Why non-stop alt leveling will fail.

[DieAlteHexe]

Great for you, but the few friends I have, and have had for over 25 years, live in different states now. Egocentric much?

 

Totally get that but then isn't it a bit churlish to grouse because you're playing a game in order to socialise with long term friends? That was a choice you made (via them, I get that). Maybe rotate games...they play something you like for half a year and then vice versa?

[Txangki]

I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game.

 

Even though EA has data on every account, including how many alts they have and how much time they spend on them, and a marketing department that has marketing people who have degrees in marketing and careers in marketing (and likely some of them did marketing in the marketing department for other games and have experience of good and bad marketing strategies for marketing games), they're just not in a position to make informed decisions like we are.

[iceperson]

swtor is not meant to be a life replacement

[DieAlteHexe]

swtor is not meant to be a life replacement

 

Absolutely true!

 

See, what some folks miss though is that not everyone is in a huge hurry. I play MMOs for years. So, if it takes me, say, 2 years here to get my alts to lvl. 50, that is fine with me. So long as I enjoy the journey, that's what counts. If that journey takes me years and I'm having fun the whole time...even better. Cheap entertainment!

[sithlordcip]

Nice opinion, bro.

 

This!

[Jett-Rinn]

Bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game. However, with Bioware's main focus as I stated before which is clearly centered around leveling and this story of theirs isn't going to last long at all. The only way this game will make it 5 years from now, is with a vast amount of end game content, less grinding of quests and a more PvP/PvE content.

 

I've broken it down into a more "explanatory" context for the players that are surely going to disagree with my statements, regardless of how true they may or may not be in your own opinions. With a casual player, we'll say they have roughly 3 hours of play time per day, averaging roughly 15-20 hours per week, at an average of 3-4 levels per week. And this is only if you wish to level every single class from 1-50 for both factions, meaning you're that diehard for a storyline.

 

(Based on casual players, that aren't glued to their computers 24/7 and actually listening to the story/side quests)

3-4 levels per week, with 15-20 hours playing time

3+ months per character

8 different story lines = 24 months of non-stop leveling alts

(optional leveling both sub-classes) 16 different sub-classes = 48 months

 

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

I enjoy TOR, I think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this Bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I disagree

[Vlaxitov]

OP,

 

The hardcore/raiders are in the minority, you guys represent approximately 5% of the population.

 

Theres lots lof casual raiders in mmos now a days and you need to substantiate these claims.

 

That figure comes from WoW data that shows less than 5% of guilds have downed Deathwing across all servers and less than 1% have slain Herioc Deathwing.

 

Again, I'd like you to substantiate these claims because tons of casual guilds have downed normal deathwing. Even if latter true which I doubt it is, yep less than 1% have totally beat the "hardmode" game. That of course means that only 1% is trying to beat the game in hardmode right?

 

The philosophy that any video game's worth is based on how many people can beat the pants off it at the highest difficulty never ceases to amaze me.

[illgot]

Guessing you're not a role-player then. Story gives motivation and reasons to your actions. Doing quests just because they give xp gets boring fast and is a good way to get burnt out. Have to enjoy what you do.

 

incidently part of the reason I struggle with alts, I don't have the imagination and creativity to make separate reasons to do the same quests on different characters. All my motivations for doing the quests are the same.

 

I'm not an RPer but I will grind for weeks just to make my character look good. The reason I play alts is because I get an idea of how that class can look different from everyone else but still look great. I'll play that class, reach my goal, then stop playing. I'm a very odd MMOer in that I don't like grinding for stats but I like grinding for fun gear and working the broker.

 

I really joined this game to play with my friends but I found that we could never really play together past the first couple of weeks. We all have different leveling speeds, we were constantly in different zones, and when we hit 50 we were often on at different times anyway.

Edited April 22, 2012 by illgot

[FourTwent]

Bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game. However, with Bioware's main focus as I stated before which is clearly centered around leveling and this story of theirs isn't going to last long at all. The only way this game will make it 5 years from now, is with a vast amount of end game content, less grinding of quests and a more PvP/PvE content.

 

I've broken it down into a more "explanatory" context for the players that are surely going to disagree with my statements, regardless of how true they may or may not be in your own opinions. With a casual player, we'll say they have roughly 3 hours of play time per day, averaging roughly 15-20 hours per week, at an average of 3-4 levels per week. And this is only if you wish to level every single class from 1-50 for both factions, meaning you're that diehard for a storyline.

 

(Based on casual players, that aren't glued to their computers 24/7 and actually listening to the story/side quests)

3-4 levels per week, with 15-20 hours playing time

3+ months per character

8 different story lines = 24 months of non-stop leveling alts

(optional leveling both sub-classes) 16 different sub-classes = 48 months

 

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

I enjoy TOR, I think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this Bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Your math is just assumptions and is horribly wrong I would think.

