Moonheart_S Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 This line would be so much better, if you actually did two things: 1. State which defensive stat is superior to armor (and please don't be covering your *** by stating "in my opinion", because math has yet to become an opinion even on the internet) The point is you said that very few attacks bypass armor. That's awfully wrong in pvp, where almost 50% of the attack you receive deal internal/elemental damage which isn't reduced by armor. I think this is why he said you have an obvious lack of knowledge... even if the way he said it is close to trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) The point is you said that very few attacks bypass armor. That's awfully wrong in pvp, where almost 50% of the attack you receive deal internall/elemental damage which isn't reduced by armor. That would be blatantly false. You may mistake force/tech attacks and internal/elemental damage. Those are two different things. There are very few internal/elemental damage attacks. Take our own class for example and compare the ratio between kinetic/energy abilities vs. elemental/internal and then look at the damage they deal. Most internal/elemental damage abilities are damage over time abilities, low on damage or have heavy cooldowns. Slow Time - Kinetic Telekinetic Throw - Kinetic Project - Kinetic Saber Strike - Kinetic Double Strike - Kinetic Clarivoyant Strike - Kinetic Low Slash - Kinetic Shadow Strike - Kinetic Spinning Strike - Kinetic Mind Crush - Kinetic Force Wave - Kinetic Force Stun - Kinetic Force Slow - Kinetic Spinning Kick - Kinetic Sever Force - Internal DoT Force Breach - Kinetic DoT 9s CD(Force), Internal low damage 15s CD (Kinetic), Internal 15s (12s talented) CD (Shadow) Force in Balance - Internal 15s CD Shadows are no exception. Most classes follow that formula in their damage. It's even worse for non-DPS trees, as they usually have pretty much nothing but kinetic/energy damage. Edited May 16, 2012 by Payneintherear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonheart_S Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 That would be blatantly false. You may mistake force/tech attacks and internal/elemental damage. Those are two different things. There are very few internal/elemental damage attacks. No, I don't mistake them at all. There is a difference about the number of attacks that use internal/elemental damage and how much they are used. You have to understand that players are not NPC. They don't just use all the ability they have equaly. If they have 3 kinetic damage attacks and 1 internal, they are not going to use them 25%/25%/25%/25%, no no no... they are going to think "OMG, the fourth bypass all those *********** tanks armor! I'm going to spam it on them as much as I can!" (at least, if they have a brain) So, as soon you show a bit of tankyness, you have immediately players putting their internal/elemental damage on top of their priority list for the use of their force/rage/munitions. Look a bit how a shadow will be played in infiltration/balance: As soon an internal damage ability is up, you hit it. Always. Sever Force? Force in Balance? Shadow technique's Force Breach? Spam it! Everyone will say it. Everyone will write in their rotation. Also all specs/classes that have mainly almost no internal/elemental damage will soon learn to target rather a low-armor target than a high-armor one (because this one will be harder to kill), leading the balance between damage type even swtich more toward internal/elemental for you if you are a "tank" It is possible I go a bit far by saying 50% of attacks a tank recieve in pvp is internal/elemental. But at least, believe me, that's not "rare" at all. You recieve some constantly in level 50 warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Can you parse a standard combat log of yours and post the results? Because, frankly, as I have posted and shown above, internal/elemental skills are not just limited in their actual presence but also limited by either being DoTs, low damage output or long cooldowns (or any combination of the three). When I parse my combat log, the kinetic to internal damage ratio is more like 90% kinetic vs. 10% internal in terms of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The point is you said that very few attacks bypass armor. That's awfully wrong in pvp, where almost 50% of the attack you receive deal internal/elemental damage which isn't reduced by armor. I think this is why he said you have an obvious lack of knowledge... even if the way he said it is close to trolling. No, I don't mistake them at all. There is a difference about the number of attacks that use internal/elemental damage and how much they are used. You have to understand that players are not NPC. They don't just use all the ability they have equaly. .... You're still WAY off thinking that anywhere near 50% of overall PvP damage going around is internal/elemental. It's more like 20% on a whole. There are specific situational/class/spec exceptions where that can go higher, but when you put it all together as a whole, it's not nearly as high as you are thinking. Pretty much all of the good abilities that do that damage type are cooldown limited. And they are typically already prioritized for general dps purposes...there's not much room to prioritize them more. In the rare case of ones that can be spammed like Ion Pulse/Flame Burst, it's nerfing your own damage to try to outright spam them just because of their damage type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desekraetorr Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Too much theorycrafting.... Just pump Power to a level you are comfortable, throw in other "desired" stats and start killing people. Resistance or not, with enough power you'd still do 800 normal damage and 3k-ish crit damage to heavy armor users. Yellow or white - looks the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Too much theorycrafting.... Just pump Power to a level you are comfortable, throw in other "desired" stats and start killing people. Resistance or not, with enough power you'd still do 800 normal damage and 3k-ish crit damage to heavy armor users. Yellow or white - looks the same to me. I can get a 4.7k crit on our WH-geared Guardian Tank when the stars align. He has 25000 hp and 1240 Expertise if anyone wishes to know. Edited May 16, 2012 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desekraetorr Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I can get a 4.7k crit on our WH-geared Guardian Tank when the stars