Too many cc abilities- world record in mmo history

[Darth_Philar]

Sadly the developers agree with you. No, Not being able to Play the game you are trying to Play is not what PvP is about.

 

PvP is not about damage it is about controlling your opponent so you can complete the objective.

 

CC stands for "Crowd Control" (or "Character Control" in some rare contexts). Control being the key word there.

 

See where I'm going with this?

[Verain]

Video or it didn't happen.

 

This. While resolve is very much a mechanic up for debate, there is no evidence that it does anything except work as described. I'm quite sick of claims to the contrary, as thankfully are others in this thread.

 

Actually, very few characters can kill you in 8 sec of stun alone (OP, deception assasin and that is probably all). Not a single character can stun you for 8 seconds alone in 1.2 patch (I think OP/scoundrel can do it now, but when they will get a 7,5 sec CD on Hidden Strike it will no longer be possible).

 

I honestly very much doubt that. On live, I absolutely see characters die within that timespan at times.

 

 

When you die in 8 sec, there is more than 1 enemy. In WoW, how long you can be CCed by 2 opponents that synergize well with each other?

 

In theory, the answer is the same as in this game: for properly chosen classes and cooldowns, forever. In practice, this is a stupid question to ask. Obviously, a resolve bar stops indefinite chain mezzes. Equally obviously, the few stuns available to most classes, can, if chained, result in an almost guaranteed death. If you get stunned in WoW, trinket it, get stunned again, that stun will likely be about 2 seconds, three at the most. Get stunned a third time, and we are talking on the order of a second at most. That's a lot of stuns being brought to bear, and now you are immune to them. Here, whether you trinket the first effect that stuns you or the one that fills your resolve bar, you are stunned for a more significant amount of time. Additionally, other types of CC, such as a root, allow you to be absolutely wailed on, where they would break on damage in WoW.

[anstalt]

Warhammer had more CC than TOR

 

Plus, whilst I agree that too much CC *can* ruin pvp, I don't think it does in TOR because everyone has it. If everyone has the ability to CC others, it turns it in to an important part of pvp and a differentiator between good pvpers and bad pvpers.

 

Do I sometimes get stunned to death? Sure. If it irritating getting rooted in the fire in huttball? Damn straight! But, I can do it to the enemy too, and its fun when im the one dishing it out!

[carpatian]

The CC system does need diminishing returns.

 

If someone gets chain stunned 3 times in a row, they ought to be completely immune for the next 1 minute.

 

Since resolve is a broken system there needs to be some sort of implementation that would actually force players to use their CC more sparingly and wisely, instead of blowing their entire load of them and letting the rest of their ranged team beat the **** out of them because they're stun-locked and are powerless.

 

I never played WoW, a few of my friends do and the diminishing returns system in that regarding CC is pretty good - I think it would help the PvP community a lot and bring more skill and strategy into the mix.

 

Id love to see that implemented. i think is a great idea

[Sholagar]

Then I guess I'm a very childish 44 year old man.

 

I only do what I like.

I never eat chicken because I hate chicken, I never listen to Lady Gaga because I hate crap music, I never watch Big Brother because I hate...stupid things.

I cancelled SWTOR subscription because pvp sucks, and I play MMOs for the pvp, not for the leveling experience.

 

It's my life. I love it.

 

Its funny that you say you hate chicken, but your version of PvP with apparently no CC available would result in a bunch of people running around unhindered trying to deathmatch each other..... running around kinda like chickens with their heads cut off.

 

CC is neccessary...... otherwise every team would be made up of nothing but healers guarded by tanks.

 

You guys talking about force chokes.... thats actually the fairest form of CC in the game, because it takes both the Choker and the Chokee out of the engagement equation, AND they are on a cool down. If you are getting chain choked, you have TWO separate people doing pretty much nothing but focusing you down. Are you saying that you should not be able to be focused down???

 

 

CC is a learn to play issue..... learn to play

[Isislol]

CC is needed in pvp but honestly there's just too much CC in this game. Nothing is more frustrating then closing the gap only to get knocked back off the ledge or into the fire to insta die.

