Buff Operatives

[laiboch]

I can agree that Ops / smugglers need some love in the sustained DPS area, but if you want higher sustained then you need to lose your unquestioned top end burst.

 

take away your ability to 3-4 shot people and I'll be all for you getting the same crappy sustained damage as everyone else. As for gap closers... you have stun after stun and the only reason you need a gap closer in all honestly is for PVP... I disagree with this.. you have enough tools already and the most OP burst in the game. Really you don't need more...

 

I'm not just saying this because I don't like the class. I play an Op.

[khouj]

I can agree that Ops / smugglers need some love in the sustained DPS area, but if you want higher sustained then you need to lose your unquestioned top end burst.

 

take away your ability to 3-4 shot people and I'll be all for you getting the same crappy sustained damage as everyone else. As for gap closers... you have stun after stun and the only reason you need a gap closer in all honestly is for PVP... I disagree with this.. you have enough tools already and the most OP burst in the game. Really you don't need more...

 

I'm not just saying this because I don't like the class. I play an Op.

Lets be completely honest here, the burst of an operative is trash compared to other classes. Calling it the 'unquestioned top burst' is just incorrect. The only people you can 3-4 shot are severely undergeared. These targets aren't hard to kill super fast.

 

You want proof? Pay close attention the next time your servers best pyrotech is in your warzone.

[sirbobert]

1. You have stealth.

2. Pick your battles carefully.

3. Problem solved.

 

 

(ps)

 

Thanks for admitting your stealth is your gap closer.

So, since you already have a gap closer, tell me why you need another one?

 

I bet when you rode the short bus to school your parents told you it was normal.

[Stongrel]

Ops/Scoundrels are fine. If you're having trouble killing anything, I strongly advise you roll a sent/marauder like all the other noobs.

[Motoeric]

too many nubs post on the pvp forums.

 

if you never saw a t2 wep in wow, have never been diamond + in sc2 or done anything of merit you probably are still just an inferior baddy.

 

learn to play, watch some pvp vids, and for god sake stop making these dumb *** threads lmao

[khouj]

too many nubs post on the pvp forums.

 

if you never saw a t2 wep in wow, have never been diamond + in sc2 or done anything of merit you probably are still just an inferior baddy.

 

learn to play, watch some pvp vids, and for god sake stop making these dumb *** threads lmao

Videos of smugglers slapping 11k hp people down in 'sick 2v1s' and beating people in duels playing hybrid spec sure are educational. Not.

 

If you can't see how easily concealment is kited idk what to tell you. Since you mentioned wow, think mutilate rogues in s4.. except without the damage.

[Aral-UK]

I hope BW just leaves ops/scoundrels alone for now. Were not in such a bad situation, people just need to start utilising our existing skills more rather than complaining about the lack of x and y. Since 1.2, tendon blast specced for root has become my new favourite skill, great against classes that try to kite, nothing like seeing a sorc waste their 2 secs of force speed on my root. I notice triage isnt used enough too by op's/scoundrels also (was prone to this myself), particulary againt all the anni/watch out there now.

 

1 vs 1, i think were still very good, only good PT's/van's can consistently beat me, and then usually if im caught out. Its really group play where we struggle more. Personally, id prefer a more solid defensive cd rather than a leap etc, even something basic like our shield probe absorbing more dmg. What ev's though, 9 sec backblast again would be nice but not gonna happen eh?

[Safgril]

The Fatman Server...

 

talk to TheYeti.... superb OP.... till then... get geared and learn the class better.

[WasabiJack]

I can agree that Ops / smugglers need some love in the sustained DPS area, but if you want higher sustained then you need to lose your unquestioned top end burst.

 

take away your ability to 3-4 shot people and I'll be all for you getting the same crappy sustained damage as everyone else. As for gap closers... you have stun after stun and the only reason you need a gap closer in all honestly is for PVP... I disagree with this.. you have enough tools already and the most OP burst in the game. Really you don't need more...

 

I'm not just saying this because I don't like the class. I play an Op.

 

If you really played an Operative, you would have used "we" instead of "you".

 

And the gap closer is more for utility in hutball really, otherwise I think we're fine with tendon blast, stealth, flashbang to keep people from running.

[Malynchi]

If someone thinks that stealth is a gap closer, please show me another class with 2 gap closers: 1 that can only be used out of combat and another that has a 3 minute cool down (can be specced to a 2 minute cool down). Also, which other class has a gap closer that has a chance of failure if someone simply faces their direction. No, stealth is not, nor will ever be a gap closer for ops. Tendon slice (or whatever its called) is a gap closer, no question asked. Snare, plus can be specced to rool. That's some wholesome pvp goodness right there.

 

Also, as far as burst dps goes, I wish I saw the kind of dps on my op that I read about in the forums. I guess if I find a level 10 out there in open world my dps seems insane, but against an equal level/geared player, burst is just not there in this class. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or simply has no idea what they are talking about.

