1.3 Darth Hater article

[Dafroog]

Cool, hadnt seen this, thanks

[Holden_Dissent]

Technical inability i can forgive for awhile. Bioware has been outright stating they do not want a cross server lfg tool, and its taken them 6 months to anounce a same server lfg tool.

 

They said that? Where?

[Leggomy]

They said that? Where?

 

Its been all over the place. Its even in the article this thread was made about. They think it will ruin the non existant community if they have cross server lfg.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Leggomy

[Holden_Dissent]

Really? have you not seen the copy and paste skills comparing swtor and wow? if this game has a different core gameplay and philosphy than wow does, what is the difference between this game and wow?

 

I dont want another wow, but this game is just a vanilla wow clone and i can live with that if its a good game (which i think it is) and has enough of a player base to support expansions and updates. The only way to do that is to bring this game up to date.

 

The only things that seperates this game from wow are things that it does not have. If anyone told you that releasing any other product with less features than your competition has for the same money is a good idea would you not think they were an idiot?

 

How could you miss it? People post it all the time to somehow win an argument that isn't even being argued about.

[Holden_Dissent]

Its been all over the place. Its even in the article this thread was made about. They think it will ruin the non existant community if they have cross server lfg.

 

Interesting. I don't like it either, but since I won't use it I don't really care if other people do.

[Blistrich]

so even with companies the size of EA and Bioware, with the hundred million dollar budget they had and a current estimated 1.3 million subscriber base, a cross server LFG is still a "significant technological achievement"?

It's called patting yourself on the back for doing a **** job, and boy do they love to do just that.

[Ironcleaver]

The "mega" team made no secret that they wanted WoWs numbers. Currently there is only one model on how to achieve 10+ mill subs.

 

Right, they were after WoWs numbers - that said Bizzards counts everything as apples and apples... and that just leads to issues in numbers. Did they hit 10mil? sure I'll give it to them. Who is their biggest customer, China.. and you do understand that the way we buy and play, say WoW, here in the US is -not- the same way it's sold in China, right? Anyway. this is all besides the point I was trying to make... MY point was in not listening 100% to a single crowd of people that have only ever played one game and only ever want to play clones of said game.. This argument makes no sense since if they only want to play Clones, why not just play the original game? I won't debate with a WoW fanboy though... i'll just refer back to my #1 listed above.

 

Instant Gratification in TOR? Where? When I spam LFG for hours? This entire world is revolving around insta-grat tools more and more every day. You don't want insta-grat in your life? Don't use google. Don't use your computer in general. Throw your smart phone away. Don't text. Don't email. I can go on and on about the technological advances we've seen in just the last 10 years that revolve around insta-grat. The hypocracy surrounding the topic of Instant Gratification is ridiculous.

 

All argumentative fallacies.. back on point.. When a game is as easy as TOR is, there is no point to play it for very long, it has no "staying power". If that is what they want, that is fine, but they shouldn't act all surprised if their numbers drop off. I'm guess they wanted staying power though..

 

People are screaming for transfers and mergers, which they should, the game is streatched out over too many servers... The issue is, once they do get into that group and do the zone they desprately want, there is nothing to do after. The game is designed and built around people playing alts as endgame - and many people are finding out that "alts" is a pretty lossy endgame mechanic.

 

again, just my opinion.

[Darkulous]

Right, they were after WoWs numbers - that said Bizzards counts everything as apples and apples... and that just leads to issues in numbers. Did they hit 10mil? sure I'll give it to them. Who is their biggest customer, China.. and you do understand that the way we buy and play, say WoW, here in the US is -not- the same way it's sold in China, right? Anyway. this is all besides the point I was trying to make... MY point was in not listening 100% to a single crowd of people that have only ever played one game and only ever want to play clones of said game.. This argument makes no sense since if they only want to play Clones, why not just play the original game? I won't debate with a WoW fanboy though... i'll just refer back to my #1 listed above.

 

I understand the China impact on WoW's numbers but nobody can tell me what those numbers are and what the rest (North America, UK) are as well. Give me a break down of WoW's subs by Region. Even if the N. American/UK numbers are just 4 million, that's still a hell of a lot better than any other MMO. My arguement is that the "mega" team targeted WoW's numbers but ignored how Blizz got those numbers and maintain them. And yes, WoW is back down to 10.2 mill (OH GOD!) but the new expansion, as always, will bring it back up to 12+.

