TapSumBatt Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Whats needed with Pyrotech is an added ability, an ability that demands cast and then spread their damage more to that one. A slight nerf to dps is in order without buffing survivability, it's simply way over the top. It will accomplish: * Increased skill-cap since you cant be on the move all the time, and you can now get your castable interrupted. No class should have only instants as dps rotation. But what is needed is a new ability, not a cast on flameburst since it has way to short range. PS. I have two PT's. Example: Plasma Burst: Castable 1,5 seconds. 10 sec CD, 30 m range - High damage. Tune down Armor Pen on Railshot, make combustible gas cylinder proc and flameburst non-elemental damage. Result: The mindlessly spam Style-of-play will be nerfed. Overall damage tuned down a bit. Skilled players who can time their casts will be rewarded. Skilled players who can interrupt it will also be rewarded. In short, burst will demand timing and can be reduced by skillful play. Edited May 30, 2012 by TapSumBatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffrenBrek Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) I'm done with you. I don't argue with people who don't even know how to play their own class. Running out of arguments? Please, educate me how to play my class. Tell me about the massive AOE damage abilities I have! Edited May 30, 2012 by JeffrenBrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Dear OP, you might want to take the time to read http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=466591 . In this thread you will come to understand the weaknesses and the strengths of the Pyros. That thread also contains arguments and detailed insight into the skills the Pyros use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Running out of arguments? Please, educate me how to play my class. Tell me about the massive AOE damage abilities I have! Ok, fine. You said that flamethrower is only useful for bunker fights on NC. Wrong. Voidstar and Civil War both involve massive cluster fights at the doors and nodes. In all 3 of those WZs you should be basically using flamethrower off cooldown. In huttball AoE is less effective, but even in that wz there are large clusters that form around the ball. If you take an equally skilled and geared PT and Mara, put them on the same team, the PT should out damage his mara friend 100% of the time. Especially if they are focusing target together. The marauder applies Dots which allow the PT to Railshot for range as a first attack. The marauder has backloaded damage while the PT has upfront burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YanksfanJP Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 So a guy in my guild who got so sick of getting destroyed in pvp by a bunch of powertechs finally got his to level 50. Day 1. Recruit gear. He is doing 400k dps in warzones!!! Next closest guy is not even breaking 300k. Rated warzones are just going to have groups of these guys running around all throwing their sticky grenade on one dude and insta-killing him. It takes literally NO skill. Bioware - please do something to unbreak the ridiculously short time-to-kill that you implemented in 1.2. The fact that you don't even know what something simple like DPS means gives me no reason to believe or be concerned at all with anything else you have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffrenBrek Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Ok, fine. You said that flamethrower is only useful for bunker fights on NC. Wrong. Voidstar and Civil War both involve massive cluster fights at the doors and nodes. In all 3 of those WZs you should be basically using flamethrower off cooldown. The only part where Flamethrower would be useful in Voidstar is the first door, when the other team is stacked up at the side of the door. That would mean I would need to stand right in front of them, that they must not move, that I must not move and that they would shoot me down in a few seconds. Might be useful in Huttball occassionly but I have DFA for that and Railshot is more effective for going after the ball carrier. In huttball AoE is less effective, but even in that wz there are large clusters that form around the ball. If you take an equally skilled and geared PT and Mara, put them on the same team, the PT should out damage his mara friend 100% of the time. Especially if they are focusing target together. The marauder applies Dots which allow the PT to Railshot for range as a first attack. The marauder has backloaded damage while the PT has upfront burst. No and no. I don't need the Marauder to apply any kind of dots. I can do that myself. And you still haven't told me why most of my damage is AOE based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 And you still haven't told me why most of my damage is AOE based. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that most of your damage is AoE based. I said that you can put out lots of AoE damage. And you still haven't even attempted to make an argument of any kind. Just stated your opinion as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Chrome Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 what these posts have me thinking is that on low pop servers the gear gap is probably alot higher than ona more populated server. i am a full war hero geared vanguard assault spec, and i completely melt people with no gear and squishier targets who do not know how to counter me. That being said when i fight anyone with any amount of skill it is a very close fight. this includes marauders and assassins, the reson for this is that my burst is amazing but there survivability slows that down enough so it becomes a very good fight. against smugglers in general and sages(dps) if i get the drop on them i cna hurt them very badly on the other hand if they get the drop on me i am pretty screwed. as far as healers go i have always suggessted bringing the expertise bonus healing back in line with the damage bonus. outside of that a good healer can still kite me long enough for there team to kill me. yeah a good vanguard can drop alot of damage, however, once you become known on your server as huge damage you will be killed so many times its ridiculous. so since your "friend" started dropping those kinds of numbers that quickly upon getting his recruit gear, my guess is that people ignored him the whole fight since he had less than 15-16 k hp, what that means is that the opposing team got a big surprise and won't make the same mistake, or they are really bad and your friend will feel extremely op until the rest of your server wises up. all that being said a Assault spec vanguard /(filthy empire mirrorclass) can be shut down fairly easily by alot of classes just like pretty much any other class with the exception of maybe tank shadows. (btw a warzone filled with one AC of any type will easily get shut down especially if they are all the same spec, they will lack alot of tools needed to win most warzones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffrenBrek Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 . Now a lot of the PT damage is AoE, Hope you can see that Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that most of your damage is AoE based. I said