Chat Bubbles: We need an option to enable them for say, yell and emote chat!

[mentalmackem]

That isn't an excuse. There are many other features that take an even bigger performance hit than chat bubbles, like Anti-Aliasing, for example, that can be toggled on and off and don't even work on all systems that can run the game. So this excuse just has no merit at all. As long as there is an option to toggle any feature on or off, it's all good and the choice of the player.

 

Um, no. Not the majority. It'd all be handled client side, hence it wouldn't cause any additional strain on the server. Speech bubbles would rendered completely client side and the data they need from the server to display text is already being transmitted between client and server now, as it's the same data that's being displayed inside the chat window already.

 

The devs already said they have the fix or at least know how to fix it. They have applied it to nameplates before launch that had the exact same issue, but ran out of time to apply it to chat bubbles as well. If you don't believe me, just read the dev quotes in the top post of this thread (they are hidden inside a spoiler tag nowadays). They just need to put it on a higher priority to finally fix them and implement them instead of pushing it back all the time because they don't think it's important enough. If the game had been postponed for a couple of months, I'm sure we'd had chat bubbles in it since launch as they'd have had enough time to fix it and said it was a top priority to do so back then.

 

How do you know it will all be client side have the devs said that as i do not see a quote were they say all client side. The chat at the moment is NOT all client side so whatever is added to it will also likely not all be client side. The server will need the chat to 2 locations client side so yes that is the server working and under further strain. Unless your planning on a slight delay for the text to be sent internally by the client so the text only comes into the client one.

 

The reason its not top priority is it is not game breaking. Some people my prefer it, but the game can continue without it.

 

Same with group finder i totally agree with the other post group finder is not needed for the game to have content.

 

However I cannot find where I said

You also say we should have them because we don't need them.

. So if you can link that, I would appreciate it as if I did say that I don't mean it and don't understand why I said it and of course will apologise if I have said. However it is rather poor if you have made it up to try and further your argument for the subject.

 

 

What I did say however is that chat bubble are a total social aspect of the game. Which they are, any type of char is in any game

 

Again if you go back to when i "cite" Eve on-line you will see i site it as proof that you in no way need chat bubble to communicate, so anyone saying people do not communicate because there is no chat bubbles is away with the mixer. You can communicate without chat bubbles you CHOOSE not to.

 

Stubacca if they put chat bubbles in game but your computer could not run them even if you wanted them you would be fine with that? If not you need to read back the first then read you Answer to realise i was saying they would so even the lowest spec computers that place this game can use it or there will be more angry people at bioware.

 

Again as I have said if they can make them so they work without issue for everyone and without causing a million arguments because people with a low end graphics cant use them or whatever then sure im all for it as long as i can turn them off so I see nobody's.

[Krull-]

All of these replies are great !!!!! Continue the debate !!! Perhaps BioWare will give us some clarification on this issue soon. I'm really proud that this is # 1 suggestion box topic that is still going strong !!

 

Obviously, I'm all for this feature !!!

 

BioWare are you listening ??

 

Reply please !!!

Edited July 14, 2013 by Krull-

[anonnn]

Chat Bubbles are blatantly all client side. Any decent software engineer who is familiar with how chat is working in SWToR now, can figure that out off the top of their head.

 

Just because not all video cards would run smoothly with Chat Bubbles, doesn't mean there aren't possibilities. There could be a cheapie version, and an enhanced version. The cheapie version would be plain boxes over the player's head, while the enhanced version would have rounded corners and cartoon-like emote wedges emanating from the speaker's head (maybe even a volumetric cloud that is semi-transparent). Cheapies would disappear suddenly, while the enhanced version would fade gracefully. There's also the issue of style of text and box outline, to differentiate the 3 different chats using /say /yell /emote ...cheapies would just have different text color, while the enhanced version could also have styled outlines (such as jagged outline for /yell).

[Krull-]

You Anonnn are awesome,

 

Those ideas of yours would be great if it was implemented !!!

If only if the Devs could respond and tell us what's exactly going on !!

