Why non-stop alt leveling will fail.

[Fornix]

In reply to the original post. As someone who only has the time to play a limited number of hours a week there is sufficient endgame content to keep going from patch to patch. There is so much still to be done, I hardly even get around to giving alts any attention.

 

Sure BioWare's story focus have given them some leeway when it comes to buying themselves some additional time. However, it's not the casual players they need to be buying time from. It's the player who plays 10 hours a day and clears patch content within a matter of weeks for whom they are needing to offer something extra in order to maintain them as subscribers.

[Quintan]

ill give you that. there are a lot of features missing that some would say 'makes it an mmo'. the game was pushed WAY too early. . .or took WAY too long to develop different areas of the game lol. whatever the case it is true, the game needed more features, and those features needed to be fully developed(gtn anyone?)

 

diablo never was my cup of tea. even in the d3 beta im trying to use WADS to move and tab to target lol. but i do think that changing the way the game was, in order to adapt it for consoles is a huge mistake. but i see why they did it in a way. why make the 'old version' which im sure was ready way before they decided to make a console version, and then have to change the game specifically for the console version. then having to balance(and update/upgrade) two entirely different games essentially. but come on, its blizzard you know they can afford it.

 

are you trolling by trying to compare diablo 3 story with swtor story? its like your whole post was logical and reasonable up until that point XD.

 

im sure i dont need to say it, but swtor story is leaps and bounds ahead of diablo 3 story. not even focusing that swtor has 8 stories with slight variations(light/dark). . .the story for the class's starter planets are SO much better than what was showing in the diablo 3 beta(demo)

 

No I'm not trolling at all, sure SWTOR story has nice cut scenes and more story lines but I played all four Republic side and I find the Diablo 3 story and PvE to be more fun. Don't get me wrong I liked the SWTOR stories a lot but I also found them to be poorly though out and it's too bad really. SWTOR is great, I love the PvP and many other things about it but I just feel like the game features are all sub-par to other games. I feel like every feature is half-aszed instead of better, like they're happy with features being "almost" as good as other games that charge the same or less.

[Ricktur]

Sure BioWare's story focus have given them some leeway when it comes to buying themselves some additional time. However, it's not the casual players they need to be buying time from. It's the player who plays 10 hours a day and clears patch content within a matter of weeks for whom they are needing to offer something extra in order to maintain them as subscribers.

 

the problem is, this group of gamers represents the smallest portion of the player audience. i think it was James ohlen or someone that said "you dont make a 300 million dollar game for the minority"

[GalacticKegger]

No I'm not trolling at all, sure SWTOR story has nice cut scenes and more story lines but I played all four Republic side and I find the Diablo 3 story and PvE to be more fun. Don't get me wrong I liked the SWTOR stories a lot but I also found them to be poorly though out and it's too bad really. SWTOR is great, I love the PvP and many other things about it but I just feel like the game features are all sub-par to other games. I feel like every feature is half-aszed instead of better, like they're happy with features being "almost" as good as other games that charge the same or less.

Actually you are, but kiiling it with kindness as opposed to acerbic flaming is a nice and welcome departure. Is 50¢ a day really that big of a hit for a game that doesn't do everything every other game combined does only better? If that's the turn-off then gaming must be horrifically stressful for you ... because that one-size-fits-all dream game (regardless of price) does not - and likely never will - exist. Edited April 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bulwyf]

Here's my problem at level 50:

 

I have zero interest in raiding. Boring grind to get slightly better gear is not a valid endgame model. I will never take part in it.

 

I have zero interest in battleground pvp. Boring grind to get slightly better gear is not a valid endgame model. I will take no part in it.

 

What exactly does that leave one to do at 50? Play more alts? I can't think of anything to do at 50 that doesn't revolve around raiding or boring instanced pvp. The only endgame model that is truly dynamic and interesting is a huge open world RVR zone like Daoc where the players have reasons to pvp and that is the end game. This game does not even have Illum any more since they intentionally removed any reason to go there.

