SWTOR - A New MMO players perspective

[ISTrick]

Before SWTOR, I had previously only played Guild Wars 1 (for about 2 weeks..then got bored as hell) and WoW (for about 1 week, but at that point I was too busy with work to get into it) - so it's fair to say i'm new to the genre.

 

I really enjoy The Old Republic - the stories are great, the social aspect (Guild / Chat / Grouping / PvP) is awesome and the gameplay is fresh and new to me.. far more strategic and skill based than I thought previously before playing MMOs proper.

 

The constant comparisons to WoW may be totally valid, I wouldn't really know having never got passed the first bit in that game (and it being in 2007 when I tried it.. bad memory lol), so having so many abilities to tap into during battle, and so many mechanics to learn (resolve/stuns/mez/snares/healing/aoe etc) has been a real eye opener for me.. so much fun.

 

I traditionally have been a solid RPG gamer through and through (first RPG being Space Quest II in 1987), so some of these techniques have some cross over features, but the real time action and need for serious tactical thinking has been a great discovery for me. I am also a pretty big Star Wars fan, but I must say this game has made me a far deeper Star Wars lover - after playing the game for a couple months, I have devoured books, the newly released blu-rays and CW episodes with new found vigor.. and I couldn't be happier. The story based gameplay that I love from single player RPGs such as Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Knights of the Old Republic is still in-tact in SWTOR, along with a new style of gaming that has really opened my eyes to why people love MMOs (PvP especially... I didn't think I would dig it.. but it's really grown on me!).

 

I get the feeling that a lot of the negativity on the boards is generated by 2 things - expectations and server population.

Expectation for a re-invention of the genre by long-time WoW players seems to be a key aspect of complaints, but to a new MMO player, this argument is moot as we never had the first base of comparison/expectation to begin with.. so life is good in that respect. The other topic that is permiating the threads is server population, and this I can understand - I'm on Dalborra (Asia-Pacific Server - Very High Pop) and at very off-peak hours it is nigh on impossible to group for some things on some planets.. .I can only imagine it's like this all the time for low-pop server players.. which would totally suck. I hope Bioware get their act together and make this a very high priority to get done ASAP as it is painfully obvious that servers need to be either merged or transfered in full/shut-down, even from the outside looking in - I feel for those suffering due to this delay.

 

Overall, I am loving the Star Wars : The Old Republic gaming experience, and i'm in for the long haul... look forward to the new content, stories and socialising down the road : The Force will remain strong with this one. :)

[ISTrick]

Thanks mate - glad to be here.

 

Now, back to PvP.. something I thought I would hate, but have come to love (it's always nice to discover new things, right?)

[Maigrey]

Anyway OP, since you haven't played MMOs, you would be unaware of this, but I will let you know, that there is always a special place for your first MMO love, and you are experiencing that.

 

For me it was Star Wars Galaxies, there will always be a special place in my heart for that original game.

 

After playing many, many more MMOs I still feel that the potential of SWG was unparalleled, however, out of the 10+ MMOs i have played, I must say world of warcraft is by far the best, but after so many years of playing it like a job, it gets old, and you move on to other things hoping to find that next great game. SWToR had a ton of potential, but the longer it goes without getting to where it needs to be, the less likely that it will ever see its full potential.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Ellvaan
trolling accusation (Pm'd)

[TalkingDinosaur]

Anyway OP, since you haven't played MMOs, you would be unaware of this, but I will let you know, that there is always a special place for your first MMO love, and you are experiencing that.

 

For me it was Star Wars Galaxies, there will always be a special place in my heart for that original game.

 

After playing many, many more MMOs I still feel that the potential of SWG was unparalleled, however, out of the 10+ MMOs i have played, I must say world of warcraft is by far the best, but after so many years of playing it like a job, it gets old, and you move on to other things hoping to find that next great game. SWToR had a ton of potential, but the longer it goes without getting to where it needs to be, the less likely that it will ever see its full potential.

