Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

[vandana_]

Thank you for a very good post! I completely agree with your points.

 

It's been 4 months since launch and I must say I loved the game in the beginning but the initial charm passed and I have some bitter words to say. ( I'm not talking about lack of content, I like the pace at which content is introduced. I liked the world event. There is always something to do for a player like me who has 4-5 hours per day to play. What I also like?

1) voice overs - genius, makes levelling a whole new experience

2) combat animations and sound - feels like I'm in SW movie

3) stories - I have only maxed 1 character but started several others

and they all seem compelling

 

Now, unfortunately, there are things that make me wonder if I should I invest my time (and money) into your

game further (ENGINE FLAWS so well described in the OP's post). Frankly, if not the amazing people I met in the game and formed my guild with I would definitely leave the game at this very moment.

 

Your team seems to be amateurish (at least when it comes to MMOs development - sorry to say that but this impression has been growing in me for a long time now). When MMOs were starting their prosperity age 8 years ago companies making them could afford to learn from their mistakes. Unfortunately, those 8 years have passed, it's not acceptable anymore and you should hire someone with a solid grasp of the genre development to your every team. Right now it looks like you need another 5 years to get it right and I doubt your game engine is repairable at all to be honest.

 

Please understand that I want to love this game. I love the SW franchise and the setting, Me and my guidlmates created a great community in it. But the technical flaws are so off-putting that if not the latter I would leave, forget and never look back.

 

I sincerely hope you can do something with that, you can hire someone capable of taking care of the game and that you can start acting professionally and see where real problems are (GAME ENGINE).

[Rowandiki]

This would explain why I can hear my 6990 Fan screaming for help when playing SWTOR.

I dusted out all the fan filters inspected inside for filth quilting but to no avail, spotless as usual.

CCC reports 86 degrees Celsius, it doesn't even get that hot during BF3.

It will be summer soon addanother 20 degrees to ambient.

Sorry but that is unplayable and i dont want my ATI card to melt through the Earth's crust to try and find its way back to China.

 

I played on my laptop for a bit, it's humble core i5 2.4 6gb. I've always had a high tolerance for heat so I didn't notice until it got really hot but it cooked my hand. I'm not lying, my palm was darker the skin was soft and peeling. It looks wierd, now I wear gloves anytime I play on my laptop. Hand still hasn't fully healed.

[Tal-N]

In all fairness to Bioware I've seen performance improvements since 1.2 and even from launch to 1.1. The delay when getting onto and off of my speeder is almost completely gone now for example, most times it is seamless but on rare occasions there is a noticeable stutter.

 

The biggest concern now is still the fleet station, frame rates take a nosedive as it appears to cache all of the various gear people are wearing and all of the player models. Surely the resources needed to be kept in active memory cannot be that demanding since there is so few variations on armour at the moment other than the colour?

[Kanlin]

I don't have the heating issues or load issues anyone else does the most trouble I have had are certain rooms or cave areas lag other then game runs fine to me nothing game breaking. I don't have an uber computer either then again no two computers runs things the same schooled computer people should know that.

 

Keep your comp fans clean or use something instead of a laptop.

Notice how many game designers there are that pop up on forums when new MMO's come out.

[Goretzu]

I don't have the heating issues or load issues anyone else does the most trouble I have had are certain rooms or cave areas lag other then game runs fine to me nothing game breaking. I don't have an uber computer either then again no two computers runs things the same schooled computer people should know that.

 

Keep your comp fans clean or use something instead of a laptop.

Notice how many game designers there are that pop up on forums when new MMO's come out.

 

 

I very much doubt they even go Ilum to run well on an internal server.

[vandana_]

I don't have the heating issues or load issues anyone else does the most trouble I have had are certain rooms or cave areas lag other then game runs fine to me nothing game breaking. I don't have an uber computer either then again no two computers runs things the same schooled computer people should know that.

 

Keep your comp fans clean or use something instead of a laptop.

Notice how many game designers there are that pop up on forums when new MMO's come out.

