I’ve finally figured out what frustrates me about SWTOR. (It isn't that story driven)

[Stenrik]

I can see where you're coming from, but I find myself using my imagination to fill whatever gaps the game leaves. To imagine other possibilities not given to me, to think about what my character does in the gap time when I'm not logged on.

 

i suppose that being imaginative makes me easy to please. Oh well, guess that means I'll just have more fun with whatever I play.

 

(It would be nice to customize our backstories a bit though, sort of like how GW2 does character customization where you can choose info about your character's personality and history before you even enter the game.)

Edited May 31, 2012 by Stenrik

[ryathal]

This is a spot on description of swtor, except the revan stuff, but I didn't play either kotor so I only have to vgo on what was presented in game . The quality of their story for classes or planets makes me wonder how much they actually looked in depth at the stories other games released. Assuming they started development in 07, they really only had vanilla wow to compare to with story, and that wasn't a lot, but there were a few good gems. Since then though wow has released 3 xpacs which all really beefed up the story elements in the new content, and rift released with a strong, but uninteresting story. I don't think they ever went and checked out what their competition had done story wise from when they started creating their stories and so we got stuck with stories stuck in an 04 mindset while thegenre moved on and evolved without them.

[EnzoForMe]

Having beaten Kotor between 30-40 times (I stopped counting after 25 or so), I believe I am an authority on the story that takes place in that game. I unlocked every piece of dialogue, every cool item, every quest, etc. I logged twelve completions of Kotor 2, which was also a fantastic game but not quite as polished and epic.

 

On your point 2, I agree thoroughly. To me, Revan was a Machiavellian master politician/general and a charismatic leader. As Canderous says in Kotor 1, "It was not your fleet, nor your men, nor you valiant fight for freedom...it was the actions of one person, Revan, who won the (Mandalorian) War".

 

In SWTOR, Revan is portrayed as a pawn, a tool who seems to have lost all semblance of cleverness and subtlety. The FP (Foundry, was it? I can't remember) that features him actually angered me. This was not the Revan I knew.

Edited May 31, 2012 by EnzoForMe

[dalekjs]

I have a problem with your #1. You say that the "story" should revolve around the larger conflict and then you give the example of Tatooine, which is, in my opinion, the planet story with the least tie and impact on the larger conflict/story.

 

 

 

Note: These are all from Empire perspective.

 

Balmorra - Very strong - you are fighting a resistance movement seeking to undermine Imperial rule of the planet. These resistance fighters are being "funded" in secret by the Republic and the planet story revolves around defeating the resistance and uncovering the Republic ties. This story impacts the overall conflict directly.

 

Nar Shadaa - weaker here, but still trying to gain/maintain Hutt influence to aid the larger conflict though the protagonists here are mostly non-affiliated.

 

Tatooine - very weak here - you play the errand boy/girl to a Darth on a personal quest for more power. Granted, the first time through I found the story engaging, not to say it isn't, but the tie to the larger conflict/story is very weak here. Though we are introduced to the Rakata for the first time here and this could be seen as foreshadowing of larger enemies of both factions for the future.

 

Alderaan - Very strong - probably the planet with most direct tie to the conflict at large. This is a direct and straight-up struggle between the Republic and Empire proxies to control the planet.

 

Taris - somewhat weak here. This story is mostly about harassing the Republic and keeping them from using the rebuilding of Taris as a rallying cry for their cause/side. Not that direct a tie, but impacts the overall conflict from a morale perspective.

 

Quesh - a little weak here in that the goal is control of adrenal production and you are fighting by proxy (against the Hutt cartels). Still though, controlling this supply of materiel has a direct impact on the potential success of your side in the larger conflict (though of course there is no direct evidence of that).

 

Hoth - Again somewhat weak - a vague description of resources, etc. to be gained from the Starship Graveyard, the fights are mostly against non-affiliated enemies (pirates, Hailstorm Brotherhood). Very similar in basic plot to Quesh though tie to larger conflict is weaker.

 

Belsavis - fairly strong - revolves around freeing the Dread Lords. Regaining these powerful Sith Lords is expected to have a long-ranging gains for the Empire as they are re-introduced into the fold to undermine and demoralize Republic forces all over the galaxy. Once again a passing encounter with the Rakata.

