Beldrew Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I understand the inclination to avoid the massive amounts of negative feedback you received with 1.2. I understand that you are not inclined to give details in fear of reprising that PR disaster. That being said. THIS is not enough. It is not enough to remove rated WZ's and say NOTHING about them for more than a month. It is not enough to kill your ONLY world pvp and then just pretend it never existed. Remember when you told us you were "reimagining" Illum? How's that going? It is not enough to tell us "we will tell you something soon". It is not enough to respond to the population issues on 99% of your servers by simply saying "soon". I am not sure I understand who is the person making these decisions. Things are collapsing, your roll out of 1.2 was a disaster... it is not enough to merely be seen to not be lying to your population by virtue of utter silence. You need to give your community something. At some point execution becomes more important than adhering to ritual silence in fear of being wrong. I play on HoG... from what I understand one of your more "populated" pvp servers. At primetime we are lucky to top 30 people on repub fleet. You're game is dying... because THIS is no longer enough. Do something. Say something other than "soon". It probably won't come fast enough at this point anyway, but at least you will have tried rather than fading away to nothing by virtue of fear induced paralyzing silence. Patience is all well and good... but you need to deliver SOMETHING. The current state of this game is an insult to those you expect to pay for it. Do something. Edited May 18, 2012 by Beldrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Why do you have to pretend that you represent the "player base"? Why not just state your opinion (preferably in one of the existing threads)? I am sure some agree with you, but you certainly don't represent *my* opinion. Edited May 18, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKirin Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 What is enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediZenn Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I understand the inclination to avoid the massive amounts of negative feedback you received with 1.2. I understand that you are not inclined to give details in fear of reprising that PR disaster. That being said. THIS is not enough. It is not enough to remove rated WZ's and say NOTHING about them for more than a month. It is not enough to kill your ONLY world pvp and then just pretend it never existed. Remember when you told us you were "reimagining" Illum? How's that going? It is not enough to tell us "we will tell you something soon". It is not enough to respond to the population issues on 99% of your servers by simply saying "soon". I am not sure I understand who is the person making these decisions. Things are collapsing, your roll out of 1.2 was a disaster... it is not enough to merely be seen to not be lying to your population by virtue of utter silence. You need to give your community something. At some point execution becomes more important than adhering to ritual silence in fear of being wrong. I play on HoG... from what I understand one of your more "populated" pvp servers. At primetime we are lucky to top 30 people on repub fleet. You're game is dying... because THIS is no longer enough. Do something. Say something other than "soon". It probably won't come fast enough at this point anyway, but at least you will have tried rather than fading away to nothing by virtue of fear induced paralyzing silence. No game company in the WORLD posts the kinda updates you are demanding from BW. Standard policy for nearly all games is to not talk about anything until its officially going to be included as part of a patch. The reason for this is simple. If you promise something, then can't deliver, everyone is MORE upset. See 1.2 Ranked Warzones as proof. They announced it, then had to cut it, everyone (including yourself), throws a hissy fit. They are trying to avoid that mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Why do you have to pretend that you represent the "player base"? Why not just state your opinion (preferably in one of the existing threads)? I am sure some agree with you, but you certainly don't represent *my* opinion. Ego. Clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beldrew Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 No game company in the WORLD posts the kinda updates you are demanding from BW. Standard policy for nearly all games is to not talk about anything until its officially going to be included as part of a patch. The reason for this is simple. If you promise something, then can't deliver, everyone is MORE upset. See 1.2 Ranked Warzones as proof. They announced it, then had to cut it, everyone (including yourself), throws a hissy fit. They are trying to avoid that mistake again. I didn't throw a hissy fit. I got it. Wasn't ready, couldn't roll it out. Was handled extremely poorly (you should know better than to wait until the last second if there is even a HINT that a delay is coming). But I was patient. Like I said (several times because I assumed the apologists would need to be bashed over the head with it), at some point it isn't enough to just sit their in silence for fear of being wrong. You need to deliver something. Should they not be embarrassed that something that was so close to being in 1.2 but got pulled is still so far from being ready more than a month later that they are too paralyzed by fear of being wrong to