Myths About Marauders

[GrandMike]

Dont nerf me bro!

[TheGreatNeechi]

Dont nerf me bro!

 

Well, if the nerf is a problem, I just happen to have this taser........

[Odahviin]

Tank sin DPS is nowhere near that of a mara, it's the fact that they're... you know... tanks? Outlasting you for the kill != same or better DPS.

 

I don't believe you have a adequate under standing of pvp endgame. Tanksins end game late 50 dominate. Try asking around they dps heal themselves stealth AND tank. I'm actually surprised the focus on mara / sent and not the SIN / Shadow AC.

 

1.2 the SIN / Shadow AC is superior to a mara / sent in pretty much all respects.

[Astarica]

Right. Sorry. Still doesn't change the fact that they're killing me while I'm NOT killing them.

 

As far as I can tell, Marauder mitigation is slightly higher than a Tankasin while Cloak of Pain is active, and it's active about half of the time. Since I do not auto-lose to a Marauder when they have Cloak of Pain, this implies I have to be doing comparable damage in order to beat a class that often has a higher base mitigation.

 

Tankasin isn't just about the defense.

[Nyjin]

As far as I can tell, Marauder mitigation is slightly higher than a Tankasin while Cloak of Pain is active, and it's active about half of the time. Since I do not auto-lose to a Marauder when they have Cloak of Pain, this implies I have to be doing comparable damage in order to beat a class that often has a higher base mitigation.

 

Tankasin isn't just about the defense.

 

I don't know exact numbers (I don't really calculate when fighting for my life PVPing a Tank-sin), but either case could be true.

 

Whether it's the Tankiness, DPS, or the combination of the two (which is most likely), Sents/Maras have considerable trouble with Tank-sins.

[da_krall]

Everything I hear about marauders nowadays is that they are unkillable and uncounterable tanks that 2 shot everything with ravage and are unbeatable in 1v1 and so on. So I feel like I should clear up some of these "myths".

 

Myth #1- Marauders are the best 1v1 class.

 

I'll start by saying. NOPE. In fact marauders actually lose to A LOT of classes 1v1. I will list the classes that will beat marauders given equal gear and skill.

 

Tankassins

DPS operatives

Snipers

Vigilance Juggernauts

 

Those are 4/7 of the other classes that when played correctly will beat a marauder in 1v1. Other classes are either stalemates or in the marauders favor. Most notably Marauders have a very large advantage against Mercenaries and Sorcerers. This is probably the biggest reason marauders are catching so much hate. They counter the two most popular classes played.

 

 

Myth #2 - Marauders are harder to kill than tanks.

 

Again. NOPE. To prove this just have a marauder try to carrying the huttball with 2-3 healers behind him. He will die in <30 seconds from 6+ dps simply because his defenses are very temporary. Now take a Tank Juggernaut with 2-3 healers behind him. He can /dance for hours with 6 dps hitting him(especially if they are marauders who have to deal with their shields unlike most classes)

 

Also god forbid a pure melee class with 0 frontloaded damage and minimal CC isn't easily focus fired and killed for 12 seconds if they burn their 3 min CD defense.

 

 

Myth #3 - Marauders are unstoppable in Group PVP.

 

Surprise. NOPE. To start with marauders get absolutely destroyed by Snipers in group pvp. The fact that their aren't many is a problem, but not a reason to nerf Marauders. Secondly Marauders do exceedingly well against Arsenal Mercs and Sorcerers. The fact is there are A LOT sorcerers and mercs running around and so Marauders tend to do very well against these teams. Marauders also don't handle any kind of Tank well at all in PVP due to the majority of their damage being mitigated by Shields.

 

So basically marauders counter the most popular classes while being countered themselves by the least popular class. Solution? Find a few good snipers to PVP with, or better yet stop playing a sorcerer/trooper and reroll Sniper if you want to win vs marauders easily. It will fix the population imbalance AND help counter marauders. So basically like the other 99% of things complained about on the forums "There are counters to the problem that you should be using instead of trying to nerf everything that has an advantage over you. If you don't know what they are then ask someone who does know.".

 

Myth #4- Marauders are finally topping "Damage Done" in WZs

 

NOP......Actually this isn't a myth. Marauders are now actually competing for the top dps slot along with classes like Sorcerers/Pyrotechs/Snipers. I don't really see how this is a problem though. 99% of marauders rolled the class because they wanted to do the most damage in the game. They decided it was worth sacrificing the option to ever tank, or to heal, or to have gaurd/taunt, or to have a pull/knockback, or having good CC, or to have any ranged abilities. So basically you have a class that sacrifices basically EVERYTHING just to have top spot for damage dealing. So now that they actually are competing for that top spot people are complaining about it?