 

Voss - Neutral - there's no good justification for why both sides want this planet other than that there is a history of both Jedi and Sith presence/influence. Conflict is direct - Republic vs. Empire in "official" diplomatic negotiations while simultaneously running "covert" actions against/to undermine the other side.

 

Corellia - Very strong - once again this a direct Republic vs. Empire fight to control one of the oldest member planets of the Republic and the center of starship production in the galaxy. This could have direct and far-reaching implications for the side that controls the planet in the larger conflict.

 

Ilum - strong - control of lightsaber crystal mining/production - similar to Corellia.

 

 

 

 

Also the side quests on the planet in most cases do not tie directly into the overarching story but they at least make a passing attempt at being relevant to the furtherance of your side's goals on that planet.

 

 

 

For example, as Empire there is a side quest on Taris that has you killing 10 militia members and their commander to draw out some Jedi to kill. Standard type of MMO quest except that the "story" around the quest does tie to the larger conflict of the planet through an attempt to stamp-out or at least demoralize the local militia and cut their ties to the Jedi.

 

Additionally, I would say that I don't think it's necessary for every quest to tie back directly to the larger conflict or even the planet storyline. For example, as Republic on Taris there is a quest line involving looking for a missing researcher who was investigating the Rakghouls. Once you find him, you have a nice series of quests that explore the origins of the Rakghouls - I found this quest line very interesting and engaging - not only do we get the background, but we also have betrayal and greed in the story. It provided background material even though it has no direct impact on the planet story or the larger conflict story.

 

 

 

I won't comment on the Revan thing since I didn't play KoToR or KoToR 2.

 

You also mention that Flashpoints seem to be the only furtherance of the overarching story.

 

 

 

If you have run the operations currently in the game, these also serve some of the same function but often tie back to earlier planetary quests/questlines. The Eternity Vault references back to Belsavis and the Rakata and Explosive Conflict sees the return of the Dread Lords from Belsavis. Karagga's Palace doesn't directly reference back but hints at and continues the general theme of your dealings with the Hutt Cartels from Nar Shadaa and Quesh (and potentially Hutta if you are an agent/bounty hunter).

 

Additionally, while all of the FPs don't tie directly, there is at least a progression of story through both the FPs and endgame planet material in the form of Malgus's storyline, which is much more prevalent on the empire side. Having him direct you on missions for BP/Foundry and then dealing with him on Ilum where he attempts to overthrow the Empire and set himself up as a new emperor which leads into the Battle of Ilum and False Emperor FPs.

 

 

 

While I will agree that the agent storyline is exceptional (my main is a Sniper) and the others I have experienced to 50 (JK, SW and BH) are weaker by comparison, I don't necessarily have a problem with the ultimate bada** nature of the stories. You should feel heroic as your character.

 

I think I didn't explain it too well in my original post then, haha.

 

I mentioned Tatooine in specific because it was the most memorable and well written of the bunch. While there are plenty of others that tie in better, then just aren't as well written. A lot of them are awful even.

 

I also think that the planet stories themselves should have been written to be more alligned with the overall story of the world. I don't see why all the cool stuff with Malgus couldn't have been part of the main story of the world that continues from planet to planet.

 

As for the grind quests, while yes they do try to make it closer to the plot, the problem is that every game does this. Swtor only does this with added VO. I think the quests should have been more unique. Claiming to be story driven then giving us WoW quests with "republic soldier" instead of "alliance members" is pretty bad.

 

I don't think that *all* quests should be part of the main quest, but most of them. There should definitely be side quests, but again, make them interesting. Don't give out WoW with voice over quests. The problem is that these types of quests are the vast majority, which is a shame.

 

I agree with your Taris quest example, but again the problem is that these are too few and far inbetween. These should be the most types seen, not the exception.

 

As for the flashpoints/operations. Yes there are story elements in them, but they aren't story driven. I picked the BT/E because they really felt like the direction BW should go with them. They were engaging, fun, and had decisions that mattered. They were told well. All the other flashpoints and operations aren't told well. Yes there is progression, but it all takes a backseat. There isn't anything intersesting about them in terms of story. The only thing you get is Malgus telling you you should do this because he's the boss. The problem isn't that the story suddenly became non-existent, it's that it took a backseat in an mmo that's main selling point is its focus on story.