 

So to go back to the OP's point, what exactly does this game offer besides rolling alts to see story lines and once you hit 50 just reroll another alt?

[Tikigit]

I have heard a few times that end game is the only game. OP, you state that most MMO gamers feel this way.

 

Sorry but I must disagree with that statement. I don't know where you get your ideas about most gamers (from the forums?), but every single gamer I know wants a rich MMO experience from beginning to end and beyond.

 

Personally, story/lore is very important to me. The journey is the most fun for me. When I reach "the end," even in a game with excellent endgame content, I feel the wind go out of my sails. I prolong the journey as long as I can.

 

To that end, since leveling is ridiculously fast in swtor, I have:

1. a level 41 imp op dps

2. a level 14 imp op healer

3. a level 26 assassin

4., 5, 6. some low level sith and a bh

 

and on another server

7, 8, 9, 10. a few jedi padawans and a lowbie smuggler waiting for my attention.

 

I do agree this alt push by BW won't work for long for many people, but not because the endgame is the only game. It will fail because many people like to focus on a main character. I'm the same, actually. I love alts, but as a side amusement. I attach myself to my main as we embark on our several-year long journey (not month long journey to the endgame).

 

Cut leveling times and focus only on endgame... why bother with leveling at all? Why bother with an MMO at all??

 

 

 

For you TL/DR types: To have a game be successful longterm, it can't rely solely on alts to keep people occupied. However, beginning middle and endgame are equally important.

 

Pretty much said everything for me.

[Scrubtastic]

It's not that alt leveling will fail, it already has. The week 1.2 came out my server felt like launch day again, but the week after, it went back to the dead server it was for the past 2 months. This game was made for the casuals and baddies so they can roll moar alts cause they can't do/beat end game or win in pvp. Which is why they don't want dmg/healing meters or they would see how much they suck and how broken and unbalance this game is.

 

Maybe in 6 months they'll see that they are playing a dying game when there's barely anyone left on their server. Have fun rolling more alts to play your single player game. Thanks BW for the free month so I can tell everyone how awesome your game is.

[Patsilver]

I need more character slots per server

[GalacticKegger]

It's not that alt leveling will fail, it already has. The week 1.2 came out my server felt like launch day again, but the week after, it went back to the dead server it was for the past 2 months. This game was made for the casuals and baddies so they can roll moar alts cause they can't do/beat end game or win in pvp. Which is why they don't want dmg/healing meters or they would see how much they suck and how broken and unbalance this game is.

 

Maybe in 6 months they'll see that they are playing a dying game when there's barely anyone left on their server. Have fun rolling more alts to play your single player game. Thanks BW for the free month so I can tell everyone how awesome your game is.

And if everyone you told were to come here and inquire about your flaming I'd tell them what they heard was a compensating lie and invite them to play on Mask of Nihilus. Edited April 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[DieAlteHexe]

... This game was made for the casuals and baddies so they can roll moar alts cause they can't do/beat end game or win in pvp. Which is why they don't want dmg/healing meters or they would see how much they suck and how broken and unbalance this game is.

 

Yeah, it was made for casuals. The "baddies" thing is, well, your interpretation but hey, we'll go with it and concede that we all can't be as über as you are. I suspect we'll muddle along though.

 

Maybe in 6 months they'll see that they are playing a dying game when there's barely anyone left on their server. Have fun rolling more alts to play your single player game. Thanks BW for the free month so I can tell everyone how awesome your game is.

 

Maybe we will, maybe we won't. As for me, during that six months, I intend to have fun. I find it amusing that you are willing to donate time to discussing a game that you have such obvious contempt for but hey....like the saying goes: Any publicity is good. So, keep on talking! There will be folks who come to check it out and stay. For that...thanks!

