The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[LemmingLeader]

blaming the system for the players choices is just childish.

 

If the system makes sticking around and fighting it out in a losing situation pointless, why should one waste their valuable time?

 

When 1.2 went into effect and I noticed people dropping when we were losing, I cursed them for not sticking around. To make the fight at least "respectable." But when the match ended, and despite being in the top 1/3 with medals and such, I saw the reason why.

 

Sticking around for a defeat in PvP is completely and utterly useless. Whereas people before would have kept on fighting, at least getting rewards for their performance, but now? You get squat.

 

I fully understood why people drop out like crazy now. Because it's actually wiser and more effective use of your personal time not to hang around for a defeat.

 

One of the worst PvP systems I've ever seen implemented on a live MMORPG. Absolutely horrible.

[Wintervoid]

The problem I have on my server, there is one very good PvP guild on the Imp Side that I am constantly encountering now. Out of about 15 games I have played today, 10 of the 15 were against that guild's premades. I was 0-10 vs them. 2 close games and 8 blowouts. The other 5 games I was 3-2.

 

I imagine that they are out in force because they are competitive people, and are looking to gear up for War Hero gear ASAP so the when ranked games do come, their guild is fully prepared. I am sure they also want to try out 1.2. I can respect that.

 

I dislike losing, but I can stomach it if I feel like I am progressing and learning. In these matches, I do not feel like I am learning much because I am getting vaporized as soon as I try and cast a heal. I am not progressing in gear because losing gets you nothing. I just see the gap between me and the premades I am facing getting wider and wider. After a month of this, I will be even less of a threat vs these premades then I am today. Even if my skill grows at the same rate as theirs, the gear gap will get wider.

 

I am one of the few that believes that skill trumps gear. They are winning because they are better players and better coordinated. Even if our side out geared them, I believe that they would win. I greatly respect their guild, even if I hate seeing them in WZs.

 

In principal, I agree that you should be rewarded for winning. In the real world, that is pretty much the way it is, except for sports. What I mean by this is that most professional sports leagues strive to balance the playing field by giving the best Draft picks to the worst team. There are salary caps in place in many sports to try and keep the talent level somewhat balanced. This is done because seeing one side obliterate the other side does not make for good, long term entertainment. People will watch for a while, but with no sense of real competition, people stop caring.

 

This is where I think the real problem lies. This system of winner take all wold be perfectly fine in a mostly balanced environment. An environment like the rated warzones that were supposed to be in 1.2. IMO, I think that this current system was designed to go hand and hand w/ Rated WZs, and when they got dropped at the last minute, no one thought about the reward system in an unbalanced environment. If I had to bet, I would bet that in the next few weeks that the current rewards system will be rolled back until Rated WZs come out.

 

I think that what most everyone wants is good, competitive WZs. The current system will lead to more imbalance in the future, not less.

 

I will continue to PvP, as I do enjoy PvPing and learning how to play better. I am tempted to start quitting losing WZs, farm medals instead of trying for the win and reduce how often I play. I won't, because that is not who I am, but I certainly will not blame others that make those choices.

[Alericus]

I think what has happened is simple. A lot of players were used to putting in very little effort while others worked their butts off and still getting rewards for it. Under this current system, that just wont work anymore. Further, if I am going to complete my daily I am not about to stay in a match where I walk in and the team is already losing and losing badly...no rewards at all so whats the incentive? So heres what is going to occur, players are going to finally realise they have to go all out and play smart. It should get better with ranked warzones because the well geared premades are going to go there..Whats that you say..Im not on a premade..I actually have a solution...the queues need to be split between joining solo or as a team and no fraking mixing the two!!!!. Having said that, long term the cross server tech will assist in improving balance on teams but I dont know when that will occur. Im not saying this can be fixed fast or quickly but I can see this will eventually get better. One final comment, it was once put to me they should segment the warzones based on valour not level and perhaps thats something to consider. Thats my input and am sure other players have some ideas which could and should be considered by Bioware as PvP should always be changed and improved.

[AKfourtyseven]

Ok, after a night of PvP on my new lvl 50 alt i might have to qualify my initial assessment of the rewards feature.

 

I still think the gap between a good performance on a losing team and simply being on the winning team is too great, but it is possible to lose and still get a semi-decent amount of rewards (my record is 55 with 13 medals on losing team).

 

Its just not very easy to pull this off.

Edited April 14, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Sinrei]

Just finished a NC with 8 medals on a losing team. Felt like myself and one other person were actually trying and came out with 16 comms, no money, 1500 valor.

 

I hate people leaving WZs but I can identify exactly why they are. There is NO point at all staying in a losing WZ if you have the chance of getting into a winning one or even a fresh WZ that could win. The punishment for loss is too much to seriously warrant any player staying.

 

Fix your **** BW ffs and fire your idiotic pvp team who clearly don't have a clue about it.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sinrei

[axelgrease]

blaming the system for the players choices is just childish.

 

its not the players fault. why stick around if your going to get creamed not only in the match but also get no rewards for 15-20 minutes of your time playing. This is like working for a boss who rides your butt constantly nit picking every little mistake and making you want to shoot the sob in charge. Honestly I think half of pvpers if they knew a bioware employee would break every bone in their body at this point. The servers went down for 10 and a half hours today I said thats great they'll fix the pvp screw up by staff and i'll be really happy with 1.2 then i find out nothing was done and i was almost ready to book a flight. They are in texas I've got friends in texas with guns and as much as i hate being an internet bully being on disability for mental issues and trying to do something i enjoy to take the stress off my life this game is really really pissing me off.

[Fallensbane]

The new PVP Medals system is completely broken.

 

I had 9 medals last match, and we lost, so i got 40 commendations...

 

If we had won, that would have been 100..

 

They punish the losing team too much, to an extent that there is NO point in hanging around if you know you're not going to win...

 

The winners get to gear up, leaving the losers behind, rinse, repeat.. Soon on ever server you're going to get one faction completely dominant in terms of gear..

 

The system is entirely broken.

 

 

You think it was bad with people leaving OPS < 1.2. It's going to be a lot worse now.

 

CORRECT THIS IMMEDIATELY, BIOWARE.

 

I agree they are a bit harsh, this is coming from someone who on average wins about 95% of my warzones, I have a solid guild who works as a team and we always try and properly rally any pugs to help us out. I can't imagine whats its like for those who just get the bad luck of being stomped 90% of the time. Its a system that promotes raqe quitting. A much better system would be to put a larger valor/comm reward based on OBJECTIVES... passing, scoring, disarming, planting, capturing etc and less emphasis on dmg/kills etc. You can still give the winning team a nice 25% or so bonus on top of everything else and it would be a system that actually rewards ALL who play well and just gives a solid bonus to the team who actually wins.

 

But um the rewards for winning are so effed up right now as well. If you speed win huttball you get around 100 coms and 3200 valor... you speed run voidstar you get around 2400 valor and 60 coms for doing it in the same amount of time... lol what? Amazing programming there.

 

Also, speed wins... Are awarding medals to only SOME of the speed winning team but not all, this happens a couple times a night.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Fallensbane

[Angelfeeties]

Winning and losing with 8+ medals should award the same amount of commendations, credits, and experience. The only thing that should be different is the Valor gain. 2000 is a tad low, it would be better if it was around 2500 with 8 medals and a loss, and 3500 with 8 medals and a win. The instant you shaft the losing team that badly with 40 commendations for 8 medals, you won't have a single person sticking around to win a match.

 

Why bother fighting your heart out to lose a game 6-3 or 6-4, finish with a respectable 10-14 medals, and get next to no commendations.

 

1.2 has been one slap in the face after another.

 

NO RANKED! *slap*

WAR HERO GRIND QUADRUPLED! *slap*

REDUCED WARZONE GAINS! *slap*

[looneybinjim]

I don't like this system. Why should afk'ing or basically not doing anything at all (less than 4 medals) still get you half the MAX total rewards?

 

This was the problem in the first place, and I'm assuming the reason BW decided to implement stiffer penalties.

 

afking is an entirely different problem all together and should be dealt with via a seperate system.

[Monkeybusiness]

while they allow pugs vs premades, you can't punish losing this harshly.

 

Well unless you don't see the endgame of that, where randoms just stop queueing (which has killed a lot of pvp already)

 

idd, Queues have gone up and even pvp guild have pretty much given up since the grind is just too much.

[looneybinjim]

So finally I had time to play few warzones.

 

When I lost one, I had 7 medals and got 55 commendations.

 

I honestly don't understand what the whole QQ is about? It's raining bloody medals from the sky in warzones.

 

The only time I can see not getting anything if I backfill a losing match towards the end. But hey, it's not the end of the world.

 

the reward you get is also based on the team score in each wz - for instance if your team gets beat 6-0 in huttball you will get nothing regardless of the amount of medals you get, if you get beat 6:5 or 4:3 or even 5:5 (and the other team is holding the ball at the end for the win) you will get more, the higher the team score.

[Alcarinn]

The new system is GREAT!!

 

But it has a couple of problems let me wrote them down for everyone.