[Stubacca]

Stubacca if they put chat bubbles in game but your computer could not run them even if you wanted them you would be fine with that?

Yes. If there were client-side performance issues that would make the game unplayable with my low-end hardware, I would even upgrade my computer just so I could use them. Finally being able to roleplay longer than around an hour without getting a headache and immersing myself into the Star Wars universe together with my friends that have left the game because of the lack of chat bubbles is certainly worth that much to me.

 

Chat Bubbles are blatantly all client side. Any decent software engineer who is familiar with how chat is working in SWToR now, can figure that out off the top of their head.

Exactly. Edited July 15, 2013 by Stubacca

[MajikMyst]

Chat Bubbles are blatantly all client side. Any decent software engineer who is familiar with how chat is working in SWToR now, can figure that out off the top of their head.

 

You are obviously not software engineer.. Please speak to what you know and not what you don't know..

 

Chat bubbles are not all client side.. In fact nothing in the game is all client side.. Everything we do and say in chat goes through the game server.. Everything we do in the game goes through the game server.. In fact our clients are just displaying what the server tells it to..

 

If your statement were true, we wouldn't need a server to play..

 

Chat bubbles would create more traffic for the server.. The bubbles are displayed by everyone that has the feature turned on.. Not like a private chat that only shows up in the chat windows of the people chatting.. Or guild chat which is only seen by guild members.. Chat bubbles would potentially be seen by all.. Again, because it comes from the server..

[MajikMyst]

Yes, I realize that an apparently ill-informed Bioware representative (who I remember was not an UI programmer and thus may have used unfortunate wording in her or his post) may have worded it that way and people doubted this was the case. Also, TOR UI programmer Cory Kolek has rebuked that since and made it clear that the performance problem was client-side as chat bubbles were taking up too much video memory (just like the nameplates before they were fixed). This also explains why beta testers with high-end video cards that sported above average amounts of video memory like myself (I had GeForce GTX580 video cards with 3GB of video memory each back then which was way above norm) never had any performance issues with enabled chat bubbles during testing, even in crowded areas with lots of people talking in /say chat while people with little video memory did notice performance issues with chat bubbles enabled.

 

Gizmo what is with you?? There is no ill informed Bioware member.. You are the one that is ill informed.. Chat bubbles actually has very little to do with the UI.. As I said in my post above.. Chat bubbles would potentially be seen by all.. This would dramatically increase server load.. Anyone who has chat bubbles turned on would see the messages.. You then consider the fact of how many people might be using them on the fleet or other high population areas, and you could be looking at a severe performance issue.. Oh wait.. We are..

 

You never had any issues with chat bubbles during testing.. What a lame statement.. I didn't have any issues with them during the beta either.. But the beta servers had what, a 20th of the population the servers have now?? Think dude.. Seriously..

Edited July 15, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Glzmo]

You are obviously not software engineer.. Please speak to what you know and not what you don't know..

 

Chat bubbles are not all client side.. In fact nothing in the game is all client side.. Everything we do and say in chat goes through the game server.. Everything we do in the game goes through the game server.. In fact our clients are just displaying what the server tells it to..

 

If your statement were true, we wouldn't need a server to play..

 

Chat bubbles would create more traffic for the server.. The bubbles are displayed by everyone that has the feature turned on.. Not like a private chat that only shows up in the chat windows of the people chatting.. Or guild chat which is only seen by guild members.. Chat bubbles would potentially be seen by all.. Again, because it comes from the server..

Welcome back to the thread!

Certainly the client would need data from the server to display chat bubbles at the right time and place with the proper content, you're right about that. But that's the very same data you need for the chat window and the display of the characters on the screen already. The chat data is sent and received in the game right now already, otherwise we wouldn't be able to chat in the game. The client would decide when to display a chat bubble based on the chat data coming in to be displayed, which is already happeneing for the chat window based on maximum range of the channel anyway. The positional data needed to make them them pop up over the proper character's head can be easily calculated based on the position of the character on the screen, which is already transmitted from and to the server (of course, additional calculations to offset the chat bubble and display it based on various factors are needed client side and a client-side, ideally user-adjustable, timer how long a chat bubble can be displayed before being destroeyed would have to count down, but I digress). There is no need for extra data at all, thus adding chat bubbles wouldn't increase server traffic over not having them. That'd be a client-side GUI feature that would use the data from the server that is already being submitted.