 

Saying a 'casual' player is going to play a video game for 15-20 hours a week is silly. Try more like 5 hours. . .10 at the MAX. Which at LEAST doubles your calculation's time investment(2 years becomes 4 years).

 

Then again, if you think rationally, the typical casual player wont have a goal to max out every class(that's the mentality of the completionist. . .which is more in lines with a hardcore player).

 

You ask 'why on earth would someone enjoy leveling', but really who are you to assume people dont. This original post really just shows how ignorant and closed minded you are(first it was assumptions, then it turned into opinions). Just because 'you' dont like leveling in no way shape or form does that mean everyone else doesn't like it.

 

You fail to remember that Bioware focused on the story. You fail to remember that gamers know this, and a lot of the playerbase is probably(look, i can make assumptions like you)just a single player PC gamer wanting to experience the stories. You fail to remember that during the development process, Bioware repeatedly said over and over the focus was to be on story(assuming things like end game to be fully fleshed out on a game that was launched just 4 months ago is just that, your assumption).

Edited April 22, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment

[MWidowmaker]

i would rather level alts than deal with aholes in raids.... the stories are so much more interesting than listening to some jagoff burping and eating cheetos in vent trying to act like he is a ****** and attempting to bully or denigrate other people all the time

[VordakGef]

I've been playing since December and I've only reached level 43. Based on the OP's "guesstaments," exactly how long will it take me to finish the game if I go the alt route? Edited April 22, 2012 by VordakGef

[Sanxxx]

I agree with the OP's basic premise but fundamentally disagree with ' everything begins at end game'.

 

For me it's all about the journey and progression of one character and in this respect the laughably easy and short time needed to get to max level leads to a short term game.

[codycroft]

The game starts at end game is just the meme left over from the grossly popular mmo that has been running for a decade that a lot of people ditched for this game. It's taking them time to adjust to the idea that t his game hasn't been around for a decade and that the actual game is the game.

 

Now, that will change in the coming years, but for now, 1-50 is the game.

[Logiick]

I'm barely interested in leveling my main, considering I've had the game since launch and am only 34. rofl.

[ConnorSalak]

I do not care about story. I did not care about story in WoW, AOC, AO, EQ, UO, etc. The only time I cared a little about the story was in Asheron's Call and only because each month they rolled out a new story and content.

I am not a Star Wars fan. I came here with friends who were and they all moved to more populated servers. I personally am only playing TOR until I can play GW2 or TSW, both of which I know nothing about.

 

This game is about story and Star Wars. You don't care about story and you're not a SW fan. So why bother at all?It seems that SWTOR is simply not the right game for you.

 

As for me, I'm currently leveling my third character (LVL 48) and there are many more to come! I'm in this game for the story and I really enjoy it very much.

[ConnorSalak]

The game starts at end game is just the meme left over from the grossly popular mmo that has been running for a decade that a lot of people ditched for this game. It's taking them time to adjust to the idea that t his game hasn't been around for a decade and that the actual game is the game.

 

Now, that will change in the coming years, but for now, 1-50 is the game.

 

Wise words!

Those adherents of the very popular unnamed MMO should either adjust or return to what they know and not whine or hate in any forum. Wake up guys, this is Harrison Ford and not Chuck Norris!

[Andryah]

I agree with the OP's basic premise but fundamentally disagree with ' everything begins at end game'.

 

For me it's all about the journey and progression of one character and in this respect the laughably easy and short time needed to get to max level leads to a short term game.

 

But it seems we are destined to get lectured (ad nauseum) about how we should play and what gives us fun inside an MMO, by our friendly cordial "the game starts at 50" crowd. I believe the shrinks call it "projection".

Edited April 22, 2012 by Andryah

[Shingara]

But it seems we are destined to get lectured (ad nauseum) about how we should play and what gives us fun inside an MMO, by our friendly cordial "the game starts at 50" crowd. I believe the shrinks call it "projection".

 

This is just the legacy of people coming from wow and nothing more really, they have been to other games and sent those effects to those mmos too but it doesnt wash here, WoW itself is just a gear race and that is all, who has the biggest shiney and the most purples and the biggest item score on the server.

 

SWTOR is much more, gear isnt a huge biggie and bioware have done there best to make this the case and not a gear race, the storys are great and people are really enjoying the leveling process and even doing them multiple times and both sides whilst not feeling the need to spacebar everything and get to 50 asap.

[Quintan]

All the people in this thread that say the "journey" & the "story" is what drives them are single player gamers and obviously not experienced MMO players. No experienced MMO guild concerned with PvE progress will ever want the player that wants "story" and "journey" in their raid team that's for sure, maybe as friends or family of a raider but that's about it. End-game is supposed to be the biggest part of the game in an MMO but that's not the real problem SWTOR is facing today imo, people are just getting bored of having no one to do "anything" with since a majority(definitely more than half) of the servers are very light pop.