 

As for your last point, I don't think becoming a bad*** is a bad thing, not at all. The problem is that the class stories are basically a single player campaign, and are the focus of the game, instead of all the cool stuff that's happening. It feels very shallow and unrelated to anything that's going on. You becoming a bad*** has no implication on anything, which is why I think the class story should take a backseat to the larger plot at hand, and be a sort of coming of age quest.

[Socialist]

What destroys this game is that it is a MMO.

 

Honestly, it would have been a legendary game if it was single player with instanced online multiplayer (Warzones, OPs and Flashpoints).

 

and I am talking OoT legendary, real *********** legen -wait for it- dary

Edited May 31, 2012 by Socialist

[trussasp]

Hi Xandax:

 

My point (that you mentioned) is that SWTOR is much much quicker to level to max. level at launch than was WoW.

 

This was a mistake, in my opinion, given the lack of endgame content.

[dalekjs]

This is a spot on description of swtor, except the revan stuff, but I didn't play either kotor so I only have to vgo on what was presented in game . The quality of their story for classes or planets makes me wonder how much they actually looked in depth at the stories other games released. Assuming they started development in 07, they really only had vanilla wow to compare to with story, and that wasn't a lot, but there were a few good gems. Since then though wow has released 3 xpacs which all really beefed up the story elements in the new content, and rift released with a strong, but uninteresting story. I don't think they ever went and checked out what their competition had done story wise from when they started creating their stories and so we got stuck with stories stuck in an 04 mindset while thegenre moved on and evolved without them.

 

Agreed! Just because other games lacked story at the time, doesn't give them an excuse to be sloppy with it.

 

On another note, I'd recommend playing the KOTOR games. They're still immenseley fun, even though they've probably been spoiled to you by now!

 

Having beaten Kotor between 30-40 times (I stopped counting after 25 or so), I believe I am an authority on the story that takes place in that game. I unlocked every piece of dialogue, every cool item, every quest, etc. I logged twelve completions of Kotor 2, which was also a fantastic game but not quite as polished and epic.

 

On your point 2, I agree thoroughly. To me, Revan was a Machiavellian master politician/general and a charismatic leader. As Canderous says in Kotor 1, "It was not your fleet, nor your men, nor you valiant fight for freedom...it was the actions of one person, Revan, who won the (Mandalorian) War".

 

In SWTOR, Revan is portrayed as a pawn, a tool who seems to have lost all semblance of cleverness and subtlety. The FP (Foundry, was it? I can't remember) that features him actually angered me. This was not the Revan I knew.

 

Thank you for agreeing with me! I love than Canderous quote. It always moved me, even to this day. I remember being excited on my first playthrough to play the "Revan flashpoint" as I called it, and I was so utterly disappointed and hurt. I couldn't play for days after that.

[dalekjs]

What destroys this game is that it is a MMO.

 

Honestly, it would have been a legendary game if it was single player with instanced online multiplayer (Warzones, OPs and Flashpoints).

 

and I am talking OoT legendary, real *********** legen -wait for it- dary

 

I can agree with this, if they cleaned up most of the single player stories with the added resources. Eight single player stories ranging from good to brilliant (I really love whoever wrote the agent story!) , with added mulitiplayer ala Diablo 3 would have made a fantastic game.

[trussasp]

Hi Dalekjs:

 

Actually, yes, even though I've only played KOTOR, I would recommend to anyone here to try KOTOR out.

 

KOTOR is actually better than is SWTOR, in my opinion.

 

KOTOR's not an MMO, howevere, but in my opinion, this game is not really either.

[Socialist]

I can agree with this, if they cleaned up most of the single player stories with the added resources. Eight single player stories ranging from good to brilliant (I really love whoever wrote the agent story!) , with added mulitiplayer ala Diablo 3 would have made a fantastic game.

 

Inquisitor story would also be quite good in a parallel universe where this game is single player.

 

This way, the world could be altered and the storyline could get more in depth with Imperial politics and perhaps even revolution (be the Imperial version of Trotsky?).