So yes, in the worst-case scenario (for example, if all characters on the server stand in /say range of all other characters and all say something at the same time and everyone has chat bubbles enabled) all the chat bubbles could very well have the potential to be seen by everyone. It still wouldn't cause the server any additional strain compared to having the same situation on live servers right now without having chat bubbles implemented/enabled. I'd also expect there to be a maximum (ideally user-adjustable) number of chat bubbles that can be displayed at any given time on each client (and prioritized based on proximity to the character, etc.), so the strain on each client machine would be at a tolerable level.

 

Gizmo what is with you?? There is no ill informed Bioware member..

How do you explain that Mr. Kolek, an actual Bioware UI programmer/UI technical Lead at the time explained that the performance issue was in fact related to chat bubbles taking up too much video memory? It's easy to deduce that somebody must have been having and spreading wrong information, which makes it appear he or she was ill-informed (I said apparently, after all). It thus seems that either the person that may have said it was a server-side issue in the beta forums had the right information or Mr. Kolek who actually had hands-on experience with the feature in this game. Guess who's explanation I'm going to put my money on until proven otherwise (heck, I'll gladly admit I was wrong if there is proof or other convincing evidence presented to me)? That's right, Mr. Kolek it is.

 

You are the one that is ill informed..

Why of course I am, as is everyone except the people that worked on the feature in this very game. Claiming anything else would be foolish. I wish I would be completely in the know (and could actually work on chat bubbles for Bioware), but I can only go with what has been said by various Bioware representatives and my own hands-on experience with such features to piece together the puzzle.

 

Chat bubbles actually has very little to do with the UI..

Chat bubbles are a graphical user interface feature. Of course they require data from the server in a massively multiplayer online game, as do all GUI features. But the feature wouldn't really require any data that isn't already there, see the explanation above.

 

As I said in my post above.. Chat bubbles would potentially be seen by all.. This would dramatically increase server load.. Anyone who has chat bubbles turned on would see the messages.. You then consider the fact of how many people might be using them on the fleet or other high population areas, and you could be looking at a severe performance issue.. Oh wait.. We are..

Performance issue yes, everything causes performance issues, although you notice it more with some things and less with others. If done properly, however, the additional ones caused by chat bubbles would be a client-side performance issues, not ones related to the server or network traffic. Thus any extra performance issues would be tied directly to the client and the computer the client is running on (except, of course, if people started chatting more due to having chat bubbles, but the servers should be able to handle such an increase as there is potential for it without chat bubbles already). This means if you opt to have the chat bubble option disabled on your client, it wouldn't cause any noticeable performance issues for you or anyone else. Edited July 15, 2013 by Glzmo

[NrDLeipe]

First it doesnt cause any performance then it does have performance issues, your even willing to upgrade your computer if the chat bubbles gives you performance issues.

 

You cant bring hard evidence since your quoteing a dev that he said its all serverside etc but you cant bring any link to back you up were in this same topic 1 of BW employees said it causes preformance issues.

 

So atm chatbubbles is gonna have data going true the servers , even if i turn my chatbubbles off yours and others still gonna use it, means its gonna travel over the server that im useing aswell and still causing lag, fps problem whatever

Edited July 15, 2013 by NrDLeipe

[Stubacca]

First it doesnt cause any performance then it does have performance issues, your even willing to upgrade your computer if the chat bubbles gives you performance issues.

What I meant was that if my computer was to weak for chat bubbles, I'd upgrade it just like I upgraded my computer when it was too weak for Anti-Aliasing and other optional features.

 

You cant bring hard evidence since your quoteing a dev that he said its all serverside etc but you cant bring any link to back you up were in this same topic 1 of BW employees said it causes preformance issues.

