Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

[Elmuerto]

Expertise is necessary to prevent organised PVE raiders dominating everyone else in PVP simply because theyd have a huge gear advantage, if you make top tier PVP gear have the same stats as PVE gear, you have equal issues with one method or the other being "easier/faster" than the other and players who exploit the easy method get an unfair advantage...thats usually PVE content exploits and farming, it smuch harder to exploit PVP for gear in a team environment against live players.

 

The PVP centric stat "Expertise" works just fine and is even necessary, it also allows them a way to adjust the flow of combat and "Role balance".. like tanking/healing/dps by simply adjusting the bonuses applied from Expertise, they can do that without impacting PVE one bit, which is a win/win for both PVPers and PVEers

 

Good explanation, but I just don't feel expertise is vilified as a fantastic model, no sir its boxed over 50 Warzones into a completely different mini game

[OwnzYou]

I agree Expertise is needed, as explained above, I just wish the Bonus from Expertise wasn't so high. It basically becomes the most important stat for PvP because it's both Damage AND Defense.

 

I obviously don't know how they develop this stuff, but I would rather have Expertise be a little extra bonus damage/defense, but keep the core Stats head and shoulders more important than Expertise. Enough to where that little bit of Expertise can make a small noticeable difference, but not so much a difference that you basically become dependent on stacking Expertise to be able to compete. This is my biggest gripe with 50 PvP now that I've finally hit 50 this week. Yes I saved up my Comms (and had 1k Merc Comms from pre-1.2) and was able to buy 3 BM pieces right away, and then bought the remaining Recruit pieces I needed. I consider myself to be a knowledgeable PvP Player, and a fairly competent player as well. But now that I've hit 50, I am getting steam rolled at times by people with far superior gear than me. Obviously this isn't all the time, but you can tell when you're completely out-geared, it's not just "oh this guy is a better player than me"

 

I realize this isn't an Expertise issue so much as it is a "they've been grinding Gear longer than you have" issue, I just wanted to /vent my frustration lol

[RachelAnne]

at lvl 40 you get a quest to go explore the zone where recruits drop.

 

how much more hand holding do you need?

 

I did every quest except 3 heroics at 50, nowhere did ever drop anything pvp related. I got purple items, blue´s, green´s, shematics but never pvp gear.

 

Are you sure about that? Was that in the game at jan - feb? If it was added in 1.2 then ofc. I did miss it, I wasnt 40 at this time.

[Kaizersan]

I laughed from reading the title alone there is no way Bioware could program something like this in the 1st place too many variables.

[Calitri]

I would think getting insta popped by BM/WH geared players would be enough incentive since they have no mitigation against that 20 something percent damage buff from expertise. But that's just me I guess.

[kronomandar]

I did every quest except 3 heroics at 50, nowhere did ever drop anything pvp related. I got purple items, blue´s, green´s, shematics but never pvp gear.

 

Are you sure about that? Was that in the game at jan - feb? If it was added in 1.2 then ofc. I did miss it, I wasnt 40 at this time.

 

recruit gear was added in 1.2....

why would it drop prior to that?

[SpoeMeister]

He was talking about the pvp quest given to you at level 40. The quest tells you to find Open PvP areas, like the outlaw's den on tatooine. The chests in Tatooine apparantly drop recruit gear.

[FalcoLombardi]

I tried using some recruit gear, I did worse with it. I got about 360 expertise right now, some Battlemaster mods on my armor. Do about as good as the other PvP "tanks" on the team with full Battlemaster gear

[Serbegorn]

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

lol no /bird

[EugeneYap]

I laughed from reading the title alone there is no way Bioware could program something like this in the 1st place too many variables.

 

WOW did that its called gear level, I dun see why the reason why BW can;t do it.

[SneakyErvin]

I agree with the OP, add recruit gear as a requirement.

 

There is no reason not having it or buying it. At 50 you should have more than enough credits for it and a bunch left over after you buy it and skills.