[Darth_Mordrid]

 

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

I enjoy TOR, I think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this Bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

You are wrong and right on this, though you are entitled to your opinion which is just fine. MANY players love the story moreover, I am sure there are plenty like myself who will have no problem leveling a decent number of toons as the years go by. After all, if lots of people can level alts in a TERRIBLY boring grind leveling game like WoW, they will definately do it here. Plus most alts will not take anywhere near as long to level since the story missions are the only ones I won't skip after already having seen the planet missions. Just sayin

 

But I do agree, the more content and tools added that we want, the better chance this game has.

[Esquire]

How about both?

 

They already have a great story based leveling themepark. They already have some raids for end-game PVE and PVP is there with it's rewards if some1 wants to partake. What is missing is really "living" in the game and that can be added with post launch development.

 

Sooner or later, the alt-aholics will have all their alts leveled. Same with top-end PVE raiders, they will have all their gear. Top-end PVP players will gain all that new gear just put into the game, however PVP does seem to have it's own rewards with nothing more than ego that keeps those players coming back for the long term. PVP gameplay suffers when no1 wants to do it anylonger, the game in question gets soooo many cheats/3rd party programs that no1 can compete without cheating, and PVPers seem to be the 1st to jump ship when a "new shiney" hits the market as well.

 

To be honest, I believe that if a little sandbox was added in end game for "living" in the world" player retention would increase and let BW have the time to get out their expansions for adding more content as well.

[pauljc]

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

Why on Earth would anyone run through the same handful of FPs dozens of times to get a piece of Columi gear, so they can run through the same FPs on hard mode dozens of times to get a piece of Rakata gear?

 

At least with rolling alts you get a change in scenery/story.

[Quintan]

Actually you are, but kiiling it with kindness as opposed to acerbic flaming is a nice and welcome departure. Is 50¢ a day really that big of a hit for a game that doesn't do everything every other game combined does only better? If that's the turn-off then gaming must be horrifically stressful for you ... because that one-size-fits-all dream game (regardless of price) does not - and likely never will - exist.

 

Whatever you say buddy, are you rich? cause I have this beautiful bridge I need to get rid off..

 

Then I'll have money to play two real MMO plus SWTOR yay!

[TyphoonMidget]

How about both?

 

They already have a great story based leveling themepark. They already have some raids for end-game PVE and PVP is there with it's rewards if some1 wants to partake. What is missing is really "living" in the game and that can be added with post launch development.

 

Sooner or later, the alt-aholics will have all their alts leveled. Same with top-end PVE raiders, they will have all their gear. Top-end PVP players will gain all that new gear just put into the game, however PVP does seem to have it's own rewards with nothing more than ego that keeps those players coming back for the long term. PVP gameplay suffers when no1 wants to do it anylonger, the game in question gets soooo many cheats/3rd party programs that no1 can compete without cheating, and PVPers seem to be the 1st to jump ship when a "new shiney" hits the market as well.

 

To be honest, I believe that if a little sandbox was added in end game for "living" in the world" player retention would increase and let BW have the time to get out their expansions for adding more content as well.

 

 

I have a system of gearing up to max tiers on PVP and PVE. That way, one toon lasts for ages. I get through alts, just incredibly slowly, repeating the same PVP, PVE grind with a new class. This is how you make a game last long.

[terminova]

Who's talking about WoW? I certainly never said anything about that game. Why is it that people defending this game always feel the need to bring WoW into the argument? Is it because this game can't stand against criticism on its own?

 

Why the need to attempt to discredit the comparison? They made a valid point whether you like it or not.

[Esquire]

I have a system of gearing up to max tiers on PVP and PVE. That way, one toon lasts for ages. I get through alts, just incredibly slowly, repeating the same PVP, PVE grind with a new class. This is how you make a game last long.