 

One thing I would love to see in this game is the ability for ops to be able to consistently use melee attack. The crazy cool downs force me to have to use my gun from time to time. I love that my primary attack is ranged (great if you are being kited), but frankly my operative just wants to stab people and shouldnt have to shoot when in melee range ever. If you are pvping aginst an op, sorry you should be punished severely for being in melee range.

[Squatdog_nz]

Concealment Operatives are gimped as hell.

 

They have good burst, but ONLY from stealth and ONLY behind a single target. Then they run out of steam and are doing mediocre DPS with no survivability or an effective gap-closer.

 

...but those mammoth 2k heals off a 2.5sec cast time make up for it, right? LOL!

[Sathid]

Concealment Operatives are gimped as hell.

 

They have good burst, but ONLY from stealth and ONLY behind a single target. Then they run out of steam and are doing mediocre DPS with no survivability or an effective gap-closer.

 

...but those mammoth 2k heals off a 2.5sec cast time make up for it, right? LOL!

 

This is going to come off bias but Operatives compared to scoundrels have a faster attack or attacks,but both classes do not hit hard like many have said after their opener and the opener has been nerfed into oblivion to the point most of the class no longer use it often.

[Squatdog_nz]

I can agree that Ops / smugglers need some love in the sustained DPS area, but if you want higher sustained then you need to lose your unquestioned top end burst.

 

take away your ability to 3-4 shot peopleand I'll be all for you getting the same crappy sustained damage as everyone else. As for gap closers... you have stun after stun and the only reason you need a gap closer in all honestly is for PVP... I disagree with this.. you have enough tools already and the most OP burst in the game. Really you don't need more...

 

I'm not just saying this because I don't like the class. I play an Op.

 

LOL@Operatives 3-shotting people...

 

LOL@stun after stun...

 

Bad Players are BAD.

[sirbobert]

LOL@Operatives 3-shotting people...

 

LOL@stun after stun...

 

Bad Players are BAD.

 

Yes sir. Also, don't forget teams. There are TEAMS I tell ya, TEAMS of operatives ravaging every server.

 

This game isn't bleeding subs because of anything anyone at BW/EA did. THE TEAMS OF STUNLOCKING OPERATIVES killed swtor.

[majikx]

well i didn't read all the post in hear.

 

all i wanted to say is that as a healer i hated operatives pre nerf. after the nerf i can't remember one time that one has been able to open up on me and kill me. unless of course there are 2 of them. the burst just doesn't seem to be there anymore and i can get away and get healed back up pretty easy. of course there aren't as many as there use to be, so maybe the real goods quit, rerolled or whatever.

 

just don't know much about dps ops/scoundrel. stealth classes seem to be one of those that even a small adjustment here or there could throw **** out of whack. so not sure what could be done.

[Lovia]

Assassins are the other stealth-based class and are FAR better than Operatives in every way apart from being able to spec for heals.

 

LMAO@stealth being a 'gap-closer' like Force Charge, Grapple, Force Sprint etc...

 

yes idd stealth isnt just a gap closer, its also an amazing positioning tool, provides information risk free via scouting, gives a huge suprise element, provides the stealther with the capability to use a brakes-on-damage cc, keeps you out of combat and provides extreme control over classes that can only do their thing from range.

 

Stealth in its design has only a movement speed component drawback and nothing else, no resource burn no nothing and provides you with utility no other ability in the game can offer.

 

I would trade any gap closer with any character for stealth. the fact that shadows/assassins have 2 is an affront and must be dealth with swiftly.

[Lovia]

If someone thinks that stealth is a gap closer, please show me another class with 2 gap closers: 1 that can only be used out of combat and another that has a 3 minute cool down (can be specced to a 2 minute cool down). Also, which other class has a gap closer that has a chance of failure if someone simply faces their direction. No, stealth is not, nor will ever be a gap closer for ops. Tendon slice (or whatever its called) is a gap closer, no question asked. Snare, plus can be specced to rool. That's some wholesome pvp goodness right there.

.

 

Any dps vanguard/powertech spec has exactly 1 gap closer on a 45 sec cooldown that doesnt work on opponents with filled resolved bars the skills cd can be reduced to 35cd on the more melee-focused skill.

[Mercuryshooter]

 

This player isn't even fully DPS speced for the 30% armor penetration/crit bonus which with right relics/adrenals i do believe 3-4k+ crits are quite achievable.

 

Gap closers? Stealth? Don't you have a 8 sec ranged stun i.e. Flash Bang? These are both gap closers.

 

My op is a low level, but I'd imagine my end game rotation being: Buffs, stealth opening KD, backstab, Laceration combo(s), and shiv. With explosive probe, fragment grenade, and Debilitate thrown in the mix. If at some point I lose my distance because he trinkets my stun(s) Flash Bang and get back to him. Probably wouldn't use corrosive dart to not break Flash Bang.

