Socializing in MMORPGs ... Nearing Extinction?

[gurugeorge]

Ghostcrawler, lead dev of WoW, mentioned that their Dungeon Finder halted a long time decline and stabilized their population. It is immensely popular and encouraged socializing, allowed players of all kinds to experience content Blizzard spent a lot of resources on creating, etc. They had to go cross-server because even their extremely healthy population You still have to account for time zone differences, differences in active player levels, participation, etc - so server groups got around those issues.

 

Basically there is plenty of precedence, and a reason why such LFG tools are now expected mechanisms in modern theme park MMOs.

 

Yes, but this is part of the problem. The automated cross-server tool was introduced as the solution to a problem. The problem is now that, for other MMOs, it has become an expected tool out of the box. It seems that BW underestimated how used people are to that kind of system (not just from WoW but many other MMOs now).

 

Nevertheless, for various reasons everyone has gone through ad nauseam, SWTOR probably does need one urgently now - not just PvP but PvE. SWTOR has a problem and if they don't want to merge servers because it would be too embarrassing, they need to do the only alternative thing that's going to pull the game out of decline. Sad, but necessary.

[Frostvein]

Hahah, so many old sounding people in here.

 

"Back in my day, you spent 30 min to an hour looking for a group. Then, you marched uphill both ways to get to a group of mobs that required 5 or 10 people to farm for XP, cause that's how it was. And if we died, you would lose hours worth of work either in XP or item, not to mention the corpse run. We didn't need any new fangled LFG tools or fancy schmancy quest givers. Kids today are so spoiled"

[GalacticKegger]

Or you're just old and out of touch. And as a side note, your comments regarding internet dating are profoundly ignorant.

With my generation a handshake meant something ... not so much any more. If that makes me old then I guess I'm old.

 

I've never needed a dating service (married 30 years), but I have friends who were too career minded to spend time dating and tried them out. All were let down because what they saw & read online wasn't necessarily what they got when they met. But the real question is this: if they lack the time to find a relationship themselves, where is the time going to come from to actually maintain one? Or is the dating service going to do that for them too?

 

They figured it out and have since decided to simply make time to socialize. Growing up it wasn't the kill, it was the thrill of the chase. Seems nowadays it's mostly about getting the quick kill, then getting to the next quick kill even quicker. Both work and play are fair game for it too. It's become so subtly camouflaged that the two are one big blur for some.

Edited May 21, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[bbates]

LFG = Accesable content

 

Guilds = Socializing

 

Fortunately modern MMO's have both of these features.

 

True that! I love hanging in vent and playing with my guild but Cross server LFG has kept me in games long after I would have quit if it wasn't there.

 

I work overnight's so I get home at a bout 4 am pst most people in my guild well they have normal jobs and have to be up so they are sleeping. Having the ability to hop on and alt and knock out content and dungeons with people while leveling at the click of a button is what I want. Sometimes you even meet some great people from your own server, sometimes I meet the same people from different servers and build relationships with them.

 

I just dont see a reason to limit any kind of tool to single server if your not on at peak times it basically makes it a worthless upgrade to someone like me.

 

Here is a great article on it from Force Junkies.

 

http://www.forcejunkies.com/2012/05/16/1-3-a-stepping-stone-to-x-server-group-finder/

[bbates]

Yes, but this is part of the problem. The automated cross-server tool was introduced as the solution to a problem. The problem is now that, for other MMOs, it has become an expected tool out of the box. It seems that BW underestimated how used people are to that kind of system (not just from WoW but many other MMOs now).

Nevertheless, for various reasons everyone has gone through ad nauseam, SWTOR probably does need one urgently now - not just PvP but PvE.

 

It's true Terra didn't have one as a new game and people started saying in Beta just like we did here that it was a wanted feature, well they got one in before launch and from what I have heard it's a very popular feature over there.

 

I know Rift originally tried to do a single server tool and it flopped. But they have an amazing LFG tool now. They have actually expanded on it in game by having things like instant adventures that just kind of port you to content. It's actually kind of cool initially I thought it would suck.

[Anathar]

being social is up to the person.

 

if you group with people and theyre being male reproductive organs or have any other undesirable personality traits then youre very likely to not wanna group.

 

there seems to be a growing problem with people online these days. its called "group think". one symptom of this behaviour is the group thinks its right just because theres more of them. and the other "one" gets blamed.. gets shunned.. gets voted out.. gets treated like fecal matter...and the rest still considers themselves to be good people. because they reassure themselves of it as still being part of the group after the other is gone.

