JUGGS: Enraged Defense - love it or hate it?

[unicornfive]

As a vengance juggernaut i am starting to like this ability alot.

 

A talent in the vengance tree adds further 15% damage reduction when Enraged defense is up.

 

Paired with the little heal it gives this is a great defensive cooldown.

 

It uses alot of rage yes, but it is a choice you make. I usually pop this together with enrage to ensure that i wont run out of rage to dps aswell and so far it is working really great.

 

I first used it at the point of where i was close to dying but i think that is not the place where this ability really shines. When i start a new encounter vs someone else, i use it now at the beginning of the fight and save Saber ward to the end of the fight.

The reduced dmg from the start of the fight often leaves me at an advantage and i have surprised many so far with being a much tougher target to kill than first anticipated.

 

So i am fine with it.

 

A rage Juggernaut though, i wouldnt want to use it i that much i think as it can end up using alot of rage vs little benefit.

 

Why use even bother having it at action bars as rage?

You have arround 20% permanent dmg reduction from soresu.

After 1.2 Shii-cho only gives 3% dmg benefit....It became a useless form.

Edited April 16, 2012 by unicornfive

[Manashi]

As a vigilance PvP guardian I've been really disapointed by this ability.

 

Rage cost is way to high. An upfront cost of 4 rage and 1 rage per tick is huge.

As long as I don't get hit every second, I can manage to use my damaging abilities almost normally if I use Enrage. In which case the real value of Enraged Defense (45s cooldown) is tied to Enrage which as a longer cooldown (1 min cooldown). Besides, I found that the main use for Enrage is to ease stance dancing if I need to go soresu. Can't use it for both...

If I get hit every second, my damage output is going to be severly lowered, even if If I use Enrage.

It is probably the most expensive heal in the game. By far.

 

As a vigilance specced guardian, I have both the heal and the damage reduction of 15%.

Quite frankly, the heal is very weak. I've used the new combat log over the course of a few war zone and the result is quite sad. The heal itself is not that strong in the first place, and with the Trauma debuff, it feels very underwhelming.

On the other hand, the damage reduction of 15% is quite good.

 

In the end, I use this ability mostly when stunned, to increase my mitigation with the +15% damage reduction. That's it. Truth is, the cost is way to high for the general benefit of this ability.

I don't feel I gained much survavibility with 1.2 patch. While I'm pretty happy with my damage output, I still believe we need some help in the survavibility department.

 

What needs to be changed :

• Remove the rage consumption with each tick. The upfront cost of 4 rage is fine.
  
• The heal shouldn't be affected by the trauma debuff or it should be increased accordingly (so It will be a 3% heal with the debuff up)
  

[Ezion]

I've tried it a bit in PvE and it works ok if you arent getting hit constanly. As others have said, the 1 rage cost every time you are hit really needs to go. They could also take the threat drop every time you're hit off it for all I care, the initial moderate threat drop is fine.

 

The heal could be kept to justify it's initial 4 rage cost compared to other classes free threat reduction cooldowns. Most of the time you wont even get the full heal anyway unless you are being focused on.

[Teioh_White]

Yeah, I've only found a use for it while carrying the Huttball, where putting me up to 67% DR is pretty nice, with the heals just being an added bonus. To actually try and use it a CD while fighting is just pretty bad, as it just takes way too much outta my already stressed rage bar.

[Noth]

This man knows what hes talking about.

 

Enraged defense is always up since it has such a short CD for a survivability skill. I usually have this and endure pain off cooldown at the same time. Also, im vengence and i have it talented to reduce damage by 15%. And did i mention you can use it while stunned? It surely helps alot, instead of just getting killed. Given we dont have any stuns per se and every other class seems to have them, this is an incredible counter to keep you on the game.

 

As far as rage goes i usually have the skill that gives me 6 rage rdy for it. Also a 1m cooldown only.

 

It is a very good ability. Such that i wouldnt even mind if it took a nerf to a 1m cooldown.

Just dont touch my ravage damage. Its essential that it stays like this since the vengence spec is built around it.

 

So, if you nerf marauders, nerf ONLY marauders. Dont break juggernauts as a side effect. That really worries me alot.

 

So in essence it's only worth it to use with your other cooldowns... That is a poor cooldown. You shouldn't have to pop an additional cooldown to make the heal worth the rage or an additional cooldown to fuel it. It is absolutely horrid design.

[JamieKirby]

When i saw the post about them working on the juggernaut and guardian survivability, i was happy and smiling and then they bring us this crap, sorry, but i would prefer a passive buff thats always on, instead of yet another button to press.

