Mistaking OP classes for good players.

[Sevvy]

1.2 made class balance even worse.

[skotish]

Pvp in this game is not balanced You must be on the FOTM bandwagon and everyone agreeing with you is the same :wea_03: Edited April 23, 2012 by skotish

[dufox]

lol at the people who just cant seem to grasp the concept.

 

balance means game is playable.

it does not mean game is perfect.

[ComeAndSee]

1.2 made class balance even worse.

 

Bad players always gravitate to the FOTM.

Edited April 23, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Drakinor]

You mean to tell me that I am being beat by good players? Preposterous!! You sir, clearly don't understand the finer points of player vs player combat where I must win always and anyone who even stands a chance against me must be completely overpowered, therefore the game is clearly broken. Now if you will excuse me, I must /ragequit to protest in frustration at this clearly unfair, unbalanced, and absurdly broken system that is out to get me because I do not play the overpowered hand me wins class.

 

/end sarcasm

 

Excellent post lol

[mclammitys]

I would love to people think like this more.

[MrHotter]

I was playing my gunslinger and a sniper kept killing me. That proves that snipers need a nerf and gunslingers need a buff.

[Darth_Sookie]

lol if only all that did enough damage to kill someone... maybe a fresh 50 with no gear... would be funny to see.

 

My War Hero Geared Carnage Marauder friend had a 6.2k crit from the last ravage tick. The second crit for like 4.5. I Laughed when i saw that poor sorc go down.

[ComeAndSee]

My War Hero Geared Carnage Marauder friend had a 6.2k crit from the last ravage tick. The second crit for like 4.5. I Laughed when i saw that poor sorc go down.

 

I wish I could crit more than 3k. >_>

[mangarrage]

Yea I would say that without question the best players in pvp on every server all play the same classes and all the bad players like myself don't pay one of those three classes.

 

People that think the pvp is balanced play one of the three plain and simple

There are three specs then a gap then a bunch of specs then another gap then the rest

 

You move the top specs down a peg and the botom up a peg, then you have balance

They are close but the immergence of the three specs are now flooding wzs and it will get a hell of alot worse soon

[Meenos]

I dont lose to much, but when I do, I know the forums are the place for me to cry about somebody being better then me.

[gattiman]

Your logic fails op. If it was just good players how come I see the same classes posting the same numbers? Sure the best players of their class maximize their classes glass ceiling of dps/heals but the ceiling IS different for each class. I mean do you really think only the best dpsers are Mar/jugg/sorc? If you do I have a bridge to sell you. Edited April 23, 2012 by gattiman

[Sporticus]

So I didn't have time to read the entire thread, forgive me if I reiterate something.

 

While I partially agree with the OP, there is also a flaw in his logic. When you're truly trying to talk about balance and OP/UP classes, the argument that whoever has cooldowns up will likely win isn't really an effective point.

 

If you want to talk about balance, talk about what happens when two classes meet on a level playing field (i.e. same gear level and all cooldowns). Knights and Warriors ARE overpowered now. That doesn't make them impossible to beat, but being beatable doesn't make you any less strong a class.

 

That said, I'm holding my own by using pretty much every trick I can think of so I'm not QQing or asking for a nerf, but this argument is similar to another thread where someone said tanks were overpowered because they can run tank spec with dps gear and put up great numbers if they have a pocket healer... my big toe could put up great numbers with a pocket healer and could also beat you in any class match-up if I have all my cooldowns and you have none.

 

Players definitely can make the difference, but at the same time it's only fair to point out that there ARE overpowered classes/specs at the moment (which is why you see so many of them popping up). It is just hard to tell the good from the bad with certain combos. Good dps sorc/sages are the hardest for me to spot honestly, because you can't look at the one sorc who was free-casting for an entire round and assume his damage numbers mean anything about his skill as a player (however that can apply to any class that is allowed to dps unchecked).

[Easpeak]

I'm pretty sure the original poster found the healing nerfs and damage boost in patch 1.2. to really "balance" the game.

[nikthebeast]

lol at the people who just cant seem to grasp the concept.

 

balance means game is playable.

it does not mean game is perfect.

 

Errr no, the game being playable means it is playable. Balance means there is a good balance(figures...) between the classes. No one expect the game to be perfect but expecting it to be balanced is a wholly reasonable request.

 

It is by no means a trivial request as there is PVE and PVP to consider. Then there is the butterfly effect of changing one thing here, then all of the sudden other classes step up and starts kicking arse. Subtle changes can be quite significant. In essence, I suppose I'm on the same page as you though, I don't expect a balanced game but I think trying to work towards it is a worthwhile endevour.

[Boyana]

Let me start by saying I'm a rage spec almost fully bm geared juggernaut. With that being said I have had plenty of good games AND plenty of bad ones. Games where I'm top dps with the most medals and not so top dps with an average amount of medals... When I get beat by a certain class a few times I don't immediately assume that certain class is op, I was simply outplayed.

 

I was a tank spec juggernaut before and after getting my *** handed to me on many occasions, I came on here and qq'ed like everyone else that does after a few bad games. After doing some research I found that people have succeeded very well with the immortal spec. I took their advice, tried it, and just couldn't figure it out. So I switched back to rage, the spec that I had pretty much been from lvl 1, so you could say I'm pretty familiar with that particular build.

 

That all being said, I get beat by the people with the same class as me, same spec as me. I get beat by every other class in the game. But I also beat every class in the game. You catch me off guard, you have your cool downs and I don't, chances are you win. Same goes for me, catching you off guard when I have my cool downs and you don't.

 

So many posts here claiming all these "op" classes when people just can't handle the fact that well... That guy/girl just simply outplayed you. They assume that because they are fully geared, they shouldn't get beat down just like the rest of the people in the warzone.

 

Put it simply, the game is pretty damn balanced in pvp. Start getting used to the fact that some people are better at playing this game than you are.

 

Oh, where were you when they cried for healer nerfs...But nice to read this, never mind if it is late for us now, maybe it is not for the rest of humanity.

[Winkywinky]

doesnt it work both ways?

 

cant one admit that he/she isnt good yet be able to say that one class is op... or better yet say one class needs a buff?

[dufox]

Errr no, the game being playable means it is playable. Balance means there is a good balance(figures...) between the classes. No one expect the game to be perfect but expecting it to be balanced is a wholly reasonable request.

 

It is by no means a trivial request as there is PVE and PVP to consider. Then there is the butterfly effect of changing one thing here, then all of the sudden other classes step up and starts kicking arse. Subtle changes can be quite significant. In essence, I suppose I'm on the same page as you though, I don't expect a balanced game but I think trying to work towards it is a worthwhile endevour.

 

exactly

what i mean to say is when people are saying balance and they actually mean it. they are saying its not so unbalanced you cant play the game.

 

in a game with so many variables to consider i cant possibly see them ever making the game fair for everyone until they start nerfing/buffing 1 thing at a time.

[Niil]

exactly

what i mean to say is when people are saying balance and they actually mean it. they are saying its not so unbalanced you cant play the game.

 

in a game with so many variables to consider i cant possibly see them ever making the game fair for everyone until they start nerfing/buffing 1 thing at a time.

 

Sorry, but that's a joke. The people that talk about the game being balanced now are saying that because they are the ones that are at the top of the pile and they want to keep the status quo. You won't see a ton of bounty hunters posting in the forums that the game is balanced. You will see a bunch of powertechs, tank assassins, jugs, marauders, and possibly operative healers doing that. Just as pre 1.2 sorcerer and bounty hunter healers were claiming the game was balanced. And before that it was operative dps that were gibbing people via knockdowns and killing them before their characters could stand up. It's a defense mechanism that's a pretty good indication of what's going to get nerfed. It's sorta like, "omg I have to rush and defend something I know is op I just don't want to admit it!"

[HoosierDuke]

Put it simply, the game is pretty damn balanced in pvp. Start getting used to the fact that some people are better at playing this game than you are.

 

Its an OTOH sort of day...

 

Mistaking gear for good players.

 

Put it simply, the game is pretty damn balanced in pvp. Start getting used to the fact that some people have more time than you and have better gear than you do.

[SinnedWill]

Then we're back to the beginning and simply rolling a marauder took me from being able to hold my own against most classes as an operative to being able to faceroll anyone I meet as a marauder. If it's balanced, then apparently some videogame deity saw fit to bestow upon me orders of magnitude greater skill at SWTOR.

 

Depending on your tactics and playstyle, both can excel at what they do. It appears as though your playstyle is more befitting to that of a marauder which likely better excels against whatever classes you're meeting in WZ's. Also, you can't compare lv. 50 WZ pvp directly with 10-49 WZ pvp for many reasons (certain classes excel earlier than others pvp-wise, some get bigger benefits from WZ stat inflations for their abilities, some get drastic ability diversity before others, and of course overall player skill will be much more diverse in sub-50 brackets). Ops/Scounds are still VERY EFFECTIVE in the right situations and against most classes if they're played by someone that is good at knowing the class and when/how to play it effectively (basically, they're more effective at short-term burst damage to a single target post 1.2 with quickly diminishing sustained dps - and they have a longer window of inactivity between their Alpha-strike chain stuns). You can expect to see yourself missing your Operative/Scoundrel when you're on your marauder once you've been thoroughly trounced by a good ops/scound a few times. Ops/Scounds never should've excelled at "holding their own" unless their target was alone or you jumped someone seperated from the rest of their team a bit. I can assure you that ops/scounds are still the best at quick easy kills. As for 1v1 capability, they're probably tied with Assassins/Shadows at being the most successful if they can't kill their target out-right with their "alpha-opener" due to attacks not critting, and definitely the best at 1v1 if their "alpha" hits do crit.

[SinnedWill]

Sorry, but that's a joke. The people that talk about the game being balanced now are saying that because they are the ones that are at the top of the pile and they want to keep the status quo. You won't see a ton of bounty hunters posting in the forums that the game is balanced. You will see a bunch of powertechs, tank assassins, jugs, marauders, and possibly operative healers doing that. Just as pre 1.2 sorcerer and bounty hunter healers were claiming the game was balanced. And before that it was operative dps that were gibbing people via knockdowns and killing them before their characters could stand up. It's a defense mechanism that's a pretty good indication of what's going to get nerfed. It's sorta like, "omg I have to rush and defend something I know is op I just don't want to admit it!"

 

Well, my madness sorc. is almost always top in medals/damage/kills/KB's/fewest deaths and sometimes even healing (depending on how often I'm getting primed while my bubble is up). Even with all the nerfs (and steath-nerfs, mind you) that came from 1.2. Only time I've seen a Marauder outperform me in a WZ is when they've had a dedicated healer(s) coupled with a dedicated guard(s) so they have 0 deaths - and they still don't usually out-damage me. Please, I invite you to start QQ'ing about sorcerers again if I'm still able to do this. Also, Mercs/Commandos really don't need to say anything right now since they're still capable of dishing out 5-6k damage to equally geared players with their HSM/Demo Round and tracer missile is still just as effective as ever to their teammates. A good arsenal merc is still actually very difficult to out-dps - most of the good players have adapted to the changes and are making them perform just as well (if not better) post 1.2.

[dufox]

Sorry, but that's a joke. The people that talk about the game being balanced now are saying that because they are the ones that are at the top of the pile and they want to keep the status quo. You won't see a ton of bounty hunters posting in the forums that the game is balanced. You will see a bunch of powertechs, tank assassins, jugs, marauders, and possibly operative healers doing that. Just as pre 1.2 sorcerer and bounty hunter healers were claiming the game was balanced. And before that it was operative dps that were gibbing people via knockdowns and killing them before their characters could stand up. It's a defense mechanism that's a pretty good indication of what's going to get nerfed. It's sorta like, "omg I have to rush and defend something I know is op I just don't want to admit it!"