 

As far as taking on multiple opponents. . . you've failed as a stealth class if you've put yourself in that situation and to the healer being guarded. If your the only person attacking them your team has failed.

 

This is a L2P problem.

[Squatdog_nz]

 

This player isn't even fully DPS speced for the 30% armor penetration/crit bonus which with right relics/adrenals i do believe 3-4k+ crits are quite achievable.

 

Gap closers? Stealth? Don't you have a 8 sec ranged stun i.e. Flash Bang? These are both gap closers.

 

My op is a low level, but I'd imagine my end game rotation being: Buffs, stealth opening KD, backstab, Laceration combo(s), and shiv. With explosive probe, fragment grenade, and Debilitate thrown in the mix. If at some point I lose my distance because he trinkets my stun(s) Flash Bang and get back to him. Probably wouldn't use corrosive dart to not break Flash Bang.

 

As far as taking on multiple opponents. . . you've failed as a stealth class if you've put yourself in that situation and to the healer being guarded. If your the only person attacking them your team has failed.

 

This is a L2P problem.

 

Flashbang is a mez with a 1min CD that breaks on damage. It is not a 'gap-closer'.

 

Assassins have a 30m stun, 30m mez AND Force Sprint AND a talented pull. Big difference.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[khouj]

 

This player isn't even fully DPS speced for the 30% armor penetration/crit bonus which with right relics/adrenals i do believe 3-4k+ crits are quite achievable.

 

Gap closers? Stealth? Don't you have a 8 sec ranged stun i.e. Flash Bang? These are both gap closers.

 

My op is a low level, but I'd imagine my end game rotation being: Buffs, stealth opening KD, backstab, Laceration combo(s), and shiv. With explosive probe, fragment grenade, and Debilitate thrown in the mix. If at some point I lose my distance because he trinkets my stun(s) Flash Bang and get back to him. Probably wouldn't use corrosive dart to not break Flash Bang.

 

As far as taking on multiple opponents. . . you've failed as a stealth class if you've put yourself in that situation and to the healer being guarded. If your the only person attacking them your team has failed.

 

This is a L2P problem.

Your end game rotation against me is, get cc'd, have no gap closer, do zero damage. You can't play better and avoid this.

 

Seriously, I'm not trying to sound like an elitist here, I'm trying to get my class buffed so I'm not pigeonholed into playing healer if I want to be competitive. The best scoundrels on my server don't even try to target me anymore, not because I can outheal them while standing still, but because I'm one of the few players who will make them walk around slowly like an idiot trying to get in range of me.

[Escarrabutxaques]

+1

The concealment operatives need some serious buffs in mobility and some changes in energy regeneration/cooldown length.

 

While adjustable energy regeneration rate is quite a good idea for PVE, for PVP it is bad. Really bad. And here is why: while you can keep with your rotation in PVE without hurting your regen much, in PVP in order to be efficient and useful for your team, you don't strickly stick to your rotation, you have to cc, dispel dots, interrupt, even throw emergency heals if needed. Why do I do that and why do I even complain about not being able to do those things efficiently? Because after initial burst, half of the times you end up stuck in combat for 8-30 seconds, even if you managed to kill your target. Or even better, sometimes you respawn already stuck in combat (revitalizers bug?).

 

Mobility. I see the designer of this class/tree logic: any kind of gap closer or speed boost isn't really needed on a class that supposed to ambush, do a lot of damage in a short time and disappear. But it is not working as designed.

Ambushing someone sometimes is impossible due to how stealth detection works, amount of random aoe in the teamfights and very long cooldown on sneak. Restealth mechanic is not realiable (stuck in combat), neither our combat restealth is (too long cd, no stealth protection mechanic. evasion not removing all the dot effects).

 

As we can see, 5 months after the game launch stealth is still fragile and not 100% reliable tool, stuck in combat issue still occurs, even some new awesome bugs have been added (Im talking about cover animation bug and crouch, making cover mechanic even less reliable than ever). So, maybe it's time to review the design of the class and compensate for broken and unreliable stealth dependancy (because there wasnt any signs of developers actually fixing or planning to fix stealth/restealth mechanics)?

Edited May 5, 2012 by Escarrabutxaques

[Ravashakk]

Gap closers? Stealth? Don't you have a 8 sec ranged stun i.e. Flash Bang? These are both gap closers.

 

10m is "ranged" now? That's the range of pretty much every melee move lol.

 

And when you can drop combat like you can in wow, then I'll say stealth is really great. Sometimes takes 30+ secs of nothing before you can without blowing your cloaking screen, as opposed to the 6 secs of inactivity that wow has.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Ravashakk]

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

 

Most impressive operative performance screenshot competition? Sure

[AHChrist]

Shadow-step - Blink out of sight and appear behind the target.

 

Every MMO but this one has it.

[Crumpilumpigus]

The irony of this thread is that when people realize they can't win a fight, they want to run away...and now you guys want a gap closer. How much is ever enough for you guys?