My first MMO was SWG and boy do I regret it every time I play MMO's. What a way to enter the MMO genre. SWG by far disgusted me from MMO's for about 5 years (seriously) Before the memory of it faded and I got back into the MMO genre. It was beauty to my eyes when I saw it was shutting down and I got free 45 days since I had an account (though it was inactive) during the hack attack in spring 2011. I Saw the game's final moments and a tear shed from my eye not for sympathy, but from seeing an abomination of a Star Wars game finally thrown in the trash. It was beautiful.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Ellvaan

[Sarfux]

people dont like it because it's not "the norm"

 

story based, slow, and you are supposed to sit back, relax take your time and FULLY immerse yourself replayability is through the ROOF..for me anyways. Me treatz it wike kotor infinite hehehehehehe

 

[Sarfux]

My first MMO was SWG and boy do I regret it every time I play MMO's. What a way to enter the MMO genre. SWG by far disgusted me from MMO's for about 5 years (seriously) Before the memory of it faded and I got back into the MMO genre. It was beauty to my eyes when I saw it was shutting down and I got free 45 days since I had an account (though it was inactive) during the hack attack in spring 2011. I Saw the game's final moments and a tear shed from my eye not for sympathy, but from seeing an abomination of a Star Wars game finally thrown in the trash. It was beautiful.

 

omg...ME EXACTLY! are you my clone?

 

AMEN!

[Cerion]

Great post, OP! You'll be happy to know that there are some experienced MMO players like myself who've come to enjoy this game as well. I began with EQ1, and at one point in my gaming career I had 5 simultaneous subscriptions going to 5 different MMOs. If anyone should be jaded or cynical, you'd think it would be me...but on the contrary, I'm having a blast in SWTOR.

 

Welcome aboard. May the Force be with you!

[Monave]

My first MMO was SWG and boy do I regret it every time I play MMO's. What a way to enter the MMO genre. SWG by far disgusted me from MMO's for about 5 years (seriously) Before the memory of it faded and I got back into the MMO genre. It was beauty to my eyes when I saw it was shutting down and I got free 45 days since I had an account (though it was inactive) during the hack attack in spring 2011. I Saw the game's final moments and a tear shed from my eye not for sympathy, but from seeing an abomination of a Star Wars game finally thrown in the trash. It was beautiful.

 

Sounds like you started playing SWG after the CU when SOE completely ruined ALL potential the game initially had.

 

My first MMO was DAoC nearly 10 years ago when my friends introduced me to this genre but it was the pre-CU incarnation of SWG that has always been my favorite IN SPITE of all its flaws and lack of content.

 

I have been through many MMOs like WoW which amazingly kept me for 4 years until being a Pally arena healer finally burned me out on the game and healing over 2 years ago. Now it looks like pandas are going to be a playable race.....

 

As to the OP, I think it is great that you're enjoying the game knowing that it's really your first in the genre and hope that experiences here don't get you jaded. If you play with RL friends that's the best but if not, being part of a good guild is a key to you having the best experience possible. For myself personally, I try to avoid the so-called 'leet guilds' and ones that have constant drama. In my experience "mature" guilds tend to be best on this but there are always exceptions and that just may be my preference since I am a older than most but younger than a few.

[Talarchy]

It's a shame the OP can't experience Starwars Galaxies... Now that actually felt like an MMO.

I play SWTOR because there is no other current / decent Star Wars MMO's. When the 8 year contract runs out with Bioware in 7.5 years, there will be another, there always is another , so we can pray for that time I guess. SWTOR just lacks those elements that made SWG feel like another universe. Forget about the sandbox aspect, so many things Bioware needs to take from that game IF they want SWTOR to survive. Instead, they are just catering for the ex-WOW players, where all people care about is raiding and getting better gear - and thats ALL they do.

[kodrac]

Excellent and refreshing post, OP. I am a MMO vet of 8+ years and I thoroughly enjoy this game as well. It's exactly my style of game. My first MMO was SWG too, by the way, but only for its first two years.

[Monave]

people dont like it because it's not "the norm"

 

story based, slow, and you are supposed to sit back, relax take your time and FULLY immerse yourself replayability is through the ROOF..for me anyways. Me treatz it wike kotor infinite hehehehehehe

 

 

Please do not overgeneralize or use hyperbole to make a point. This is not constructive or informative in any way. Actually it is a misleading and inflammatory statement as it serves to invalidate any person laying claim to any issue.

