I’ve finally figured out what frustrates me about SWTOR. (It isn't that story driven)

[Kourage]

I was led to believe a class story would motivate me to level every class. Well I found out that the class story is only 15% of the questing you'll need to do to level a character. The other 85% is doing the same space missions day after day. Running Warzones with random players who may or may not know how to play or what to do. Repeating the same side quests and planetary quests, or bonus quests. All those other quests are not optional. You must do them, or you simply won't level on pace with your class story. Even leveling with rest XP all of the time, I can hardly afford to skip any quests.

 

Oh and grinding. They thought that giving me a bonus quest to kill 35 bugs or droids after I kill the 1st NPC in a zone, or simply by entering it would make me think I wasn't grinding. It is grinding. Kill 20 of something and we'll give you a bonus exp reward equal to the exp you were given for the 1st 5 you killed. It's still grinding and they didn't cover it up very well.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Kourage

[Agemnon]

"The Sith Warrior story is pretty cool, and that’s it basically. Given that the they advertised that the game is story driven with epic plots, having most of the class stories ranging from decent (trooper) to outright terrible (counselor) is not a good sign."

 

Yeah I don't like how Nadia's dad was killed either =( He is one of my favorite characters in the entire game and Nadia feels like a sister.

[Eillack]

I thought the class stories were good.

[blur]

1. The game isn't plot driven, it just adds voice overs over the same quests you've seen countless times before, and focuses on the wrong aspects of the story.

 

2. Revan had no business being in this game, and is a complete contradiction to how he was portrayed in the previous games.

 

3. The actual class stories are not up to par with anything BW has done before, not including the Agent story, which is genius.

 

Totally agree with all three.

[dalekjs]

Totally agree with all three.

 

Why thank you!

 

I thought the class stories were good.

 

I think the class stories were interesting. They should be interesting to any SW fan, which most of us are. The problem was that they weren't written well at all. Most of them have severe pacing issues, and some just die out after act one. For a story driven mmo, they should have been much better.

[Chanez]

2. They ruined the story of Revan forever.

 

Spoilers for Kotor 1 and 2, as well as the foundry below:

 

 

Knights of the Old Republic is one of the best games of all time. Whenever someone thinks BioWare, they think of this gem. It was amazing. It created a incredible, believable world, and managed to succeed as a SW game despite being set almost 4K years away and having no relation to any of the big names that people know and love.

 

It was a character driven game, and everything you did made you feel in control. Revan became one of BW’s most beloved characters, one of the coolest characters in the Star Wars universe. This guy needs no introduction.

 

KotOR 2 did a great job explaining more into the enigma of Revan despite him not being featured in the game. Kreia explains that Revan never truly fell to the dark side, he felt this was the only way to combat a massive threat that could destroy the entire Republic. You were shown how his attacks were strategic, getting rid of weak senators and serving to strengthen the Republic overtime. This made Revan incredibly mysterious, and made him into a type of anti-villain/tragic character.

 

It strengthened the theme of betrayal. The Jedi betray the Republic, Revan betrays the Jedi, the Exile betrays Revan (when she doesn’t go into the unknowns with him), Revan betrays the Republic, Malak betrays Revan, and so on and so forth. All of this is centered on Kreia, who’s the biggest manipulator in the SW universe. Take that Palpatine! Kreia was instrumental in Revan and Malak becoming who they are, and also was instrumental in the rise of Sion and Nihilus. She’s responsible for 4 insane ******es, all linked to her through the theme of loss and betrayal.

 

The end of Kotor 2 made it intertesting. You’re left thinking, just what is this mysterious threat? What do they want? Can the republic be saved?

 

Then, 300 years later.

 

 

To be fair, SWTOR did this quite well. The game starts 300 years later and the first thing you see is this ****** sith empire kicking butt and taking names. This immediately closes the book and ends the story of Revan. It needs no explaining. Revan failed. The threat that he worked hard to defeat is here, and he has no relevance to the story anymore. His role in it is over. He should not be in this game because given that it takes place 3 centuries after we heard of him, he is now irrelevant to anything that’s going on.