 

this behaviour happens alot even when you arent grouped. try talking in tradechat in WoW. youll get trolled to no end (some people that behave that way in wow also do it in this game but with low pop their behaviour is amplified because it sticks out more..chat is either completely silent or someone trolls). even wow wasnt as bad as it is now till the "guild perks" were added in Cataclysm..then guilds and guilded players just went ape fecal-matter crazy.

 

personally this behaviour is why i dont socialize..its why i dont group. im just burned out on it..but i still like mmos and rpgs ..i just dont like the people.

 

its not "lfg" or "cross server" thats the problem..its people thats the problem.

 

the anonymity of the internet -- whether its same server or cross server -- allows some to forget themselves and the humanity of the person on the other end. people are reduced to the text you see instead of being people.

 

how many times have you been talking it up...then someone says something stupid...then says "dude its the internet". as if the internet is some autonomous malevolent being causing them to behave a certain way. theyre disconnected from their own behaviour and feel no responsibility.

 

im beginning to think the majority of people on the internet are suffering from borderline sociopathic disorder caused by spending too much time on the internet.

 

test to see:

scenario--someone speaks up saying they have a problem with the game and wanna chat about it.

 

your response:

 

a - youre empathetic and take part in the conversation. or just allow them to vent while you stay silent.

 

b - you get mad and dont want to chat about any problems. because according to you there are no problems. how dare someone else want to talk about something that bothers them? and you think your apathy is funny.

 

A is appropriate. B is sociopathic.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Anathar

[Vlaxitov]

The genre is dying out, in the west, if you cant see it your blind. To survive either MMO's will become smaller niche games or someone is going to have to "reinvent the wheel" so to speak because this trend of copycat-ism isnt working anymore.

 

The mistake or misnomer is believing that mmos were ever anything other than niche to begin with.

 

World of Warcraft is to mmos what Green Day is to punk rock music, a fluke sell out.

 

People claiming that "mmos have evolved" fail to realize that when something evolves, it becomes something else.

 

What were seeing is alot of people who refuse to accept they don't like mmos but buy them anyway, then plead for them to "evolve" into a type of game they would rather be playing.

[LeonBraun]

You picked the wrong game, Play Rift, one of the best communities Ive ever met, and Elder Scroll Online is also real MMO. This forum actually reflects alot of this game, full of individuals, theres nothing we agree, everyone just whines. This forum is honestly most hostile Ive ever seen, well full of radicalism.

 

First of all Rift is not a great game... Second, you must be on the wrong server or in the wrong guild. My server and guild are great.

 

Have not met a single person on my server yet that I've disliked.

[gregordunbar]

Do not judge the genre based on this game.

 

Bioware made a game that actually keeps people apart and seems to have wanted to go out of their way to prevent players from creating a community.

 

Crafing is horrible. With at least decent crafting you get people trading for materials and items and have a CHANCE for a player driven economy.

 

Role playing items/gear...you have to group to farm social level for these things....makes no sense at all.

 

No reason to be in towns or cantinas. No reason to be there, no hub, no reason to be social.

 

Gear. Its bland...there are no...cool items. I go do an instance or quest, no chance for something that looks sweet...no reason to go to a hub and show off my stuffs.

 

I could list a dozen other things but whats the point. The creative minds behind this game seem to have little to no knowledge of MMOs let alone RPGs. The game is anti-social because it was made that way. You can log into mostly dead F2P games like AoC and get far more chatter from the 6-12 people you stumble across in an hour than you may in this game for hours.

[Dekkau]

This is strange.... You sit at a computer alone in your home and think that interacting on a computer game has differing social values. Seriously, you need to get out more. Its a game.. play it how you want. Personally I treat those in a game as just pixel fodder. I reserve human interaction to the real life face to face, people I know and trust and value. In truth who cares what you do in a game. I don't interact with anyone in games on any meaningful level, never have. The thing I generally find myself hating most about games like this are the other players.... Seriously annoying. I also never use the LFG tool cus really all you finish up struggling with is LFG 'tools'. If someone asks for help, I'll generally help, but don't expect me to be sociable... it's just a game.

[Kalfear]

del;eted, not worth the infraction Edited May 21, 2012 by Kalfear

[Arkerus]

In SWTOR? Yes, by making the game a solo fest with a few sprinkled group quests and penalizing players for grouping for most quests they did kill socializing while leveling. It works much the same way for PvP or PvE. However, other games have figured out clever ways to induce grouping so it isn't dead, unless you are playing SWTOR.

 

You do realize WoW used the same formula right? That is considered by most to be an MMO.