 

There are plenty of people that LOVE the story driven aspect of the game but have other issues with it and they are variable.

 

The issue my friends and I have for instance are different than what many others here have. There are many issues that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the reason you state.

 

Please stop mischaracterizing as it serves absolutely no purpose other than to misinform and inflame others.

[rickyard]

I feel slightly different, my case is that i have never played any mmorpg, and the only one i played and the only one i remembered was star wars galaxies. I liked a lot, i enjoyed every possibility i had in the game, because there you were able to be much more things than just a fighter. There were classes that fighted, some similar to what you got in swtor: there were jedi, (in swtor you got six of them... perhaps there was no need to make such an investment in originality ), smugglers (same as swtor), commandos (they were the "troopers"), bounty hunters (troopers that actually could REALLY take bounties on other players), spy (the agent-smuggler from swtor), medic (healer) and officer (true leader). The there were other classes for people that didn't want to fight comtinuously, or simply you could reroll with a very distinctive behaviour that sure gave you plenty of hours doing something different than "killing x".

 

A trader: A serious crafter, not sending crew to do automatically that task. Owner of machines that you could strategically place in the most suitable terrain to obtain some determined resource to build, through schematics, a starship, a droid, a weapon or a vehicle, chosing its characteristics, based on your skill (yes, skill, not gear) or even changing its colour. It had 4 specs.

An entertainer: character that was especialized in changing aspect and colour of hairstyles and clothes and able to play istruments, with mini-games that allowed you to play music with a group, learn songs, learn dancing skill and new movements earning xp while buffering other characters.

A pilot: Well, self-explained, great character, you began owning an R2 droid, then you had proficiency in Z-95, then Y-wing fighter, then X-wing... progressive learning and ownind new starfighters and droids

 

Not to mention about ten alien races to completely customize (from wookies to calamari to whatever). And of course not related to class. (why can't i have a wookie entertainer? or a bothan pilot?). And vehicles or starships where you could bring lots of players... multiplayer space combat... people helping you in the turret of your starship while you piloted... anyway:

When i first began swtor i though i'd find a perfect version of galaxies. But of course there is much less here. So I don't like the limitations of ONLY doing ONE of the things that galaxies allowed me to do. This game is only having the ability to press a key after another, no need to think, no creativity, no droid programming, no researching, no exploration, no piloting, no choosing HOW to craft a thing, no entertainers, no music, no alien races, no multiplayer space battles... in my opinion, is a step BACK. A lot of years back, it has a simplistic and repetitive gameplay. It is not even giving you choices, you can't choose a imperial agent twi'lek, they only give it to you as a feature if you complete "legacy". They give you choices that could have been in the game since the beginning as a reward. I don't mind about balanced pvp, i don't mind about superb voice acting, every game has its flaws, but galaxies was WAY BIGGER than any other thing i have experienced in my PC, because it included every thing you mention about this game, and a dozen OTHER things that ARE not in a game made a lot of years after.

[ALXinstincts]

I've had similar MMO experiences to the OP (few months of WoW here and there) and came to TOR fresh-faced and expectant, without having planned to buy it.... and I agree entirely. PvP was a welcome surprise for me too and generally the gameplay and stories are solid and enjoyable (barring some of the grind).

 

What's killing the game for me like so many others is the population crisis. Our fleet never sees numbers of more than 40 online during weekend/the odd weekday primetime. Most nights it hovers around 30. Top bracket PvP only pops between 6 and 10pm-ish with 10-15min waits between WZs. The 10-49 bracket is only slightly better. Our guild is the largest on the server and we've gone from running 8 operations per week for everyone of varying gear levels and time constraints to take part in, to people only being online for our hardmode EC progression runs... I could go on.

 

Sorry to derail the thread but if BW are reading this, you have a good game as it is. The biggest and best thing you can, and need, to add right now is population, so we can actually enjoy the game that's already there.

[ISTrick]

 

Sorry to derail the thread but if BW are reading this, you have a good game as it is. The biggest and best thing you can, and need, to add right now is population, so we can actually enjoy the game that's already there.

 

Even though my server is booming, I can fully appreciate this statement.

