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pvp isnt fun since 1.2


Vulgarr

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Expertise changes barely made any difference between 1.1.5 and 1.2, and if you die before you can get 1 GCD off...stop wearing lvl 19 greens into 50 warzones.

 

Ilum was never fun

 

Your title suggests 1.2 ruined Open World pvp while leveling. It has always been non-existent.

 

The game has also always run pretty bad, 1.2 did nothing to this.

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End game pvp gear is War hero and not BM.

 

Made me smile, in that case End game gear is Augmented gear with WH armoring/mods/enchs not War hero itself. Wouldn't make sence but hey it's all what are you doing dispute just for the sake of it am i right ? :)

 

Anyway if u think that game in Okish condition feel free to think that way i m making that conclusion due to your Counterarguments to the OP post, here just the survey, i was on Full server with 50 min wait time 2 weeks ago,

now it's Heavy/Standart during the same time. That just stands for the condition of the game.

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I don't think developers need to give "incentives" to do world PvP.

You don't have to think it, but they DO!

 

Incentive drives us all in MMOs. Titles, armor, tokens, stuff...it doesn't matter what it is, but players want to be compensated for their TIME. World PvP is no different. Consumables, cosmetics or time limited buffs would be preferable rewards for PvP IMO...but rewards (incentive) MUST be given.

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Made me smile, in that case End game gear is Augmented gear with WH armoring/mods/enchs not War hero itself. Wouldn't make sence but hey it's all what are you doing dispute just for the sake of it am i right ? :)

 

Anyway if u think that game in Okish condition feel free to think that way i m making that conclusion due to your Counterarguments to the OP post, here just the survey, i was on Full server with 50 min wait time 2 weeks ago,

now it's Heavy/Standart during the same time. That just stands for the condition of the game.

 

Optimized augmented gear is obviously going to be the best. And that is a huge difference between that and regular BM gear, which a lot of people are running. People might indeed be better off with optimized augmented BM gear vs unoptimized BM gear. But that's a lot of time and credits to do that for non-BIS gear, I'm not sure you actually save any time.

 

And doing all that just to be at no or little disadvantage is going to be a big turn off to a lot of people that are just looking to play for fun. That's quite a gear treadmill to go through. I get major discounts from other guilds because they know me, but for most people you're going to have to find and join a specific guild in order for optimization to even be possible. My current guild is kind of dead but I have a sentimental attachment to it I guess and don't want to disband it.

 

I don't think this game is very accessible to new players and it's quite a huge disadvantage. At least for end game PVP. This is a major reason why many newer players don't want to get to 50 and have said they enjoy pre-50 PVP much more.

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Ilum was never fun

 

Your title suggests 1.2 ruined Open World pvp while leveling. It has always been non-existent.

 

The game has also always run pretty bad, 1.2 did nothing to this.

 

That's your opinion and one I do not share. Ilum sucked hard...but it was better than NOTHING!

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I don't think this game is very accessible to new players and it's quite a huge disadvantage. At least for end game PVP. This is a major reason why many newer players don't want to get to 50 and have said they enjoy pre-50 PVP much more.

 

If a new player is interested in PvP, it is now VERY accessible. How long does it take to get BM gear now? 2 weeks? Yea BM gear is not the top tier, but it isnt that far off from war hero.

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wine wine wine, thats all the forums are. you must just be a noob or some ****, cause if im winning... pvp is fun to me. lol. I actually love the changes to pvp, and think you are being a baby about it. i dont agree with some of them, but whatever. driving in circles for armorments isnt as fun as you think you remember. I do not understand though why they would not allow us to have 8 man q's, or rated wz, but they will come soon enough. btw, this game runs perfectly on my "high end pc" so I dont know your problem. i have a core i5 clocked to 4.2 ghz, 8gb ram, and a gtx 460 card, and have never had any lag or issues at all;
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That's your opinion and one I do not share. Ilum sucked hard...but it was better than NOTHING!

 

My server runs its own Open World PvP events.

 

Try organizing something similar in your server forums. Open World PvP sucks without player interest anyway, don't leave it up to the devs to provide "rewards" for you to do it.

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Optimized augmented gear is obviously going to be the best. And that is a huge difference between that and regular BM gear, which a lot of people are running. People might indeed be better off with optimized augmented BM gear vs unoptimized BM gear. But that's a lot of time and credits to do that for non-BIS gear, I'm not sure you actually save any time.