 

That being said, PvE is so bad in this game that endGame doesn't really matter to me. I'll stick to pvp until D3..

Edited April 22, 2012 by Quintan

[Shingara]

All the people in this thread that say the "journey" & the "story" is what drives them are single player gamers and obviously not experienced MMO players. No experienced MMO guild concerned with PvE progress will ever want the player that wants "story" and "journey" in their raid team that's for sure, maybe as friends or family of a raider but that's about it. End-game is supposed to be the biggest part of the game in an MMO but that's not the real problem SWTOR is facing today imo, people are just getting bored of having no one to do "anything" with since a majority(definitely more than half) of the servers are very light pop.

 

That being said, PvE is so bad in this game that endGame doesn't really matter to me. I'll stick to pvp until D3..

 

Simply by your statement i can see that you are not a mmo old school. The journey in all mmos is one of the best things about them, even in wow but people mostly ignore it these days simply to do raiding thus the way bliz are giving out 80's like candy to enforce that feeling amongst there hardcore subscribers.

 

And to state that no serious guild would take a player that loves story and lore is so wrong its beyond discussing. Endgame is a part of the game, not the whole game just a part of it. But do enjoy D3 toodle pip.

[Vlaxitov]

i would rather level alts than deal with aholes in raids.... the stories are so much more interesting than listening to some jagoff burping and eating cheetos in vent trying to act like he is a ****** and attempting to bully or denigrate other people all the time

 

Why play a mmo and not just stick with single player games then?

[greenleef]

I just leveled my 4th 50 and I got to say I'm getting sick of it myself I'm a casual gamer and only level alts because raiding is way to easy so the guild will do them in one night and with every boss droping so many items after doing a couple time noone needs any loot. And pvp ques take so long on my standard server that sitting in fleet for 10 to 20 minutes with nothing else to do is boring. I look at this game as single player with a few bad mmo options.

[FourTwent]

All the people in this thread that say the "journey" & the "story" is what drives them are single player gamers and obviously not experienced MMO players. No experienced MMO guild concerned with PvE progress will ever want the player that wants "story" and "journey" in their raid team that's for sure, maybe as friends or family of a raider but that's about it. End-game is supposed to be the biggest part of the game in an MMO but that's not the real problem SWTOR is facing today imo, people are just getting bored of having no one to do "anything" with since a majority(definitely more than half) of the servers are very light pop.

 

That being said, PvE is so bad in this game that endGame doesn't really matter to me. I'll stick to pvp until D3..

 

again, you're assuming that this game was made for the hardcore mmo guilds/gamers.

 

that's like playing hello kitty online and expecting end game raids(or whatever else they have there) is what everyone is interested in.

 

this is a theme park mmo, always has, always will.

 

im sorry that you confused this game to be something that it isn't(assumptions suck, but there was plenty of info given out before release to show you this wasn't going to be that kind of game).

 

i do hope you enjoy diablo 3. i played the beta this weekend and ill tell you that it is NOT fun lol. maybe if you want to play it on a console, since the whole game's design/mechanics where changed to fit a controller pad and is not very keyboard/mouse friendly.

 

i just hope you dont start assuming too much. . .like you did with this game.

[FourTwent]

Why play a mmo and not just stick with single player games then?

 

why not?

 

just because YOU play an MMO to join raids and such doesn't mean everyone has to.

 

do you know there are people playing skyrim right now that have never even done any of the story parts. . .and only exploring. do you know that there are others that strictly did the storyline and ignored the exploration(missing out on a LOT of dragons to fight).

 

who are you to tell someone how they should enjoy playing a game. if someone wanted to play swtor strictly for the crafting. . .or strictly for the vanity pets. then let them! you have no right telling them that they can't enjoy the game or shouldn't enjoy the game as much as you do with your raids.

 

too many closed minded ppl on internet forums

[Nyoro]

People will be inclined to level alts if only the game had a dungeon and heroic quest finder. This game feels far too much like a single player game and many people find it too boring to level a single character to 50 solo, let alone two. Keep in mind with the population decline it's even harder to find people to group with which is just making the problem that much worse.

 

BioWare need to implement fool proof grouping systems, much like WoWs which take all the hard and boring work of getting groups together automatically so people can log on and be playing with other players in minutes. The open party system on Warhammer Worked extremely well, as did the public quests so it's a mystery why BioWare they didn't implement them, especially since they have Mythic. I personally haven't experienced over half of the flashpoints simply because it's too much hassle and I'm willing to bet over 90% of subscribers are in the same situation.

 

TLDR: If you want this game to work BioWare, make grouping faster/easier.