Cory Kolek's post is linked and quited in the top post of this thread. As Glz said before, Cory said there that the performance problem with chat bubbles in beta was because they used too much video memory (up to 400 MB), which means the performance problem if the computer you have doesn't have a video card with enough video memory and is therefore a client-side issue and it's only there if you actually enable chat bubbles on your client. In the same post, Cory said they had the same issue with nameplates but fixed it but didn't have the time to do the same for chat bubbles before launch. So basically they know how to fix the performance problem issue, but they haven't made the time for it yet. When they do, there likely won't be any more problems than there are with nameplates at the moment (which are also an option you can also turn off to improve your client performance, by the way).

 

So atm chatbubbles is gonna have data going true the servers , even if i turn my chatbubbles off yours and others still gonna use it, means its gonna travel over the server that im useing aswell and still causing lag, fps problem whatever

No. There is no extra strain on the server as all the data that chat bubbles really need to get from the server and send back is already being received and sent now. That means there won't be any more or any less strain on the server due to chat bubbles compared to now. Edited July 15, 2013 by Stubacca

[NrDLeipe]

if seen that post but it doesnt say to me that when its going over the client that then the problem is solved.

Nameplates is a given name that barely changes were chatbubbles needs to be refreshed continuesly so therefor imo not the same issue.

 

AA is a grafic thingy, chatbubbles is a chat feature 2 diffrent things in my book

[anonnn]

You are obviously not software engineer.. Please speak to what you know and not what you don't know..

 

Chat bubbles are not all client side.. In fact nothing in the game is all client side.. Everything we do and say in chat goes through the game server.. Everything we do in the game goes through the game server.. In fact our clients are just displaying what the server tells it to..

 

If your statement were true, we wouldn't need a server to play..

 

Chat bubbles would create more traffic for the server.. The bubbles are displayed by everyone that has the feature turned on.. Not like a private chat that only shows up in the chat windows of the people chatting.. Or guild chat which is only seen by guild members.. Chat bubbles would potentially be seen by all.. Again, because it comes from the server..

 

Pompous much?? You seem to be probably talking about the same thing we're talking about, just from a non-technical point of view which is confusing the issue. I'll say it again, >Chat Bubbles< are blatantly all client-side. In any case, Chat Bubbles as a potentially added feature does NOT logically include any current code-base in the client or server as it exists now. Chat Bubbles as an enhancement would only require client-side post-processing of the already-existing chat functionality, to display 1 additional item, the bubble above the speaker's head. Whether the addition of Chat Bubbles brings a dramatic increase in the amount of public chat, is entirely a separate issue and isn't technically a part of the Chat Bubbles imlementation.

 

Chat Bubbles do not create more server traffic. Only the usage of public chat methods creates more server traffic. For a specific level of chat activity, the difference in server traffic now, and server traffic during Chat-Bubble-enabled gameplay, is no difference at all. It's true of course, that if Chat Bubbles are enabled, it might encourage people to public-chat more often which will naturally add to server traffic with all the additional chat activity... but this is obviously entirely a desired effect, and any opposition based solely on that characteristic will receive a swift slap in the face. This concern simply illuminates the level of testing effort BioWare will have to go to, to ensure the Chat Bubbles don't have a significant potential to bog down the server if they spur a large increase in the amount of public chat.

 

There is nothing about Chat Bubbles that would create any extra server traffic each time someone public-chats. Unless they design them with an increased display range:

There is the issue of whether BioWare would design Chat Bubbles to have range-of-display characteristics that are identical to how they are now for /say /yell /emote ...or if the distance will be adjustable by the player or increased at all. I would expect that to add to server traffic as compared to how the game works now, because I'm sure as it works now, the server is filtering out any chat from players who are not within the minimum chat distance. That's entirely a tunable setting, and I would suspect that for Chat Bubbles, BioWare won't modify the display-distance characteristics of those 3 types of chat.