 

Except, Revan is featured, as most of you know may know, in what’s probably the only kind of sort of story driven flashpoint that isn’t called the Black Talon or the Esseles. And they ruined him. Revan went from this dark mysterious guy, neither Jedi nor Sith, into a psychopath that wants to kill off every single person in the Empire, even civilians. The backstory that Obsidian crafted was thrown out the window. Before he only fell so he can strengthen the Republic. Now, it’s “Yeah I fell. Twas awesome. Then I hit my head and forgot everything. Then I guess I figured I’d be a Jedi again because why not?”

 

He went from a tragic hero who did the impossible to a pretty black and white good guy turned bad guy turned good guy again. They had a great backstory and they threw it out the window for no reason whatsoever. His actions in this game are in stark contrast to the intelligent, manipulative, calculating man that he was established in the story before.

 

He went from smart to completely insane.

 

His character was weakened for no reason, and it’s never going to change. He was ruined. It’s bad when a cult devoted to the guy paint him in a better picture.

 

He was only put in the game in a turn of fan service gone horribly wrong. Being kept alive 300 years is a stupid form of story telling, and they could have done a much better job. Heck, if he wasn’t included, Kotor 3 could have existed with SWTOR. SWTOR shows the aftermath, and Kotor 3 gives you the final story of Revan, and how he ultimately failed.

 

Or, they could have added it in an expansion, with flashbacks or what have you, showing how Revan failed.

 

What we got is a character who was destroyed just for fan service.

 

 

Yeah because being

tortured for 300 years straight

would keep anyone perfectly normal and sane, totally:rolleyes:. So he should be totally the same person, and you must be totally right.

So yes, they killed his story by making him tough enough not to submit to the emperors

torture

, because everyone knew he was so weak before:rolleyes:, im sorry i never looked at it this way, ill try to be more open-minded.

[dalekjs]

Yeah because being

tortured for 300 years straight

would keep anyone perfectly normal and sane, totally:rolleyes:. So he should be totally the same person, and you must be totally right.

So yes, they killed his story by making him tough enough not to submit to the emperors

torture

, because everyone knew he was so weak before:rolleyes:, im sorry i never looked at it this way, ill try to be more open-minded.

 

I think you just skimmed through what I posted. My point is Revan has no business being in this game. It's 300 years later, he's completely irrelevant to the world at large. The player can deduce that Revan and the Exile failed to stop the Empire because they're continually wrecking the Republic. They killed his story by shoving him into the game when he has no reason to be in it, by making a dues ex machina that maks him live for 300 years, and by completely ruining his characterization from KOTOR 2. He should not have been through that because that entire plot point is ridiculous and serves no purpose other than shoving in a trademark character as soon as possible.

 

If you're going to look at the way Revan was written in the two KOTOR games, then look fans of that series in the face and tell them that he's a strong character because of the reasons you mentioned, then you're not going to find a lot of support.

[sambeta]

Yeah because being

tortured for 300 years straight

would keep anyone perfectly normal and sane, totally:rolleyes:. So he should be totally the same person, and you must be totally right.

So yes, they killed his story by making him tough enough not to submit to the emperors

torture

, because everyone knew he was so weak before:rolleyes:, im sorry i never looked at it this way, ill try to be more open-minded.

Actually if you had of rolled an empire character and played the Foundry you'd actually know what you're talking about. Clearly you don't.

[Goretzu]

I don't think the story side is bad, I really like it, it is a bit limited in the MMORPG format though.

 

The big problem is that story doesn't replace staple MMORPG activities, although it would enhance them massively.

 

A SWTOR with all that story and voice acting with the best bits of other MMORPGs would have been something truly special.

[Elmillia]

3. The actual class stories are not up to par with anything BW has done before, not including the Agent story, which is genius.

 

The Trooper story line is the best story in the history of gaming. Fact.

[tegororn]

2. They ruined the story of Revan forever.

 

I assume you din't read Revan.

 

I strongly recommend you read or listen Drew Karpyshyn's Revan novel-audio book. It's exactly KOTOR3 and connects KOTOR somehow to SWTOR. Thus you will find out that the story is not actually ruined.

 

 

The Knight story in the game is also written by Drew. And it was a stunning moment when i first saw "Lord Scourge" . Because he plays a very important role in Revan's story. Taking him as a companion makes you feel like you are in Revan's story in some way.

 

[dalekjs]

I assume you din't read Revan.

