Roalmo Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Can anyone name a pay to play mmo from EA and its minions, that has gone ftp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I dont think you have played lotro or EQ2 then. i haven't seen any ad's. and yes you have to pay for expansions, but you have to pay for expansions here too. and you can lvl a char 1-50 without paying a cent for anything on lotro. there may not be ads exactly in lotro but there are constant links to the store.. so many infact that the majority of the players complained until the community attempted to mod the game to remove them ( i dont know if it was successful or not. i stopped playing) b ut really you couldnt turn around without a link to the store in your face in bright gold colouring... then every load screen was an advert for what you can buy at the store.. the ads were there you just didnt pay attention to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Over the years, several Free to Play developers have mentioned the vast majority of paying customers spend significantly less then $15 per month. There are people who will spend a bunch of money all at once, and then never spend anything for a very long time. I know several people who put down $250 on LOTRO when it went free to play, and now almost 20 months later they have not spent a dime since then cause they bought everything they needed right at the start, and just playing the game gives them enough Turbine points for free to buy stuff like new content when needed, all for so far $12.50 per month which will continue to go down as they continue to play the game. Then think about SWTOR, $60 for the game and if someone was to play for 20 months, that is $360 total spent. There are plenty of good examples of doing Free to Play right, but people tend to ignore the right ones, and just talk about the bad ones when talking about a game going free to play. lord of the rings is not a good model to determine how much a casual player will pay to the store. since every time you do something you get lotro points to be used in the store. it creates a lack of need to spend real world money if you earn it in the game.. so really saying that people dont spend money on the game is true, yet needs an astrix with a note that they can earn points to be used in the store in game.. so really lotro is a bad model to view how much is spent in game stores.. though the model is novel and intresting it can not be used for market research into f2p unless you are copying the model.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) You are mistaken. Money will buy stronger lightsabers than the one available to the general population; up to the point that the only way to get the BiS is to spend real money. You can't buy BiS in DDO. You can't buy BiS in LOTRO. Go ahead and list a western MMO from a reputable developer that works this way. Come back when you have some proof or your just spouting hyperbole. Edited May 27, 2012 by RocNessMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froippi Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I have played LotRO. You have to unlock one of the classes with turbine points. Let me say that again, in case it didn't penetrate your skull. You have to pay real money for one of the classes. Edit: Also, there are other limitations of a free account. Such as the amount of money you can have. unless you know how to grind TP then you can get everything in game for free and i have no spent a dime on turbine points always grinded in game if i wanted something like i got their isengard expansion free basically cause i grinded TP SWTOR is not worth the 15 bucks only reason i'm still around is cause i got stuck into a long sub and just waiting for it to expire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Anyone who wants a game to go to f2p has never played a f2p game. They end up costing you MORE than a sub game. Although Runes of Magic was one of the better games I played in the past few years, it just got too expensive to keep up with the end game. Played Aion, Lineage 2, Champions Online, Age of Conan, and LOTRO, kept up with End game in all of them, always stayed competitive, never spend more then $10 per month, average was about $8 per month. Never played Runes of Magic, but if it takes more then $15 a month to stay competitive or keep up with End game, that is an example of doing Free to Play wrong. Aion, Lineage, Lotro, Champions Online, and Age of Conan are examples of doing Free to Play right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 To be honest I like the exclusiveness than a 15 a month subscription gives you. Unless there's a trial, everyone is on the same level. It weeds out ******* and others who would otherwise hurt the community. For F2P to work they have to make the items useful. To make the items useful they have to A. Nerf the game content or B. Make the items OP. Either way you pay money for these items to give you a significant advantage. This instantly destroys all work that a F2P player has done to grind, quest, trade, or whatever his way to his current status in the game. I don't like game's where you just throw money at something and win, which is what F2P is. 15$ a month provides the service of the game, with it comes certain expectations, just like the 250$ some people pay for their Cable, Internet, and Phone. By staying P2P the staff can offer a certain level of quality, and a unified level of service across the board. Runescape is essentially two different games, and it started out Free, so I'm not sure that that is a fair comparison. If they make it F2P they will end up spending more time fielding support operations to thousands of people who don't pay a dime, while the people who actually paid lose in content and service. Game Over. It is only Pay to Win if they made it that way, there are plenty of examples of Free to Play games that are in fact not Pay to Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You can't buy BiS in DDO. You can't buy BiS in LOTRO. Go ahead and list a western MMO from a reputable developer that works this way. Come back when you have some proof or your just spouting hyperbole. World of Tanks, which has 28k concurrent users in NA, as someone stated, sells ammo that is 33% better than anything you can buy for ingame money, for cash. I say again... ammo +33% better EXCLUSIVE for money. Oops... did it hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 World of Tanks, which has 28k concurrent users in NA, as someone stated, sells ammo that is 33% better than anything you can buy for ingame money, for cash. I say again... ammo +33% better EXCLUSIVE for money. Oops... did it hurt? I think the point is, that Free To Play MMOs does not automatically mean Pay to Win. We have examples of Pay to Win Free to play and Free to Play games that are not Pay to Win. Like I said earlier, people, and apparently you are one of these, seem to ignore the good systems for Free to play that we have plenty of examples of, and only talk about the bad systems like Runes of Magic and World of Tanks. So far almost all the reputable Western MMO developers who took their game from Pay to Play to Free to Play did not make their games Pay to Win. So yes, your original statement was hyperbole, because you assumed that Free to Play is automatically Pay to Win, when there are plenty of games that prove that false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) So yes, your