that you can put out lots of AoE damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Hope you can see that Yeah, "a lot" does not equal "most". "a lot" is a relative term. Maybe by "a lot" I meant 25%. Since many ACs / specs put out little to no aoe (annihlation marauders for one) when comapring those 2 acs PTs do "a lot" of AoE damage. Edited May 30, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osskscosco Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 1 rail shot does more dmg than a whole flamethrower and around the same dmg as a DFA. And anybody with some brain will interrupt you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 1 rail shot does more dmg than a whole flamethrower and around the same dmg as a DFA. And anybody with some brain will interrupt you. No it doesn't. Maybe one crit railshot does more damage to a single target then a full flamethrower with no crits to a single target, but you can easily do 15k damage with that single aoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 PT's do the most damage of any class in WZ's. They are also one of the easiest to kill. Give some, take some. Nerf their burst/damage, need to buff sustained and survivability. Pretty much this. One defensive cool down, marauders / sentinels and any good Sage / Sorc will still kill you. Not a thing you can do past the shield that will keep you from getting melted while the other classes have multiple ways to shrug your damage if their cool downs are up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 No it doesn't. Maybe one crit railshot does more damage to a single target then a full flamethrower with no crits to a single target, but you can easily do 15k damage with that single aoe. Exactly. When people stand around in a spot killing other people, on my level 12 BH, I'll run in and flamethrower all of them. I love it when they realize w t f just happened when their health is ticking away fast. I don't get it off as fast in the 50 warzones on my Vanguard, people move more there or I am being beat on because they all hate Vanguard / Powertechs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 No it doesn't. Maybe one crit railshot does more damage to a single target then a full flamethrower with no crits to a single target, but you can easily do 15k damage with that single aoe. Since you need to be standing right next to your opponents you usually get 1 tick of it of before you are interrupted/knocked back/stunned. Speaking of interruptable flamethrowers/pcs. If you spec for it its a different matter, than it can be a beast. But thats not the spec everyone is complaining about currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osskscosco Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 No it doesn't. Maybe one crit railshot does more damage to a single target then a full flamethrower with no crits to a single target, but you can easily do 15k damage with that single aoe. than* And you will get interrupted or knocked back after 1 tick anyways. Or you get hammered and die in 3 secs before a healer would notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakinandroid Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's not the sticky grenade. It's the pyrotech tree. All three trees have something on the first row that help rail shot penetrate armor by like 90% or something. That right there is what is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osskscosco Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Exactly. When people stand around in a spot killing other people, on my level 12 BH, I'll run in and flamethrower all of them. I love it when they realize w t f just happened when their health is ticking away fast. I don't get it off as fast in the 50 warzones on my Vanguard, people move more there or I am being beat on because they all hate Vanguard / Powertechs. As lvl 12 your damage is highly boosted to compensate the lack of abilities and skill tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwherbert Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I'm ok with a slight damage nerf (because 400k is a lot for recruit gear). However, I'm confused as to why people think PT/Vanguards can insta-kill everything. I guess the PVP crew on my server is way more experienced/geared. I don't feel I have a particular advantage over any other class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Agreed, you shot the right spot. Powertech pyro is the most OP class. 1. They do unresonable damage and ignore armor. 2. All their main attacks are ranged and instant. They press few button and instantly deliver huge damage from 10-30 meters range on the move and automatically slow target. Bioware should nerf powertechs or give to all other classes an ability to penetrate armor completly on all theirs attacks also all ranged classes should be able to do all theirs attack instant cast on the move and without cover, at the same time all melee need to remove cooldown from the charge and have spammable charge. These changes are needed to make all classes equal to the current broken state of PT/Vanguard. A 2 second slow, lol. Do you know how fast you's run out of ammo / heat if you kept that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBloodcrazed Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 People are quick to point out the 90% armor pen rail shot has, but not so quick to point out its prolly got the lowest white damage on a 15 sec cooldowns of any other class. my lvl 35 gunslinger hits for 2k aimed shot in a WZ on a 9 sec cooldown my full WH conqueror Vanguard hits for 1.8k with railshot (including armor pen) how is railshot not balanced with other classes big white dmg long cooldown attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 A 2 second slow, lol. Do you know how fast you's run out of ammo / heat if you kept that up. Did you just seriously say that? rapid fire reapplies the slow over and over, and costs 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osskscosco Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 People are quick to point out the 90% armor pen rail shot has, but not so quick to point out its prolly got the lowest white damage on a 15 sec cooldowns of any other class. my lvl 35 gunslinger hits for 2k aimed shot in a WZ on a 9 sec cooldown my full WH conqueror Vanguard hits for 1.8k with railshot (including armor pen) how is railshot not balanced with other classes big white dmg long cooldown attacks? Rofl, 2k aimed shot? How can you achieve that low dmg? And my half bm half recruit full tank powertech does more than 1,8k dmg with 1 rail shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecollo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Pyros are pretty much a melee class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Rofl, 2k aimed shot? How can you achieve that low dmg? And my half bm half recruit full tank powertech does more than 1,8k dmg with 1 rail shot. rofl, read the tooltip damage on Rail Shot. My HIB delve reads "1600 - 1888", with full warhero and 460 ranged damage bonus. I get 3.8-41k crits fully buffed and stimmed against the PVP dummy (just under 5k with relic and power adrenal). Some sniper abilities delve for over 3k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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