Myth #5- Marauders are unkiteable.

 

In a 1v1 battle I will agree that it is very difficult to impossible for most classes to kite a well played marauder for very long and this is fine(However a hybrid Sorc or Sniper can do a VERY good job of kiting 1v1). However in a group setting where you have 2-3 ranged classes with aoe knockback+roots on ~30s CD it happens quite a bit. Marauders have no real way to remain in melee combat with 3 snipers/sorcerers that chain JUST their aoe knockbacks. Now currently this is almost never seen in the current unorganized mess of PVP we have going on right now, but it does in fact happen with some regularity where a marauder is overwhelmed by soft CC like knockback/roots and is unable to even do ANY damage. All the ledges in many of the WZs and the fact that roots are not affected by resolve does not help at all.

 

 

So the next time you are making a post about how Overpowered Marauders are. Please don't over exaggerated about how a marauder is some kind of unstoppable force of nature with no counters, because that just isn't true. Are marauders in need of a few tweaks here and there? I don't know actually because like 99% of the people on these forums I am not in a position to judge something as complex as MMO class balance. But if you must argue for or against marauder nerfs please try to base it on something more substantial than "OMG marauders counter everything and there is an 8 man premade of marauders that beats everything"

 

Edit- Apparently most of the anti-Marauder, or maybe I should say Anti-FOTM, crowd didn't even bother to read the last sentence, but I will say I did actually enjoy the "I win all 1v3s on my Marauder! enjoy the nerfs to your OP class" post. Well carry on everyone.

 

TLDR- NOPE.

 

Myth #6- Marauders wont make stuff up to try to protect the OP class

 

Marauders arent OP the people that use them are just all better than anyoen else. Even if you have several 50s. When you play your marauder you actually do play better than on your other classes as they make you more skilled.

[DweezillKagemand]

Myth #6- Marauders wont make stuff up to try to protect the OP class

 

Marauders arent OP the people that use them are just all better than anyoen else. Even if you have several 50s. When you play your marauder you actually do play better than on your other classes as they make you more skilled.

 

Wait, what?

[Seravis]

As far as I can tell, Marauder mitigation is slightly higher than a Tankasin while Cloak of Pain is active, and it's active about half of the time. Since I do not auto-lose to a Marauder when they have Cloak of Pain, this implies I have to be doing comparable damage in order to beat a class that often has a higher base mitigation.

 

Tankasin isn't just about the defense.

 

Tankasins actually have noticeably lower damage than marauders, but they have much more utility (Pull/gaurd/taunt/etc) as well as very good passive defense against Marauders/Snipers in the form of their shield generator + dark ward.

 

As for why they generally beat marauders 1v1 that is more due to them having a "counter" to all of a marauders offensive and defensive CDs as well as very high passive mitigation against our white damage and a self cleanse for the bleeds on top of the ability to temporarily kite. It is still a very close fight that can go either way depending on how much of the marauders damage are crits/parries/shielded.

[Halefthaut]

Vigilance Juggernauts

 

 

Who else stopped reading here?

[Magnesium]

Eh, anyone who has done enough PvP in this game and seen the various changes over time and how it seems "most" of the population decided to level a Sent/Mara knows clearly why this is.

 

I know people who play the class and understand completely they need a nerf and even expect one to happen at some point (soon hopefully) because come rated they will be the key class to bring into WZs.

 

I don't mind people sticking up for their class, I would do exactly the same, but there is a point where you have to see the facts from true perspective. The main issue is that the class is too strong in the hands of a good player and bad players make it seem weaker than it is.

 

The fact that I tend to see 4+ Warriors in each WZ against me now is by no means a coincidence and lot of them new 50s for sure who are working on gear and will only get better/stronger.

[Vetril]

If you cannot kill a marauder you are either:

 

A: Undergeared

 

B: A noob

 

 

Ajunta Pall players can kill marauders. Why cant the rest of you monkeys?

 

So which is it? A or B?

 

True story.

[Vetril]

The fact that I tend to see 4+ Warriors in each WZ against me now is by no means a coincidence and lot of them new 50s for sure who are working on gear and will only get better/stronger.

 

People in a Star Wars MMORPG playing lightsaber wielding warriors. You don't say.