I understand ranged classes need knockbacks and roots so they don't get zerged by melee but if you have 3-4 players knocking back everyone the moment someone gets in melee range something's wrong.

I mean I don't mind getting kitted by good players but if a trash clicker knocks me back and kills me before i can make it back to the bridge something is seriously wrong.

[Kaarsa]

 

I honestly very much doubt that. On live, I absolutely see characters die within that timespan at times.

 

 

Yea, I see that too, but very rarely in 1v1, for 2 reasons. 1. Only 1 class can stun you alone for 8 sec now. 2. Only 1 class deals severe damage with the stun.

 

This class being operative/scoudnrel ofc, they have to use their in-combat vanish to do double opener and this one has a lenghty CD.

 

Otherwise, no class can stun you for 8 seconds. Even if they could, it is only 4 GCD (not counting stuns, because they deal pitiful damage) to kill you. Dead in 4 GCD? Maybe with some great gear discrepancy or deception sin with all CD popped (shock+chain shock, discharge, maul, assassinate, all crits). But hey, they cant stun you for so long;)

 

CC is needed in pvp but honestly there's just too much CC in this game. Nothing is more frustrating then closing the gap only to get knocked back off the ledge or into the fire to insta die.

I understand ranged classes need knockbacks and roots so they don't get zerged by melee but if you have 3-4 players knocking back everyone the moment someone gets in melee range something's wrong.

I mean I don't mind getting kitted by good players but if a trash clicker knocks me back and kills me before i can make it back to the bridge something is seriously wrong.

 

Not charging them as first move does wonders usually:) Knockbacks, when you approach without charging, are fairly easy countered with proper positioning, when I started pvping I was pushed down from catwalks all the time, now more often than not I manage to stay there. And ofc there are specs/skills that allow you to laugh at their insta konckbacks (unstoppable, force shroud, hold the line etc).

[Verain]

Here's why I want the resolve bar to work:

 

-> It's a SIMPLE system with a GOOD UI ELEMENT.

 

A lot of the UI in this game is awful. I'm particularly angry about having to look for debuffs or buffs that MIGHT appear when I do a certain move- having to scan some tiny immovable piece of space to see whether I should maul or whatever is hideous. A good UI will pop up a power aura, or just support power auras, or make a noise to alert me, or something. In fact, the one part about this actually in-game- upper hand procs- is being taken out!

 

But the resolve bar? Is aces. I can tell, at a glance, whether a player is immune to CCs. I want to kill players who have low resolve and low health, because my stun will be game over (the reverse is true for healing). I will use my cooldown CCs correctly, because there's not some invisible imp secretly going to halve or quarter my duration.

 

Don't take this as an insult to WoW's DR system, but it is unquestionably complex. In fact, I'm betting that maybe three people in this thread could actually explain it. Most people know some of the categories, but not everyone knows them all. Sap and polymorph share a category, as does fear and blind. Does everyone know what DR psyshic horror is on? It's on two! And the actual way it works isn't "wait X seconds after the last stun, and then the stun DR clears". The addons that show that are guessing. In fact, there's an invisible server pulse that asks "has it been 15 seconds since the end of the last CC in this category", and if it has, it resets DR on that CC. So if your addon guesses 20 seconds, it's too conservative most of the time- if it guesses 15, you'll often end up screwing your CCs up. Many guess 18, and that's not right all the time either.

 

 

One of the comments earlier is like "if I survive three stuns, I should be immune to stuns for a minute". Could you picture how ludicrous THAT game would look? Can I stun the guy? What if there was a carbonize in his last 30 seconds?

 

In WoW, it is definitely frustrating to kidney shot a target in a battleground only to find that, in fact, some jackhole had stunned him recently and the stun lasts a second or even he's immune. In arena, on the other hand, it's a pretty fair system- If I stun the guy for a second, it's because I needed that second of stun, I *knew* he was on DR, because I did it- and an addon can guess it.

 

 

 

 

So, I want the resolve system to work. The devs have to work around it though- it would be too easy to trivialize CC in the same fashion.

