This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Buur]

I didn't think of that, like I said in my post I have a 3 widescreen eyefinity setup so my companion info and map are anchored to my the bottom left and right corners of my left and right monitors...which sucks...but I guess it made room for me to bring chat down lol.

 

I missed that part of your post. I am now jealous.

[Lheim]

Addons and macros might be nice, but I'm the sort that'd rather see the default UI expanded.

 

Without sharp limitations, addons start to define the playing field in a way that is detrimental to the game. Player skill should be the difference between success and failure in groups, not which person has an addon.

 

Why? Do you expect to provide everybody with an equally performing system as well?

 

Because that'll have just as much, if not more of an impact. At least it costs the same amount of money to have an addon...none. Getting a better system? Not even close to fair!

 

You totally miss my point. Addons change the very nature of the game, and yet, not for everyone, and not equally at that. Far more than having to lower your graphical settings do, at least for ways that competitive people care about.

 

 

Who'd win? A tennis player with an old wodden racket, or one with nano-carbon-fiber crap? How could you be certain that the skill was the sole determinant in a competition like that?

Show me one competitive tennis player who would arrogantly declare "I'm going to use this crappy old wooden racket with animal intestine strings" over something more modern and effective.

 

You know why they'd switch? Because they aren't so caught up in their own pride that they think they're somehow better by refusing to use better tools.

 

Again, you completely completely miss my point. Addons give some people carbon-nanofiber rackets; others who don't want to use these things on ethical or technical grounds are left to be mocked for their wooden rackets by the elite.

 

What of the person with an old wooden racket who defeats the carbon nano-racket-wielding competitor? Impressive, no? Not likely, of course.. but it's happened (in terms of default-ui using healers, for instance, managing through sheer skill and situational awareness to outheal clique-casting divas..)

 

You missed the point where I said I was for upping the default UI - in other words, make sure EVERYBODY has carbon nano-fiber rackets.

 

Who'd win, the baseball player from the 1920s or the souped up steroid junkie of the 2000s? How could you be sure it was all in the training?

 

What you don't get is...steroids are considered unacceptable because of their side effects, not because of the performance enhancement aspects.

 

The side effects of steroids aren't the point. The point is that players who decide to play the game ethically are penalized. It's a bit like talking about exploits in wow - weeeellll, the top guilds say, everybody does it, so we're just trying to level the playing field. Why should we be disciplined?

 

Why should they? Cuz they cheated. Screw them. Let honest people have a shot too.

 

When you have one player playing with the default UI, and the second player playing with addons that suggest his next spell cast, that tell him without him having to pay attention that his CC has broken, and that the boss is about to do X move in 3 seconds, so he should move to a specific spot.. well. What's winning the encounter? The player or the addon?

 

And your particular example of an addon is representative of the sum totality of what people want? NO, it is not.

 

Figure out what people want, then understand why your examples are just strawmen.

 

Your rebuttals are strawmen. Every thing I listed in my example addon package has been done by addons in wow. There are cc-minder addons, ability use suggestion addons such as bad kitty that's used by feral druids, and of course the ubiquitous DBM, which tells folks exactly what a boss is going to do WHEN.

 

In fact, DBM is considered requisite for raiding in wow. CC-minder addons are requisite for high-end PvP. Bad kitty is virtually the only way to play feral druid dps without getting carpal tunnel syndrome and making your eyes bleed monitoring your DOT-MONITORING addon.

The addon affects things so much that boss fights have gotten rediculously complicated merely in an attempt to offset their effects. To me, that's detrimental. To me, that virtually fosters.. nay, midwives the so-called casual/hardcore divide.

 

The casual/hardcore divide was a lot worse before addons.