say anything about it? My point isn't that they should have done 1.2 differently. My point is it is no longer enough to just be "working on it". If they expect people to pay for a game that was, for instance, advertised as having an open world pvp planet, at some point after 3 months they need to actually deliver it. If I behaved this way with MY clients they would have fired me long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuckaLukaum Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Overreact much? A "disaster?" Even without rated warzones, 1.2 added a lot to a game that is still only 6 months out of the gate. The hyperbole in your post is unbelievable. I read all these same posts, about all these same issues, on the SWG forums for years and, just as in this case, they all turned out to be greatly exaggerated. Every single MMO in the world has these exact kinds of posts you're making on their forums. Every one of them. Every MMO is the worst MMO ever made and is going out of business tomorrow, except for that one over there... but you go the forum of that one over there, and read the same crap. Get over it. These demands and tantrums and threats and doomsaying threads are childish. Don't like it, don't play it. Bioware will not miss you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Januaria Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 To the OP: Yours is a very well-composed, coherent, articulate thread. Huzzah to you sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Why do you have to pretend that you represent the "player base"? Why not just state your opinion (preferably in one of the existing threads)? I am sure some agree with you, but you certainly don't represent *my* opinion. Yeah. He's not representing me very well either. I call for a vote of No Confidence in he who speaks for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beldrew Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Ego. Clearly. Why exactly are grammar and spelling capitalized in your sig? That is poor grammar my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidatwood Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Seriously guy. Is this your first mmo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediZenn Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I didn't throw a hissy fit. I got it. Wasn't ready, couldn't roll it out. Was handled extremely poorly (you should know better than to wait until the last second if there is even a HINT that a delay is coming). But I was patient. Like I said (several times because I assumed the apologists would need to be bashed over the head with it), at some point it isn't enough to just sit their in silence for fear of being wrong. You need to deliver something. Should they not be embarrassed that something that was so close to being in 1.2 but got pulled is still so far from being ready more than a month later that they are too paralyzed by fear of being wrong to say anything about it? My point isn't that they should have done 1.2 differently. My point is it is no longer enough to just be "working on it". If they expect people to pay for a game that was, for instance, advertised as having an open world pvp planet, at some point after 3 months they need to actually deliver it. If I behaved this way with MY clients they would have fired me long ago. If your job was to provide a product for your clients, and your clients spent all day calling you to complain about how long its taking you to provide that product and demanded you sit on the phone with them explaining why you are not providing that product...how much work would you accomplish? Let'em work, they are rolling out content pretty darn fast, if you aren't patient enough to wait for it, find something else to do with your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beldrew Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 These demands and tantrums and threats and doomsaying threads are childish. Don't like it, don't play it. Bioware will not miss you. Not every person making demands of a company they pay is being irrational or doomsaying. It's funny, I remember these exact same responses on the forums for WAR. Head over there and ask how their game is doing. BW will at some point start missing some of the money they are losing. YOU may not think so, but then I am guessing you don't have the foggiest idea how to run a viable enterprise. Sometimes people who play mmo's for a decade or so have a pretty good handle on how the career arcs of these games work. I would say remember this conversation in a few months, but I am guessing, cognitive dissonance being what it is, you will convince yourself you were right regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beldrew Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Seriously guy. Is this your first mmo? Nope. Started with NWN back in the day. I've seen successes and failures and played both. Tell me... which do YOU think this is so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avicii Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 The real issue is the population and the fact that some people cant even get a WZ pop. That is out right ****** and I have sympathy for those players. This does need to be addressed cause people are dropping subs due to it and asking them to wait a month or till whenever I dont believe is a solution unless they can provide clear and informative details. The more people that leave angry the more likely they wont come back, I dont want this game to be underpopulated I want it to flourish and for people that like