Why non-stop alt leveling will fail.

[Shockazilla]

I mean that is your perception, however, I think just about everyone in my two guilds (same guild, repub and imp) play alts, and they DO like the story. Now, these are extreme end-gamers, that level like you would not believe, and were in the #3-$5 guild on their server in another MMO (whose name will remain unmentioned) in conquering end game content. They zerged straight to 50, do operations, and many do PvP.

 

Some play alts to the extreme, others might have 1 or 2. I myself enjoy casual play and crafting, and I have 1 50, and the rest filled out on my server in 30s and 40s, and maxed out on every craft. Eventually though, I will look for un-bugged operations and some PvP, provided it is fun. I left the other MMO because I just didn't like the grind. Here I like the story, though sometimes some options are rather lame, I am still engaged, and I cannot wait to see the climax at each stage.

[Geladius]

bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, i have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game. However, with bioware's main focus as i stated before which is clearly centered around leveling and this story of theirs isn't going to last long at all. The only way this game will make it 5 years from now, is with a vast amount of end game content, less grinding of quests and a more pvp/pve content.

 

I've broken it down into a more "explanatory" context for the players that are surely going to disagree with my statements, regardless of how true they may or may not be in your own opinions. With a casual player, we'll say they have roughly 3 hours of play time per day, averaging roughly 15-20 hours per week, at an average of 3-4 levels per week. And this is only if you wish to level every single class from 1-50 for both factions, meaning you're that diehard for a storyline.

 

(based on casual players, that aren't glued to their computers 24/7 and actually listening to the story/side quests)

3-4 levels per week, with 15-20 hours playing time

3+ months per character

8 different story lines = 24 months of non-stop leveling alts

(optional leveling both sub-classes) 16 different sub-classes = 48 months

 

and that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

I enjoy tor, i think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

 

i rp

[GalacticKegger]

Whatever you say buddy, are you rich? cause I have this beautiful bridge I need to get rid off..

 

Then I'll have money to play two real MMO plus SWTOR yay!

Hehe. Not sure if 50¢ a day makes me rich. But I am a gamer who goes way back - long before personal PCs. Patience seems to be a dying art. The belief for some is that the best of everything they have ever experienced in gaming is somehow an industry benchmark, should be automatically included in a developer's title and working to perfection before it ever hits the shelves. I have no such delusions, and am quite happy being a part of TOR's growth process.

 

I understand how paying 50¢ a day for anything undesirable can be a concern. If a player doesn't feel a game is worth 3 Starbuck's Frappucinos a month, that's ok. Stay away from Starbucks. Just wish those folks would stop crashing Starbucks lobbies screaming at the patrons that the coffee is fail, it is dying, it will get trounced by Panera's Cafe Latte' sales, and that they are idiots for being there. Um, these are Starbucks customers in a Starbucks store willfully making a Starbucks purchase. Which part of "stop" is so confusing?

Edited April 23, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Eborix]

I have no interest whatever in the end game content of this or any other MMO that I have played. I like TOR primarily because of the storylines. I think the levelling process goes much to fast, but then I think every MMO I have played since EQ levelled to fast.

When I get tired of playing different characters in this game I will leave. I don't expect an MMO to hold my attention for 5 years. It would be nice, but since they all seem to be oriented towards "end game" raids and PVP, I dont see myself staying with one longer then a year.

 

I played EQ for 4 years, never made max level, although I know a lot of people who rushed through to max level. I enjoyed the game but left because of very poor customer service and the "dumbing down" of the game to make it easier for people to reach max level.

[Shockazilla]

good riddance to it too!

 

Here here. The raiding experience was more negative that positive in some aspects.

[JeramieCrowe]

Right, and just because chess is a 2 player game doesen't mean you can't play it solo too but thats not what I'm saying.

 

When you subscribe to a mmo, you're trading off what single player games do better to "join raids and such."

 

Thats why not.

 

You say theres too many closed minded people on the forums because why? Oh yeah because they don't agree with you and thats what you call "open minded" of course.

 

One of the biggest complaints from other MMOs is that there is not enough to do solo, even for raiders who play during the day waiting for raiding guildmates to get home from school/work. Basically, if the guild wasn't on, there was nothing to do.

 

So, finally, a developer makes an MMO with just as much endgame content at launch that other MMOs launched with, if not more, but ALSO so much solo content that people like me who play all day aren't bored to tears waiting on guildies.

 

And now people complain about that? We have the best of both worlds, more endgame and group content than any other MMO launched with, and it's not good enough? I think some people simply refuse to be pleased. Maybe they're afraid that if they finally admit that it's a good thing, they'll be called fanbois. *shrug*

 

I just look at it objectively and quantifiably.

Edited April 22, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[JeramieCrowe]

That being said SWTOR is about 69% MMO, 31% instanced single player game.

 

It's about time you said something I agree with. And, you know what? It's about damned time an MMO developer did this! Because even at that 69/31 ratio, it's still about 9% more MMO that any other MMO, and 21% more single player than any other MMO.

 

That's nothing but a good thing.