 

It amazes me how people fail to understand the issue here. Stop trolling, my fan is fine thank you.

 

1) you don't have loading issues? you don't have loading screens you mean? wow, I envy you.

2) just because the game runs kind of, nothing gamebreaking for you doesn't mean it runs for everyone. Besides given how this games looks like - 1 year old computers should EAT it (I run Crysis 2 on max with 60 fps) and I still got like 5 fps in 24 man group on a world boss.

[Kanlin]

It amazes me how people fail to understand the issue here. Stop trolling, my fan is fine thank you.

 

1) you don't have loading issues? you don't have loading screens you mean? wow, I envy you.

2) just because the game runs kind of, nothing gamebreaking for you doesn't mean it runs for everyone. Besides given how this games looks like - 1 year old computers should EAT it (I run Crysis 2 on max with 60 fps) and I still got like 5 fps in 24 man group on a world boss.

 

Wait your mad cause of the loading screen it's up for like all of 20 seconds? lol

I am not trolling people constantly whine about issues and most of the time it's on their end improperly cleaned hardware a billion tasks running in the background anti virus programs not playing well with other programs possibilities are endless. Your second point means you didn't really pay attention to what I said considering you just repeated what I said in your attempt to make me look like a troll.

"I don't have an uber computer either then again no two computers runs things the same"

 

The games been out a couple of months and before the beta thing starts what works in beta doesn't mean it will work the same when it goes live and hence tweaks and fixes. Something game designers should know too.

[Surebleak]

I was able to run the game on my i7 gaming laptop fairly well except with about a half second of lag when I started an action even on low. Most of the time this wasn't an issue but getting away from the female Jedi in BT was almost impossible. So I bought an i7 gaming desktop so I could raid... When I d/l 1.2 to my laptop so I could do some running around while working on my desktop I found that the laptop was now pooched, things were incredibly jerky and there was no way I could play with it.

[Hitomo_x]

hey, former gmae developer, time has changed

and your pathetic demonstration of behind the scenes knowledge is really amusing

 

if you cant understand mmo tech just dont think about it, okay

 

giving the graphics of swtor and add all the calculation and traffficing

an mmo does in the background its not hard to understand why the

engine seems to suffering like its doing ...

 

but the reality is different ... there isnt an single mmo outhere

that could compete with swtors use of normalmapping, advanced lightening,

size of areas and level of detail ... and all the stat calculations in the background

an mmo with the graphics of swtor isnt soemthing that could be considered possible 2 years ago ...

 

if you think swtor isnt doing a good if not brilliant job with its graphics and database capabilities

you no nothing about how mmos work or whats needed to make them function

 

you need to take the word from the professionals,

swtor is doing an outstanding job tech-wise ...

you just cant expect to run a MMO of 2012 on a system that

was even oudated when WoW came out ...

[GroogOT]

This reminds me of another game that came out in which the players were constantly told to upgrade. So much so that it even became a major quote called "Buy more RAM". WWII Online had major performance issues when it first came out. Everyone that posted issues were told "Buy more RAM". Didn't matter what the issue, that was always the response they got. It was their computer, not the program. Fast-forward two years and finally the company admitted there was a coding problem with the game that caused performance issues and it was finally resolved.

 

It is easy to dismiss any claims of game performance by just labeling it an inferior PC, but what is being seen here is a wide spectrum of PC users with many different configurations all reporting issues. It shows this goes far beyond just someone not updating their PC.

 

Download moar ram!

[Holden_Dissent]

You want to see a game poorly optimized? Go back in time and play Vanguard when it was released.

[vandana_]

Wait your mad cause of the loading screen it's up for like all of 20 seconds? lol

 

Yes, that times many loading screens is too long and when you compare it to competition titles it is unacceptable (an no, not only WoW which has lower quality graphics but for example Rift)

 

I am not trolling people constantly whine about issues and most of the time it's on their end improperly cleaned hardware a billion tasks running in the background anti virus programs not playing well with other programs possibilities are endless. Your second point means you didn't really pay attention to what I said considering you just repeated what I said in your attempt to make me look like a troll.