 

I strongly recommend you read or listen Drew Karpyshyn's Revan novel-audio book. It's exactly KOTOR3 and connects KOTOR somehow to SWTOR. Thus you will find out that the story is not actually ruined.

 

 

The Knight story in the game is also written by Drew. And it was a stunning moment when i first saw "Lord Scourge" . Because he plays a very important role in Revan's story. Taking him as a companion makes you feel like you are in Revan's story in some way.

 

I assume you didn't read anything I wrote in this thread. Revan was ruined because he went from one of the most strongly written characters in SW to a whiny genocidal proto-Anakin. I'm well aware of the novel, and I count it as the start of ruining his character, not to mention, as a previous poster said, that it went ahead and destroyed the Exile as well.

[Valkirus]

What I noticed is, your decisions did not matter. Other than for dark or light side points. I never felt like I had any control over the events which were happening to my char and the world other than completing them. The stories were well written and the plots done well also. But it would have been the same outcome if they never had you make a choice.

[sambeta]

The Trooper story line is the best story in the history of gaming. Fact.

 

Hehe, someone likes cheesy 80s stories.

[Girdeux]

I assume you didn't read anything I wrote in this thread. Revan was ruined because he went from one of the most strongly written characters in SW to a whiny genocidal proto-Anakin. I'm well aware of the novel, and I count it as the start of ruining his character, not to mention, as a previous poster said, that it went ahead and destroyed the Exile as well.

 

One of the most strongly written characters? He was barely written about. You BARELY knew anything about him from Kotor 1 or 2. The only reason the character was so popular is because he was a blank slate of nothingness which allowed the player to inject his own personality into, becoming the character himself. Almost the exact same scenario for the Exile, with just a little background information.

 

People were so pissed off about Revan in the novel because it wasnt "their" character anymore and his persona not being in line with how the player played him. Also alot of it has to do with the player thinking Revan is some unkillable godlike Jedi that 1 shots star destroyers out the sky and turns everyone into space dust with his mere presence.

[naNuke]

thoughts about Revan:

 

have the OP and any of people angry about Revan going psycho actualy thought about the reasons?

 

try to spend 300 years in emperors hand having your mind sucked everyday and you would go insane also.

He have seen all the horror thoughts in emperors head and managed to stay conscious so he is quite the hero in my eyes.

 

When imperial party defeats Revan in their flashpoint, you dont really see him die (he magicaly dissapears) so it's quite obvious that he will come back and his story is not finished yet.

 

And personaly I think, that whole foundry action was just excuse and Revan knew imperials would get him, maybe he just wanted to suicide in flashy way or cover his true intentions, or a way to forgive himself for his fail before, or he just gone completely mad and we will see him as main antagonist in later story

 

 

[tolaf]

One of the most strongly written characters? He was barely written about. You BARELY knew anything about him from Kotor 1 or 2. The only reason the character was so popular is because he was a blank slate of nothingness which allowed the player to inject his own personality into, becoming the character himself. Almost the exact same scenario for the Exile, with just a little background information.

 

People were so pissed off about Revan in the novel because it wasnt "their" character anymore and his persona not being in line with how the player played him. Also alot of it has to do with the player thinking Revan is some unkillable godlike Jedi that 1 shots star destroyers out the sky and turns everyone into space dust with his mere presence.

 

I agree, the reason i didn't like the Revan books was because he wasn't my Revan.

The Revan in the book acted sort of like a jerk at times, while my Revan was a paragon.

[Kaisernick]

Well, I respect your opinion, but mine differs.

 

My only regret is that I got to the end of the story with my Jedi too soon. I expected leveling to be more like WoW, where in five years I never got a character to max level. But they've said more content is coming.

 

SWTOR is KOTOR that I can play with my wife, which is exactly what I wanted. I am happy.

 

i was the same in wow

yet in TOr i have 2 lvl 50 and many high lvl alts i think cause unlike wow u are more driven to see what happens in the story therefor u play it more.

 

also i think cause many servers are dieing right now doing quests seems the only thing to do.

[Kaisernick]

I assume you didn't read anything I wrote in this thread. Revan was ruined because he went from one of the most strongly written characters in SW to a whiny genocidal proto-Anakin. I'm well aware of the novel, and I count it as the start of ruining his character, not to mention, as a previous poster said, that it went ahead and destroyed the Exile as well.