 

I'm leveling alts as well. Expecialy with the advantages of the Legacy system. I leveled alts in SWG. I had 4 accounts and the wife had 5 even. But, sooner or later, no matter how you pace yourself, you reach your goal. This is the problem with nothing more than story as the mainstay of development. Sooner or later, it's completed and without more dev installed nose-ring, leash lead thru content development, the interest in the game then falters as well. I see this in my adult son who plays WoW. He re-subs for the new expansion, blows thru the content that took Bliz a year to create in a month, and then off to the next shiney until Bliz does it all over again.

 

What kept me in SWG for all those years was the sandbox feel, the citys, the never ending goal of collecting and adding that new/old item to my 1400 item bunker, and the player driven economy, at end game. It wasn't PVE raids, altho I did every 1 of them over and over and over, it wasn't PVP altho I did alot of PVP until the cheats got so bad, it was the "feel" of actualy living in the game and being invested in my toons. And that, basicly, is what TOR is missing at this point for me, anyway.

 

That could be added into post launch development and would probably go a long way for player retention.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Esquire

[RowanThursday]

All these things are subjective.

 

Personally, I never *bothered* getting any character to max level in WoW- the closest I got was something like 73 (of 80 as it was then), but I was more interested in trying out alts, and that was a McDeath Nugget, so started at 55 anyway.

 

In TOR, though, I *will* be taking my level 47 Inquisitor all the way to 50... and why?

 

Because it has an interesting impact on my alts. I like the idea that her relatives, though not necessarily force users themselves, would have enough inherent force sensitivity in their bloodline that, when the chips are down, and it's a real moment when a hero is needed.... whoa, I can shoot lightning!

 

Again, I'll probably level a Twi'lek to 50 at some point, in order to be able to unlock Twi'leks for other characters. I slightly regret the fact that both my current high levels are human... but, levelling's fun enough for that not to be a problem.

 

Not only is "endgame is the only real game" not true for me... but endgame really doesn't actually *interest* me. What's the point in piddling about getting higher and higher armour... when there's no story left to use it for?

 

That's why, in the past, I've stopped *before* max level- because if it's a character I've liked, I've wanted to leave them still with 'something' left to do to come back to, not facing a brick wall marked "The End."

 

Now, though, in TOR... they have something to do. My Sith Inquisitor can reach 50, become a Darth, retire to Korriban to grow begonias... because her story continues on, in the form of her legacy.

 

That means an awful lot more to me as far as motivation to keep playing goes than "Hey, have a new hat that'll increase some obscure statistic in order to let you make other people fall over faster in the PvP mini-game you never play"

[DieAlteHexe]

All these things are subjective.

 

Personally, I never *bothered* getting any character to max level in WoW- the closest I got was something like 73 (of 80 as it was then), but I was more interested in trying out alts, and that was a McDeath Nugget, so started at 55 anyway.

 

In TOR, though, I *will* be taking my level 47 Inquisitor all the way to 50... and why?

 

Because it has an interesting impact on my alts. I like the idea that her relatives, though not necessarily force users themselves, would have enough inherent force sensitivity in their bloodline that, when the chips are down, and it's a real moment when a hero is needed.... whoa, I can shoot lightning!

 

Again, I'll probably level a Twi'lek to 50 at some point, in order to be able to unlock Twi'leks for other characters. I slightly regret the fact that both my current high levels are human... but, levelling's fun enough for that not to be a problem.

 

Not only is "endgame is the only real game" not true for me... but endgame really doesn't actually *interest* me. What's the point in piddling about getting higher and higher armour... when there's no story left to use it for?

 

That's why, in the past, I've stopped *before* max level- because if it's a character I've liked, I've wanted to leave them still with 'something' left to do to come back to, not facing a brick wall marked "The End."

 

Now, though, in TOR... they have something to do. My Sith Inquisitor can reach 50, become a Darth, retire to Korriban to grow begonias... because her story continues on, in the form of her legacy.

 

That means an awful lot more to me as far as motivation to keep playing goes than "Hey, have a new hat that'll increase some obscure statistic in order to let you make other people fall over faster in the PvP mini-game you never play"

 

+1

 

Actually, +multiples because this is exactly how many of the people I play with feel. Well said.