 

 

All argumentative fallacies.. back on point.. When a game is as easy as TOR is, there is no point to play it for very long, it has no "staying power". If that is what they want, that is fine, but they shouldn't act all surprised if their numbers drop off. I'm guess they wanted staying power though..

 

People are screaming for transfers and mergers, which they should, the game is streatched out over too many servers... The issue is, once they do get into that group and do the zone they desprately want, there is nothing to do after. The game is designed and built around people playing alts as endgame - and many people are finding out that "alts" is a pretty lossy endgame mechanic.

 

again, just my opinion.

 

I agree with what you said there. The failure in this game goes beyond just the grouping problem.

[Holden_Dissent]

I understand the China impact on WoW's numbers but nobody can tell me what those numbers are and what the rest (North America, UK) are as well. Give me a break down of WoW's subs by Region. Even if the N. American/UK numbers are just 4 million, that's still a hell of a lot better than any other MMO. My arguement is that the "mega" team targeted WoW's numbers but ignored how Blizz got those numbers and maintain them. And yes, WoW is back down to 10.2 mill (OH GOD!) but the new expansion, as always, will bring it back up to 12+.

 

 

 

 

I agree with what you said there. The failure in this game goes beyond just the grouping problem.

 

Once upon a time it was 4m. Then Cataclysm, Rift, Tera, SWTOR happened.

 

They lost like 1.5m accounts.

 

You can't count China subs since you never know when the account time has expired. You buy the game for $5 and then you're a sub for life.

[Datku]

It worries me that the devs have no clue and by the time they do finally see/accept all the clues smacking them in their faces it will be too late to act on what should have been obvious months before but they were too lazy to work on. LFG is a good idea...server only LFG with current population issues is only going to fail massively and cost them even more subs. By the time they do finally figure it out there just wont be enough people around to save anything.

[Ironcleaver]

I understand the China impact on WoW's numbers but nobody can tell me what those numbers are and what the rest (North America, UK) are as well. Give me a break down of WoW's subs by Region. Even if the N. American/UK numbers are just 4 million, that's still a hell of a lot better than any other MMO. My arguement is that the "mega" team targeted WoW's numbers but ignored how Blizz got those numbers and maintain them. And yes, WoW is back down to 10.2 mill (OH GOD!) but the new expansion, as always, will bring it back up to 12+.

 

I agree with what you said there. The failure in this game goes beyond just the grouping problem.

 

Yeah I do agree with you on both accounts. We're on the same page.

 

The only real reliable number I can go on is Box sales in the US, which was under 3mil for the last WoW expantion - which is still awesome and any company would be happy to have those numbers.

 

It would be interesting if WoW launched this year.. and in it's place it was competing with, like, EQ or something.. Would WoW succeed? It's an interesting question with only speculation as an answer.. but always still fun to ask.

 

[note: ive never owned a cell phone and/or smart phone, no ipad, or iphone, no texting anything, no twitter, and only use my land line once a week or so... but yeah, point taken. ]

[WhatVVB]

Ugh. I can understand the reasoning behind not talking about content/ideas that are currently being worked on, but this is getting ridiculous. I know they are working hard on trying to improve the game, but it feels like nothing is being done. There is only so much, "we have some great ideas being worked on" I can take before it feels like nothing more than a smoke screen for, "we have no idea what to do."

 

World PvP?

"We have great ideas in the works! Stay tuned!"

 

Flashpoints/Ops?

"Great ideas people! Fantastic! It will blow your mind!"

 

Space combat?

"Ideas of mind-shattering awesomeness! Soon!"

 

Crafting?

"Improvements coming. Soon. Promise."

 

Events?

"Yeah! Events! Soon! *Maybe really soon* Ho-ho!"

 

Legacy?

"More stuff! SOON!"

 

What have I gotten from this article? Uh... We can buy the legacy stuff that is actually useful and really should have been in 1.2. Other than that, more stuff... SOON!

 

I really like this game, but there is a definite lack of 'hope' in future content. There is nothing to look forward to. Ranked PvP is the only thing I know of. Even if it was pushed back, I would rather be disappointed in something being pushed back than disappointed for having nothing to look forward to.

Edited May 23, 2012 by WhatVVB

[Temad]

Cross server will be a feature in LFG Finder on release.

 

The Devs will not be given a choice, the guys above them who just fired a bunch of people will make it so.

 

You are deluding yourself to think otherwise after the latest answer opening the door. That answer was their way of breaking the ice on what they know is going to happen.

 

Don't worry yourselves, when it gets here, LFG will be X-Server.