 

 

Instead they made this game extremely simpleton and MMO. still play it though for it is the closest to KOTOR 3 I'll ever have, but I look at it thinking of its wasted potential.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Socialist

[Izorii]

I agree with a lot of the OP views (in part 1 I never liked Revan so dont care if he ended up a nurf header on naboo). They could have gone a completly different way made me care about my character and who he meet but seems everyone who is going to die dies, thoese that wont wont, and my choices dont matter much. The worst part is the class story does not tie into the world stories at all and once its over might as well not have happened. I think only once was my Dark council member refered to by his title and I didn't get to refus Malgus and take control of Ilum even though I out ranked everyone on the planet. Why make someone a dark council member if it means nothing, why kill an NPC if we have no reason to care if he lives or dies.

[trussasp]

Hi Izorii:

 

I think the meat of what you are saying pretty clearly delineates the difference between a single-player story-driven game and an MMO.

 

They tried to combine both elements, and did not do a great job at either one.

 

TLDR... I'm on the Dark Council too. Why couldn't I be the head of whatever? (because it's supposed to be an MMO)

[dalekjs]

Inquisitor story would also be quite good in a parallel universe where this game is single player.

 

This way, the world could be altered and the storyline could get more in depth with Imperial politics and perhaps even revolution (be the Imperial version of Trotsky?).

 

 

Instead they made this game extremely simpleton and MMO. still play it though for it is the closest to KOTOR 3 I'll ever have, but I look at it thinking of its wasted potential.

 

Agreed! Oh wow, just thinking of all the possibilities makes me a bit sad haha.

 

Hi Izorii:

 

I think the meat of what you are saying pretty clearly delineates the difference between a single-player story-driven game and an MMO.

 

They tried to combine both elements, and did not do a great job at either one.

 

TLDR... I'm on the Dark Council too. Why couldn't I be the head of whatever? (because it's supposed to be an MMO)

 

You've said it best I think. It isn't a good mmo, and the single player aspects aren't good either.

[Socialist]

You've said it best I think. It isn't a good mmo, and the single player aspects aren't good either.

 

That is the key.

 

They sacrificed single player for MMO aspects. Ended up with average both.

 

It is analogue to when you decide to trick your Honda's engine. You end up with your originally ultra reliable Honda being not so reliable anymore nor the supercar you aimed at.

[GnatB]

OP: Too big a fan of Revan.

 

I only played KOTOR once through. (same with II) Neither one of which was particularly rememberable.

 

I've only finished the JK class quest. And you know what? I liked it. I'M the hero, not this Revan has-been who failed.

(P.S. Haven't done any flashpoints on the Imp side, I've only done republic up to around lvl 40. Not a big fan of grouping, Pretty much only do flashpoints solo "for the story".)

 

 

(Maelstrom Prison I believe was the last I did, which, along with the one before it, are presumably the Revan ones you refer to. There is no indication that I remember in either of those that Revan was some genocidal lunatic. Merely tieing in more with the JK storyline that he tried to off the emperor and failed. Though I'll admit, the flashpoints tend to be so storylight that it's possible I just wasn't paying much attention

 

[Blackholeskipper]

 

Note: This is a long post, with a tl'dr at the end, but I'd recommend you actually read it.

 

Well, three things, which I’ll explain in parts.

 

Yes, I know that there are other problems in the game, like pvp, insane lag due to horrid engine, dead servers, but those are all known and discussed, so I won’t be talking about them here.

 

 

1. It isn’t a story driven MMO. Not at all. It is merely an average MMO with voice acting thrown on top of it.

Bioware has produced some of the best stories in video game history. KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age, Mass Effect (1 and 2) were all unique because the plot of the games drove the player towards the end. They were character driven stories, where you controlled a character whom you shape into who you want him/her to be, and see him grow. Your actions in game had a profound effect on the game world, and you felt a sense of accomplishment whenever you did something. Every action had a consequence, and that resulted directly in creating a living breathing world.

 

With SWTOR, the development team decided to keep the focus on a character driven story, but this came at the cost of making it feel like a solo game with people running around in it. What’s worse is that, despite being a character driven game, your character, even at the end of it, is incredibly plain and uninteresting. This is because there isn’t any breathing room in the story. It’s all incredibly linear. You’re always some slave turned sith apprentice, and you’re always some down on his luck guy that got his ship stolen.