 

Community is paramount in my opinion, from my short stint as an MMO player I feel it's the most important thing for the game to flourish. It's obvious even to a noob like me that in order for the community to embrace the game as it deserves to be, the whole subscription base needs to be able to participate in all the facets SWTOR offers.

 

It's hard to play catch when there's no-one on the other end when you throw.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Sounds like you started playing SWG after the CU when SOE completely ruined ALL potential the game initially had.

 

My first MMO was DAoC nearly 10 years ago when my friends introduced me to this genre but it was the pre-CU incarnation of SWG that has always been my favorite IN SPITE of all its flaws and lack of content.

 

I have been through many MMOs like WoW which amazingly kept me for 4 years until being a Pally arena healer finally burned me out on the game and healing over 2 years ago. Now it looks like pandas are going to be a playable race.....

 

As to the OP, I think it is great that you're enjoying the game knowing that it's really your first in the genre and hope that experiences here don't get you jaded. If you play with RL friends that's the best but if not, being part of a good guild is a key to you having the best experience possible. For myself personally, I try to avoid the so-called 'leet guilds' and ones that have constant drama. In my experience "mature" guilds tend to be best on this but there are always exceptions and that just may be my preference since I am a older than most but younger than a few.

It wasn't just combat and the unstable engine that irritated me about the game it was also the fact that the game broke lore in every possible way. They especially butchered the Jedi lore to the last word. Not to mention SWG's community was the worst since there was no player segregation such as PvE, PvP, RP, etc on server listings. There was no end to drama between Roleplayers and PvPers. Not to mention whenever SOE "patched" something it breaks about 10+ other things.

 

When I was in the game for it's last days opening my inventory crashed the game. 9 years in and something as simple as that crashed SWG? I was even noticing problems that were present when I played the game 5 years ago.

[Monave]

It wasn't just combat and the unstable engine that irritated me about the game it was also the fact that the game broke lore in every possible way. They especially butchered the Jedi lore to the last word. Not to mention SWG's community was the worst since there was no player segregation such as PvE, PvP, RP, etc on server listings. There was no end to drama between Roleplayers and PvPers. Not to mention whenever SOE "patched" something it breaks about 10+ other things.

 

When I was in the game for it's last days opening my inventory crashed the game. 9 years in and something as simple as that crashed SWG? I was even noticing problems that were present when I played the game 5 years ago.

 

When the CU hit I logged in once to see my toon now represented by levels and it made me want to cry...I logged right off never to return.

 

P.S. Pre-CU was great as Jedis were as rare as seeing a Krayt Dragon roaming through Mos Eisley...

 

I didn't bother to stick around after this because it was a completely different game.

 

Ugh it's still painful thinking about it and that was nearly 8 years ago...

Edited May 16, 2012 by Monave

[Kubernetic]

Happy to see you're enjoying the game, OP! I, too, am loving my time in the game and look forward to many years of fun game play.

 

As to the negativity, that's something that I've found on most MMO forums. The first one I played, it really made me wonder. The second one I played, I started to get the picture. And now, this being the third major MMO I've played, it's just par for the course. I don't think it helps that more than 90% of the users of a game forum are the people having some kind of problem with it, and aside from maybe that 10% of people who are pleased, the rest of the happy players are IN the game, playing.

 

As to the expectations, that seems to be something from the new crowd of gamers. Once upon a time, we just wanted fun games to play. As long as the content was good and the game was entertaining, we didn't need much else. But I guess some of the breakthroughs in graphics (like Battlefield 3) and gameplay mechanics have started to breed a new generation of gamer that sees any game that hasn't significantly innovated in some fashion, even if it is a fun game, as being lacking and substandard.

 

I'm not sure it's much different than the rage with "Spicy" this or "Extra Spicy" that or all of the other "Extreme" flavorings that appear to be making its way into the food market. This is the Shifting Baselines problem... where what used to be "extreme" becomes normal, necessitating the drive for a new level of "extreme". Where a good grilled chicken sandwich with a light marinade, and a little mayo and lettuce might have been enough in the old days, now consumers need a Flamin' Spicy Crispy Filet with Fiery Buffalo Sauce and Zangy Avocado Ranch Sandwich. Otherwise, you get the complaint, "WTH? Just a chicken sandwich? REALLY?"