 

I said addons midwives the divide. That means no more and no less than 'assists significantly in it's birth'. And it does; every single day DPS meters are used by people running horribly outdated content where dps shouldn't matter so much, just to rat out 'weaklings' with great soulless efficiency. Every day, raid fights are defeated by guilds who barely have a clue what's going on - because they watched youtube videos and downloaded custom addons (again, DBM) that assist them in the fight - made by other people who actually have put in the pain and effort to clear the content legit.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Lheim

[Mankub]

The UI definitely needs some help. Everyone has different preferences and goals while they play, why not allow them to set their UI up for maximum enjoyment of the game.

 

Biggest add-on on my wishlist is something that makes the AH usable, my goodness that thing is awful. I would also like to be able to move my UI around freely and scale it.

[Pscyclone]

If you feel like that then just don't use addons and let people who do want to use them, use them. Just because it's available doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

That statement sure sounds good on the surface since everyone gets what they want, but it does not address the point of the issue.

 

The point of the issue is that user-created tools affects game play, like it or not, for every player. And, like it or not, those 'tools' affect game development. Bioware's decision is not one about player choice this time; it is about how it wants to present the game to, and preserve the gaming experience for, its entire subscription base. Too, it must decide whether or not it wants to bring third-party 'tools' into every development discussion.

 

WoW started to lose its shine for me years ago when Blizzard admitted that they were designing content around user-defined tools. Many players do not want their game content to force them to use a third-party tool in order to participate.

 

But, for every one posting on this forum (including me) there are legions of folk that don't post - and those legions bought just as much right to an enjoyable gaming experience as the vocal minority on these boards. Bioware will consider them in its decision.

[Somondre]

The UI, I find it very hard indeed to see how long any buffs, debuffs, hots have left to go because they are so tiny. The only way to see is if you mouse over it. Maybe have them a bit bigger or have a number on them?

 

For now it doesn't matter (level 27 agent) but come raid time when I have to go hot crazy I can imagine how many times I will seriously over heal everyone.

[ironix]

This boils down to making the game easier. The game should not need macros or add-ons to make it easier. It should just be scaled properly. I actually think the game is scaled properly and people mostly want the macros to avoid the work/difficulty intended. Any problem with the game being improperly scaled should be fixed by BioWare.

 

So, you're basically saying us healers should be happy and content with constantly staring at the bottom of the screen in order to keep our parties alive?

[Beemerchick]

This argument is tired. Eventually some geek with too much time between Thesis papers will math out the "best" DPS spec for each class and the best classes for DPS overall. What you're saying is let people play some half baked spec and use the skills they find "fun" so the rest of the group can carry them.

 

No. What he is saying is people can learn to play their class without having to know every point down to the nth degree. I find it funny that people think those who copy other people's builds are the best at playing a class. The ones who are the best are the ones who know what their class does because they figured it out for themselves. They know what their powers do and when to use them, rather than just spamming 2339843211.

[playball]

Mods just make everything easy mode, its practically cheating, is the game too hard the way it is or are you just lazy?

[Zulfur]

I disagree about addons and macro, and prefer they are not added. We should all play with the same tools. Sure, the tools should be customizable, but we should not be able to create our own tools. People will exploit any opening they are given. So I would prefer BW keeps control over the whole UI, and just allows us to customize.

 

I agree! Learn to play the game instead of macroing your way through. You can learn to actually heal instead of your WOW click heal mods. Damage logs, mods, addins, all make WOW like watching a game movie and once in a while you click something to see the next part.

 

They have always said they would not allow mods. I agree that the UI needs to be able to be moved and resized.

 

Bioware does not want the risk of introducing viruses or keyloggers into the game either. Bliz spends tons of money having to support people that get their accounts hacked and want their stuff baack because they downloaded something. This will aloow them to actually work on the game!

[Belpheghor]

UI scaling is BADLY needed and movable windows I can resize, etc....until I get these, I ain't playing.

[KorenChan]

UI scaling is BADLY needed and movable windows I can resize, etc.....

 

 

I could careless for mods but I would like ^

[Airinya]

People not wanting add-ons, are generally the people that were refused from raids and stuff cause their DPS was too low .