 

Your character is also plain because the story you play has no influence at all on the overall. So you’re now done with the class story and you’re on the dark council? Good for you! That has no bearing whatsoever on anything, ever. It doesn’t feel like you’ve accomplished anything, because as soon as you leave your instanced story and step into the fleet, you’re going to see many many others exactly like you. All the class stories have almost no bearing or even any relation the main plot going around in the game, which is the cold war between the Republic and the Empire.

 

Well, you may argue that this is to be expected, and they can’t accommodate that many different choices in the class story, so they’re bound to have it similar to everyone, which is completely true. What should have been done, however, is to make the game plot driven. The game should have been focused on a central plot centered around the cold war, and the class quests should have been a bonus, coming of age side plot.

 

This makes sense, because in all of the stories, you start off down on your luck and evolve into a massive powerhouse “I can rule the universe so **** you” type. While cool, they are really detached from the main plot and themes of the universe at large. The game should have revolved around, you know, what was actually going on in the universe at large.

 

Making the plot revolve around the universe at large also presents better opportunities for roleplaying and cooperative play. It makes more sense for the story to push players into a goal of beating the crap out of the opposing faction than it is to play the warrior storyline for the billionth time.

 

This happens sometimes, but nowhere near enough. Take for example, Tatooine. The main quest in the planet is a treasure hunt, and it is wonderful. Here is a prime example of the story pushing you forward! What is this mysterious power? Where can I find it? How do I stop it? What does it do? Can I salvage it? That Darth guy sure is nice! It presents an interesting outlook on the universe, and can really bring players together.

 

The problem is that, when there is a worldwide plot instead of the single player class quest, it’s marred by bad design choices. The game just doesn’t want you to explore. Ever. I was incredibly frustrated whenever I get a warning when I go too far and start losing health. Why would you do this? This just separates the game into distinct zones, and there is nothing at all interesting in them except that there are random quests here. There’s nothing to take in. All that is available are quests separated by an insanely long walk that would be suicide without a speeder.

 

Taris is another example. While the central plot of that planet isn’t as interesting as tat in my opinion, the plot still drives it. In the empire side, you have this Sith chick who annoys the living crap out of you, and she really pushes you to doing quests. I’d do the insanely long bonus quests just to spite her.

 

Again, the planet has some horrible design choices. I’m looking directly at you, bonus quest in a heroic area with a wondering champion and a world boss.

 

 

Now you’re wondering, all the examples I’ve given have story and plot, so the game is plot driven! Your examples don’t connect with the title! Well, the problem is, these are few and far in between. The game is filled, filled with grind quests. Most of the game is grind quests. The only difference is that these quests, unlike WoW, are voiced. This does NOT make the game plot driven. If the quests in the game are all basic “go kill 10 rodents”, then they are not plot driven. You can add all the voice acting in the world and it won’t make these quests relevant to any meaningful plot.

 

If people want to claim that these quests are plot driven, then by the very same argument, WoW is a plot driven game. Pretty much every single quest in WoW that involves grind also gives you a backstory to motivate you. It isn’t voiced, but the meaning and intention is the exact same. There is NO difference between reading about killing 10 rats for the goodwill of the Horde and killing 10 republics because the guy you were talking to hates them. None whatsoever.

 

All BioWare managed to do is make basic quests like these infinitely more expensive to produce, and there are a LOT of them. They should have made each planet, like Tat, have their own plot that is in direct relation to the story of the world at large, and all questing should be related to this. If you’re going to argue that this takes a long time and is hard to implement, well yes it is. But that’s their job. This is what it takes to make questing plot driven. Having a guy tell you with VO to do the exact same quest that every game gives you does not make a story driven game.

 

I think of the quests in Guild Wars 2 and think that this is what should have been in SWTOR.

 

 

The main story of the entire universe, sadly, is told through irregular disconnected flashpoints. After playing the Black Talon and the Esseles, I thought that BioWare hit a homerun! PLOT! These dungeons were all story driven and incredibly interesting and different. They encouraged interaction, had meaningful decisions, and flat out rocked. I hated the Twilled ambassador in the esseles, and that’s okay. That’s fantastic, actually, because she’s an incredibly well written character. She made me feel something. She made me think she was an insane stupid idiot jerkface, and that is perfect. She made me feel connected to the game, made me feel like I was a part of something.