[xPANDORAx]

There is the right amount of cc in the game. Cc locking is the major issue. and it stems from groups of people attacking you. Not just one person.

 

I have encountered no issues what so ever with the resolve bar, but have heard of people having issues with it.

 

The solution for the knock backs on the catwalks, position yourself in relation to the person so if they do knock you back, your just getting shot down the catwalk, not off of it

[Darth_Victus]

I dont think there is too much CC's in the game.

 

The problem is that there is not enough ways to counter the CC's. There is already enouigh posts about the flaws of the current Resolve system. The players CC breaker only breaks that CC and does not leave the player immune for a short while, so they can become CC'd immediately afterwards for the full duration (if they used it before the Resolve bar was full).

 

Now, if BioWare were to add in a diminishing return systeam based on the players Resolve Bar, issues with CC's would not be as bad in my opinion. I believe that is what PVP is missing that makes it more fun in other MMOs.

[TUXs]

Go play a game with the CC system you want if you don't like this one.

 

Those who know this system do not have any real problems with it.

 

BS! Don't pretend to speak for me, that's your opinion, not mine. I know this system, I know how it works and when it won't. I HAVE A REAL problem with it. CC's are crazy outta control in SWTOR.

 

No matter how many times people like you defend the ridiculous system as it is, it doesn't make it better nor acceptable to a multitude of players. A vast number of us DO understand how resolve currently works and we think it's f'd up!

 

PvP is not about stuns, that's stupid! The number of CCs, the inadequate resolve system and the number of CCs that bypass freaking resolve is nuts! I hate it. It ruins PvP for me.

[TUXs]

PvP is not about damage it is about controlling your opponent so you can complete the objective.

 

CC stands for "Crowd Control" (or "Character Control" in some rare contexts). Control being the key word there.

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

Ah! So, PvP, to you, means whoever has the most CCs right? Sounds...lame tbh.

 

PvP, IMO, is about beating your opponent. Doesn't matter if it's an objective, DPS or in healing. CC's are cheap. Why would I find any satisfaction in winning, when I didn't beat my opponent, I simply didn't allow him to fight back? That's kinda like killing a player who has disconnected...I bet you like that too huh? I find outwitting your opponent to be more enjoyable than beating him while he is completely unable to do anything.

[Isislol]

CC will get fixed sooner or later no matter how hard some of you defend it. I get it, if I had iwin button I wouldn't want to lose it too.

[Scoobings]

What's funny is this game doesn't have more CC abilities than any other MMO.

[VertisReaper]

CC seems fine in this game. Resolve is a nice alternative to DR. As a guard I have an AoE CC that lasts for 6 seconds that breaks on damage, a knockback, and a 3 sec channeled stun that also CC's myself... i dont think that is out of line by any means, all are on ~1 min cds.

 

Warriors in WoW have a 5 sec knockdown, along with an AoE CC that lasts for 8 seconds and doesn't always break on damage, every gap closer also stuns for 1 sec.

 

Maybe you are talking about a specific class, if so which one?

Edited April 6, 2012 by VertisReaper

[carpatian]

Other games have no hutball 90% of the time , a broken map where a broken abused cc system can guarantee win. i dont wana play futball !!! i want to kill ppls damn

[xPANDORAx]

My biggest issue with classes is the smuggler class with the cc's they have. I have no problem taking on one smuggler, but when you come across a team with 4 or more of them, and they run together, you will be cc locked your entire life if they catch you.

 

I'm sure on the Republic side, they get tired of Operatives and there capabilities. But as a Empire player, I don't come across them often

 

PvP is getting over run with people going after the best "new pvp" class, and think they are better than you because they play these classes and kill you quickly because of cc locks, plus other attacks.

 

I hope to see more heal spec'd healers one day, they are a great asset to a team. And people really don't like to kill them either, I love watching my team, or the enemy just run past healers to attack dps classes, or tanks, because you think you will kill them while the healer heals them. Kill the healer, and the others will fall

[UltimateKrucible]

On the plus side, at least that's one less marauder to contend with in WZs

 

Thanks for the laughs!