 

Whoever here claimed level 50 skills costs alot are lying. Level 50 skills for all classes cost 10k per skill and you have between 10-15 skill depending on class. Unless we are talking about warriors, which I have no clue what their skills cost or how many they have at 50. I've dinged 2 BHs, 1 Agent and 2 Sins and neither have had a skill cost higher than 10k per skill at 50.

 

The only people that lack gold while leveling/at level 50 are the type that 2 of my friends are. Either those that buy epics very often for little use, but they must have it cos its good. Or the ones that have to buy every skill/schematic at their trainers. There are alot of skills you can just skip, that your AC/spec has no use for, saving you tons and tons of money. Same with schematics, you can level any crew skill in a very very cheap way, buy exactly what you need to level on, then buy schematics when it matters i.e level 50.

 

Lack of credits is a bad excuse int his game.

 

Also a hint. Dont waste credits on speeder upgrades. Its a waste of credits, especially if you are a pvper, since there is no place worth using it. And if you say its good and speeds up dailies... guess what! You wouldnt need to grind those dailies if you skipped upgrading speeders for those extra whooping 20%.

[RachelAnne]

He was talking about the pvp quest given to you at level 40. The quest tells you to find Open PvP areas, like the outlaw's den on tatooine. The chests in Tatooine apparantly drop recruit gear.

 

Well I was lvl 49 at the end of Jan, then took a break as I had no time and came back at 1.2 and did make the last lvl

 

Guess this explains why I never saw that quest or any recruit gear besides at the vendors.

[ATango]

I'm sure all the elites here got their gear handed to them on a silver platter. You forgot your grind? Being undergeared. Being wrecked by anyone that looked your way. You think they enjoy being sent to the med center 25 times per wz? Work with them than against them.

 

Tone down your epeen. Let the newbies that hit 50 be able to pvp in peace. They will have their gear in a week or more depending on how busy their life is. Chillax

[NDiggy]

I'm sure all the elites here got their gear handed to them on a silver platter. You forgot your grind? Being undergeared. Being wrecked by anyone that looked your way. You think they enjoy being sent to the med center 25 times per wz? Work with them than against them.

 

Tone down your epeen. Let the newbies that hit 50 be able to pvp in peace. They will have their gear in a week or more depending on how busy their life is. Chillax

 

Isn't that the point? Those of us who hit 50 pre-1.2 had to go into WZs with no pvp gear and get blown up by everyone in full BM gear. We had to take our lumps and be a liability to the team because there was no alternative. Post 1.2 there is an alternative, simply buy the recruit set. Its not that expensive, and it really does make a big difference. Anyone who says otherwise is severely misinformed.

 

This isn't an "epeen" issue. No one is being elitist. We just expect people to have enough respect for their teammates to buy the recruit set and not put their team at a disadvantage. Why would anyone want to make things harder on themselves and their team?

[lijahrobinson]

I think the easiest solution would be just to give it as a reward for the first warzone completion upon turning 50. No need to buy and everyone gets access to it. Problem solved.

[SneakyErvin]

I see some people in here that really dont understand how much of an improvement recruit gear is compared to any non-expertise gear.

 

One guy earlier said he had 700k left after buying everything at 50 except his speeder 3 training. And he didnt want to spend half that on a recruit set that lowered his primary stat.

 

This IMO shows the lack of knowledge he has when it comes to expertise vs no expertise. I dont mean to be rude, but it does.

 

You might think losing main stats being alot and that it will make you preform worse. And the answer to that is a big NO. Most recruit pieces will make you lose your main stat, but many pieces will increase power, surge and so on along with expertise.

 

Losing 150-200 of your main stat does not equal the damage benefit expertise gives you in pvp, which with a full recruit gear is 17-18% if I remember right. Then around 14-15% damage reduction aswell as 10% extra healing. There is no way that your loss of the main stat will have that impact. Also adding in power and surge you will be ahead of your fresh 50 pve gear, unless you mod it perfectly in which case you lose even more credits. The recruit gear costs what? 250k creds?

[mystbladex]

Making the recruit gear free, is not even the issue, it really is already free. Credits are so easy to get it is not even funny.