 

When it comes to guardians and juggernauts, the downtime that they have with any other companion besides their healing one is just too damn often, i can understand with elites, but normals and strongs? no, the other classes only have downtime, a minor downtime i might add when facing elites.

 

This ability that lasts a pitiful 10 seconds with a over the top 45sec cooldown, i would have expected a FAR higher heal % then a mere 3%, i mean Ravage is on a 30sec cooldown and its the highest damage ability we have, so i am thinking they need to lower the cooldown quite abit or up the healing done to match the cooldown.

 

Overall, i would prefer a passive survivability buff that gives us a parry/deflection rating of 25% total strength (BEFORE buffs and stims) To me that would be a good buff for survivability when solo'ing, since when in groups, its not much of an issue, unless the tank or healer aren't doing their job.

[WarSiren]

Honestly testing this ability, it's utter poodoo.

 

The only 2 uses I can find for it, and this is strictly because I am Vengeance, is popping while stunned only if my CD Breaker is on CD to get the extra 15% damage and the crappy little heals, and right clicking the buff off as soon as the stun is done so it doesn't eat anymore rage.

 

Or Popping it while carrying the Huttball.

 

I really wanted this ability to be good I really really did, but for the amount it heals for and the general cost, it's a situational CD at best, and that's being nice.

Edited April 18, 2012 by WarSiren

[Soljin]

I use the ability on cooldown.....to survive Mosh pits or trains.... minus that the 1 rage per second cost needs to go....the ability is way over the top on cost. Basically you cant keep it up in any stance but Vengeance. If the ability is so costly you cant keep it up for the duration with out blowing an additional ability...it was clearly not designed properly. Make it cost 5 rage if your dead set on making the ability costly....but remove the rage per second/hit ENTIRELY! Edited April 18, 2012 by Soljin

[Terimac]

i got no clue if it's good or not, but when i have the ball i pop everything and i mean everything and just jump and run like crazy, but i like the 15% damage reduction that comes if you are vengance specced

[ChickChaser]

The risk versus reward is not in sync, for it to drain that much rage it should heal way more, your rage bar goes from full to zero in a few seconds, and it heals for like 300-400 hp per proc USLESS. For it to be so expensive it should heal for atleast 1000-2000 per proc, or if it stays the same it has to cost alot less or last a bit longer.

[Vember]

Very underwhelming ability. Far too expensive to use, ends up completely killing your damage output for extremely crappy heals.

[Andodx]

Enraged Defense is better than no Aggro reduce. It saved my *** from getting Aggro & surviving a few Times in Operations. So I don't hate it.

 

With more Heal, it would be a more viable option in Battlegrounds though.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Andodx
typo

[MisterNuby]

As veng juggernaut I just love enraged defense, the heal is pretty much useless but the 20% dmg reduce + "heal" is a nice combo. In 1v1 or 1v2 situations I pop it right at the start after saber throw while I charge. With the six rage from the opening and six rage from enrage you can start and play your normal rotation without running out of rage.

Well this is for PvP but works just fine in PvE as veng juggernaut to lose aggro or as coolddown in the ae dmg.

As Tank it's useless of course and i think rage juggernauts just have not enough rage (lol) to use it in pve and pvp.

[Lacedemon]

Used it both Rage spec'd and Vengeance spec'd in PvP and PvE and I gotta say as Rage its uttler crap, drains your rage bar faster than you can fill it and you end up dying because you can burst to kill them (whereas if you haddn't pop'd it you would of done). As Vengeance its great, can pretty much pop it and go business as normal the rage gen as Vengeance is fantastic to the point you don't notice it draining your bar. The heal is still pitiful but the extra mitigation the talent provides makes it really really good for that last 10 yards in Huttball or when your left solo at a node and need to hold out as long as you can before help arrives.

 

In PvE the aggro drop has saved my skin a few times it acts as a little top off to keep you high enough so the healers can worry on the people who really need the healing

[Anarachis]

31/7/2 Jugg with my 2 cents on Enraged defense.

 

I actually kinda like it. In PvP I have taken to popping it followed by Enrage. It keeps me going long enough to get the job done and since When I get hit I generate Rage, It's not too bad on the cost and If used right doesnt affect my Rotation too badly.

 

I have used it in PVE while tanking the Live Event World Boss (the adds can interrupt healers), It gave my healers breathing room, and I didn't drop aggro since I simply Taunted after popping it and hit a Crushing blow and boom, solid aggro.

 

Would I prefer a straight self heal like a PT? Of course. Would I prefer it to heal for more? Of course. Would I rather it not cost rage apart from initial application? Of course. But as it is in an Immortal spec, it's not to bad.