[Mallorik]

It worries me that the devs have no clue and by the time they do finally see/accept all the clues smacking them in their faces it will be too late to act on what should have been obvious months before but they were too lazy to work on. LFG is a good idea...server only LFG with current population issues is only going to fail massively and cost them even more subs. By the time they do finally figure it out there just wont be enough people around to save anything.

 

Why do people think server transfers will be enough to help a same server lfg tool? even if all the servers were full it would not work.

 

Am i missing something that the swtor devs and everyone else who thinks a same server tool will work sees?

 

Cross server lfg ques in wow and rift are tolerable but for a dps they are usually no where near "quick"

 

Swtor has smaller server population caps than wow or rift, same server lfg did not work for them.

 

Swtor does not have dual specs to help fill healer and tank spots, rift and wow both do and it was not enough for same server.

 

Swtor only has 2 spots in each group for dps, wow and rift had 3 and que times were still too long for same server lfg.

 

Swtor currently has horrible gear progression that makes doing hm flash points pretty pointless for anyone that raids at all, i know they are putting some incentives in to try to get people to use the lfg tool but it wont change the fundamental problem of gear progression. Rift and wow both have heroic instances tied to their gear progression.

 

Thats what i see when i wonder if a same server lfg tool will work in swtor.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Mallorik

[DizzD]

Cross server will be a feature in LFG Finder on release.

 

The Devs will not be given a choice, the guys above them who just fired a bunch of people will make it so.

 

You are deluding yourself to think otherwise after the latest answer opening the door. That answer was their way of breaking the ice on what they know is going to happen.

 

Don't worry yourselves, when it gets here, LFG will be X-Server.

 

If you believe this I have a Nigerian lottery ticket to sell you.

[rickyard]

Just a thought... if most players were the ULTRA DEFENDERS NO THIS IS GREAT AS IT IS kind... and so the game didn't need changes as it came from launch...what would have they upgraded? What would they have for 1.3????

 

All the things they are giving us SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE FROM THE BEGINNING!

 

The ability to choose a race NOT RELATED to class OR allegiance? SHOULD HAVE BEEN THIS WAY

Stability issues?? PATCHING?? EVERY videogame offers this today, not just MMO's.

The ability to upgrade CRAFTING objects? Should be there too!

Just feel like they are doing slightly adjustments, but nothing that really change the game, and when it is something that changes lots of things (just like this LFG Tool) i feel like it should be there from the beginning.

[Temad]

If you believe this I have a Nigerian lottery ticket to sell you.

 

So because you can't see the progression, I must be gullible.

 

Bioware's stance on LFG Finder.

 

1. Early Beta - No, just no.

 

2. Beta - Well, we are looking at it but for now, we have no plans for a LFG finder.

 

3. After Launch - Well, we certainly screwed that up, give us 6 months or so and we will give you one but NO X-SERVER PERIOD. We really mean it!

 

4. 1.3 update - Well, we are really proud of ourselves for producing something most other MMOs have already and while we would prefer it not be X-Sever if possible, we are keeping our options open.

 

5. June/July - Well, its ready and will be released with 1.3...while we wanted to keep it single server the issues surrounding population and transfers have forced our hand on the X-Server realm for LFG Finder. While we know a segment of our player base will be unhappy with our decision, we had to take the entire player base into consideration with our choice.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Temad

[Ironcleaver]

I think one of the greatest advances the genre we could see in the future would be the removal of the the "character" from the "server". Break this connection. Setup Characters so that once we log in, we select a character then a server to play on. There would, of course, be new challanges to over come but the end result would allow people to play on whatever server they wished and change on the fly (like changing chat rooms).

 

Sure populations would fluxuate but commuities would be formed by the players themselves, and if they need to, they can relocate. Sometimes it's good to play on a dead server if you are looking for a named mob but other times you want to have a ton of people around if you are trying to sell something. Allow people the freedon to fluxuate between servers at will and communities will be formed regardless.

 

It's 2012, the chains that bind "a character" to "a server" should be broken.

 

Anyway, just a thought.

[joeypesci]

so even with companies the size of EA and Bioware, with the hundred million dollar budget they had and a current estimated 1.3 million subscriber base, a cross server LFG is still a "significant technological achievement"?

I would expect that kind of reply from a smaller company, but am suprised to hear it from Bioware.

 

Ill admit I dont know much about server technology, but its interesting to find out that a cross server LFG is apparently that hard to set up. Guess we take alot for granted when we play a game like WoW that has that level of superior resources at hand which this games developers obviously dont.