"I don't have an uber computer either then again no two computers runs things the same"

 

I would argue about "most of the time". My computer is clean, my system is clean and I run other more graphically advanced games with no issues yet SWTOR runs like crap.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Zilrota
removed, rude.

[Rikeryo]

hey, former gmae developer, time has changed

and your pathetic demonstration of behind the scenes knowledge is really amusing

 

if you cant understand mmo tech just dont think about it, okay

 

giving the graphics of swtor and add all the calculation and traffficing

an mmo does in the background its not hard to understand why the

engine seems to suffering like its doing ...

 

but the reality is different ... there isnt an single mmo outhere

that could compete with swtors use of normalmapping, advanced lightening,

size of areas and level of detail ... and all the stat calculations in the background

an mmo with the graphics of swtor isnt soemthing that could be considered possible 2 years ago ...

 

if you think swtor isnt doing a good if not brilliant job with its graphics and database capabilities

you no nothing about how mmos work or whats needed to make them function

 

you need to take the word from the professionals,

swtor is doing an outstanding job tech-wise ...

you just cant expect to run a MMO of 2012 on a system that

was even oudated when WoW came out ...

 

ever played dc universe? nervermind, you comment implies that your are a clueless person. swtor is doing an awful job tech-wise, everybody knows that, proof is everywhere, no need to lie about that. and yes, even on 2012 system this engine performs bad compared to others. being designed for an mmo is not excuse for an engine to perform so horrible.

 

but seriously, you think swtor graphics are awesome for an mmo? really? wow, just wow.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Rikeryo

[vandana_]

Also I have a question to all those who say that game engine is flawless.

 

Why was Ilum world PvP removed?

Edited April 24, 2012 by vandana_

[Kthx]

I left the industry because too many non-gamers were entering it.

 

Using this "logic", a cancer researcher should not be able to do his work if he hadn't had cancer, an airplane designer must be a pilot, and a lawyer must be a criminal.

[SleepyJoeFriday]

hey, former gmae developer, time has changed

and your pathetic demonstration of behind the scenes knowledge is really amusing

 

if you cant understand mmo tech just dont think about it, okay

 

giving the graphics of swtor and add all the calculation and traffficing

an mmo does in the background its not hard to understand why the

engine seems to suffering like its doing ...

 

but the reality is different ... there isnt an single mmo outhere

that could compete with swtors use of normalmapping, advanced lightening,

size of areas and level of detail ... and all the stat calculations in the background

an mmo with the graphics of swtor isnt soemthing that could be considered possible 2 years ago ...

 

if you think swtor isnt doing a good if not brilliant job with its graphics and database capabilities

you no nothing about how mmos work or whats needed to make them function

 

you need to take the word from the professionals,

swtor is doing an outstanding job tech-wise ...

you just cant expect to run a MMO of 2012 on a system that

was even oudated when WoW came out ...

 

Try looking up EVE - Online, 8 years old, ONE server, ONE game instance, 65,000 players online simultaneously.

Sure it has a loading time between star systems, or when docking at stations, but no more than 20 seconds.

 

With SWTOR I regularly wait over 5 minutes to enter a server that has a population of less than a dozen, and then there's those wonderful cut scenes when you leave a planet or land in your ship and all to hide the loading times.

 

Does that strike you as up to the minute performance?

 

I'm not a game designer, but I do write software for high performance systems and its very apparant that as the OP says SWTOR relies too much on synchronous calls and is very inefficient in data handling and prediction.

 

For example, if I've just entered a personal story area, why must I wait 5-10 seconds for a storyline conversation to start after I click on the storyline character? Come on, it's obvious I'll talk to them at somepoint and surely the conversation is all stored in that vast area of my hard disk that SWTOR takes up?

[wtfnonamefree]

So, this is where the armchair devs and amateurs-pretending-to-be-professionals hang out nowadays?

 

Nice. Brb - checking some wikipedia articles on coding/game design for 10m, so I get my expertise up to your level.