 

Even the bosses were cool. The stupid jerkface told you about this big tough guy Mandalorian, and your thoughts are, “Oh cool! This guy sounds tough. I’d better be careful where I go.” You’re given some backstory and info into a boss, and I thought that was very cool.

 

Unfortunately, the design is abandoned IMMEDIATELY afterwords. Each flashpoint after has nothing interesting whatsoever. The story driven style is completely abandoned, and the only thing you get in its place is a quick chat with Malgus or New Bastilla. That’s it. Oh, and the insanely cliche light/dark choice that you make that has no bearing whatsoever. It’s literrally only just there because BW remembered halfway that these were an important part of forming your character, except that meaningless choices like these have no impact.

 

The problem is that these have the most connection the world at large. These give you the most insight into what’s happening in the game world. The most that you can get into the universe is a quick chat with Malgus and Bastila before your mission.

 

This makes me feel that the whole design of the game is broken on a fundamental level that cannot be fixed unless it was completely rebooted. We have a story driven game that isn’t story driven that’s filled with cliche quests that have nothing to do with anything focusing on a single player story that has no effect on the universe at large and actively discourages grouping up as a result.

 

The game fails because it has a whole exciting universe build up, with tension and sith and jedi and everything a Star Wars fan could hope for, but it’s focused on all the wrong aspects.

 

 

 

 

2. They ruined the story of Revan forever.

 

Spoilers for Kotor 1 and 2, as well as the foundry below:

 

 

Knights of the Old Republic is one of the best games of all time. Whenever someone thinks BioWare, they think of this gem. It was amazing. It created a incredible, believable world, and managed to succeed as a SW game despite being set almost 4K years away and having no relation to any of the big names that people know and love.

 

It was a character driven game, and everything you did made you feel in control. Revan became one of BW’s most beloved characters, one of the coolest characters in the Star Wars universe. This guy needs no introduction.

 

KotOR 2 did a great job explaining more into the enigma of Revan despite him not being featured in the game. Kreia explains that Revan never truly fell to the dark side, he felt this was the only way to combat a massive threat that could destroy the entire Republic. You were shown how his attacks were strategic, getting rid of weak senators and serving to strengthen the Republic overtime. This made Revan incredibly mysterious, and made him into a type of anti-villain/tragic character.

 

It strengthened the theme of betrayal. The Jedi betray the Republic, Revan betrays the Jedi, the Exile betrays Revan (when she doesn’t go into the unknowns with him), Revan betrays the Republic, Malak betrays Revan, and so on and so forth. All of this is centered on Kreia, who’s the biggest manipulator in the SW universe. Take that Palpatine! Kreia was instrumental in Revan and Malak becoming who they are, and also was instrumental in the rise of Sion and Nihilus. She’s responsible for 4 insane ******es, all linked to her through the theme of loss and betrayal.

 

The end of Kotor 2 made it intertesting. You’re left thinking, just what is this mysterious threat? What do they want? Can the republic be saved?

 

Then, 300 years later.

 

 

To be fair, SWTOR did this quite well. The game starts 300 years later and the first thing you see is this ****** sith empire kicking butt and taking names. This immediately closes the book and ends the story of Revan. It needs no explaining. Revan failed. The threat that he worked hard to defeat is here, and he has no relevance to the story anymore. His role in it is over. He should not be in this game because given that it takes place 3 centuries after we heard of him, he is now irrelevant to anything that’s going on.

 

Except, Revan is featured, as most of you know may know, in what’s probably the only kind of sort of story driven flashpoint that isn’t called the Black Talon or the Esseles. And they ruined him. Revan went from this dark mysterious guy, neither Jedi nor Sith, into a psychopath that wants to kill off every single person in the Empire, even civilians. The backstory that Obsidian crafted was thrown out the window. Before he only fell so he can strengthen the Republic. Now, it’s “Yeah I fell. Twas awesome. Then I hit my head and forgot everything. Then I guess I figured I’d be a Jedi again because why not?”