 

And even if it was free, it still does not mean they would put on the gear. Mainly because they do not understand expertise.

[Baizak]

You all should also take into consideration that maybe that person wearing what you thyink is green is actually slotted with purple PvP mods.

 

I for one PvP on my Female in nothing but a slave girl outfit Packed with M25 Mods, Enhances, armor and Augs. I have seen others in newbie looking gear with the same setup, this game is about looking how you want, do not be deceived by someones "appearance".

 

It's not based on appearance, it is based on when you inspect a player and see they have 150 expertise. Weather it is quest greens or PvE raid purps. Expertise is king in WZ's if you don't have the minimum amount of expertise you are a liability and just as good as being a man down. Hell i bet the number of nerd x class threads would go down quite a bit if fresh 50's and experienced PvE geared folks would just get the recruit set.

[ATango]

Isn't that the point? Those of us who hit 50 pre-1.2 had to go into WZs with no pvp gear and get blown up by everyone in full BM gear. We had to take our lumps and be a liability to the team because there was no alternative. Post 1.2 there is an alternative, simply buy the recruit set. Its not that expensive, and it really does make a big difference. Anyone who says otherwise is severely misinformed.

 

This isn't an "epeen" issue. No one is being elitist. We just expect people to have enough respect for their teammates to buy the recruit set and not put their team at a disadvantage. Why would anyone want to make things harder on themselves and their team?

 

This I can agree with and I do agree with. When I noticed a level 50 with 13k HP last week that I bumped into for a couple of hours and noticed that they didn't have one piece of recruit gear at the end I did ask the question.

 

A always ask players to purchase the off recruit pieces while saving comms for the weapon and the other set bonus pieces.

 

Some people just don't know how to go about gearing for PvP at 50 and just need some guidance. there will always be exploiters but at the same time I don't think it's fair to deprive a new 50 that is really trying their best and the only thing slowing them is the inevitable gear grind.

 

I'm not entirely defending the newbies. Some are so self centered like you see in some of the posts about credits. I won't be surprised if there are some players that are only doing pvp for their mount collection. It was common in another MMO.

 

This is a hard one. Is it fair to force the players to do pve dailies till they have enough credits to buy all the recruit pieces to enter a 50 wz? Do they start another bracket in the 50's? It's very hard to make everything work for the teamplayer and me-player.

Edited May 9, 2012 by ATango

[L-RANDLE]

I see some people in here that really dont understand how much of an improvement recruit gear is compared to any non-expertise gear.

 

One guy earlier said he had 700k left after buying everything at 50 except his speeder 3 training. And he didnt want to spend half that on a recruit set that lowered his primary stat.

 

This IMO shows the lack of knowledge he has when it comes to expertise vs no expertise. I dont mean to be rude, but it does.

 

You might think losing main stats being alot and that it will make you preform worse. And the answer to that is a big NO. Most recruit pieces will make you lose your main stat, but many pieces will increase power, surge and so on along with expertise.

 

Losing 150-200 of your main stat does not equal the damage benefit expertise gives you in pvp, which with a full recruit gear is 17-18% if I remember right. Then around 14-15% damage reduction aswell as 10% extra healing. There is no way that your loss of the main stat will have that impact. Also adding in power and surge you will be ahead of your fresh 50 pve gear, unless you mod it perfectly in which case you lose even more credits. The recruit gear costs what? 250k creds?

Your analysis is off a bit.

 

Recuit Chest Piece:

69WP, 62END, 36POW,42ALA, 69EXP(+2%)

Non-Augmented Orange Chest (with lvl 50 epics):

99WP, 78END, 27POW, 39SUR

 

So take this over the 6 moddable pieces(assuming you can't get modded bracers/belt), you lose more like 200MAIN for 12%, but the same goes for relics, implants, ear, etc. So really over 14 pieces, on average, you are losing well over 400 main stat for 18% & 2K HP, and less item optimization possibilities. EXP ONLY affects your damage bonus stat, but as you can see that 18% gain is based on a lower damage bonus number with recuit gear(so what are you really gaining?). As for mitigation and healing, it really is muted. Maybe from a damage standpoint your net gain is 2%, but 2K HP versus 14% decrease on a 6K attack (also keep in mind MedPaks are based on your max HP), take the HP. And healing is BY FAR the worst reason to wear ANY PvP gear.