[AzKnc]

I've got 5 lvl 50 characters, 4 of which are bm/wh, the only reason i can still post here are the 30 free days and i don't plan to resub this ever again unless they actually patch all the quality of life features missing. Just saying.

 

With all the stuff coming out in the next weeks/months tera, d3, ps2, mop, i don't really see any reason whatsoever to come back to tor to have a 1999 gameplay experience. Seriously, still no pve tool nor cross server nor dual spec 4 months after release? Please.

 

And as if that wasn't enough, they have to mock me by showing on what kind of USELESS GARBAGE they're wasting their time on (legacy).

[Ghaiana]

All these things are subjective.

 

Personally, I never *bothered* getting any character to max level in WoW- the closest I got was something like 73 (of 80 as it was then), but I was more interested in trying out alts, and that was a McDeath Nugget, so started at 55 anyway.

 

In TOR, though, I *will* be taking my level 47 Inquisitor all the way to 50... and why?

 

Because it has an interesting impact on my alts. I like the idea that her relatives, though not necessarily force users themselves, would have enough inherent force sensitivity in their bloodline that, when the chips are down, and it's a real moment when a hero is needed.... whoa, I can shoot lightning!

 

Again, I'll probably level a Twi'lek to 50 at some point, in order to be able to unlock Twi'leks for other characters. I slightly regret the fact that both my current high levels are human... but, levelling's fun enough for that not to be a problem.

 

Not only is "endgame is the only real game" not true for me... but endgame really doesn't actually *interest* me. What's the point in piddling about getting higher and higher armour... when there's no story left to use it for?

 

That's why, in the past, I've stopped *before* max level- because if it's a character I've liked, I've wanted to leave them still with 'something' left to do to come back to, not facing a brick wall marked "The End."

 

Now, though, in TOR... they have something to do. My Sith Inquisitor can reach 50, become a Darth, retire to Korriban to grow begonias... because her story continues on, in the form of her legacy.

 

That means an awful lot more to me as far as motivation to keep playing goes than "Hey, have a new hat that'll increase some obscure statistic in order to let you make other people fall over faster in the PvP mini-game you never play"

 

This is also how i feel about the game, the legacy makes it interesting to create a family of alts.

[BucMan]

People act like the story we have now is all we will get ever. Bioware would have to be pretty stupid to not put out any more story updates......

[Tirantus]

That you fail to understand it doesn't change others' enjoyment of it. I'm not being snarky here. It is simply a difference in perspective. I don't get why PvP is such a big deal to people, I truly do not. But, I accept that it is and wish 'em well.

 

I am not "trudging" through anything, either. I don't pay a sub fee to "trudge". If I enjoy a game, I play it. If I don't, I go find something else to do.

 

Really, just accept that how you feel is fine for you and leave others the same courtesy. The "fail" that you are feeling is actually a huge WIN to many folks that play this game. For once, an MMO is NOT all about jetting to level-cap but far more about all that occurs getting there. This, for many, is GREAT!

Very very true. I wonder if these "hardcore" raiders even realize games like Tera and Guild Wars are totally doing away with the traditional raiding model. Neither of thoes games will have the traditional instance raids that require you to have 15-20 people to beat it.

 

Much like the old school model of having 20 people sit and wait for 3-4 hours for a zone boss to spawn to maybe get that one awesome item is gone and done away with. The traditional raiding system is on its way out.

[Skylarke]

I started playing MMORPGs in 1999 with AC/EQ. Since then, I've played and/or tested about 20 total. I've always played multiple characters ("multiple mains", not "alts") and have never thought about "endgame" as anything other than another aspect that I can participate in with RL friends/guildmates. I've certainly never rushed to it or thought of it as a main focus of the games.

[MWidowmaker]

The traditional raiding system is on its way out.

 

good riddance to it too!