[Lokai]

he has a point honestly...as a big bioware fan, a lover of good story games, and an rper...i really don't want 20 dozen alts... as i am now rerolling on another server, i find myself doing BH story JUST to unlock the chiss race...after that i will be focused on one class. Yes i have played almost every story for every class once... but most of people i play with are really not that interested in alt classes AND even myself...

 

i cant stand jedi storys

the smuggler is uninteresting

the BH story was least interesting story from get go

IA while interesting is not something i like

SI story was really not what i expected...though i played it i was disappointed...

 

So that means of all storys i've played ONLY Sith Warrior and Trooper really all that interesting to me... and i have NO plans on leveling a dozen alts i'm going to have myself a sith warrior and will probably be it... maybe an SI on next server if only because i like the concept. But if BW is banking on " alts " as a marketing scheme to keep subs it will fall on its face.

[MWidowmaker]

just because you didnt like them doesnt mean there arent others who do like them.

[FAAmecanic]

Considering I have a level 44 Sith Assassin and a level 45 Repub Trooper, and Im deep in consideration and looking forward to leveling my next two (probably a Bounty Hunter or Sith Jauggernaut for the Imp side, and maybe a smuggler on the Repub side), I would say the OP's post is opinion, and doesnt match my opinion.

 

Im loving SWTOR, loving the storyline, and can honestly see by the time I have say, 4 level 50 toons, BIO making so many changes to the game that it wont be the same game when I get to that point.

 

HOWEVER they will need to move fairly quickly on Endgame material, as they will loose a significant amount (like the OP) that like to get one main and one alt max level.....

 

Guess it all depends on your perspective.

[CKNairb]

Space Combat - reminds me of the "way back" of X-Wing and Tie Fighter...

 

You never played Xwing or Tie fighter did you? If this space combat reminds of any starwars game, it's Rogue Squandron

[Anosa]

im not a fan of alts at all so i dont plan on it really

[achwas]

Yes i have played almost every story for every class once... but most of people i play with are really not that interested in alt classes AND even myself...

Oddly enough, if you get/ a good guild and act with some maturity, most people will like you. and care about you. Food for thought perhaps

I find it odd that people expect to be treated differently ingame from out-of-game

.

 

i cant stand jedi storys

the smuggler is uninteresting

the BH story was least interesting story from get go

IA while interesting is not something i like

SI story was really not what i expected...though i played it i was disappointed...

 

So that means of all storys i've played ONLY Sith Warrior and Trooper really all that interesting to me... and i have NO plans on leveling a dozen alts i'm going to have myself a sith warrior and will probably be it... maybe an SI on next server if only because i like the concept. But if BW is banking on " alts " as a marketing scheme to keep subs it will fall on its face.

 

So what : I disliked the Trooper quest ( so terribly clichee and dumb ), liked the Sith Warrior Quest except for that silly finale, Sith Inquisitor was "meh", Jedi Knight was exceptionally stupid (up into Act II, stopped there ) , Bounty Hunter's was... well mediocre but had fantastic companions and their sub-plots. Consular's story was sluggish but took up speed over time, but never really went "brilliant". The smuggler's narrative was great - for me that is (my GF disagrees ). Operative looks fun, too.

 

Why am I telling this ? Simply to point out, that each narrative has it's fan base, narrower or broader to which it will appeal. That's why the stories are different in type. And to find out which are interesting, you have to play them.

 

WoW's character's had no story, no real soul, and after the first year you ran them up to max level only, because everything on the way there had been done before. No replay value in that, none at all.

 

I consider BW's choice a rather considered and well made one.

And I have a lot of RL friends (yeah^^) who would never have touched an MMORPG like WoW playing SWTOR, because it is basically "KOTOR-Online". Hence... new customers who'd otherwise never have opted for the genre. Who play for the story and the events, and who actually enjoy telling about how they "experienced" some part of their character's narrative arc.. "you know that smuggler mission with the cannibals on Tattoine...."

[Sanxxx]

So, finally, a developer makes an MMO with just as much endgame content at launch that other MMOs launched with, if not more, but ALSO so much solo content that people like me who play all day aren't bored to tears waiting on guildies.

 

This may well be the case but the difficulty level that BW put on this content allows players to burn trough it much quicker than other MMORPGs so they get bored and leave. Also certain features cannot be considered content i.e. Dailies.

[JeramieCrowe]

This may well be the case but the difficulty level that BW put on this content allows players to burn trough it much quicker than other MMORPGs so they get bored and leave. Also certain features cannot be considered content i.e. Dailies.

 

Yeah, I hate dailies, no matter what MMO. Rarely do them. I level alts through the storylines I haven't experienced yet. Hardmode for leveling content is "Dismiss Companion". Then when guildies come on in the evening, it's World Boss/HM/Op/FP/RP/whatever tickles our fancies.

Edited April 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[KivanSane]

Wow has been doing non stop leveling for 7 years.

 

Still waiting for it to fail .

 

 

Seems to me swtor is following a tried and true path here.

[Shingara]

Whatever you say lol... You took my words out of context btw and you're quote merits no other response..