 

Moral of the story is recuit gear should not be a requirement to que, but players who are in lvl 44 green gear need to at least get some recuit pieces or lvl 50 epics before they que. Help them out too. I give my mods/enh from dailies to noobs and try to give them stims/adr/medpak if I have any available. it will make everyones life easier...

[dcgregorya]

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

I agree. Recruit gear should be gifted to you at 50 (it sucks, 320k for it is a joke) and expertise > 500 should be mandatory to solo queue. I'm also sick of getting stuck with people who die in 2 shots because they don't read the forums and don't know what recruit gear is or why they need it.

[dcgregorya]

Your analysis is off a bit.

 

Recuit Chest Piece:

 

How about ears and implants? You're assuming these brand new level 50's have run dailies for weeks and have the best PVE gear they can have without running Ops. Reality is they're usually in blue/green gear (recruit gear matters for 1-2 weeks, then you'll be at least 50% battlemaster). Across the whole set it is 18% extra damage and (here's the important part) 15% damage reduction. If you save comms til you hit 50, you can buy the weapon and stick an expertise crystal into it and be relatively competitive on the very first day of PVP.

 

Done this before for 3 characters and PVP enough to tell you that the difference between recruit gear and green/blue gear is that I two shot people in green/blue gear.

Edited May 9, 2012 by dcgregorya

[mystbladex]

yeah when I hit someone for 5k when I have no cooldowns popped you know they are wearing blues/greens.

 

So then I look for them and I pop all my cooldown, for fun. and then its a 2 hit kill

[looneybinjim]

you have to PVP ALOT to get 3500 rwz guarentee your gonna hit lvl 50 before you make that cap since you dont start getting them till lvl 40 so your point is mute and invalid 700 expertise to start is nothing against someone with 1.3k fact. you talk a big game but you fail to understand that alot of those poeple sitting in BM got it the easy way and BW made it hard for everyone else. i agree remove expertise then it will be based of skill and not gear

 

700 expertise is better than 0 expertise. fact.

[L-RANDLE]

How about ears and implants? You're assuming these brand new level 50's have run dailies for weeks and have the best PVE gear they can have without running Ops. Reality is they're usually in blue/green gear (recruit gear matters for 1-2 weeks, then you'll be at least 50% battlemaster). Across the whole set it is 18% extra damage and (here's the important part) 15% damage reduction. If you save comms til you hit 50, you can buy the weapon and stick an expertise crystal into it and be relatively competitive on the very first day of PVP.

 

Done this before for 3 characters and PVP enough to tell you that the difference between recruit gear and green/blue gear is that I two shot people in green/blue gear.

 

Hold on... Rakata ear/implants? Yes they take awhile, but anything below them follow the same notion, as my crafted purples have a similar trade off when compairing them to recuit.

Recuit Ear:

62WP, 69END, 69EXP, 36POW, 42ALA

 

Non-Augmented Expert Exhilarating:

47WP, 53END, 60POW(!), 27SUR, 23ALA

My Augmented Expert Exhilarating

65WP, 65END, 60POW, 27SUR, 23ALA

 

Same thing goes for implants. I didn't change them until I had my BM ones..

I was broke when I dinged 50 b/c crafting in pre1.2 ATE my funds, so having 350k to spend was not even close to possible. No, I am not assuming "weeks" of dailies. In 30 min, you can get 8 dailies on ILUM. Each 50 epic purple piece of armor/mod costs...... 8 dailies. 2 hours of dailies fills one orange piece with lvl 50 epics. Find a cyber/biochem to get you some t3 purps, buy armor/mods with dailies and use recruit gear to fill in the gaps. This is to supplement you until you get to BM pieces.