are sitting, TORs not going to last as long as SWG did.

 

It's a pretty mind-blowing concept, frankly. Especially considering how horrible most people think SWG was.

 

I was hoping it would. But I doubt it does. I wonder if the developers truly care? It honestly feels like they don't.

 

I'd trade my errand boy I errrr mean Jedi Shadow for my SWG Pre-9 Jedi Guardian any day. At least I felt like a Jedi back in SWG...

[JerokTalram]

Nope and the simple reason why is that SoE licience expires in 2012 and they had no plans to renew it.

 

I'm pretty sure SOE wasn't given an option to renew the license. At least not a reasonable one.

[captncrunch]

Maybe your the one with rose colored glasses. Just saying.

 

If TOR was to close down (and TBH if we were to call this a tank and compare how its tanking to how SWG tanked , TOR is tanking faster than SWG) do you think in a few years people will still be talking about TOR like they do SWG? No , and thats got to say something about SWG no matter what you think about it. SWG has been shut down since Dec. yet there are 1/4 the amount of subs lined up to try the SWG-Em than there are for TOR (and more in the wings) That says alot about a game thats supposed to have been trash and is dead and burried (or is it?)

 

Me , I like TOR but not nearly as much as i did SWG , even in its end days. I really do hope they get on the ball and fix things and TOR lasts as long or longer than SWG. I actually hope we can get the community that we had in SWG here. Thats what makes a game.

 

Sure we got a community here , every game does. But in SWG if a player died IRL they actually stoped everything they were doing (pvp , guild wars and flame wars on the forums) and players that were enemies went to work making a memorial to a fallen player. Never seen that in another game. Pvp'ers and roleplayers alike would get together for special events and just have fun (and with worlds that supported day and night cycles and no faction boundries) events were plentifull. Stormtrooper parades on Lifeday (player made) Dance troupes that held contests and gave away prizes , pvp events help and made by players (10 man fights , battle royale's , last man standings and even racing events with pvp mixed in) scavanger hunts , space events and so on...ALL player made.

 

What does this community have really? What can they do? And its not really their fault.

 

This ---->

[Razdek]

Simple question.

 

Prior to TORs release, did you ever think SWG would outlast it?

 

Because, from where most realists are sitting, TORs not going to last as long as SWG did.

 

It's a pretty mind-blowing concept, frankly. Especially considering how horrible most people think SWG was.

 

This is based on the fact that 1) swtor is failing. Which it isnt. 2) TOR is not going to be around for a long period of time. Which you have no idea whether it will or not. I am going for yes it will be as subscriptions are solid atm and lots of improvements are coming. Not to mention it takes time for a game to gain momentum. And finally 3) that SWG was a great game better then SWTOR. Which it clearly wasnt. Considering a very low population and the servers are closed. I played swg and i have to say (from my experience and i speak for myself only) that game was terrible and i love star wars games to the hilt. The only thing they got right was space and that became boring fast as no one else was in space.

[Sniperrecon]

Hahahaaha!!!!!1111111

 

really? BSG? really?! sure it probably has more than 9 million now. i'm probably part of that number as well because i registered. who even knows how far back i registered and played it for less than a hour never touched it again.

 

just so you know maple story has almost double the subs that WOW has i think they're sitting at some 20 million perhaps more.

 

We should all go play Maple Story AMIRIGHT?!

 

I still play BSG from time to time and its up to 15mil active users (thats what they say , and its supposed to be counting the log in times , not register now) and even have my creds set up for the new carrier ship

[TalkingDinosaur]

If it's SWG code before SOE totally ruined it, I'm first in line

 

Gosh... imagine that... a sandbox game for people who can think. Back on the market.

Account cancelled after 2 months eh? And we're about 6 months into release so I'm assuming you're the person who bought the 100 year subscription like everyone else yes?

 

Your idea of having a game that had people think died when WoW released. It's obvious that games make more money when they're unrealistically simple. *cough* Call of Duty *cough* World of Warcraft *cough*

 

Developers may want to make a great game, but publishers such as EA and Activision want money and can easily force developers to dumb down the game with the threat of cutting off their money.

[WillyWampa]

My opinion...

 

TOR as a pure sandbox game by it's design will not have the potential to retain subs as a sandbox game can.

 

Let me explain.A 100% themepark game has very linear content.This content is consumed by the subscribers much much faster than it can be produced.The design of a themepark game has the subscribers reusing this content over and over grinding for gear so they can then grind that same content on a harder setting for more gear.

 

Essentially themeparks require timesinks and repeating content to retain subs...however how long can anyone be expected to repeat content and retain intrest?

 

Sandbox MMOs specificly SWG had numerous systems in the game that allowed the players to create content themselves.Since players could create content the game was not 100% reliant on developers to supply something to do.

 

SWG at the time of it's end had themepark style linear questing and raid content surrounded by a sandbox.If players were tired of the themepark style content and didn't feel like running a heroic instance for the hundreth time they could choose one of the other dynamic sytems as a change of pace.SWG allways had something else to do other than what you were currently sick of doing.

 

A player in SWG could experience their enviorment in a much deeper way than a player in ToR can.This may seem like a tiny diferance however the more invested a player becomes in their game enviorment the more likely they will stay logged in.

[kilosoldier]

Do SWG vets understand that that game was an abstract failure? That is was losing subscribers in alarming numbers before CU? That the whole reason for the CU and NGE was to try and stop the bleeding?

 

SWG was a horrible game. That is a fact backed by hard numbers.

[TalkingDinosaur]

oh, Well why are the player majority leaving this game?

For the following reasons:

-It's not SWG 2 when it was clearly advertised that it wasn't going to be.

-TOR wasn't the WoW killer like people thought Guild Wars 2 and TERA would be.

-Bioware doesn't fix that one bug problem that YOU feel is priority.

-Can't comprehend that things in real life take time to do and can't be released in a matter of days.

-Upset because TOR doesn't have 9001% more content on launch than WoW has 7 years in.

 

But SWG fanbois are a minority as SWG in its life time had an average of 200k subscribers.

[rpdowning]

Do SWG vets understand that that game was an abstract failure? That is was losing subscribers in alarming numbers before CU? That the whole reason for the CU and NGE was to try and stop the bleeding?

 

SWG was a horrible game. That is a fact backed by hard numbers.

 

SWG was a horrible game to you. I don't think it is possible to make a game to please everyone and if you try, you will probably please no one. You say SWG was losing subscribers in alarming numbers before CU. Is this game losing subscribers in alarming numbers? Like I said before I think SWG was bleeding 10k a month. Only Sony really knows.

[JeramieCrowe]

Do SWG vets understand that that game was an abstract failure? That is was losing subscribers in alarming numbers before CU? That the whole reason for the CU and NGE was to try and stop the bleeding?

 

SWG was a horrible game. That is a fact backed by hard numbers.

 

Actually, the whole reason for the NGE was to try to capitalize on WoW's idea of a themepark MMO. Subs had evened out at about 300k, and SOE got greedy. It was NOT bleeding subs prior to the NGE as this chart shows clearly. NGE hits, subs start dropping.

Edited June 3, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Sniperrecon]

It's hard getting any numbers but SWG in it's day was hitting a reported almost 2 million subs until the mass exodus after CU and NGE. And looking at 'possible' numbers on TOR currently. I don't think the populations are that far removed.

In my opinion I perceive to possibly around the 600k/700k subs for TOR - completly unsubstaniated with no figures. But on the other hand, the spin and wool tactics that EA are using would seem to suggest that 1.3 mil subs is a fantasy woven for share holders - again completly unsubstaniated... can you prove either statement wrong with hard facts??

 

If you compare the cost of computers back then to now , you'll also see that in comparasion the number of players for SWG was very high. You had to buy a computer that cost about $2k to play , where for TOR you just need a $400 comp.

 

MMO's were new to the market overall and computers were pricey and on top of that , internet availibity wasn't nationwide as it is now. With all the specs , cost of comps , internet availibility and current state of MMO's , if SWG was released today , it would surpass ALL games out there (maybe not at launch , but within a few months of launch and after some PR and advertisment , not to mention , if you READ anything about gaming , EVERYONE wants or comments on how they would like a sandbox like SWG was but w/o all the bugs)

[TalkingDinosaur]

Actually, the whole reason for the NGE was to try to capitalize on WoW's idea of a themepark MMO. Subs had evened out at about 300k, and SOE got greedy. It was NOT bleeding subs prior to the NGE as this chart shows clearly. NGE hits, subs start dropping.

It was quite hilarious to see Second Life top every MMO listed on the chart.

 

 

I truly love how during SWG's final days not even 1000 people stuck around to see it end.

 

A good example of the success of games that make you think is EVE online. Currently the game is based on a virtual economy and choices may have severe consequences. Currently it is sitting around 350k subs a little over the number of subs SWG had at its peak which is 300k.

 

WoW is so easy a caveman can do it and is sitting at 10 million subscribers.

 

Which format do you think a publisher will want to do?

Edited June 3, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[Caspian_Rho]

If you compare the cost of computers back then to now , you'll also see that in comparasion the number of players for SWG was very high. You had to buy a computer that cost about $2k to play , where for TOR you just need a $400 comp.

 

MMO's were new to the market overall and computers were pricey and on top of that , internet availibity wasn't nationwide as it is now. With all the specs , cost of comps , internet availibility and current state of MMO's , if SWG was released today , it would surpass ALL games out there (maybe not at launch , but within a few months of launch and after some PR and advertisment , not to mention , if you READ anything about gaming , EVERYONE wants or comments on how they would like a sandbox like SWG was but w/o all the bugs)

 

SOE claimed in 2005 that they sold over 1 mil boxes of SWG. And granted current day PC saturation compared to then, there's definitely an argument. SWG has what most other MMOs haven't and that's endurance. I happily subbed three accounts on SWG, and it was never cause there was a lack of anything to do, but professions to bolster my guild and the community. Here people roll alts to keep the cob-webs off!!

 

Here's a very good read actually from a 'former' SWG dev: http://keeyai.com/2008/06/16/rant-of-a-swg-dev/

Edited June 3, 2012 by Caspian_Rho

[Tricky-Ha]

Where'd my post go comparing SWG to TOR? W T H forum mods? What's up with the sneaky post deletion? Edited June 3, 2012 by Tricky-Ha