original statement was hyperbole, because you assumed that Free to Play is automatically Pay to Win, when there are plenty of games that prove that false. It also means that plenty of games prove this true. This statement holds no water, as it is really down to the producer.. and they will ALWAYS milk us, the players, dry. Might not be apparent, but they are. So, if you say it, it is no more or less true than how I say it... SO, if I can find ONE dev that sells power, they ALL try to and, sure as hell, I ain`t trusting anyone to hand me gifts and serve me a game in which I spend nothing without a VERY HARD incentive to "give in" and pay, to be able to stay on par. And that WoT thing is equivalent to this: BiS is 700-1000 max dmg, while I can buy 950 - 1333 max dmg. I can see how this is balanced. Go play your beloved F2P games and spare us the sight of your spins... Edited May 27, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) It also means that plenty of games prove this true. This statement holds no water, as it is really down to the producer.. and they will ALWAYS milk us, the players, dry. Might not be apparent, but they are. So, if you say it, it is no more or less true than how I say it... SO, if I can find ONE dev that sells power, they ALL try to and, sure as hell, I ain`t trusting anyone to hand me gifts and serve me a game in which I spend nothing without a VERY HARD incentive to "give in" and pay, to be able to stay on par. And that WoT thing is equivalent to this: BiS is 700-1000 max dmg, while I can buy 950 - 1333 max dmg. I can see how this is balanced. Go play your beloved F2P games and spare us the sight of your spins... No, there being games that are Pay to Win is does not prove that Free To Play automatically Pay to Win, which is what your original statement was pointing towards. The Pay to Play game that went Free to Play (western developed MMOs), one could easily spend less then $15 a month and stay on par, and are not pay to win. Given what we have seen with Western MMOs changing to Free to Play, it would be more reasonable to believe that they would go with a non Pay to Win system. Edited May 27, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) Not all Free to Play games are not pay to win. Look at NCsoft's Free to Play games, those are not Pay to Win. SO yes, there are Pay to Win MMOs, but not all Free to Play games are Pay to Win. IF SWTOR goes Free to Play, that does not automatically mean it would be pay to win. It does not automatically mean it won`t either. You, for some reason, are looking at the glass half full. Good and optimistic of you. I am looking at the half empty glass, remembering that is EA / BW we are talking about, not a 10th hand Publisher / Dev. IF this goes F2P it WILL sell power, in one way or another. At the very least it will limit features for the free users, which will introduce discrimination between players. Thanks, but no thanks. Edited May 27, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SojiroMJG Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) After seeing Aion go F2p recently the community has changed completely. I really hope TOR doesn't go F2p. Aions admins - yeah, try as hard as they may - wealth and power is still "sold" via "official" RMT. RMT is RMT however you slice it, it may not be trading cash for "credits" or "kinah" or whatever in-game currency. But you are buying official items with RMT that you will be able to leverage in one way or another and that's lame. Edited May 28, 2012 by SojiroMJG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 After seeing Aion go F2p recently the community has changed completely. I really hope TOR doesn't go F2p. Aions admins - yeah, try as hard as they may - wealth and power is still "sold" via "official" RMT. RMT is RMT however you slice it, it may not be trading cash for "credits" or "kinah" or whatever in-game currency. But you are buying official items with RMT that you will be able to leverage in one way or another and that's lame. Buy 2 play is not the same as "Free" 2 play. Buy 2 play is a proven formula. You buy the game, then you pay for DLC or expansion packs. Every friggin game runs on this model, why shouldn't MMOs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholicc Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Translation: I'm a cheapskate. SW:ToR does not NEED to be F2P,YOU just WANT it to be F2P. What it needs are server merges. ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussasp Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 It doesn't Need to, but it.... will. None of you guys have played on an MMO circling down the drain before, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessOne Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Buy 2 play is not the same as "Free" 2 play. Buy 2 play is a proven formula. You buy the game, then you pay for DLC or expansion packs. Every friggin game runs on this model, why shouldn't MMOs? Guild Wars runs, rather successfully, on that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakydvs Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 TOR should go the way of price drop. 10 bucks a month with some vanity RMT's. Really how hard would it be to impliment those changes and people are more likely to stay and justify $7.50 - $10 a month. With the introduction of Social gear you can have RMT's for all the wonderful Social gear which can tie into social gear levels. plays that have social x should be allowed to buy a darth vader suit etc. That would keep TOR alive for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 all these free threads... god damm hippies want everything for free.. *hangs head* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkirin Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 all these free threads... god damm hippies want everything for free.. *hangs head* I want more tie dye shirts and I want them now! ( and no thanks to F2P ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) As long as: a) there is still a full access subscription model available, b) nothing in the game is exclusive to F2P and/or its microtransactions, and c) paid subscriptions include more than what F2P and/or its microtransactions have access to... then I could care less. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 "Other games are F2P so this one should be too." FAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I am sooo over people saying this. No it should not be F2P... Every single f2p games that have ever existed have sucjed tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 declining pops, lack of innovation (accept single player voice overs), every patch seems to break something else, Useless "Legacy" system. i gave this game 3 months, and i think im experienced enough in MMos to compare this to a Developed F2P one. eq2 and Lotro have got it right. F2P is the way to go. This guy must be a deathmatch pvper where he gets up to a certain point in his gear and then doesnt want anything more. I have to dissagree totally. I want my sub to pay for additional content. Sure there will be expacs that cost cash but the vast majority of added content my sub will cover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I am sooo over people saying this. No it should not be F2P... Every single f2p games that have ever existed have sucjed tremendously. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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