[Arkerus]

This is strange.... You sit at a computer alone in your home and think that interacting on a computer game has differing social values. Seriously, you need to get out more. Its a game.. play it how you want. Personally I treat those in a game as just pixel fodder. I reserve human interaction to the real life face to face, people I know and trust and value. In truth who cares what you do in a game. I don't interact with anyone in games on any meaningful level, never have. The thing I generally find myself hating most about games like this are the other players.... Seriously annoying. I also never use the LFG tool cus really all you finish up struggling with is LFG 'tools'. If someone asks for help, I'll generally help, but don't expect me to be sociable... it's just a game.

 

A lot of folks here consider an MMO to be a forced group, forced social game. Then this genre went mainstream and they got mad. Seriously. Its not an insult. They don't like people not being social (and not being forced into a group all day) in their MMO.

[Kalfear]

You do realize WoW used the same formula right? That is considered by most to be an MMO.

 

Actually WOW took the popular formula and dumbed down the entire genre in every aspect

And they were rejected at the start by the MMORPG community

So Blizzard did the most amazing and intellegent thing they could do

 

They hired some celebrities to drop the WOW name on Letterman and Nickelodian and other media outlets

 

And what you know, they sky rocketted to amazing heights.

 

WOW was not and is not a good MMO.

WOW was brilliantly marketted and became a Culteral FAD

 

Like most fads, its popularity had almost nothing to do with quality of product (anyone remember trailer trash kids? Cabbage patch kids? Smurfs? ect. Terrible products (usually very cheaply made and pumped out in force to cash in on fad) that people ate up for a time)

 

WOW had one benefit, most of its players didnt know how bad it really was as it was their first MMORPG ever.

 

The problem is all these developers see WOWs 6-11-20 million and get greedy because they also have no clue on the genre, they copy WOW mechanics and crash and burn (just look at any product after WOW thats used their simplistic easy formula).

 

Thats the impact WOW made on the genre.

 

The next big thing in MMORPGs is the developer that understands there is lessons to learn from the Pre WOW era when quality and imagination brought in subs, not media commercials and celebs. And is able to NOT fall into the WOW trap of knuckle dragging simplisity.

 

But thats really nothing that hasnt been said by experienced players 10000s of times over. Its not earth shattering rocket science. Just fact of how the genre got to this point.

 

If WOW is your answer

You misread the question

[LeonBraun]

Today while I was leveling an alt through Tatooine, I noticed that half the people on Tatooine were from my guild alone, and my guild was lively and chatty.

 

We also did the 4 man heroic quest there as a guild and it was fun. Guilds and socializing can be as fun and as lively as we make it.

 

Likely one of the reasons why people are leaving and server pops are dropping is also because likely people aren't working to build community like this either.

 

Don't find it social? Find a better guild.

Edited May 21, 2012 by LeonBraun

[Shadezilla]

Hahah, so many old sounding people in here.

 

"Back in my day, you spent 30 min to an hour looking for a group. Then, you marched uphill both ways to get to a group of mobs that required 5 or 10 people to farm for XP, cause that's how it was. And if we died, you would lose hours worth of work either in XP or item, not to mention the corpse run. We didn't need any new fangled LFG tools or fancy schmancy quest givers. Kids today are so spoiled"

 

This post made my night.

[Arkerus]

Actually WOW took the popular formula and dumbed down the entire genre in every aspect

And they were rejected at the start by the MMORPG community

So Blizzard did the most amazing and intellegent thing they could do

 

They hired some celebrities to drop the WOW name on Letterman and Nickelodian and other media outlets

 

And what you know, they sky rocketted to amazing heights.

 

WOW was not and is not a good MMO.

WOW was brilliantly marketted and became a Culteral FAD

 

Like most fads, its popularity had almost nothing to do with quality of product (anyone remember trailer trash kids? Cabbage patch kids? Smurfs? ect. Terrible products (usually very cheaply made and pumped out in force to cash in on fad) that people ate up for a time)

 

WOW had one benefit, most of its players didnt know how bad it really was as it was their first MMORPG ever.

 

The problem is all these developers see WOWs 6-11-20 million and get greedy because they also have no clue on the genre, they copy WOW mechanics and crash and burn (just look at any product after WOW thats used their simplistic easy formula).

 

Thats the impact WOW made on the genre.

 

The next big thing in MMORPGs is the developer that understands there is lessons to learn from the Pre WOW era when quality and imagination brought in subs, not media commercials and celebs. And is able to NOT fall into the WOW trap of knuckle dragging simplisity.

 

But thats really nothing that hasnt been said by experienced players 10000s of times over. Its not earth shattering rocket science. Just fact of how the genre got to this point.