 

And doing all that just to be at no or little disadvantage is going to be a big turn off to a lot of people that are just looking to play for fun. That's quite a gear treadmill to go through. I get major discounts from other guilds because they know me, but for most people you're going to have to find and join a specific guild in order for optimization to even be possible. My current guild is kind of dead but I have a sentimental attachment to it I guess and don't want to disband it.

 

I don't think this game is very accessible to new players and it's quite a huge disadvantage. At least for end game PVP. This is a major reason why many newer players don't want to get to 50 and have said they enjoy pre-50 PVP much more.

 

+ To this, there alot of ppl claiming Warhero, Augmented War hero, will do a difference, yeah it will ofcource it's gonna be slight advantage against major player base, but anyway it's just a time waste in the persuit of carrot which doesn't make pvp fun for the sake of it, it just boosts egos and e-peens, for those who have them and for those who haven't.

 

I m just thinking of what would happen if those changes wouldn't been so vital to the game preformance and ppl would stop chasing the +18 Mainstat + 14 Endurance in Crited Orange gear filled with WH parts. I think subs would drop even more.

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my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp.

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter)

6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless

7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best.

8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE.

9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date.

10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not.

11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time.

12. there is no way to server transfer.

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money.

everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came.

 

unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve.

 

and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free).

 

hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are.

 

 

thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

 

+1

 

They have managed in one patch, ONE PATCH, to completely alienate the PvP community one month, ONE MONTH, before the launch of a new MMO that has bet the farm on PvP community.

Edited by Cempa
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+1

 

They have managed in one patch, ONE PATCH, to completely alienate the PvP community one month, ONE MONTH, before the launch of a new MMO that has bet the farm on PvP community.

 

Half the stuff he said is QQ and not based on reality.

 

Yea, no World PvP, but that is for casuals anyway.

 

Expertise barely changed. Just straight QQ here.

 

The game plays fine, or at least the same as before 1.2

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well PvP works now. not sure how lvl 50 PvP was as I didnt get a toon to 50 until after the 1.2.

 

But.,No lag in PvP because of cannon fire is a major +. the second a cannon would open fire in civ war I would drop 30 FPS and the game would be unplayable.

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most of the regular pvpers from before 1.2 unsubbed. Leaving our imp side with a bunch of recruit geared players (myself included) to fight repub premade warheroes. Pretty hard to gear up when we do get a match its 8 on 6 and it takes 5 of us to focus down one of their healers...every match that goes by, our opponents just get stronger, and more people from our side just give up.

 

1.2's biggest fail is implementing war hero gear an not the ranked matches.

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my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

 

Ilum was trash in the design, development, and release stages. It was total garbage from the time they started coding it. It never worked. That's why it's gone. It wasn't even an attempt it was so bad. Utter garbage and a waste of development resources.

 

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

 

It's not that bad imo, but it could use some help. Bioware copied WoW's "pvp in a box" model, along with the tiered gear. I was expecting something evolutionary in the least, not a copy/paste job.

 

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

 

What?! The game rendering clientside is not the same as the networking code that optimizes client and server communication. Each has its optimizations and specific code sets. Your hardware, the client side code for game rendering, the number and latency to, servers between you and the host, and the server farm itself hosting your session all play a part in your experience. Good lord you're way out in left field here.

 

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

Again, you're not talking to this clearly at all. Generalizations about systems you don't know. The game itself runs well, albeit not perfect, on most systems, including mine and my friend's.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

.....

Edited by rsomazzi
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1 .Comments regarding game engine problems are accurate, and will take time to fix, if ever. However they are not a 1.2 problem

 

2. comments regarding pvp game balance are wrong and come from an undergeared player point of view. Sorry game is balanced around end game gear .

you dont know what your talking about, my responses are in orange

 

my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

 

Ok, more pvp content is content nonetheless, ilum can not sustain pvp due to game engine

i didnt say no content, i said they removed ilum in which they hyped all to hell and never could get right to run in a decent manner (see videos in my sig)

 

2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp.

 

You can not force players into a certain content, best they can do is make it possible (pvp servers).

 

i play on a pvp server, and they could have put a set of quests that warned in the questline that the player would be going into the territory of the opposite faction but give better rewards than regular pve quests. that would have been incentive and not forced because people could choose to not do them.

 

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

 

If you are undergeared yep thats how it feels like, however when u get properly geared this problem will disappear. It is not the games fault, it is yours for being undergeared.Same gear progression in PvE, you can not complete harder operation modes without the appropriated gear.

 

wrong. my bounty hunter has 1261 expertise in all augmented warhero gear, if more than one person targets me im down before i can get through 1 rotation.