[Dee-Jay]

I'm with the OP here.

 

~20 Sec. CD on AOE knockbacks is simply ridiculous.

 

And generally having so much AoE CC is bad design.

 

 

Things would be a lot better those AoE knockbacks had a much longer CD or some kind of target limiter.

[Shredbull]

I play a maradeur and i have to say im done with warzones not because i dont do well but is extremely,extremely anoying those milions cc abilities ,push backs,slows roots sleeps etc etc .i never played a mmo game with so many like swtor have . i dont wana say for empire side warzones is just about hutball 90% of the games where those ccs are even worse. i like the game but honestly how much love i need ,to keep playing with so many bs.i know there is many threads about that but this game pvp look like was made it by completely unispired team. sorry (sory im not native english speaker).

 

Leap stun interrupt interrupt interrupt interrupt interrupt interrupt interrupt choke interrupt interrupt interrupt dead enemy.

 

I wouldn't be complaining about cc if I played a marauder, I'd be complaining if I played a sniper, or mercenary.

 

Marauders are one of the, if not the strongest class ingame because if played well, which means the class has a "high" skillcap, the class is literally an unstoppable killing machine, soloing healers, bursting down most dpsers, it's mind baffling.

 

I didn't even bother reading after those first 4 words. It is time you invest your playtime into learning the class , rather than saying how bad cc is, imo.

[Valhalyn]

I'm suprised the people that haven't figured out how to play haven't started asking for Resilience gear and DR...Because ya know this games PVP isnt about being a Hero...its about working together in a team...oh my bad you got mad because you solo queue your PVP matches and get a group of like minded heroes like yourself. Learn to play as a team and you will have your enjoyable PVP...Unless you prefer being the hero and in that case go download League of Legends, queue up for Twisted Treeline, pick Tryndamere and spin to win.

 

Crying because you dont know how to play a team pvp game and think that with your awesome gear and or 1337 dps/skill you should be able to carry everyone isnt going to cut it. Learn to.....wait for it....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PLAY

[Shredbull]

I'm suprised the people that haven't figured out how to play haven't started asking for Resilience gear and DR...Because ya know this games PVP isnt about being a Hero...its about working together in a team...oh my bad you got mad because you solo queue your PVP matches and get a group of like minded heroes like yourself. Learn to play as a team and you will have your enjoyable PVP...Unless you prefer being the hero and in that case go download League of Legends, queue up for Twisted Treeline, pick Tryndamere and spin to win.

 

Crying because you dont know how to play a team pvp game and think that with your awesome gear and or 1337 dps/skill you should be able to carry everyone isnt going to cut it. Learn to.....wait for it....

 

 

 

 

 

 

PLAY

 

Well said mister barney stinson

[Manigma]

Being chain cc'ed is good, it means they can't CC your team members when they join the fight.

[Valhalyn]

Once again dont mention team, these people dont understand that term. Remember this is PLAYER versus PLAYER, and they take that quite literally. Doesn't matter what game they play, they only want fair 1v1's with no cc's so it comes down to who has the better internet connection and who has the 1 piece of gear thats better than the other persons.

 

I'm pretty sure I read a few pages back about how someone says that CC's are cheap and he prefers to outwit his opponent to win. Hi, the definition of using a CC would like to see you...

 

Want most of you want is a single 1 on 1 game where no one has CC's and its all about spamming your buttons to win. You're all quite boring and you will never find that outside of a single player game or every once in awhile World PVP. But something tells me most of you are the douchebags that frequent the lower Contested areas to gank whoever and whenever you can...

 

You're mentalities are flawed, and you will never be happy. Stop playing the game if you want, but you've only failed yourself by giving up on something instead of learning to adapt and overcome.

[xPANDORAx]

"Being chain cc'ed is good, it means they can't CC your team members when they join the fight".

 

I guess that's a good way to look at from the team aspect, but from my perspective( gets chain cc'd a lot) it still kinda sucks.

 

if being chain cc'd really helps my team (even when most of the team has no idea what they are doing) then so be it.

Edited April 7, 2012 by xPANDORAx