 

 

1. no quitting penalty (it needs 15-30 min deserter debuff)

2. finishing Warzone should grant 10 comms

3. Credits should be attached on your medals/kills (for example 1 medal = 100 credits + base 250 for finishing warzone regardless of loss/win)

4. Valor should be 500 loosing 1000 win + 1 medal extra 200(up to 8)

 

That would be perfectly solved then (oh and keep 3 medals req for rewards EXCEPT 250 credits and 10 comms that should be given regardless of medal amount)

[LemmingLeader]

I think what has happened is simple. A lot of players were used to putting in very little effort while others worked their butts off and still getting rewards for it. Under this current system, that just wont work anymore. Further, if I am going to complete my daily I am not about to stay in a match where I walk in and the team is already losing and losing badly...no rewards at all so whats the incentive? So heres what is going to occur, players are going to finally realise they have to go all out and play smart. It should get better with ranked warzones because the well geared premades are going to go there..Whats that you say..Im not on a premade..I actually have a solution...the queues need to be split between joining solo or as a team and no fraking mixing the two!!!!. Having said that, long term the cross server tech will assist in improving balance on teams but I dont know when that will occur. Im not saying this can be fixed fast or quickly but I can see this will eventually get better. One final comment, it was once put to me they should segment the warzones based on valour not level and perhaps thats something to consider. Thats my input and am sure other players have some ideas which could and should be considered by Bioware as PvP should always be changed and improved.

 

Pre-1.2, if you were sitting on your butt contributing little, it still reflected on the rewards. You were not going to get much in the way of medals and such.

 

Pre-1.2, even if you lost, but were high ranking in various portions (damage, healing, protection, objectives, etc) you got rewarded for your efforts. Definitely not like winning, but at least losing players that were effective got something out of the fight.

 

In the current system implemented in 1.2, even an effective player on the losing side gets squat.

 

So again, why should someone stay in a losing match?

[Alcarinn]

Pre-1.2, if you were sitting on your butt contributing little, it still reflected on the rewards. You were not going to get much in the way of medals and such.

 

Pre-1.2, even if you lost, but were high ranking in various portions (damage, healing, protection, objectives, etc) you got rewarded for your efforts. Definitely not like winning, but at least losing players that were effective got something out of the fight.

 

In the current system implemented in 1.2, even an effective player on the losing side gets squat.

 

So again, why should someone stay in a losing match?

 

But why are you lying!

 

You dont get 0 i lost earlier 7 medals and i got 57 comms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 851 credits, 11k XP and 1500 valor

 

AND WE LOST!

 

if you suck dont lie that you get 0

 

you only get 0 if you get less than 3 medals!

[ChrisLBC]

The new PVP Medals system is completely broken.

 

I had 9 medals last match, and we lost, so i got 40 commendations...

 

If we had won, that would have been 100..

 

They punish the losing team too much, to an extent that there is NO point in hanging around if you know you're not going to win...

 

The winners get to gear up, leaving the losers behind, rinse, repeat.. Soon on ever server you're going to get one faction completely dominant in terms of gear..

 

The system is entirely broken.

 

 

You think it was bad with people leaving OPS < 1.2. It's going to be a lot worse now.

 

CORRECT THIS IMMEDIATELY, BIOWARE.

 

I think that we can all agree with this statement. I've played against the same premade 9 times in a row now, getting destroyed every time and getting approx 0 - 40 comms per match. ***...

 

Edit: oh and me and my buddy are both BiS full BM gear, which doesn't matter when you keep getting the same full BM premades over and over, them winning with 3 caps or 6-0 huttball matches where you can't even get 1-5 kills per match. then they gloriously get 9-12 medals each when our team gets approx 3-5 medals each.

Edited April 14, 2012 by ChrisLBC

[jolleebindu]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

If he got 9 medals, he did something. Rewarding the individual player based on the team's performance is only a good idea if the players of the team get to chose each other i.e. group que. Putting pug v premade and then tying rewards to performance is a straight up bad idea.

[jolleebindu]

I think that we can all agree with this statement. I've played against the same premade 9 times in a row now, getting destroyed every time and getting approx 0 - 40 comms per match. ***...

 

Edit: oh and me and my buddy are both BiS full BM gear, which doesn't matter when you keep getting the same full BM premades over and over, them winning with 3 caps or 6-0 huttball matches where you can't even get 1-5 kills per match. then they gloriously get 9-12 medals each when our team gets approx 3-5 medals each.

 

My feeling exactly, though i don't have the full bm gear on my alt, just on main (pvp on alt is more fun style). This reward system is not fit for putting groups against pug teams. The exception might be if there were skill brackets, to ensure (skill based) relatively fair matches.

[jolleebindu]

The new system is GREAT!!