the game to stay, but if they cant get WZs or groups to do what they enjoy they dont have many choices. It's kinda sad to see this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Nope. Started with NWN back in the day. NWN is not an MMO. NWN is a RPG with a multiplayer option. Edit: Just realized you may have referred to AOL Neverwinter Nights, but that's not what most people think of when they see "NWN", especially on a BioWare forum. Edited May 18, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I understand the inclination to avoid the massive amounts of negative feedback you received with 1.2. I understand that you are not inclined to give details in fear of reprising that PR disaster. That being said. THIS is not enough. It is not enough to remove rated WZ's and say NOTHING about them for more than a month. It is not enough to kill your ONLY world pvp and then just pretend it never existed. Remember when you told us you were "reimagining" Illum? How's that going? It is not enough to tell us "we will tell you something soon". It is not enough to respond to the population issues on 99% of your servers by simply saying "soon". I am not sure I understand who is the person making these decisions. Things are collapsing, your roll out of 1.2 was a disaster... it is not enough to merely be seen to not be lying to your population by virtue of utter silence. You need to give your community something. At some point execution becomes more important than adhering to ritual silence in fear of being wrong. I play on HoG... from what I understand one of your more "populated" pvp servers. At primetime we are lucky to top 30 people on repub fleet. You're game is dying... because THIS is no longer enough. Do something. Say something other than "soon". It probably won't come fast enough at this point anyway, but at least you will have tried rather than fading away to nothing by virtue of fear induced paralyzing silence. Patience is all well and good... but you need to deliver SOMETHING. The current state of this game is an insult to those you expect to pay for it. Do something. ^This is well written. OP while I don't agree with all your points, I do appriciate your candor. I am sorry that you have been personally attacked by those that don't agree with you. Don't loose heart. Maybe BW will listen. But the deafening silence ( check dev tracker lately compared to pre-1.2) speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengatron Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 If I behaved this way with MY clients they would have fired me long ago. Since you are a client of BW for this game, why don't you fire them (quit paying them)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 NWN is not an MMO. NWN is a RPG with a multiplayer option. Edit: Just realized you may have referred to AOL Neverwinter Nights, but that's not what most people think of when they see "NWN", especially on a BioWare forum. He is talking about the NWN MMO. Google for the win! Neverwinter Nights was the first multiplayer online role-playing game to display graphics, and ran from 1991 to 1997 on AOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canarith Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Nope. Started with NWN back in the day. I've seen successes and failures and played both. Tell me... which do YOU think this is so far? Considering that this game has more subs than any other MMO other than WoW, I would say that probably qualifies as a success . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Flame Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Since you are a client of BW for this game, why don't you fire them (quit paying them)? So, You have a client that cares for Your product and your company and he os teling You that you are doing mistakes....and Your solution is saying "well, leave and stop paying" instead of trying TO keep that customer? That not only bad management but also idiotic. I wonder what would you say if Apple replied TO their customers "Bugs in iPhone. Screw You, don't buy more stuff from us"....... Lol. The OP might have been a bit dramatic but he does have quite a few valid points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Januaria Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 So well-said that this thread has to be bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdob Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 You do not speak for me either. I'm happy with what they've accomplished in 6 months and I'm sure they are learning everyday. They realize they made a mistake by opening new servers at launch due to player demand, and they are adjusting. They realize that 1.2 was way to ambitious and are adjusting. They know finding a group is difficult and they are adjusting. I will be happy once LFG is released, and it sounds like you will be happy once they fix Ranked/World PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fhrosty Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I did not think 1.2 was a "disaster". No one single person in this community represents "the community". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Why do you have to pretend that you represent the "player base"? Why not just state your opinion (preferably in one of the existing threads)? I am sure some agree with you, but you certainly don't represent *my* opinion. He represents mine and I'm part of the "player base". Good post! The current state of PvP bothers me more than any other issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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