[Dacer]

Eh, anyone who has done enough PvP in this game and seen the various changes over time and how it seems "most" of the population decided to level a Sent/Mara knows clearly why this is.

 

I know people who play the class and understand completely they need a nerf and even expect one to happen at some point (soon hopefully) because come rated they will be the key class to bring into WZs.

 

I don't mind people sticking up for their class, I would do exactly the same, but there is a point where you have to see the facts from true perspective. The main issue is that the class is too strong in the hands of a good player and bad players make it seem weaker than it is.

 

The fact that I tend to see 4+ Warriors in each WZ against me now is by no means a coincidence and lot of them new 50s for sure who are working on gear and will only get better/stronger.

 

ppl doesn't seem to mind when there are 8+ inquistors in a warzone... infact i played a game today (again) where i was the only warrior. but there were 10 inquistors.

[Funick]

I agree with the OP on almost everything.

 

However, I will list the order that I (personally) have trouble with the four classes described:

 

1a. Operative/Scoundrel (If he gets the jump on me, I'm basically screwed if I don't have all my CDs. With CDs, I have a small chance of winning/surviving).

 

1b. Sniper/Gunslinger (The sniper will peck at me from afar...I can't leap to him...he has roots...he has comparable DPS...and a dodge. Unless I'm Focus-specced, it'll be tough. If we're on even footing, I'd say the match-up is a 70-30 ratio in favor of the sniper).

 

2. Tank-sin (They can DPS pretty much as well as me. Survive better than me. And Stealth. That's fun, right?)

 

3. Vigilance Guard (Tough, but not a game-breaker. 60-40 in favor of the Marauder, in my opinion.)

 

I used Fighting-game match-ups, because I play fighting-games too...

 

Yep, that's about it.

 

post 1.2 operative is only beating me if they have the jump on me, have all cool downs and i have no cool downs rdy. even then it takes them too long to count on you not getting helped. dps operatives need to stop getting nerfed, I honestly don't see the point in playing one anymore.

 

tank-sin yes these will beat us most of the time, dueling the best one in my guild he beat me 8/9 times both of us using all cds but he never beat me with more than 10% health left (he choose not to use the stealth sap heal trick) these are long fights where you can call out for help and usually get it in time. the duels were pre 1.2 but watchman sentinel changes shouldn't really do much to this match up.

 

sniper/gunslinger I've never really seen any good enough to do more than annoy me with roots/punts. I agree in theory they should destroy me even a bad one locking me down with roots/punts can make me an easy kill/keep me off my targets. roots are sentinel's greatest weakness, an organized team could theoretically keep me rooted in place indefinitely, with only my stealth to reposition with.

 

vigilance guardian i never noticed as an issue. last time i dueled one he raged for a few days so not sure where the issue is here.

 

sentinel is too strong, it was pre 1.2, still is post 1.2 what makes this worse is how they've nerfed the mercs and sorcs which were already too weak and easily destroyed by any decent sentinel. most of 1.2 was quality of life changes for sentinel but that they went ahead and increased master strike damage was completely uncalled for, in return for the quality of life buffs they should have slightly lowered damage of a few abilities

[Dmasterr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyranoc

If you cannot kill a marauder you are either:

 

A: Undergeared

 

B: A noob

 

 

Ajunta Pall players can kill marauders. Why cant the rest of you monkeys?

 

So which is it? A or B?

 

True story.

Thing is, that while things are ok, between good players.

 

To understand the qqers you need to go down to noob level to see their pov.

 

Their pov being : everything is overpowered and underpowered AT THE SAME TIME.

[Magnesium]

People in a Star Wars MMORPG playing lightsaber wielding warriors. You don't say.

 

Troll harder.

[Magnesium]

ppl doesn't seem to mind when there are 8+ inquistors in a warzone... infact i played a game today (again) where i was the only warrior. but there were 10 inquistors.

 

Yea, but what were the Inquisitors?

 

Assassins (Tank/DPS) or Sorcs (Heals/DPS)

 

When you have so many warriors you pretty much have them all DPS setup and using the skills which can be determined as doing too much damage currently. Even Juggs spec DPS for that same purpose.

[eventidephoenix]

Marauder has disadvantages only for bad players playing marauders.

 

A good player playing marauder will never have a problem with anything, and this was true pre 1.2 as well .

 

ditto that... especially if he has a pocket healer...

[MMOgamer]

ditto that... especially if he has a pocket healer...