 

True. Even GW2 has cross server world PvP which is looking and playing good in the BETA.

[MasterKayote]

Nice, kudos to the Bioware team for actually thinking about it rather than WoWing it up. Glad to see the design team values its community for once trying to fix the actual problem rather than covering it up with a dirty patch. As with the damage meters .... good job, yet again!

[HeawiNobal]

I think one of the greatest advances the genre we could see in the future would be the removal of the the "character" from the "server". Break this connection. Setup Characters so that once we log in, we select a character then a server to play on. There would, of course, be new challanges to over come but the end result would allow people to play on whatever server they wished and change on the fly (like changing chat rooms).

 

Sure populations would fluxuate but commuities would be formed by the players themselves, and if they need to, they can relocate. Sometimes it's good to play on a dead server if you are looking for a named mob but other times you want to have a ton of people around if you are trying to sell something. Allow people the freedon to fluxuate between servers at will and communities will be formed regardless.

 

It's 2012, the chains that bind "a character" to "a server" should be broken.

 

Anyway, just a thought.

I like this idea...

[DarthOvertone]

Here are the bits from the article of interest to me:

 

Parallel to this change we're rolling out a significant reduction in the cost to extract mods from an item.

 

This is a relief, except I've already blown ridiculous amounts of credits remodding the Augmented WH gear on my Main. Oh well, better late than never. At least other peeps won't have to suffer the ridiculous mod extraction costs in the future.

 

and some visual improvements to a few slow abilities and abilities that still aren't quite mirrored cross-faction (including Shock and Project)

 

Finally. I hope Force Wave is also included.

 

The Augment stations should be handy for my Imp. I'm actually happy to see those. Now I don't have to create a Synthweaving Imp alt.

 

The rest of the article is of almost no interest to me though. Pretty much nothing for PvP, not even a new WZ. I Haven't done a FP since before 1.1. Haven't done an Ops since before 1.1.5 so I could care less about the LFG tool. It doesn't look to me like there is much new content coming in 1.3 aside from new schematics, and we have to wait until August for this?

 

Patch 1.3 appears to be pretty underwhelming, to say the least.

Edited May 23, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Mallorik]

So because you can't see the progression, I must be gullible.

 

Bioware's stance on LFG Finder.

 

1. Early Beta - No, just no.

 

2. Beta - Well, we are looking at it but for now, we have no plans for a LFG finder.

 

3. After Launch - Well, we certainly screwed that up, give us 6 months or so and we will give you one but NO X-SERVER PERIOD. We really mean it!

 

4. 1.3 update - Well, we are really proud of ourselves for producing something most other MMOs have already and while we would prefer it not be X-Sever if possible, we are keeping our options open.

 

5. June/July - Well, its ready and will be released with 1.3...while we wanted to keep it single server the issues surrounding population and transfers have forced our hand on the X-Server realm for LFG Finder. While we know a segment of our player base will be unhappy with our decision, we had to take the entire player base into consideration with our choice.

 

I just think youre wrong because i dont believe the devs have completely removed their heads from where they have been keeping them. And even if they turned around today and said yes we want cross server lfg they wont have it done in time for 1.3.

 

Best case scenerio imo is, If the same server tool fails they realize it and get a x-server tool working before the servers need to be merged again.

 

With their attitude towards cross server and blind faith in same server, i dont believe they will even begin work on x server until its proven to them beyond a doubt that the same server tool failed.

[Temad]

The reason I think it will go in right away in 1.3 and not say 1.4 is that 1.3 won't go live until August. No chance not with the systems they are playing with (Transfers etc).

 

If 1.3 came out in June sure, that time line would probably force same server but I really have no faith in their ability to release the patch that brings transfers before August.

 

Just think about the bugs they release and the bugs that transfers are going to unleash. Epic doesn't begin to cover it.

 

[Etheric]

I'm ok with X-server but i'd like the toggle to be able to choose same sever if i wish. Choice is always a GOOD thing. I think it would be great to run an OP with people from my sever one night and the maybe run into them on fleet another and say " hey that was alot of fun the other night we should get together and do another sometime", with x-sever that conversation probably won't happen. Now if i happen to be on late at night and can't find a same sever run then i can un-check the box and run with people from other servers. LFG is a tool, like a hammer or screw driver, it can't be inherently evil.The way its used could be in poor form but don't go blamming the tool.