 

So anyway, back to your thread, it's great to see new players to the genre having a good time, and especially someone who is "new" to the Star Wars property itself. I remember how cool it was seeing Star Wars back when it first hit theaters, and I can only smile at the thought of someone new catching that SW bug.

 

Good luck and enjoy!

Edited May 16, 2012 by Kubernetic

[ISTrick]

Happy to see you're enjoying the game, OP! I, too, am loving my time in the game and look forward to many years of fun game play.

 

As to the negativity, that's something that I've found on most MMO forums. The first one I played, it really made me wonder. The second one I played, I started to get the picture. And now, this being the third major MMO I've played, it's just par for the course. I don't think it helps that more than 90% of the users of a game forum are the people having some kind of problem with it, and aside from maybe that 10% of people who are pleased, the rest of the happy players are IN the game, playing.

 

As to the expectations, that seems to be something from the new crowd of gamers. Once upon a time, we just wanted fun games to play. As long as the content was good and the game was entertaining, we didn't need much else. But I guess some of the breakthroughs in graphics (like Battlefield 3) and gameplay mechanics have started to breed a new generation of gamer that sees any game that hasn't significantly innovated in some fashion, even if it is a fun game, as being lacking and substandard.

 

I'm not sure it's much different than the rage with "Spicy" this or "Extra Spicy" that or all of the other "Extreme" flavorings that appear to be making its way into the food market. This is the Shifting Baselines problem... where what used to be "extreme" becomes normal, necessitating the drive for a new level of "extreme". Where a good grilled chicken sandwich with a light marinade, and a little mayo and lettuce might have been enough in the old days, now consumers need a Flamin' Spicy Crispy Filet with Fiery Buffalo Sauce and Zangy Avocado Ranch Sandwich. Otherwise, you get the complaint, "WTH? Just a chicken sandwich? REALLY?"

 

So anyway, back to your thread, it's great to see new players to the genre having a good time, and especially someone who is "new" to the Star Wars property itself. I remember how cool it was seeing Star Wars back when it first hit theaters, and I can only smile at the thought of someone new catching that SW bug.

 

Good luck and enjoy!

 

Cheers bro! (or bro-ess) - and may I add, that grilled chicken sandwich talk sent me straight to my kitchen to make one

 

I hope for communities sake and our game's expansion that 1.3 & 1.4 deliver the LFG/Ranked Warzones/Dual Spec/Legacy treats as BW have previously stated.. and obviously 'consolidating' the population onto less servers is a no-brainer. The Doctors at Bioware are smart fellows, they made Baldur's Gate 2 (favourite game ever.) so they have my backing

 

Now regarding SW fiction: I totally endorse going back to watch the Prequels (wait.. before anyone freaks hear me out) POST playing SWTOR and watching both Clone Wars series (2003/2008-Current) - they are actually good movies when you have spent a bit more time with the pre-IV/V/VI time and characters in the universe..

 

The expectations laid upon the Prequel films is quite similar to those that were piled on SWTOR... I remember my utter disappointment with the newer 3 films when walking out of the theater each time, but with context and less expectation fueled inertia, they have turned out to be much, MUCH more entertaining and valid when viewed second time around.

 

Now... back to the PvP - Grilled chicken sandwich in hand!

[rickyard]

When the CU hit I logged in once to see my toon now represented by levels and it made me want to cry...I logged right off never to return.

 

P.S. Pre-CU was great as Jedis were as rare as seeing a Krayt Dragon roaming through Mos Eisley...

 

I didn't bother to stick around after this because it was a completely different game.

 

Ugh it's still painful thinking about it and that was nearly 8 years ago...