 

What I would suggest for Chat Bubbles (I posted this somewhere previously) is that Chat Bubbles don't only have to be for /say /yell /emote ...it would be fantastic to also get group chat, Ops group chat, and guild chat in Chat Bubbles. Maybe even /tell and /whisper, which would be fairly awesome. I would suggest that group chat and Ops group chat be given a very large display range, since it's a very limited number of people and would actually be quite useful for FPs, Ops, and likely WZs also. Chat Bubbles for these other chats would diffuse the potential for people holding a lot of 1-on-1 conversations in /say in order to converse with a friend through Chat Bubbles.

[SawneyRath]

It would be nice to have an updated Developer Response to the existing problems with Chat Bubbles, and if they are finding a way to make time to fix the issues.

 

It is obviously a wanted feature. I'd say enough so to warrant some investigation.

[Krull-]

BioWare answer the darn question !

Are chat bubbles coming or not....?

 

Then lock this thread !!!

 

I've seen that you locked the Revan Armor thread and stated that the issue was done and over !!!

 

Seriously guys....... How is that you address the Revans Armor issue and you cant even address your #1 Topic in the suggestion forums? What the purpose of having this if your not even give us an answer?

 

Do the same for this !!! If chat bubbles are not being implemented then lock this thread and put us out of our misery!!!!!!

 

 

Give your roleplayer community a little respect and give us the same type of respect that you have given to the others.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Krull-

[Strife]

Another in support of Chat Bubbles.

[Ramcroy]

I realize my vote would hardly make a difference, but I'd just like to voice my support for this thread. Ever since I started playing as of late, I've immensely enjoyed this game and decided to cancel my subscription on another MMO in its stead. Now, the only thing I truly find lacking are the chat bubbles, which would make life a lot easier, especially if one were to be in an RP-situation.

[Inflicktion]

There was actually an update (I suppose you could call it) that seems to have gone mostly under the radar, but in the 'Work with Czerka' thread this was asked on July 16th;

 

Will joining Czerka ensure that chat bubbles will be implemented in one of the next patches? If I get a guarantee for that, I'll join for the greater good of the game.

 

CourtneyWoods replied with this;

 

Unfortunately, we are unable to discuss specifics of ongoing Czerka projects-

 

So it seems they haven't given up on them yet.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Inflicktion

[Glzmo]

There was actually an update (I suppose you could call it) that seems to have gone mostly under the radar, but in the 'Work with Czerka' thread this was asked on July 16th;

 

CourtneyWoods replied with this;

 

So it seems they haven't given up on them yet.

Let the rumours and speculation begin.

[BadOrb]

Let the rumours and speculation begin.

 

Thought I would chime in as they say to show my full support of Chat Bubbles , you do fine work Gizmo and others like you. Keep up the work hopefully one day they will release Chat Bubbles with a simple toggle on and off , I really can't see how or why it is taking them so long.

 

Chat Bubbles ON / OFF , do it for your fans Bioware please ?

 

Maybe Czerka will bring them in , let's hope so.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Basreia]

I believe bringing chat bubbles into the game, with a nice roleplay event such as Czerka, would be very fantastic and a genuine way for them to introduce them

[SawneyRath]

There was actually an update (I suppose you could call it) that seems to have gone mostly under the radar, but in the 'Work with Czerka' thread this was asked on July 16th;

 

 

 

CourtneyWoods replied with this;

 

 

 

So it seems they haven't given up on them yet.

 

If this is referring to Chat Bubbles, my heart just skipped a few beats. Come on Czerka! Don't fail me now!

[Aries_cz]

Chat bubbles have proven to be a huge strain on the system in beta, so they will probably not be added until more optimization is done.

[Aramyth]

I didn't like the idea of chat bubbles until I played GW2, and you know what, they are spiffy. I'd love to have them in SWTOR. Edited July 19, 2013 by Aramyth

[DarthKombat]

Chat bubbles would be super useful to see who is saying what without having to match usernames from chatbox to person, it's weird not having them after playing WoW!

[SawneyRath]

Just for clarity, I dug up the whole quote:

 

Unfortunately, we are unable to discuss specifics of ongoing Czerka projects with non-employees, including applicants. Please consider submitting an application as we feel you could be a wonderful addition to our Czerka family.

 

GIzmo, did you post an application!? I hope you did!