 

He went from a tragic hero who did the impossible to a pretty black and white good guy turned bad guy turned good guy again. They had a great backstory and they threw it out the window for no reason whatsoever. His actions in this game are in stark contrast to the intelligent, manipulative, calculating man that he was established in the story before.

 

He went from smart to completely insane.

 

His character was weakened for no reason, and it’s never going to change. He was ruined. It’s bad when a cult devoted to the guy paint him in a better picture.

 

He was only put in the game in a turn of fan service gone horribly wrong. Being kept alive 300 years is a stupid form of story telling, and they could have done a much better job. Heck, if he wasn’t included, Kotor 3 could have existed with SWTOR. SWTOR shows the aftermath, and Kotor 3 gives you the final story of Revan, and how he ultimately failed.

 

Or, they could have added it in an expansion, with flashbacks or what have you, showing how Revan failed.

 

What we got is a character who was destroyed just for fan service.

 

 

 

 

 

3.The class stories are not good.

 

 

I’m going to start this off by stating that the Agent story is one of the best, if not THE best, things that BioWare has ever done. Ever. This story is brilliant. Every single thing about this story screams classic BioWare, the ones that gave us Jade Empire, not the Mass Effect 3 BioWare. This story is so genius, I’m surprised BW even included it, considering how the Agent is one of the least played classes in the entire game, and has been nerfed to hell and back ever since the first patch.

 

Most other stories, sadly, are not up to par. The Sith Warrior story is pretty cool, and that’s it basically. Given that the they advertised that the game is story driven with epic plots, having most of the class stories ranging from decent (trooper) to outright terrible (counselor) is not a good sign. With most of the budget going to VO and story development, I really expected them to be better.

 

With the exception of the Agent story, none of these are anywhere near the quality of past BW titles.

 

The biggest offender in my opinion is the Jedi Knight story,

which goes hand in hand with the second point in my post. Revan’s mission to kill the Emperor is now in the hands of some newbie Jedi that has nothing to do with anything that happened before. It’s kind of like Shepard dying randomly in Mass Effect, then having some random guy you never heard of before casually pick up his gun and finish his story like nothing happened. It’s idiotic, and it’s bad story telling that further serves to ruin what they had with Revan as a character.

 

 

 

I didn't write much here, since this point is subjective, but I was on the whole disappointed with most of the stories.

 

 

TL;DR:

 

1. The game isn't plot driven, it just adds voice overs over the same quests you've seen countless times before, and focuses on the wrong aspects of the story.

 

2. Revan had no business being in this game, and is a complete contradiction to how he was portrayed in the previous games.

 

3. The actual class stories are not up to par with anything BW has done before, not including the Agent story, which is genius.

 

 

This is my favorite post in the swtorverse!

 

As a fan of both KOTOR I and II, I was extremely disappointed with how Revan's (and the Exile's) stories were handled. It's alright to jump the story forward 300 years but its not alright to leave a giant gaping hole and try fill it with a poorly written background story. And what's the current emperor even trying to do? I keep hearing he's trying to wipe out all life in the galaxy. I mean, seriously?? Just seems over the top and not entirely too smart. What's he going to after? Hang out with droids?

Edited May 31, 2012 by Blackholeskipper

[dazednconfuzed]

But why would a smuggler have the same story like a trooper? In Kotor you were a Jedi and that determined the story. I this game you can be an agent instead. If the planetary story would be the main story of the game, you probably wouldn't feel like an agent.

 

Smuggler or Bounty Hunter, you hear about an ancient treasure on Tatooine. Think of the credits...

Agent or Trooper, You superiors inform you of a possible weapon hidden on Tatooine. Go and find it.

Jedi and Sith, you hear of an ancient treasure on Tatooine. Might be worth checking out in case it a Jedi/Sith artifact.

 

There you go, 2 minutes and I have came up with possible hooks to pull a character into the planet's story arc. You could even hear this rumour from, say, your trainer, who just happens to mention it while you are picking up new skills. They direct you to a planetary contact, which is where you all get to start grouping.

[Alavastre]

Good post. I have to say that I agree completely. I did like the SI quest though, but it was kind of weird at times with the same plot themes running over from Act II to Act III. Which is fine, but it was more like, you walk into battle and stub your toe type of motif, which was odd that it would happen over and over again.