 

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

 

True, however this is not a "new" thing, been like this since release and not since 1.2

thats been my point, see my videos on youtube in my signature.

 

5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter)

 

Once again, your problem is GEAR related, not game balance related, every class sucks if it is undergeared, it is not a bounty hounter specific problem, its a gear gap problem.

see number 3 response, you have no idea what your talking about

 

6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless

 

This comment made no sense, as is a matter of preference... don't like something? don't use it. problem solved

it makes sense to people that had legacy gear in wow. the point of legacy gear in wow was to have gear at lvl 1 that had experience bonus up to 40 percent increase and stats that scaled each level so you wouldnt have to worry about gear till 5 levels before max level

 

7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best.

 

What did you expect? as long as their purpose was to not break pvp with it, what else do you think they could have done with it?

with as much hype they were throwing out there i was expecting the second coming of darth vader

 

8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE.

 

Considering that at war hero gear level, pvp has never been more balanced, i have to say it does not matter how many heads are on 1 type of content as long as they do it right.

you play a maruader i bet. it is definately not balanced at war hero, thats what i have been talking about the whole time

 

9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date.

 

Yes, that sucked, while on one side it was a marketing decision, can you even imagine how much worse the game balance qq would have been from undergeared ppl? While i do not like having to wait for rated WZ and would die for ARENA ingame, they did the right decision in waiting.

they hyped it to hell and waited to a couple of hours before the patch was implemented before making a statement it wasnt going to be in the game. that was pretty shady.

 

10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not.

 

I would have liked that, but the majority of players would have not... because they already whine about premades. How do you think they will react to 8 ppl premade who also considerably outgear them. Infinity whines from non premades and free gear for the premades.

 

 

11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time.

 

They anticipated way more players to stay after the first month, while the server number was ok for launch time, they should have merged servers afterwards .

 

12. there is no way to server transfer.

 

Server merge would be better.

 

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

Again, this is true, it sucks, i hate it. However it is not a new 1.2 problem, been like this since the start.

 

these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money.

everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came.

 

If you are talking about pvp, you are wrong; pvp never been better. You are like the guy in full centurion complaining about ppl in full BM beating on him pre 1.2 right? well consider the gear gap (due to expertise) between recruit and war hero is even bigger than it was between centurion and BM.

check the videos in my signature and look at the dates they were uploaded. i was never in centurian gear, i skipped it because when i started gearing up it was too easy to get champion gear and not even worry about centurian. again you dont know what you are talking about

 

 

unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve.

 

and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free).

 

hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are.

 

 

thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

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wine wine wine, thats all the forums are. you must just be a noob or some ****, cause if im winning... pvp is fun to me. lol. I actually love the changes to pvp, and think you are being a baby about it. i dont agree with some of them, but whatever. driving in circles for armorments isnt as fun as you think you remember. I do not understand though why they would not allow us to have 8 man q's, or rated wz, but they will come soon enough. btw, this game runs perfectly on my "high end pc" so I dont know your problem. i have a core i5 clocked to 4.2 ghz, 8gb ram, and a gtx 460 card, and have never had any lag or issues at all;
see my signature videos. (that doesnt look like driving in circles)

 

the reason you have never experienced "lag" issues is because you drove in circles on ilum and never actually expereinced the "pvp" side of things there. again look at my videos of ilum in my signature.

 

forgot to add, your pc is not "high end". its medium/low end now.

my rig (when built) was an enthusiast rig, now its more along the lines of mid tier and its got a evga sr2 classified mobo, 2.4 ghz intel xeon OC to 3.4, 12 gigs of corsair xms3 ddr3 1600mhz ram, evga gtx580sc, 1500w silverstone psu, 80gig intel ssd bootdrive (with swtor installed) 2 wd 1 tb 7200 caviar blue hdds.

Edited by Vulgarr
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.....

 

my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

 

Ilum was trash in the design, development, and release stages. It was total garbage from the time they started coding it. It never worked. That's why it's gone. It wasn't even an attempt it was so bad. Utter garbage and a waste of development resources.

before they took it out we had the weekly and daily quest we could do (i could get the weekily done (kill 150 people or get 150 marks) in one hour or less there. they took our dailys out and left us with 1 daily and 1 weekly that we have to do warzones for. now i get teamed up with people in pugs that have no gear (when i i normally have a chance to play, to attempt my dailiies. it usually takes a week now to get a daily done on my server because everyone has apparently quit or went to fatman. they have over 30 pve dailes and just 2 pvp dailies now.