 

What I feel lis that most people complaining about galaxies do so talking about some unbalance or unstability, but the overall idea of the game, to me, was great. This is the problem that i feel swtor have, the overall idea is limited to a couple of things to do. As i said before, galaxies was way bigger, had hundreds of options compared to this new title, and so to me swtor is a step back. I can't understand that balancing or pvp being perfect smooth is all that matters in a role playing game. Don't you give any importance to customization? don't you give importance to how many different races i can select between? Don't you give importance to space battles? wouldn't you like to CHOOSE your starship from a fair amount of starfighters? wouldn't you like to share your space battles with your mates? Wouldn't you like to be able to enjoy different aspects of star wars other than killing npc's or doing Call Of Duty? I am afraid i belong to a generation that was used to complex games, sandbox games are called today, we didn't call it sandbox, we called TOYS. With a game, you got rules, with a toy, you got elements, and do your own rules. In a game you got to do exactly what the developer has done for you, when you got a ball, you can play soccer, or bounce it, or play basketball, or throw it to a roof: you got freedom. That kind of freedom has dissapeared and everyone just complains about if the game is perfectly unbalanced or if it should be a merge of servers. I personally don't mind about this, because to me the game, in its conception, has really a short scope. In my opinion, of course.

[Jedipwnsauce]

my first MMO was Lineage 2 and there has never been an MMO with a better pvp system to date.

[ISTrick]

I've heard good things about Lineage 2 - might give it a fling at some stage.

 

I think I'm set though - being on Dalborra, I've been spoiled for population (200 in rep fleet in prime is the reg), so I'm happy to re-sub for a 6 monther, then buy GW2 at some stage and alternate for a while.

 

I would say when ESO comes out, I will probably put GW2 on the shelf for a bit and dual spec (or wield you could say) SWTOR and ESO - social life will wane.... but that's all good : I could do with a few less nights out .. . . my liver will thank me later.

[Ellvaan]

Greetings everyone!

 

We recently removed several posts from this thread for not being in compliance with our Rules of Conduct.

 

As a reminder, please keep the following in mind when replying:

 

1. 
    
   
2. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
    
   
3. Please stay on topic. Discussion should center around Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ and not other games.
    
   
4. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
    
   
5. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it.
    
   
6. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.
    
   

 

As a gentle reminder, the thread's topic is the discussion of ISTrick's opinion on Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. We ask that if you have feedback on other topics (which we would love to hear!), that you please leave that in the relevant thread or forum. We ask that all replies are constructive and on-topic to the discussion.

 

Thank you!

Edited May 21, 2012 by Ellvaan

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Great post, OP! You'll be happy to know that there are some experienced MMO players like myself who've come to enjoy this game as well. I began with EQ1, and at one point in my gaming career I had 5 simultaneous subscriptions going to 5 different MMOs. If anyone should be jaded or cynical, you'd think it would be me...but on the contrary, I'm having a blast in SWTOR.

 

Welcome aboard. May the Force be with you!

 

Same here, long time MMO player. Started with UO and have always had at least 1 MMO on the go. I am really enjoying SWTOR.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I traditionally have been a solid RPG gamer through and through (first RPG being Space Quest II in 1987),

 

Space Quest was a "point and click adventure" series, guess you mix up genres here... it was all about solving puzzles to progress (which was great). Like the old LucasArts adventures, Maniac Mansion.. Monkey Island.. etc.

 

TOR is certainly not an adventure game because there is barely anything for puzzle solving, only click and slash, plus sending companions on a mission....(Yawn.)

 

Walking to a blinking icon on a map is not exactly puzzle solving...

Edited May 21, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Karson]

It is a very refreshig post indeed.

 

This reminds me the day of my first MMO experience. It was with EQ1 years back. I spent countless hours in that game and then on its sequel EQ2. These two were the best MMO experience I had for the genre. I never had the same feeling again from another MMO...until SWTOR.

 

I'm not what people could call a Star Wars fan. I just like the setting as I like many others and I found it quite refreshing to play this game, cancelling my Rift account in the process. I play it since release and even if I do not have a huge amount of time to play it, I enjoy it at my pace.

The stories are fun (I must say that I played the beta of other MMOs that are to be released soon or have already been released and found them quite bland next to SWTOR...I hope I find a fantasy MMO with the same caliber), the gameplay handy, and for the first time I spend time on PvP, a feature I barely touched in other MMOs. When I log in I always have something to do with one of my 7 characters. Yes I like diversity, I like to play alts as I did for all other MMOs I played so far. I have 3 level 50 characters I still enjoy playing and when time permits I discover the stories of other classes. I do not think I have a "main" character since I play my level 50 characters equally.

 

I hope this game will expand. I sincerely want it to succeed.