 

I also think BW should unretcon Revan, since his death wasn't very convincing. That and I don't know how a bunch of level 40's kill Revan.

[dalekjs]

 

 

 

This is my favorite post in the swtorverse!

 

As a fan of both KOTOR I and II, I was extremely disappointed with how Revan's (and the Exile's) stories were handled. It's alright to jump the story forward 300 years but its not alright to leave a giant gaping hole and try fill it with a poorly written background story.

And what's the current emperor even trying to do? I keep hearing he's trying to wipe out all life in the galaxy. I mean, seriously?? Just seems over the top and not entirely too smart. What's he going to after? Hang out with droids?

 

Thank you! I agree with the Emperor bit as well (I added spoilers to my quote though). It just doesn't seem well planned, and it's basically

a ripoff of the Nihilus character in KOTOR2

 

[Rayla_Felana]

Why is it unreasonable? Isn't it their job? I think it's completely reasonable to expect them to be good at it, especially when you consider that this game has the larges budget of any video game, ever.

 

Had it been like other mmo's with the focus not on the story, then I would have agreed with you. But considering that the main selling point of SWTOR is the story, having most of them being badly written is a pretty bad deal.

 

Problem here is, not all of the stories are meant for your own tastes, I don't really bother to play any of the non-force classes because they are not my type of story, I am a big fan of the Exile and Exar Kun, not Han and Boba, the story will change in quality depending on your own view, I didn't like the IA story at all, wasn't my type of thing, but other people out there call it a masterpiece and the best story in the game.

[Rayla_Felana]

I also think BW should unretcon Revan, since his death wasn't very convincing. That and I don't know how a bunch of level 40's kill Revan.

 

He got far better treatment than the Exile did, that was truly pathetic.

[sambeta]

Completely agree OP. Great post.

 

 

Edit:

 

 

Also this whole transfer essence thing with this new emperor at the end of the current story is just a further rip off from the other EU stories. It's bland, unimaginative and lacks originality.

 

Edited June 2, 2012 by sambeta

[dalekjs]

Problem here is, not all of the stories are meant for your own tastes, I don't really bother to play any of the non-force classes because they are not my type of story, I am a big fan of the Exile and Exar Kun, not Han and Boba, the story will change in quality depending on your own view, I didn't like the IA story at all, wasn't my type of thing, but other people out there call it a masterpiece and the best story in the game.

 

I posted in a previous response that this shouldn't matter. I'm interested in all the stories (I am a pretty big SW nerd, heh), but the problem wasn't that they didn't interest me, it was that they weren't very well written. The IA story was the best written in terms of pacing, development, ect, not just purely in content. There's a problem with a lot of the stories (for example the trooper and smuggler storylines fizzling out after the first act), and considering how they were aiming for a story driven type of game and a massive budget allocated to this, there isn't an excuse.

 

 

He got far better treatment than the Exile did, that was truly pathetic.

 

I donno. I was horrified at what happened to the Exile. Truly truly horrified. But Revan was fundamentally changed to become a bad character, a sort of prototype Anakin Skywalker.

 

Both of them were handled poorly, I guess we can agree on that!

[Rayla_Felana]

I donno. I was horrified at what happened to the Exile. Truly truly horrified. But Revan was fundamentally changed to become a bad character, a sort of prototype Anakin Skywalker.

 

Both of them were handled poorly, I guess we can agree on that!

 

The Exile went from powerful Jedi Master who saved the galaxy to Padawan-level fangirl for Revan, that was not just a change, that was character murder 101.

 

 

Then he killed her off to have the excuse of putting his baby Revan in the game.

[dalekjs]

Completely agree OP. Great post.

 

 

Edit:

 

 

Also this whole transfer essence thing with this new emperor at the end of the current story is just a further rip off from the other EU stories. It's bland, unimaginative and lacks originality.

 

Why thank you! And agreed!

 

 

The Exile went from powerful Jedi Master who saved the galaxy to Padawan-level fangirl for Revan, that was not just a change, that was character murder 101.

 

 

Then he killed her off to have the excuse of putting his baby Revan in the game.

 

Ah! Tbh I had only read the summary of the novel. I knew it was bad, but had no idea it was that bad.