align. He has 25000 hp and 1240 Expertise if anyone wishes to know. I imagine: twin disciples, power CD's, infil tactics, and the poor guardian is alone without any supporting buffs, I pity the guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hey Shin I'm just wondering due to gear my force has 110% accuracy and 100% for meele should I change these mods for more power if so why? (due to the 10% by pass armor) All you need is 95-97% melee accuracy/ 105-107% Force Accuracy. Anything over that is too much. It doesn't work like armour pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMLDestroyer Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Xin I'm curious about your 0/13/28 build. What periodic ability are you using that's consuming Force Supression charges? Edit- NVM I get it now it's just that you need the 2 points to reach mental scarring. Edited May 19, 2012 by FMLDestroyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yes, that's why Mind Ward and Pinning Resolve are maxxed out. Sharpened Mind is even more useless for the hybrid build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wohast Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 OP, you and your guild should transfer over to Ajunta Pall. A lot of big pvp names are going there if server xfers allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) OP, you and your guild should transfer over to Ajunta Pall. A lot of big pvp names are going there if server xfers allow it. We're losing interest in this game, sadly. Lack of rateds, dying servers, boring objectives, pugs. This game has lost it's touch and it's evident BW's incompetence is ongoing. My patience is wearing thin. Edited May 20, 2012 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonJin Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) hey shin, what are the stats for infiltration spec should i be going for? im currently 1642 wp, 1212 expertise 579 power, 99.25% and 29.31 fully buffed. Edited May 23, 2012 by DemonJin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 hey shin, what are the stats for infiltration spec should i be going for? im currently 1642 wp, 1212 expertise 579 power, 99.25% and 29.31 fully buffed. Infiltration requires as much Power stacking as possible. My armoury is geared for it, you can check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swidgin Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 could you be so kind as to tell me the way to get advance resolved Arm 27? The mod u put into your bracers & belt. 52 end 72 wp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Gearing for Power is the best thing for Infiltration. For anyone coming right off a "kit" gearset, they are looking for as much as they can get. Although, there are eventually ideal stat balances for best overall damage and performance. Where that balance exists is very complex and specific to each gearset. However, as a very general rule of thumb: If you quantity of points in Power is more than 2x your points in Critical, you've gone too far with Power stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desekraetorr Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 However, as a very general rule of thumb: If you quantity of points in Power is more than 2x your points in Critical, you've gone too far with Power stacking. I got 700-800 points on Power, and only 100++ on crit so that's over 7x my crit points. You're saying that this is bad with constant crits on D-strike and particle accel-ed project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You sure showed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 ... and particle accel-ed project? ... for Infiltration. Crit is less valuable for Kinetic because of Particle Acceleration. Although, I'm not sure why you'd think you're getting constant crits on Double Strike. Regardless, ideal stat balance just ends up in a different place. The first couple hundred points of Critical give incredibly good return per point. Going from something like adding Power to a set that already has 800 is nowhere near as effective per point as adding it to a set with only 200. It's just how the math works out at different points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desekraetorr Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Even I do not know why my Dstrike has 60% crit, meaning, one of the two strikes WILL ALWAYS crit. Never did my d-strike do normal damage on BOTH strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Even I do not know why my Dstrike has 60% crit, meaning, one of the two strikes WILL ALWAYS crit. Never did my d-strike do normal damage on BOTH strikes. It might seem that way (the bigger numbers do tend to get noticed more often than the little ones)... But if you're running ~100 crit like you say, you have about 22% crit chance +5% smuggler buff + 9% after getting a force crit. 36%... So, with probability with the two DS hits... 13% both hits crit 46% one hit crits 41% neither hit crits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 It might seem that way (the bigger numbers do tend to get noticed more often than the little ones)... But if you're running ~100 crit like you say, you have about 22% crit chance +5% smuggler buff + 9% after getting a force crit. 36%... So, with probability with the two DS hits... 13% both hits crit 46% one hit crits 41% neither hit crits But, but...everytime I get a crit, it is a crit, I tell ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 You sure showed him. These forums sure are overly hostile at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigUten Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi. I have been watching your videos for sometime now and I just want your feedback on my stats. I am on KB tree and currently have 4/5 WH gear, 1 Piece Black Hole and 1 Campaign on my current set up. 1568 Endurance 1527 Willpower 980 Expertise ( My end game set up would give me 1100 expertise without affecting the other stats) (Melee) Melee Primary Damage 882-1107 (With Force Might Buff) Bonus Damage 492 Accuracy 96% Crit 19% Surge 76% (Force) Bonus Damage 792 Accuracy 106% Crit 18% Surge 76% I can hit 5k Project most of the time and constant 3k-4k Project. Highest TK is 2.5k each. My question is how important is the soft cap 35% crit. I have very low crit rate but i do constantly see crits on my hits which shows that it's not really an issue. I just love stacking power so much that i disregard crit and soft cap my surge. Thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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