[Sunsliver]

hey, former gmae developer, time has changed

and your pathetic demonstration of behind the scenes knowledge is really amusing

 

if you cant understand mmo tech just dont think about it, okay

 

giving the graphics of swtor and add all the calculation and traffficing

an mmo does in the background its not hard to understand why the

engine seems to suffering like its doing ...

 

but the reality is different ... there isnt an single mmo outhere

that could compete with swtors use of normalmapping, advanced lightening,

size of areas and level of detail ... and all the stat calculations in the background

an mmo with the graphics of swtor isnt soemthing that could be considered possible 2 years ago ...

 

if you think swtor isnt doing a good if not brilliant job with its graphics and database capabilities

you no nothing about how mmos work or whats needed to make them function

 

you need to take the word from the professionals,

swtor is doing an outstanding job tech-wise ...

you just cant expect to run a MMO of 2012 on a system that

was even oudated when WoW came out ...

 

I'll take Capitalization, Punctuation and Spelling for 200.00 Alex.

[RadeFox]

OP is dead on. Thank you for getting it out there.

 

It is a main reason I am unsubbing from my $150 dollar 'investment'.

 

The lengthy loading screens, and abuse to my system can be avoided now.

[Hiply]

I see we have a lot of game designers in the forums. I call BS. Every one of you. I'm not defending any one. I just doubt any of you are actual game designers.

 

I guarantee you, as someone who managed geeks for years, that the OP is exactly what he says he is; someone who knows precisely what he's talking about.

 

OP, excellent post, and a sadly likely prognostication as well.

[Zolexus]

Very well written article about the performance issues in SWTOR. Remember when a lot of people were in Ilum? Because of what the OP said, they'll never be able to make mass PvP viable.

 

I do not agree with OP on one thing though. The performance is definitely not the MMO's only problem, there are quite a few others were one would have to look at it from a more psychological point of view rather than a technical one. Definitely not getting into that, not worth the effort.

[GnatB]

The OP makes some interesting points, and his theories do a good job of matching his reported symptoms.

 

Only problem?

 

I'm not seeing many of those symptoms. I don't hitch when somebody loads in nearby. I sometimes see a nameplate show up, then some time later the player pops in. OP makes it sound like you're getting loadscreens/hitches while running around as people load in. And It's not like I'm on an SSD. (albeit I am on a good computer). (almost makes me wonder if it's an OS or videocard driver issue? The calls being made on his system block, on mine they don't)

 

The only time I really notice hitches is when the loot window pops open. (particularly from reverse engineering). and THAT only started the patch after they announced a fix to an exploit that supposedly allowed you to research things w/o actually destroying the item. (I expect they got heavy handed with the fix and made it a blocking call) But since you can't RE on the run, I wasn't all that bothered by it.

[Quintan]

I love the PVP in this game an I have tried to hold on and stick around but I just can't find the will to log into this mess anymore. I always had the feeling EAoware devs were in way over their heads with SWTOR since every feature in the game(even after they have patched upgrades) is sub par to that of "any" other MMO's features.

 

"We are working hard on bringing you server transfers?" Really?\

 

I'm not a game developer but I work with CIS and networking and I can tell you that I know 15 year old kids that can perform server transfers on almost any system.

[Fhrosty]

+1 to the OP. I have a fairly decent mid to mid-upper range comp I bought just before this game hit. 64-bit, core i7, moderately-rated vid card, etc etc. I can play Skyrim somewhere between High and Ultra-high with a sustained 30+ fps. I keep this game on medium settings, with a few special effects cut off or way down.

 

- Some of the planets in this game give me several minutes of loading times.

- When I "Quit Game" from the ESC menu, my computer locks up for several minutes.

- If there are more than 10+ people in the area I'm loading into, my screen is black except for the GUI for a good minute or three.

- There are occasional momentary freezes during combat that seem to occur more frequently since 1.2.

[Braaaiins]

This is why they have a game and you have a computer that can run it.

 

in other words.. go make something better.. (maybe mom will put it on the fridge.)

Edited April 24, 2012 by Braaaiins