 

If WOW is your answer

You misread the question

 

With all due respect, you're just mad because they took what YOU thought the genre was:

 

1. Forced grouping

2. Difficult leveling experience

3. Forced late game content that required coordination beyond 10 or so people

 

 

And made it into an easily accessible genre.

 

If you can please give me the exact definition of an MMO and prove that games like WoW and TOR are NOT MMOs, then I will gladly accept your "theory".

 

Thing is, you can't give me the exact definition of an MMO.

[gregordunbar]

If you can please give me the exact definition of an MMO and prove that games like WoW and TOR are NOT MMOs, then I will gladly accept your "theory".

 

Thing is, you can't give me the exact definition of an MMO.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

 

That is an exact definition and thus...any game online that is played by a lot of people is an MMO.

 

Quake, Unreal Tournament...they are MMOs.

 

Everything is an MMO. Thus anything called an MMO is an MMO. that farming game on facebook, its an MMO too because the farms are persistant and can be view as a "world" and many people play it! Yeah, we proved TOR is an MMO because of a techicality and not by its merits!

 

WE WIN!

 

Its so easy to deflect from actual points being given, thank you Johnny Cochran!

[Mallorik]

I would play a new mmo with forced grouping, a really long leveling curve and death penealties. As long as the end game content was way more challenging that any other mmo out now.

 

And i think alot of people would, when people starting talking,

 

1st gamer bro- "well im in the top raid guild in wow"

 

2nd gamer bro-"lol @wow i raid in (blah blah noob A#$ R#$%^) game. wow is for noobs.

 

It would get enough subs to get by, and wouldnt need alot of content because you could make it so hard that hardly anyone can get through it! like the old days!

 

Well atleast that has a better chance of happening than swtor has developing a community.

[Nyla]

I would play a new mmo with forced grouping, a really long leveling curve and death penealties. As long as the end game content was way more challenging that any other mmo out now.

 

And i think alot of people would, when people starting talking,

 

1st gamer bro- "well im in the top raid guild in wow"

 

2nd gamer bro-"lol @wow i raid in (blah blah noob A#$ R#$%^) game. wow is for noobs.

 

It would get enough subs to get by, and wouldnt need alot of content because you could make it so hard that hardly anyone can get through it! like the old days!

 

Well atleast that has a better chance of happening than swtor has developing a community.

 

It's sure hard to develop a community when people that want a completely different game than this one (despite what devs said) are still here months after launch.

[Frostvein]

I would play a new mmo with forced grouping, a really long leveling curve and death penealties. As long as the end game content was way more challenging that any other mmo out now.

 

And i think alot of people would, when people starting talking,

 

1st gamer bro- "well im in the top raid guild in wow"

 

2nd gamer bro-"lol @wow i raid in (blah blah noob A#$ R#$%^) game. wow is for noobs.

 

It would get enough subs to get by, and wouldnt need alot of content because you could make it so hard that hardly anyone can get through it! like the old days!

 

Well atleast that has a better chance of happening than swtor has developing a community.

 

Eve is like that, you should check it out.

[GalacticKegger]

Hahah, so many old sounding people in here.

 

"Back in my day, you spent 30 min to an hour looking for a group. Then, you marched uphill both ways to get to a group of mobs that required 5 or 10 people to farm for XP, cause that's how it was. And if we died, you would lose hours worth of work either in XP or item, not to mention the corpse run. We didn't need any new fangled LFG tools or fancy schmancy quest givers. Kids today are so spoiled"

Hehe. Ah yes ... youth. Just wait until you live long enough for transgressions to come back and haunt you. Edited May 21, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Mallorik]

It's sure hard to develop a community when people that want a completely different game than this one (despite what devs said) are still here months after launch.

 

Point out to me where i said i want this game to be like that, they are two different kinds of games, one is a hard core game that is fun for the sense of achievement, this one is a fun game to play for a couple of hours a week. I would play both kinds of games.

 

Eve is like that, you should check it out.

tried eve when it was kind of new, really did not care for it at all, i love my space games but im more of a freeespace/wing commander guy.

[Frostvein]

Hehe. Ah yes ... youth. Just wait until you live long enough for transgressions to come back and haunt you.

 

You assume too much. Let's just say I was old enough to have the disposable income to have participated in those games who had the mechanics I mentioned.

[GalacticKegger]

You assume too much. Let's just say I was old enough to have the disposable income to have participated in those games who had the mechanics I mentioned.

No assumptions at all except that aging is inevitable & silence can't always be bought.