[Sookster]

It does very little for an immortal, I popped it every chance I could while tanking in HM's and EV. I spec'd to vengeance and found that it's much more useful since it can reduce damage taken by 15% (my armor goes from 32% to 47% while active in shien stance) although not quite as good as pre-1.2 intercede's 20% damage reduction self buff. Edited April 18, 2012 by Sookster

[lordofdamornin]

Fantastic as vengeance and immortal dps, horrible for everything else.

 

So far, I'm in this boat.

 

Since I solo queue primarily...this ability has replaced my WZ medpack usage almost entirely.

 

Almost.

 

Riôt

[JamieKirby]

I think they should have just given the juggernaut what the marauder has, that lowers the damage taken by 20% for 15secs with a 30secs cooldown, much more preferrable then the crap we got.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I like it, but I feel it stops to early... anyone else notice that?

[Chunkie]

I like it, and use it frequently. I think those that don't see the value in it aren't understanding it's real use. It's not an 'uh oh' emergency save ability. It's an ability on a 45 sec timer. When i pop the AOE taunt, i pop that. It's an ability on a 45sec timer that helps with survivability with group encounters, not a heal or emergency save ability.

 

I do agree the initial cost is a bit high. Dropping it down to 2 i think would be good.

[Sarano]

immortal spec tank here.

 

for me - completely. useless. ability. I get that its probably designed more for dps juggs. But as a tank it ***** my rage bar AND lowers my hate? No thanks.

 

There should be a high-tier ability in the Immortal tree that makes its ADD 1 rage and hate each time you're hit, instead of reducing rage & hate. (wouldnt be OP with the 4 rage cost)

Also, i think 3% is a bit low for the heal personally.

 

L-M-F-A-O So just FYI.. It heals based on your maximum HP, operative word here being -maximum-. This means that if you pop endure pain / rakata medpac or whichever else you have to increase your maximum help temporarily, + timed with some of your defensive cooldowns you can actually profit a bigger health gain from you activate it till when it wears off depending on what you're doing. I admit I don't know if you're talking PvE or PvP here. But PvP-wise this ability is epic, I love it, simply love it. There's 1 thing to take into consideration when you use it aswell, as Immortal first of - YOU ARE NOT A DPS. Your pressure is irrelevant if you're going to die, your interrupts require almost no rage whatsoever so It's really pointless to claim the ability is useless and a bigger waste than a profit when it seems that noone gets the concept of it. It's a really nice ability, you just have to understand when to use it. (Again I'd like to remind this is a PvP-PoV) - As a dps juggernaut, quite frankly you won't have time to use it, and the rage cost is slightly too high considering it doesn't heal for enough HOWEVER, as Immortal you have the necessary abilities and stats to make it profit you. Anyone who makes a claim that this ability sucks and keeps whining over it will get nowhere, because It's an amazing ability in PvP. You just need to learn how to use it, that's pretty much it.

[Comfterbilly]

Further review: yeah - by the time your health is low enough to need it its not going to heal you enough to keep you from dying (since you're probly being focused); therefore when it would really help is in the first part of a fight, but then its useless because your rage is emptied (so you probably lose more health from being gimped than you would if you didn't pop it).

 

I have had rare moments, usually 1v1, where it has helped but all in all I think enraged defense is way too sporadic to ever really use.

 

Opinion so far: the initial rage cost is enough; the rage ticks per damage is way too much.

 

Other: in fact I am pretty sure the skill is broken - taking damage is supposed to spend one rage per second; I have had fights where just on the defensive getting once has eaten three rage. Now that I think of it, that may be the problem. Anybody else notice enraged defense spending more than one rage tick per hit?

Edited April 20, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[Dasgruberg]

Im running http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrGzkzZfMRMrhdzM.1 as a valor 75, got 2 war hero pieces rest BM and full DPS gear. And enraged defense + saber ward + invincible makes me a power machine! Especially with a healer. Enraged defense is the best thing that happened to us apart from the talent realignments.

 

http://imgur.com/zh9Es

[Comfterbilly]

Im running http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrGzkzZfMRMrhdzM.1 as a valor 75, got 2 war hero pieces rest BM and full DPS gear. And enraged defense + saber ward + invincible makes me a power machine! Especially with a healer. Enraged defense is the best thing that happened to us apart from the talent realignments.

 

http://imgur.com/zh9Es

 

Being that you keep it in your regular rotation, when is the best time to use it in your opinion?

[Dasgruberg]

Being that you keep it in your regular rotation, when is the best time to use it in your opinion?

 

I combine it with invincible OR saber ward, then pop the other CD after that. But usually use it with enrage for more rage when rest are on cooldown. its 15% extra dmg reduced talented. Its ace. And 45 sec cd makes it a brilliant tool.