 

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

 

It's not that bad imo, but it could use some help. Bioware copied WoW's "pvp in a box" model, along with the tiered gear. I was expecting something evolutionary in the least, not a copy/paste job.

 

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

 

What?! The game rendering clientside is not the same as the networking code that optimizes client and server communication. Each has its optimizations and specific code sets. Your hardware, the client side code for game rendering, the number and latency to, servers between you and the host, and the server farm itself hosting your session all play a part in your experience. Good lord you're way out in left field here.

 

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

Again, you're not talking to this clearly at all. Generalizations about systems you don't know. The game itself runs well, albeit not perfect, on most systems, including mine and my friend's.

 

just watch my ilum videos in my signature or the one comparing bf3 to this games performance and you will see what im talking about. if you think that video bf3 comparing the performance of civil war is decent performance then that explains why you said this. 30 frames a second in a pc game is NOT "running well". 30fps is just PLAYABLE. BARELY.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

Edited by Vulgarr
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You don't have to think it, but they DO!

 

Incentive drives us all in MMOs. Titles, armor, tokens, stuff...it doesn't matter what it is, but players want to be compensated for their TIME. World PvP is no different. Consumables, cosmetics or time limited buffs would be preferable rewards for PvP IMO...but rewards (incentive) MUST be given.

 

I would world PvP for fun only, if there was simply more opportunities to world PvP.

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my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp.

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter)

6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless

7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best.

8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE.

9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date.

10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not.

11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time.

12. there is no way to server transfer.

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money.

everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came.

 

unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve.

 

and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free).

 

hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are.

 

 

thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

 

 

 

 

I agree, PVP sucks since the update.

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good on you! let bioware know what needs to change if they want to keep this game afloat. the fanbois sure aren't going to get things moving in the right direction. they just endlessly spout "we love this game!" and "Bioware is the best!" I wish it wouldn't take people unsubing before Bioware listened. by that point the game has to fight an uphill battle to get someone back instead of the easier battle to keep someone who currently has a sub.
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I agree with the OP. I actually feel like over all balance was better at launch but now with Crutchpertise inflation eclipsing actual skill and the anemic PvP player pools (at least on my server), I see no reason to continue paying for my subscription. Unfortunately, I see a lot of similarity between why I left Warhammer Online with SWTOR but I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering who is heading up PvP development here. It's a shame past experiences were not a good enough teacher..
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my reasons:

 

1. the developers removed ilum.

2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp.

3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open.

4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out.

5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter)

6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless

7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best.

8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE.

9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date.

10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not.

11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time.

12. there is no way to server transfer.

13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems????

 

these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money.

everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came.

 

unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve.

 

and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free).

 

hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are.

 

 

thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed.

 

(comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

 

These are the most fail reasons ever.

So happy people like you are leaving.

 

1: Expertise changes ruined game? As with ANY mmo the game is designed for end game gear. Do you have War Hero gear? No. Just another noob that has no idea whats going on crying.

 

2: there was a lot of world pvp during the rakghoul event. you could also go looking for it. Does your mom still cook your dinner or do you make it yourself?

 

3:Horrible on the most advanced computers? I run this game 80-100fps with AMD phenom II 975 (4.2GHz) & AMD 6870. 325$ combine. I built a budget rigg with a 6770 and AMD 960t that runns it at 60fps +/-. 220$ combine. L2 use a computer.

 

4: Nerfed BH? I assume you are talking about Mercenary BH becasue PT is legit. Yeah, you cant 2 shot people now..... They are still good healers, but you face roll, so you probably just spammed missles. Pyro is still viable i have fun playing it on my alt, baddie.

 

5: I love the new cry baby generation. I WANT IT NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!..... Patients cry baby. With almost every patch they have fix issues.

 

^^^ Server xfers are coming. Rated WZs are coming.

 

So happy spoiled i need it now babys are bouncing. Later bro.

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more crys from a fellen op nub basically you want a gear game not a skill game the funiest bit was the 1.2 expertise nerfs made me die before i can get a combo rotation off lol you must suck try moveing maybe instead of standing on the spot trying to tank with a ranged class lols
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I tend to agree with the OP. Just look at the scores of most of the warzone matches. Theyre not even close. Youre either steamrolling or being steamrolled. Went 1 for 15 over the last 2 days, worst stretch ever for me and I keep getting better and acquiring better gear (pug/mostly BM/800exp). Lots of factors playing into this, but yeah I feel something is not quite right here.
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