 

well let me ask you how would you do their storys going on from kotor.

[tolaf]

i was the same in wow

yet in TOr i have 2 lvl 50 and many high lvl alts i think cause unlike wow u are more driven to see what happens in the story therefor u play it more.

 

also i think cause many servers are dieing right now doing quests seems the only thing to do.

 

Yes the game was designed to immerse you in good storylines so you want to play more, forme this is a game maker and breaker.

I like the story lines, but the fast leveling and legacy system make it obvious that you are supossed to make alts and complete every story line, but this just keeps me from connecting with my character.

[tolaf]

well let me ask you how would you do their storys going on from kotor.

 

Make him a very nice person who tries to attone for his mistakes.

 

Also i didn't like how he was a jerk to Attriss in the library, for my Revan that would have been totally out of character.

 

I don't think they should have included Revan in anything, because people (such as myself) would get mad that Revan dosen't act the way they thought he would.

 

Revan was geat because you made his character, a book over him and including him in this game was a mistake.

[dalekjs]

Make him a very nice person who tries to attone for his mistakes.

 

Also i didn't like how he was a jerk to Attriss in the library, for my Revan that would have been totally out of character.

 

I don't think they should have included Revan in anything, because people (such as myself) would get mad that Revan dosen't act the way they thought he would.

 

Revan was geat because you made his character, a book over him and including him in this game was a mistake.

 

I agree with this, although I actually wouldn't have minded much if they included him in a kotor 3. What really annoyed me was how his characterization in kotor 2 was completely abandoned for the worst. They could have done something great with what Obsidian was going with.

[Elmillia]

Hehe, someone likes cheesy 80s stories.

 

Not too sure what is meant by "cheesy 80s stories" But i do love how the trooper story feels like you're having an effect on the galaxy. The REASON you Jedi and Smugglers are able to use your hyperdrives is because of me!

 

 

Trooper chapter two was about an imperial ship that could shoot ships out of hyperspace

 

 

I know we have no effect on the overall MMO world, but i disagree with the Op. It does feel like we have an effect on the Galaxy.

[BradyJohnston]

Even if you didn't like him, I think Revan has earned the status of a legendary character of his era, and they did him an injustice with how they showed him in SWTOR. It seems like a desperate attempt to fit their privious game's hero, but they just went too far. It's like trying to bring Darth Maul back in the TV show. HE IS DEAD! New eras call for new heroes, and like the OP said, we'd like to see what happened with his fall (Btw the book was bullcrap as well) but they need to let him go.

 

This was the perfect oppertunity to tell a unique new story like they did with Kotor, but this is too much "Go here, do this" instead of good storytelling. Im playing as a jedi knight, and some of the flashpoints and class missions are okay (not as good as kotor though) but 80% of the game is made up of meaningless chores of cleaning up imps for an incompetent republic military. My friends who have not played kotor think this is story driven, but as a person who has beaten Kotor 1 and 2 10+ times, I think Swtor has too shallow of a plot line. I wish they would erase this from star wars canon and continue with Kotor games.

[tolaf]

Even if you didn't like him, I think Revan has earned the status of a legendary character of his era, and they did him an injustice with how they showed him in SWTOR. It seems like a desperate attempt to fit their privious game's hero, but they just went too far. It's like trying to bring Darth Maul back in the TV show. HE IS DEAD! New eras call for new heroes, and like the OP said, we'd like to see what happened with his fall (Btw the book was bullcrap as well) but they need to let him go.

 

This was the perfect oppertunity to tell a unique new story like they did with Kotor, but this is too much "Go here, do this" instead of good storytelling. Im playing as a jedi knight, and some of the flashpoints and class missions are okay (not as good as kotor though) but 80% of the game is made up of meaningless chores of cleaning up imps for an incompetent republic military. My friends who have not played kotor think this is story driven, but as a person who has beaten Kotor 1 and 2 10+ times, I think Swtor has too shallow of a plot line. I wish they would erase this from star wars canon and continue with Kotor games.

 

Couldn't agree more.

The game was nice but i think BW should stick to console games and make a KOTOR3 and let soemone else make a fun Star Wars MMO