 

What is there to take out of context exactly.

 

All the people in this thread that say the "journey" & the "story" is what drives them are single player gamers and obviously not experienced MMO players. No experienced MMO guild concerned with PvE progress will ever want the player that wants "story" and "journey" in their raid team that's for sure, maybe as friends or family of a raider but that's about it. End-game is supposed to be the biggest part of the game in an MMO but that's not the real problem SWTOR is facing today imo, people are just getting bored of having no one to do "anything" with since a majority(definitely more than half) of the servers are very light pop.

 

That being said, PvE is so bad in this game that endGame doesn't really matter to me. I'll stick to pvp until D3..

 

Any old school mmo player knows that in old school mmos most of the stuff we did revolved around social actions from the community and didnt rely on endgame raids only. Hardcore raiders are well known to make up a small % of any playerbase on any mmo.

 

Even full time crafters make up a bigger % then hardcore raiders, more people enjoy leveling alts, chasing acheivement set by the game or themselves, generally messing about with mates and playing pvp to be the best because they enjoy pvp not the rewards they give.

 

So like i said toodle pip and enjoy D3.

[Electricdawn]

This thread (and others) just reconfirms my opinion that future MMOGs developers will have to decide which group of players they will cater to.

 

1. The hard core raiders (maybe 10 to 20%?)

2. The hard core PVPers (maybe another 10 to 20%?)

3. The casuals (the overwhelming rest)

 

You can't just try to please all of them in one game. Apart maybe from WoW, this path will fail in future games. Again, this is just my opinion.

 

 

-E

Edited April 23, 2012 by Electricdawn

[achwas]

All the people in this thread that say the "journey" & the "story" is what drives them are single player gamers and obviously not experienced MMO players. No experienced MMO guild concerned with PvE progress will ever want the player that wants "story" and "journey" in their raid team that's for sure, maybe as friends or family of a raider but that's about it. End-game is supposed to be the biggest part of the game in an MMO but that's not the real problem SWTOR is facing today imo, people are just getting bored of having no one to do "anything" with since a majority(definitely more than half) of the servers are very light pop.

 

That being said, PvE is so bad in this game that endGame doesn't really matter to me. I'll stick to pvp until D3..

You are wrong on so many counts it is hard to keep a straight face.Personally I've been playing MMO's since EQ1. So do many of my friends. And it is all about the story, the history, discovering the world for us. Not judging but what did you do 12 years ago ? Junior high school ?

 

Many in my actually very competitive TOR guild feel the same. This does not mean everyone does "play for the story", . but a sizable part of the player base does NOT PvP all day long, does not theorycraft for maximum stats and does actually listen to/read the narrative. Xes, people do care about the game

 

You don't ? Your privilege , ....but do not extrapolate from your own limited (in the sens that you are one single person) perspective to everyone else.

 

And yes, we - the storyline players - are the guys who discover the cool and hidden events, bosses, drops, datacrons, hidden paths etc......, we do the crafting other live off and actually do not QQ all day long on the forums because our personal wishful fantasy is not implemented "yesterday, basta !".

[Nidza]

It's a theme-park MMO and a colossal failure but it's better than that WoW for me and more entertaining than EVE.

Basically if it wasn't star wars mmo I would never come back to it.

I leveled a main to 50

alt to 30 quit

now lvling a new alt on republic

[ZORG]

Well, then, I guess this isn't for you. I've found differences which actually surprised me as I expected it to always be as you assert in doing various planet quest series. I got different choices and was able to make different responses between my sage and my 'slinger.

 

Yes Gunslinger/smuggy has the best lines I think. Its the perfect class to play to break up the repetivness..

[Sanxxx]

You are wrong on so many counts it is hard to keep a straight face.Personally I've been playing MMO's since EQ1. So do many of my friends. And it is all about the story, the history, discovering the world for us.

 

I've also been playing since EQ1, not sure whether you're still playing SWTOR or not however whilst the story and journey may be entertaining the journey is far too short and re the OP unless you like many alts the game gets old fast.

 

I may have cancelled my sub but overall I got my money's worth so no real complaint.

[DieAlteHexe]

I've also been playing since EQ1, not sure whether you're still playing SWTOR or not however whilst the story and journey may be entertaining the journey is far too short and re the OP unless you like many alts the game gets old fast.

 

I may have cancelled my sub but overall I got my money's worth so no real complaint.

 

I would wager there is a pretty strong correlation between people who enjoy alts and people how enjoy the "journey". I have been playing since the 27th of December and am just now creeping up on level 50 with one character. The rest range from mid-20s to late 30s.

 

So, for me anyway, the journey is just about right. I'm probably good for another 4 or 5 months at this rate, if not longer as I really haven't done much with the Empire side yet.

[DieAlteHexe]

Yes Gunslinger/smuggy has the best lines I think. Its the perfect class to play to break up the repetivness..

 

So far, my favourite. Jedi (especially consular) sometimes makes me want to yell "LOOSEN UP!" and the trooper a bit gung-ho but I have found it's fun to tweak Aric sometimes.

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane