Kthx Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 No, that its not going to get better. That its only going to get worse. This might turn out to be the most expensive game failure in history. Putting aside the prediction of doom and failure for a moment... Expensive how? All indications are that EA has already made a positive return on its investment. Yes the costs were high, but the revenues were higher: What matters is the difference between the two. So what is the expense you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAincient Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 My understanding is that EA spent about 300M in R&D and then there are the ongoing running costs and R&D. Are we saying that EA has already recouped its 300M R&D investment, I would be very surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limibeans Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 SWTOR lost 25% by the end of 1st month 15% by month 4 for a total of 40% swtor currently has 1.3 million subscribers. Swtor has added 2 major content patches with a third m patch coming soon. Swtor has added bug fixes almost every week. Star wars is a major larger up then warhammer could ever be. Yeah there are some huge differences. Which is why this is closer to rift then war The thing you're forgetting is... SW:ToR keeps "re-releasing" all over the place. This causes a surge in subscriptions that will offset the numbers of actually lost. If 1 million people unsub, and the re-release the game again in EU/OZ/ASIA "versions" that will highly offset the loss of players on, lets say, the NA servers. I'm going to guess that there were 2.2 million (mostly) NA players on Dec 13 of last year. Right now, there are probably 1/10 of that actually still playing. Players have either migrated off, or quit, or rerolled. Then they release another launch version of the game in a different region. If they lose 1 million NA players in the first 3 months (they probably did) but 500,000 OZ's join, it only looks like they lost "500k subs". I can tell you one thing. If NA player numbers drop, so will the player numbers in Asia. Same reason why most players in WoW are in China. WoW has about the same number of actual players as SW:ToR did on launch, however, servers seem to dead now because actual players are no longer playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlem Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Putting aside the prediction of doom and failure for a moment... Expensive how? All indications are that EA has already made a positive return on its investment. Yes the costs were high, but the revenues were higher: What matters is the difference between the two. So what is the expense you are talking about? They pretty much broke even with the box sales, namingly the massive amounts of collectors editions & digital delux editions sold. The future development of the game is in question with the massive loss in sub revenue probably hampering their ability to maintain viable payroll for the continued development. Pure speculation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You keep saying that, but WAR grew for the first 4 to 5 months, it nosedived after that, but initially it grew despite its problems. SWTOR was definitely a more polished launch than WAR, but arguably WAR was a more complete game. Both struggled with RvR in the context of engine performance, but SWTOR is much worse, but SWTOR has now completely removed all RvR. Both struggled with PvP class balance, but SWTOR has serious problems with CC in PvP. So far SWTOR is getting more development though, but then that's the point of this thread, until now SWTOR had no lay offs, WAR has mass lay offs before the game even went Live. Thats a lie WAR did not grow for the first month at all. It peaked at 750k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyer Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If Stephen Reid has departed BW, then this is a bad thing, truly. If they've reduced the number of script writers, modelers, mechanics testers, etc, then I'd say it's a normal thing; they can't maintain the staff required to get the initial game together forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The thing you're forgetting is... SW:ToR keeps "re-releasing" all over the place. This causes a surge in subscriptions that will offset the numbers of actually lost. If 1 million people unsub, and the re-release the game again in EU/OZ/ASIA "versions" that will highly offset the loss of players on, lets say, the NA servers. Then they release another launch version of the game in a different region. If they lose 1 million NA players in the first 3 months (they probably did) but 500,000 , it only looks like they lost "500k subs". I can tell you ayer numbers drop, so will the player numbers in Asia. Same reason why most players in WoW are in China. WoW has about the same number of actual players as SW:ToR did on launch, however, servers seem to dead now because actual players are no longer playing. Yeah thats how its done. You dont thin wow has 12 million actual cucurrent players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Bioware: We are laying off bunch of people from SWTOR team Fanbois: Yaaaaaaaaaaaay, thats a GOOD thing! rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I know being realistic is not supported on this forum but I am going to try to be. Every MMO is going to take a lot more programmers at the beginning than it will to maintain and patch. To develop a game from the ground up takes years and a huge team of devs, programmers etc. The entire business model is based around not having to put the type of money in to the game after release as you did to release it. Also being realistic with a game like this where you can see populations dropping accross the board it is a PR nightmare to drop a large amount of staff before putting out the updates and features that you have been promising. Even if those people in no way were working on those updates it just looks bad and will be taken by the customer base as a slap in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) No, that its not going to get better. That its only going to get worse. This might turn out to be the most expensive game failure in history. I hope not, i really dont hope so. I hope someone with very very large shoes steps in and turns this table around, flips it upside down if they have too. The game itself was designed in such a way that i cant see it turning around for the better. The planets are too instanced and thus there is hardly any "open world" anything. Access to end game content is reached through Fleet, as is GTN, gear and the only viable community chat. This keeps players just glued to fleet waiting to eihter que for warzones or run flashpoints, this will always become really boring really quick. There is this entire universe out there but no reason to see any of it and its all just too much work to get there just to stand around alone doing absolutly nothing. No amount of warzones or new flashpoints will make up for the static lifeless world that we dont even experience, as long as people are just sitting on fleet, this game will have issues. I dont know how they can fix this problem. I enjoy all the other aspects of this game, its just there is no real virtual world and its more like a que hub for mini games. Edited May 23, 2012 by kirorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Guess all the haters and trolls was right after all.... oh give me a break, had people not actually listened to the people going all 'OMG OMG ALL FAIL' this would have been different. I'm serious. the more you browse these forums the more you dislike the game... even if you actually like it. when you .only. go online and never check the forums (or any news on the game) I can assure you that you have more fun. (especially someone like you who plays on the really packed servers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Wrong'o, lol. Those position were posted 8 weeks ago and are no longer available. Actually, only one is no longer available. The rest are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Bioware: We are laying off bunch of people from SWTOR team Fanbois: Yaaaaaaaaaaaay, thats a GOOD thing! rofl Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) The game itself was designed in such a way that i cant see it turning around for the better. The planets are too instanced and thus there is hardly any "open world" anything. Access to end game content is reached through Fleet, as is GTN, gear and the only viable community chat. This keeps players just glued to fleet waiting to eihter que for warzones or run flashpoints, this will always become really boring really quick. There is this entire universe out there but no reason to see any of it and its all just too much work to get there just to stand around alone doing absolutly nothing. Its WoW with SW skin with all its flaws and shortcomings. Unfortunately only way to "fix" it is to scrap it and redo most of it with models and systems without all flaws and sortcomings, aka, go away from WoW stuff and finally think for yourself for once, i dont believe theres noone competent and creative enough at BW Austin to not be able to do anything else but clone WoW. Where? Obviously you missed first 122465132 pages of this thread. oh give me a break, had people not actually listened to the people going all 'OMG OMG ALL FAIL' this would have been different. I'm serious. the more you browse these forums the more you dislike the game... even if you actually like it. when you .only. go online and never check the forums (or any news on the game) I can assure you that you have more fun. (especially someone like you who plays on the really packed servers) Ignorance is bliss! Edited May 23, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) oh give me a break, had people not actually listened to the people going all 'OMG OMG ALL FAIL' this would have been different. I'm serious. the more you browse these forums the more you dislike the game... even if you actually like it. when you .only. go online and never check the forums (or any news on the game) I can assure you that you have more fun. (especially someone like you who plays on the really packed servers) http://g3marketers.com/2011/09/does-peer-pressure-work-in-social-media/ this forum is a disgrace they are going to accuse bioware of heavy handed moderation anyway.. might as well tidy it up Edited May 23, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecanAndersen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 oh give me a break, had people not actually listened to the people going all 'OMG OMG ALL FAIL' this would have been different. I'm serious. the more you browse these forums the more you dislike the game... even if you actually like it. when you .only. go online and never check the forums (or any news on the game) I can assure you that you have more fun. (especially someone like you who plays on the really packed servers) Wrong, i DO like the game. Thats why i said i really hope someone with very large shoes steps in and turns things around. I don't form an opinion on other peoples experience nor comments. All im saying is, some hardcore MMO players "unlike my self" almost predicted events like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Vortex Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 oh give me a break, had people not actually listened to the people going all 'OMG OMG ALL FAIL' this would have been different. I'm serious. the more you browse these forums the more you dislike the game... even if you actually like it. when you .only. go online and never check the forums (or any news on the game) I can assure you that you have more fun. (especially someone like you who plays on the really packed servers) Couldn't have said it better myself. Really can't explain it the more I read the negativity on these forums the less I wan't to log in just in case there's a small chance they actually turn out to be right. I still log in and play every day (when I have time) and really don't want to see this game go the way of WAR, its the only mmo right now that actually interests me outside of the ones currently available and those in beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Obviously you missed first 122465132 pages of this thread. I see, you like hyperbole. Completely understood now! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Bioware: We are laying off bunch of people from SWTOR team Fanbois: Yaaaaaaaaaaaay, thats a GOOD thing! rofl Has anyone actually said anything like that, or are you just trying your best to keep up with the bandwagon? Edited May 23, 2012 by Trenter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaje Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Looks like our community manager was one of those let go Stephen Reid @Rockjaw I was one of those affected by layoffs at BioWare Austin yesterday. I got to build an amazing team while I was there, and miss them already. Expand Best of luck SR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escarrabutxaques Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, as long as Gabe, Georg and James remain in swtor team everything will be fine. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The level of denial in this thread is astounding. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. This type of behavior has been going on since forever. People brought up a ton of issues in the beta. "lolz, it's only beta" was copy/pasted from thread to thread. People complained about a ton of bugs. "The game is only X weeks/months old" they said. People complained about the poor engine optimization. "It must be you, I have no problems" we were told. People complained about the lack of features. "You have unrealistic expectations" they laughed. People complained about the content being paper thin. "Entitlement generation strikes again" they mocked. People complained about the meaningless crafting. "The crafting is revolutionary" they insisted. People complained about the linear design. "The linear design is a feature" they laughed. People complained about the server populations dropping. "Server population is growing" they claimed. People complained about the Ranked Warzone fiasco. "This was not a bait and switch" they argued. People complained about the direction of the game. "Nothing is wrong, the game is fine" they implored. People complained about the lack of open world PvP. "If you don't like it, leave" they ordered. People cited the drop in subs as proof that something was amiss. "The subs haven't dropped" they maintained. People cited other games that shared a similar path. "This game doesn't have those problems" they asserted. People cited layoffs as an indication of trouble. "Layoffs could be good for this game" they pleaded. People left the game in droves. "Where did everyone go?" they wondered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) http://g3marketers.com/2011/09/does-peer-pressure-work-in-social-media/ Lol wow, that study is so true. >.< Edited May 23, 2012 by ProsaicProse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Looks like our community manager was one of those let go Stephen Reid @Rockjaw I was one of those affected by layoffs at BioWare Austin yesterday. I got to build an amazing team while I was there, and miss them already. Expand Best of luck SR Well, we had our suspicions and now they are confirmed. Stephen seem like a really good bloke and he did a great job here. Very, very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Meanwhile, in Tera general chat - "The sad thing is, arguing with fanbois on the forums was more entertaining than their 300 million dollar single player MMO from 2008" hahaha.. the truth, it hurts!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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