 

exactly

what i mean to say is when people are saying balance and they actually mean it. they are saying its not so unbalanced you cant play the game.

 

im not really sure what the joke is.

should i change it to intelligent people that mean it? i figured that was a given...

 

You will see a bunch of powertechs, tank assassins, jugs, marauders, and possibly operative healers doing that

so basically what your saying here is that 5 out of 8 different class's have some sort of advantage over other class's. how do u not see some balance in that?

the game is not as bad as people say it is. people just dont know where the OP starts and the player skill ends.

[RaugMoss]

Sorry, but that's a joke. The people that talk about the game being balanced now are saying that because they are the ones that are at the top of the pile and they want to keep the status quo. You won't see a ton of bounty hunters posting in the forums that the game is balanced. You will see a bunch of powertechs, tank assassins, jugs, marauders, and possibly operative healers doing that. Just as pre 1.2 sorcerer and bounty hunter healers were claiming the game was balanced. And before that it was operative dps that were gibbing people via knockdowns and killing them before their characters could stand up. It's a defense mechanism that's a pretty good indication of what's going to get nerfed. It's sorta like, "omg I have to rush and defend something I know is op I just don't want to admit it!"

 

Agreed 100%.

 

And to the OP: ***** please, you are a rage juggernaut, and with 1160 expertise (2 war hero pieces rest bm fully optimized) a rage juggernaut can take me down in 5 seconds. Vengeance juggernaut can take me down in 10 seconds. Please don't tell me that I'm not skilled in kiting you, you can't kite a Vengeance because of unstoppable, and you can't kite a rage juggernaut because that juggernaut will have 5 seconds uptime on you some way or the other.

 

Bioware nerfed 4 cd killing operatives, they should do the same to juggernauts. I hit them for 450 (750 crit) force lightning dots, while they line up 5k 3k 4k 4.1k (vicious throw) and I'm dead. PvP is not about seeing a sorcerer and saying: Yeah this guy is gonna do damage, lemme pop cds and get him over with in 4 cds, then I'll jump to my next target.

 

So please, save your balance talk when ur precious tank/dps hybrids and damage mitigating way over-damaged lolsmashing class gets nerfed to the ground.

 

Note: (For the ones that say marauders are OP) Marauders are nothing compared to juggernauts, they are kiteable at least if not carnage, and if they play carnage, their damage isn't that OP.

[bennyhana]

Agreed 100%.

 

And to the OP: ***** please, you are a rage juggernaut, and with 1160 expertise (2 war hero pieces rest bm fully optimized) a rage juggernaut can take me down in 5 seconds. Vengeance juggernaut can take me down in 10 seconds. Please don't tell me that I'm not skilled in kiting you, you can't kite a Vengeance because of unstoppable, and you can't kite a rage juggernaut because that juggernaut will have 5 seconds uptime on you some way or the other.

 

Bioware nerfed 4 cd killing operatives, they should do the same to juggernauts. I hit them for 450 (750 crit) force lightning dots, while they line up 5k 3k 4k 4.1k (vicious throw) and I'm dead. PvP is not about seeing a sorcerer and saying: Yeah this guy is gonna do damage, lemme pop cds and get him over with in 4 cds, then I'll jump to my next target.

 

So please, save your balance talk when ur precious tank/dps hybrids and damage mitigating way over-damaged lolsmashing class gets nerfed to the ground.

 

Note: (For the ones that say marauders are OP) Marauders are nothing compared to juggernauts, they are kiteable at least if not carnage, and if they play carnage, their damage isn't that OP.

 

Someone hasn't figured out how to beat a juggernaut :/ it's ok, I admitted that I can't beat snipers. And you just said a rage juggernaut can do more damage than ah marauder? And that you have an easier time kiting one? (psssst. We have almost all the same gap closers.) nice try though. Figure out the strat before throwing the OP flag.