 

To be honest, Add-ons should be in, maybe just make it so you can only see it yourself, but i'd like to see my dps so i know how to improve, or see my threat as tank. And especially customizable UI stuff, changing healthbars/target bars, target of target, buff displays, the general UI stuff should be customizable.

 

Macros or stuff like deadly boss mods i do not care about.

 

This is incredibly generalizing and inaccurate. I raided in WoW through Wrath and I also don't like the use of addons (though I used them in WoW). The problem with addons is that game content begins to be built around the game with addons rather than just the base game. Could you imagine going into a 25 man raid without using Healbot (or a comparable addon) in WoW? It would be a nightmare. They've tailored raid content in such a way that is requires an addon to be able to raid. People should be able to fully engage in the game without addons. When you start to build your game to addons there is a problem.

[Runigan]

Why they did not focus on the UI as much as possible is beyond me. If you are going to launch a game why would you not make it as polished as possible? The world has a DECADE of MMOs to learn from and yet some companies refuse to do so.

 

-UI needs to be customizable....as in movable.

-I and I'm sure many others would like to have more then 2 actions bars. I would rather have 4 bars with 5 buttons then 2 with 10.

-Why can I only track one thing at a time on the Map?

-No target of target. Glad I'm not playin a tank or healer.

-Only 2 windows available at a time....wow. smash the various window hotkeys and its like watching a bad slideshow.

-Guild window UI needs to be completely redone along with allowing ranks to actually see what permissions they actually have.

 

Then of course you have other things like:

-No Guild banks. der.... why would you not have this? This is NOT HARD to do.

-Generic pvp where you make everyone lvl 50 but gear/skills stay at your current lvl so if you are lvl 12 fighting lvl 25s you just get *****.

-1minute minimum to craft an item. wow, I hope you don't want those things right away...and forget crafting actual orders. Sure you can have your stuff....2 hours from now.

 

 

Overall this game wins out in Two aspects over the Star Wars Galaxies. Story and Instances. Everything else from crafting, to combat, to UI, to Player Cities, to Housing, to Arranging your house/guildhall, to being able to send in-game messages(like email) from ANYWHERE on your holo and just plain Awesome political drama....SWG wins hands down. That **** was 2003 and that game LAUNCHED with it. gg, BW/EA

[Pestylence]

Without dps meters the raiding exp in this game is Gunna suck. How are you going to know if half your group is just spamming one button.. I keep hearing that eternity vault HC is suppose to "be as hard as wow heroics" imagine how crap that is going to be without the ability to min max your character and your group..

[Sicknss]

The point of the issue is that user-created tools affects game play, like it or not, for every player. And, like it or not, those 'tools' affect game development.

 

Even being a fan of mods myself I can agree with this statement. Generally speaking, everything I've ever done with a macro or mod has been done in an attempt to improve the default UI.

 

Definitely a tough balance though... develop content for players based on 3rd party mods or develop the default UI to the point almost no one would feel it could be improved? Which is more difficult/costly/time-consuming?

[Matte_Black]

So, you're basically saying us healers should be happy and content with constantly staring at the bottom of the screen in order to keep our parties alive?

 

No, you just did.

[CyberData]

Macros are for lazy gamers. Games should NOT play themselves.

 

I agree with the UI. I needs to be scaleable for one. The ONLY thing I can move is the chat box. But can't place it anywhere else where it's not overlapped by something.

 

I'd like to see a DPS/Heal/DMG Taken meter added.

[Amonet]

there is a combat log and dps meter in the game already. Except it only works in warzones! At the end of the match if you mouse over everyone's total damage done it shows you their dps, their biggest crit etc. Pretty neat.

[thegreatheed]

Macros are for lazy gamers. Games should NOT play themselves.

This argument is old and out-dated. There hasn't been a macro system in a major MMO that allows automation in years.

 

NEITHER IS ANYONE ASKING FOR AUTOMATION.