 

LOL WUT? Any dps class is boss with a pocket healer.

[Ganjavus]

I'm not into numbers but I'd like to donate two cents in this discussion. In my opinion it's all so much more circumstancial (setup/ experience / gear of your team and opponents) how people perform in a wz, compared to most numbers and 'skill' - arguments for nerf and the 'I always do 500K damagorxz' one reads here.

 

All I can say is that, as annihalation marauder, haven't noticed that much of a difference damagewise, nor in amount of kills per wz, between pre- and post 1.2.

What I do notice, is that quite some people seem to have returned to this game and don't know how to counter a marauder. Probably like they didn't before 1.2, but hey, one needs a bat to spank your frustration with, right? (Or whatever the proper english saying might be).

I'm encountering ranged classes of all sorts, standing still and popping all their CD's, while I tear up their faces, letting me ravage and stack bleeds on them continuously and then saying I'm OP?

Pah - lease.

I kept on playing, so yeah, I got more experience and full BM now (playing semi-casual and a fair amount of PVE, that's why I'm not WH)

And all the opponents on my server that continued playing as well, know EXACTLY how to give me a hard *** time in a wz.

So please, go play and learn how to burn down, or even control a mara/ sent. It's really not that hard.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Ganjavus

[Tyranoc]

Noobs crying because they suck at PvP and need to find a reason for it other than the obvious fact that they just cant play.

 

This thread is full of win.

 

QQ more noobs, you tears sustain me.

 

 

Now please excuse me whilst i spam ravage, annihilate and deadly throw againts your fellow noobs so they too can join the QQ crusade.

[Seravis]

Kids are still crying about Operative?

 

Its only been nerfed like 8 times

 

I'm not sure where you see complaining about Operatives here. Operatives do in fact beat marauders 1v1, but that doesn't mean Operatives are Overpowered. It just that marauders actually lose to many classes 1v1 which most people seem to not realize(or ignore). In fact I find dps Operatives to be in a very poor place right now. They have no place in group PVP and aren't even the best 1v1 class in the game. The class needs a complete overhaul so Operatives don't potentially killing people in stunlocks which is what most (bad) players complain about, but also have some sort of survivability in group PVP. A stealth burst class that is "super effective" against bad players will always catch the most hate.

[Kovaos]

LOL tired thread is tired............

 

There are three more of these posts just today, seriously. So face it, changes are coming, there is nothing these posts are going to do to stop it.

 

This issue is wearing our very quickly. When a class has to defend themselves so much there is an issue. It doesn't necessarily mean the issue is with the class, rather the environment the class has around it. All of the developments of this game up to today have favored sents/maras.

 

The class will only be balanced when the TTK is much longer.

[Kovaos]

If you cannot kill a marauder you are either:

 

A: Undergeared

 

B: A noob

 

 

Ajunta Pall players can kill marauders. Why cant the rest of you monkeys?

 

So which is it? A or B?

 

So now marauders can't kill anyone that isn't a noob or undergeared? Your logic is just bad.

[TheMunny]

Everything I hear about marauders nowadays is that they are unkillable and uncounterable tanks that 2 shot everything with ravage and are unbeatable in 1v1 and so on. So I feel like I should clear up some of these "myths".

 

I'm gonna say it one more time:

 

When I can watch a keyboard turning, mouse clicking buddy literally wipe the floor with his Mara in a WZ... All I can say is "wow". Usually when we duel he will just spin circles and click away to a 50% win ratio. I have also seen him click win against other people in duels. I have PvP'd in WoW for years and I have never seen a keyboard turning person win as much.

 

OP? maybe, maybe not but they have a few abilities that needs a serious looking into. Anyone of these abilities is more than ample for a class if you had just one of them:

 

Undying Rage

Instant

Cooldown: 90s

Spends 50% of current health to grant 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds.

 

 

Obfuscate

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Range: 4 m

Obscures the target's vision, reducing its melee and ranged accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds. Cannot be used on Operation bosses. This ability does not respect the global cooldown.

 

 

Gore

Instant

Cooldown: 15s

Range: 4 m

Gores the target for 645 - 779 weapon damage and grants Gore for 6 seconds, which increases armor penetration by 100%. Requires two lightsabers.

 

 

These 3 abilities alone make vanilla rogues look weak. Giving 1 class these 3 abilities is beyond ridiculous. Either they need to be adjusted or the cool down period needs a serious looking into.

Edited April 27, 2012 by TheMunny