Dissey Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 This is so wrong, as a gunslinger i cant even hit tanks, and if i do i hit like 60% less than i would, tanking is still strong if not too strong, L2P seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extenzz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Its not worth it to tank in PvP. DPS > All. As usual, most of the complaining is an L2P issue. PvP in this game is objective-based, not 1v1 or arena style. Tank stats and tank utility bring a lot to a team. There are plenty of situations where survivability > DPS (holding down a node till your team supports you, etc). Regardless of the mechanics for shielding attacks, increased defense, shield and absorption increases overall survivability. Not saying full tank gear + full tank skills is the best way to go for PvP, but blanket statements about tanking not being viable in PvP are simply ignorant. I'll keep laughing while enjoying a 75%+ winning percentage in every WZ I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 As usual, most of the complaining is an L2P issue. PvP in this game is objective-based, not 1v1 or arena style. Tank stats and tank utility bring a lot to a team. There are plenty of situations where survivability > DPS (holding down a node till your team supports you, etc). Regardless of the mechanics for shielding attacks, increased defense, shield and absorption increases overall survivability. Not saying full tank gear + full tank skills is the best way to go for PvP, but blanket statements about tanking not being viable in PvP are simply ignorant. I'll keep laughing while enjoying a 75%+ winning percentage in every WZ I play. Your post is full of fail. There is no tanking post 1.2 and you are virtually useless in huttball. You are winning because the imps on your server are gimped or the force users on your team are really good and carrying your butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extenzz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Your post is full of fail. There is no tanking post 1.2 and you are virtually useless in huttball. You are winning because the imps on your server are gimped or the force users on your team are really good and carrying your butt. Explain how there is no tanking post 1.2 and I'll be happy to prove that in fact you, sir, are full of fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiken Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) This is so wrong, as a gunslinger i cant even hit tanks, and if i do i hit like 60% less than i would, tanking is still strong if not too strong, L2P seriously ok so as a sniper you're using pure white damage hits... and those tanks are deflecting a majority of your attacks by stacking defenses upwars of 30%... so you have what, -25% or so accuracy mods? Didnt know they made mods with negative accuracy... Perhaps you should re-itemize to hit 110 or so accuracy and then you'll see a ~10% miss rate on full specced tanks (who btw will do crap damage if they ever do get on you). And with your self buff and gear you've got 40%+ Crit, dont even make me laugh by saying they are shielding your attacks. Yay white damage -_- You hit them for less because of armor mitigation only, the same mitigation any one in heavy armor or tank stance assassin/shadow has. Tanks get the same mitigation regardless of wearing their DPS gear or Tank gear, leaving little incentive to actually be a tank in PVP. So you get power/surge/expertise modded Tankassins with 150k protection and 300k damage, because why be real tank when you only gimp yourself for doing so, now with the expertise damage reduction scaling worse than the damage output, even moreso. Edited April 13, 2012 by Guiken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendari Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 A few types of people posting in this thread: 1. Tanks who know how to actually tank (ie: not running around in DPS gear 'pwning' people) who realize that the spec took a huge nerf this patch. 2. Tanks who are being carried by guildmates / pocket healers (or at least a well organized PvP squad), so they think they are invincible and therefore are totally oblivious to the change (or just too full of themselves to admit the truth). 3. People who don't even play tanks and are commenting on something they know absolutely nothing about. I'll let everyone figure out which one they are. In my opinion, they need to change how shield rating works so that all damage types can be shielded and absorbed, then there might actually be some benefit to wearing tank gear as a tank, other than surviving for an extra 2 seconds from the added endurance. Before 1.2, you could go into a warzone in full tank PvE gear and have way better survivability than you can now with full BM tank gear. That's not just some small balance tweak... that changes the whole way the game is played, and makes tanking in PvP all but pointless unless you are being carried by a solid team (and the fact is, they could probably do better with a DPS or hybrid healer in your spot now anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obie_Wan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Here's an alternate solution. How about we convert most of the yellow damage back into white damage instead? We have way too many attacks that are in categories where a tank's defensive stats don't affect. If they don't want to change tanks' defense stats to work more against other damage for fear of throwing off PVE, then at least change the players' attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissey Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ok so as a sniper you're using pure white damage hits... and those tanks are deflecting a majority of your attacks by stacking defenses upwars of 30%... so you have what, -25% or so accuracy mods? Didnt know they made mods with negative accuracy... Perhaps you should re-itemize to hit 110 or so accuracy and then you'll see a ~10% miss rate on full specced tanks (who btw will do crap damage if they ever do get on you). And with your self buff and gear you've got 40%+ Crit, dont even make me laugh by saying they are shielding your attacks. Yay white damage -_- You hit them for less because of armor mitigation only, the same mitigation any one in heavy armor or tank stance assassin/shadow has. Tanks get the same mitigation regardless of wearing their DPS gear or Tank gear, leaving little incentive to actually be a tank in PVP. So you get power/surge/expertise modded Tankassins with 150k protection and 300k damage, because why be real tank when you only gimp yourself for doing so, now with the expertise damage reduction scaling worse than the damage output, even moreso. o Rlly? offcourse i got 114% accuracy, while they deflect so many of my attacks, thats enought to make me realise, Tanks are strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Paddy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Will you stop with this dramatic "Tanking is dead" nonsense. Tanking is still very viable and even more necessary now due to the healing nerfs. More than ever good tanks who know how to use their guard and put out their de-taunts (very effective in pvp) are needed. Tank characters can still take massive amounts of damage before dying compared to other classes. It will take a playstyle adjust for sure (by both players and their teams)but can still be