 

You are not arguing the topic at hand if you say, 'Games should NOT play themselves'. Noone is asking for that. That is a perfect example of a logical fault in presenting an argument called a strawman. IE, that opinion is not constructive or helpful.

 

Here's the types of macros I want.

 

Toggle between stances. (will help with limited action bar space)

/cast @focus so I can focus the tank, heal him, and target the boss for utility/dps.

 

These don't provide any sort of automation, and are in no way a sign of a lazy gamer.

[zootzoot]

No. What he is saying is people can learn to play their class without having to know every point down to the nth degree. I find it funny that people think those who copy other people's builds are the best at playing a class. The ones who are the best are the ones who know what their class does because they figured it out for themselves. They know what their powers do and when to use them, rather than just spamming 2339843211.

 

Uhhh that's not what he was saying at all. He was referring to a damage meter in relation to different specs. Letting people "play the way they want" translates to let me play any gimp spec and using any dumb rotation because it's fun. By saying he doesn't want meters he's admitting people will play goofy RP specs but don't want to be called out for it.

 

If you're so sure you're going to be a pro damage meters shouldn't matter to you.

[Raji]

Macros are for lazy gamers. Games should NOT play themselves.

 

I dunno, making macros is also a form of playing games. I also enjoy my Recklessness->Chain Lightning->Crushing Darkness->Lightning Strike spam macro for Wrath procs (Naga Software). For one, I already use slots 1-6 (which is my range for fast finger presses) on both bottom bars and the right side bar filled (bound to CTRL/SHIFT+# or just #) Not having to constantly check the right bar to manage CL and CD cooldown timers is incredibly helpful. Considering how much else is going on in the rotation (Is Affliction up? Lightning Barrage Proc? Wrath Proc? Shock Cooldown? ect ect) I don't think it's *that* lazy to have a macro manage some things.

 

Granted I wouldn't really need the macro if I could put all bars on the bottom of the screen and re-size them with UI mods. I'd just be able to see what spells are on cooldown with a quick glance in a general area. What I wouldn't want to see are macros that queue up abilities to happen instantly after a proc I think that's where macros offically cross the line.

[CyberData]

This argument is old and out-dated. There hasn't been a macro system in a major MMO that allows automation in years.

 

NEITHER IS ANYONE ASKING FOR AUTOMATION.

 

You are not arguing the topic at hand if you say, 'Games should NOT play themselves'. Noone is asking for that. That is a perfect example of a logical fault in presenting an argument called a strawman. IE, that opinion is not constructive or helpful.

 

Here's the types of macros I want.

 

Toggle between stances. (will help with limited action bar space)

/cast @focus so I can focus the tank, heal him, and target the boss for utility/dps.

 

These don't provide any sort of automation, and are in no way a sign of a lazy gamer.

 

Like I said, LAZY.

 

Select the tank, heal him.

 

Target the boss....DPS.

 

I can do it.

 

I've BEEN doing it.

 

So can you.

 

We don't NEED macros. We need players to play the game and not create a culture of dependance on mods/macros in order to be viable.

 

No macros = everyone on the same playing field.

[Raji]

No macros = everyone on the same playing field.

 

You know people have access to macros through the use of products like http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/mouse right?

Edited December 19, 2011 by Raji

[BergieHealer]

I agree on the no macros. I have been playing a healer in mmo's for 20 years now and I have never used, nor will I ever use macro's to target someone and then cast a spell. Use the F keys and the number keys. That was how the game was designed. If you don't like it, then go back to WOW and all the macros and mods to do almost everything for you.

 

I do agree that the UI needs to be changed and allow it to be moved and sized to player needs/wants. But please don't add the crap macros/mods and make this game like most of the other mmo's out there.

[Couac]

Other issues are the fact you can't turn off the blah blah blah cut scenes and just get your mission in a couple of clicks, instead you have to hit space bar 20 times.

 

It seems this game really isn't for you.