 

But it has a couple of problems let me wrote them down for everyone.

 

 

1. no quitting penalty (it needs 15-30 min deserter debuff)

2. finishing Warzone should grant 10 comms

3. Credits should be attached on your medals/kills (for example 1 medal = 100 credits + base 250 for finishing warzone regardless of loss/win)

4. Valor should be 500 loosing 1000 win + 1 medal extra 200(up to 8)

 

That would be perfectly solved then (oh and keep 3 medals req for rewards EXCEPT 250 credits and 10 comms that should be given regardless of medal amount)

 

i agree in principle except for the deserter penalty, if people want to quit then it's not fun and then that needs to be addressed, not just punishing them for not wanting to be fodder if leaving is punished then surrendering needs to be an option

[jolleebindu]

But why are you lying!

 

You dont get 0 i lost earlier 7 medals and i got 57 comms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 851 credits, 11k XP and 1500 valor

 

AND WE LOST!

 

if you suck dont lie that you get 0

 

you only get 0 if you get less than 3 medals!

 

that can happen, that's not all that happens. If you spend your time trying to cap a node/point against a better team you wind up getting straight damage/healing/protection medals and nothing more. The result is you getting very little commendations/valor. Your loss was against a relatively equally geared/skilled team that resulted in a relatively close outcome. That isn't always, or even mostly, the case.

[Alcarinn]

i agree in principle except for the deserter penalty, if people want to quit then it's not fun and then that needs to be addressed, not just punishing them for not wanting to be fodder if leaving is punished then surrendering needs to be an option

 

the point of deserter penalty is that if you JOIN a TEAMBASED match you should stick with it to the end. and if you have sudden RL problems you wouldnt care for 15-30 min of deserter cos then RL would take that time.

 

Ok i could live with surrender option but then lets make some other penalty like I surrender and you loose i dont know 20 comms and 1000 valor

[jolleebindu]

Pre-1.2, if you were sitting on your butt contributing little, it still reflected on the rewards. You were not going to get much in the way of medals and such.

 

Pre-1.2, even if you lost, but were high ranking in various portions (damage, healing, protection, objectives, etc) you got rewarded for your efforts. Definitely not like winning, but at least losing players that were effective got something out of the fight.

 

In the current system implemented in 1.2, even an effective player on the losing side gets squat.

 

So again, why should someone stay in a losing match?

 

i agree, why not just add the winning bonus to the pre 1.2 rewards?

[jolleebindu]

the point of deserter penalty is that if you JOIN a TEAMBASED match you should stick with it to the end. and if you have sudden RL problems you wouldnt care for 15-30 min of deserter cos then RL would take that time.

 

Ok i could live with surrender option but then lets make some other penalty like I surrender and you loose i dont know 20 comms and 1000 valor

 

why must they be penalized beyond not being rewarded the winning bonus? - that is a penalty

[jolleebindu]

If the system makes sticking around and fighting it out in a losing situation pointless, why should one waste their valuable time?

 

When 1.2 went into effect and I noticed people dropping when we were losing, I cursed them for not sticking around. To make the fight at least "respectable." But when the match ended, and despite being in the top 1/3 with medals and such, I saw the reason why.

 

Sticking around for a defeat in PvP is completely and utterly useless. Whereas people before would have kept on fighting, at least getting rewards for their performance, but now? You get squat.

 

I fully understood why people drop out like crazy now. Because it's actually wiser and more effective use of your personal time not to hang around for a defeat.

 

One of the worst PvP systems I've ever seen implemented on a live MMORPG. Absolutely horrible.

 

funny story... me too

[Alcarinn]

why must they be penalized beyond not being rewarded the winning bonus? - that is a penalty

 

Leaving warzone DURING a match is HUGE penalty for the side they left also..... so they gave penalty to those staying and only took away their rewards while POTENTIALLY they also (because of leaving) made their side loose?

 

So lets say the player stays.... they win cos its 8vs8 and they dont cap that 1 cruical point in huttball...

 

In the end that side wins and they get 80-100 comms each lets say the guy leaves(or even 2) and the side looses and they get average 30 comms.

 

so they cost them 50-60 comms in average to EVERYONE

Edited April 14, 2012 by Alcarinn

[chillshock]

The one thing I find amazing: The lack of posts that say "well I play it for fun, some you lose, some the others win..."

 

Honestly, as long as it's not getting steamrolled and there is the feeling of "having a chance" it's all good. I actually enjoy it.

 

Good deserter punishment:

For the duration of 6 hours there can be no commendations earned. You can buy the debuff remover for 500 Warzone commendations.

You will never get queued with someone who has you on his ignore list.