done. Yes i agree that defensive stats in this game are not been made as useful as they should but please stop this "the sky is failing" crap. The mechanics pre patch allowed some classes to run around almost immortal with very little ability, it needed to be toned down. Edited April 13, 2012 by Darth_Paddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) basically they've made it so: damage bonus from expertise went up a lot damage reduction from expertise didn't go up as much as damage bonus Wrong. Do the math. They cancel each other perfectly. Edited April 13, 2012 by flem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Wrong. Do the math. They cancel each other perfectly. Some people probably believe +100% damage done cancels out -100% damage taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennvyx Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Heh, sure buddy. I love tanking in PvP and last to die while defending my doors. By that time my teammates are back to re-defend. (Then I die /sadface) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashoverridex Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 What really messes up this way of mitigating DMG are a few ridiculously OP skillpoints of, let's say focus-specced Knights, which makes their totally OP Sweeps even more OP by letting them crit for 100%. You can't really reward a crit with both surge AND not being able to get avoided/shielded if you're gonna have skills like that in the game and still let tanks be somewhat useful. sweep is a forced based attack so it will go through defense and shield chance anyway regardless if it crits or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vthemonster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So I guess I should start looking at the damage armor instead of that stupid Tanking gear. I am so annoyed by the fact that their are supposed to be huge nerfs etc. But my tank with tank armor still gets ***** by Sorcs, and anyone doing high tech/force damage. I never understood why we need to have 3 stats defense, shield, and absorbtion that all reduce the same crappy attacks that dont do anything. On top of that all the Tanking gear has accuracy on it which I still fail to see why I would want that over say more defense etc. I cant kill anybody as it is why do I need more accuracy! SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vthemonster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Here's an alternate solution. How about we convert most of the yellow damage back into white damage instead? We have way too many attacks that are in categories where a tank's defensive stats don't affect. If they don't want to change tanks' defense stats to work more against other damage for fear of throwing off PVE, then at least change the players' attacks. I had just thought this must be the reason I cant block force/tech abilities, because of PvE. That sucks, here I am believing Bioware is doing the right thing by me and somehow my gear is balanced with FULL tanking. But alas it makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vthemonster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I had just thought this must be the reason I cant block force/tech abilities, because of PvE. That sucks, here I am believing Bioware is doing the right thing by me and somehow my gear is balanced with FULL tanking. But alas it makes sense now. Even using armor buffs barely do anything to stop force/tech IMO. Not to mention we are the slowest in the game. All I do when I get the ball in huttball is hope all the big damage dealers run out of force etc. and I get good heals before they kill me in 15 secs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonFinklestein Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I agree that tanking in PvP is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHotter Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Personally I think that there should be types of attacks that are good against certain tanks and the DPS classes should have to spec into that kind of attack. Half the attacks ignoring armor and/or shields makes tanking in PvP less tanky. I think it would be fine if tanks were weak vs a class that had a good AC debuff. Similar to the way two DPS ACs have a healing debuff to make them feared by healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almghty_gir Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Wrong. Do the math. They cancel each other perfectly. i think you may want to take another look at your tooltip matey. damage bonus and damage reduction show two different values for the same amount of expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 i think you may want to take another look at your tooltip matey. damage bonus and damage reduction show two different values for the same amount of expertise. this is true, but the difference is so low that i does not give an explenation for the current situation. additionally this squishiness nearly all are currently feeling apply also to scenarios without competense at all, like the <50 bracket or even PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Is this true? Warhammer PvP was awesome and even SWtOR has lots of potential, maybe 1.2. was just a fluke... I really hope so.... Why did you quit warhammer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundake Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) As someone who has leveled their vanguard through the sub 50 bracket, the damage difference is quite noticeable. I take a significant amount more damage than I used to, no expertise involved. Try playing in the 1-49 bracket, you'll feel it there too. Tanking feels pointless when I can spec Assault and blow someone up in a matter of 5-7 gcds. Edited April 14, 2012 by Dundake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 As someone who has leveled their vanguard through the sub 50 bracket, the damage difference is quite noticeable. It has come to the point that it doesnt make any sense to bring in a tank when I can spec Assault and blow someone up in seconds. but you can't. assault has been overnerfed and tactics is broken,. because pulse generator is not working at all. beside of this, iron fistbuilds still give you better ssurvivability than otherr. wanna see how it currently feels playing assault in this pvp? you won't even have the seconds to blow anything up if your nick name is known to the enemy to focus on. i am. i currently die in a few seconds with my iron fist build because i always am one of the guys being focused. this may change now es i am no longer a threat i used to be, at least not as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundake Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The damage I can put out as assault far exceeds than the ironfist spec. We both that. So if you last a second or two more, what's the point of gimping your dps? As a tank I don't expect to top damage meters, but I feel like I should be able to take a beating. Pre 1.2 it felt right, I could still go down but not this easily. In the end this game is supposed to be about having fun and enjoying it, warzones honestly feel like a gibfest now. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felirx Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I for one totally enjoy dying in 4 globals against marauders, when they take 30s+ to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts