3 Days as an Advanced Prototype on live: An in-depth Pyro BH’s look

[BobaFaceroll]

Thursday is Patch Day!

[Coramac]

That would only make sense if the dot lasted as long as the CD. I think what many of us hate is the Energy to damage ratio. I think the base numbers are better with buffs than most of our attacks, but it takes time to get there. I think it came out to a baseline of 77damage per tick. Which is fine, and I don't see a problem with adding RB into a rotation. Personally the only ability I don't like using is RS.

 

RB is 16 heat for a baseline damage of 1900 over 18 seconds. The initial attack is really weak and where most people get hurt because they could hit for 3400 instead of 700 with a dot so the additional damage didn't make up for the 2800 damage lost. I would have to test RB to see what it's actual damage count is on a boss. To really come up with some plus minuses.

 

It makes it similar to the Sentinel / Marauder DoTs. Condensing the damage makes it significantly more useful in PvP situations. This would increase the DoT damage tick to 250% of current. PvE, this would be an irrelevant change.

[Karandor]

It makes it similar to the Sentinel / Marauder DoTs. Condensing the damage makes it significantly more useful in PvP situations. This would increase the DoT damage tick to 250% of current. PvE, this would be an irrelevant change.

 

This would be excellent. Now if the HiB/RS proc would make it a crit AND refesh the Gut/RB DoT/snare we would be getting to a good place.

[TheOpf]

thursday is patch day!

 

sweet loving!!!!

[TheOpf]

This would be excellent. Now if the HiB/RS proc would make it a crit AND refesh the Gut/RB DoT/snare we would be getting to a good place.

 

That might be the best revamp of the Charged Gauntlets/RB that I have read.

 

Charged Gauntlets = Guaranteed crit and the Rail shot extends the RB Dot. This would force us to use both RB and RS, but not waste a CD on RB.

[Agooz]

My take on things:

 

- If they want to make RS part of the rotation to limit ability spam, then why not have RS refresh dot of RB and let the tick do 2x the damage. In other words, taking charged gauntlets, would let your RS refresh the dot and adds 100% potency to it. That way you'd want to use RB in the beginning, and then also make use of the crit RS to refresh RB and not waste another GCD on it, or even better so you dont need to be in melee to reapply it in mid fight.

 

- Another suggestion, have RS reduce the Active cooldown of HO by 6sec. That would be worth investing those 8extra points into it.

 

- With regards to the non-RS build, I always called it [Prototype "Advanced"], as I felt it was superior So one can say, I am running the AP PA spec lol

Edited April 10, 2012 by Agooz

[TheOpf]

My take on things:

 

- If they want to make RS part of the rotation to limit ability spam, then why not have RS refresh dot of RB and let the tick do 2x the damage. In other words, taking charged gauntlets, would let your RS refresh the dot and adds 100% potency to it. That way you'd want to use RB in the beginning, and then also make use of the crit RS to refresh RB and not waste another GCD on it, or even better so you dont need to be in melee to reapply it in mid fight.

 

- Another suggestion, have RS reduce the Active cooldown of HO by 6sec. That would be worth investing those 8extra points into it.

 

I like it, but the HO thing would be a bit much. The refresh dot seems like what everyone is wishing it would do.

 

- With regards to the non-RS build, I always called it [Prototype "Advanced"], as I felt it was superior So one can say, I am running the AP PA spec lol

 

I will add it to the list. Let's get three more names, and then we will put up a vote after 1.2 hits just so we can do some testing to make sure the dps is competitive with RS builds in pve. Though I think PVP wise it will still be very viable.

 

So Far we have the GHC build and the AP PA build (totally hilariously lame) It's as bad as the Non-RS/RB build.

[Agooz]

So Far we have the GHC build and the AP PA build (totally hilariously lame) It's as bad as the Non-RS/RB build.

 

Well it would actually be the APPA spec lol

[TheOpf]

Well it would actually be the APPA spec lol

 

Oh sorry, I added a space haha

 

So name options thus far:

 

Gordon Haddon Clark (GHC) Build - suggestion by Karandor

 

 

APPA (Advanced Prototype Prototype Advanced) Build - thanks to Agooz

 

 

Forum Monkeys Build - suggestion by TheOpf

 

 

Monkey Wrench - Suggestion by Gomezie

 

 

I am suggesting the forum Monkeys because it took a bunch of people monkeying around on the forums and with the build to come up with it together. Plus everyone thinks the forums are populated by a bunch of troll monkeys .

 

Okay let's get 1 or two more possible names than I will toss up a poll on both the Vanguard (they love us there, poor Karandor, has some work to do with them) and over here on the PT forums.

 

We could also split the name one for Vanguard and one for PT. Though that might get confusing haha! Who can tell I am pumped about 1.2!!!!!!

Edited April 10, 2012 by TheOpf

[Gomezie]

I like the monkey idea... how about more specifically "Monkey Wrench" xD

 

Sry , had to

[TheOpf]

I like the monkey idea... how about more specifically "Monkey Wrench" xD

 

Sry , had to

 

It's not bad actually. It has some humor in it. I will add it to the list.

[Theology]

RIP Pyrotech 1.2

[Xsorus]

Oh sorry, I added a space haha

 

So name options thus far:

 

Gordon Haddon Clark (GHC) Build - suggestion by Karandor

 

 

APPA (Advanced Prototype Prototype Advanced) Build - thanks to Agooz

 

 

Forum Monkeys Build - suggestion by TheOpf

 

 

Monkey Wrench - Suggestion by Gomezie

 

 

I am suggesting the forum Monkeys because it took a bunch of people monkeying around on the forums and with the build to come up with it together. Plus everyone thinks the forums are populated by a bunch of troll monkeys .

 

Okay let's get 1 or two more possible names than I will toss up a poll on both the Vanguard (they love us there, poor Karandor, has some work to do with them) and over here on the PT forums.

 

We could also split the name one for Vanguard and one for PT. Though that might get confusing haha! Who can tell I am pumped about 1.2!!!!!!

 

My suggestion one be to call the spec the Tibetan Candle ;o)

[Karandor]

 

Okay let's get 1 or two more possible names than I will toss up a poll on both the Vanguard (they love us there, poor Karandor, has some work to do with them) and over here on the PT forums.

 

We could also split the name one for Vanguard and one for PT. Though that might get confusing haha! Who can tell I am pumped about 1.2!!!!!!

 

 

Heh, the VG forum is a really slow moving forum compared to this one and the spec discussion is pretty non-existent from the PoV of pure optimization of builds.

 

 

The guys who play tactics over there haven't really thought things through that much.

 

 

In other news I broke 600k in a Voidstar today. AoE destruction. I think I will break 700k after the patch if the mortar volley and sticky grenade bonus from PG doesn't get fixed in 1.2. People may start asking for it to be fixed once I'm through optimizing my play style.

[Mapex]

Okay after talking with Mapex and seeing his rotation. I have realized some errors in the Non-RB/RS build (It really needs a better name).

 

Pre 1.2 rotation:

 

ED/Sticky - Immolate/Fire Pulse - Flame Burst/Ion Pulse x3 - Rocket Punch/Stockstrike - FB/IP x 2 - PFT/PG

 

You can then weave in the free RP/SS anywhere within the FB/IP spam as long as it's not at 5 stacks.

 

Honestly Mapex, I don't see how you using RB/Gut and RS/HiB doesn't increase your heat worse than the non-RS/RB build.

I never said you would avoid Heat issues by doing the RB/RS rotation; that just gives you some extra damage to soften up the target before finishing them off from 40% to 0% with PFT. The Heat issue won't be avoided until they make it so Immolate adds 2 stacks and/or Rocket Punch/Rail Shot/and/or Retractable Blade adds 1 stack of PFT. That might mean a nerf to the damage of PFT, though, since it will be easier to stack up.

 

I still think your rotation is extremely long, but that is the RB/RS rotation. The problem is that your RP isn't off CD after your FBx5 that's only 4.5 seconds and 1.5 seconds for RS that means you are sitting around waiting for 3 seconds for RP to be available. If you pop pft, than you have an issue of passing the 40 heat because you used RB and RS. Your first RP has to be used immediately after Immolate to be available after your RB/RS/FBx5 usage. Even then y ou are only at 7.5 seconds and you have to wait 1.5 seconds to use your free RP.

 

If you use PFT on 5 stacks than you would have to start your next rotation with RP. This is why the non-RS/RB rotation works better. It's smoother, less clunky, and provides the same damage over the course of a fight. It's definitely better in terms of short term burst in pvp.

 

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However, my problem still sits in that you are using a free RP when you should be using PFT if you move RP to immediately after PFT, you then run a RP/Imm/RB/RS/FBx2/RP/FBx3 - pft type of rotation.

 

That pushes your PFT's further and further back. Does this makes sense? The only question is does the GCD count against the CD of the abilities?

First off, GCD is 1.5 seconds - FBx5 = 5*1.5 = 7.5 seconds.

 

Secondly, yes, if an ability has a 9 sec cooldown, then after the GCD ends it will be at 7.5 seconds (that means you get to fit in 5 instant abilities between two RPs). On live if you do Imm->RB->RP->5xFB->RS->RP->FT, you have 6 instants between the two RPs, meaning you are delaying your second RP by 1.5 seconds. However, since Immolate is adding a PFT stack in 1.2, you can remove one FB and the first rotation gets cleaned up quite nicely with no wasted time between the first two RPs.

 

Still, this spec like most other specs in this game operates more on a priority rotation so after the first cycle it doesn't really make sense to analyze the rotations. Instead, you should analyze the playstyles. Is it better to stack up 5xPFT and unleash it constantly or is it actually a damage loss to not include the RB ticks and auto-crit Rail Shot? We won't find out until Thursday it seems.

 

 

On the general topic of speccing for RB/RS over 9% Aim:

 

In 1.2, the rotation will be very clean if you include RS and RB, but Heat is still an issue due to FBx4 spam. I'm not 100% sure on including RS in your rotation either if speccing this way (though you are less reliant on blowing people up with PFT if the opportunity doesn't arise for whatever reason).

 

However, with the new BM set, 9% Aim (including 250 base, Aim DPS Matrix cube, and +30 to +40 from Aim datacrons) will give you a whopping +25 Power and .30% crit chance for 3 points. Don't get me wrong, Power is Power (hehe, Game of Thrones quote), but that little bit just isn't worth the potential of bursting down a target with CG and slowing them with Hamstring. The 9% Aim talent really lends itself more for PvE over PvP (like with most other classes) as PvE gear lacks Expertise which otherwise eats away at the item's budget to slot Aim instead.

 

For Thursday I would still recommend speccing 5/34/2 because of the utility of the RB slow and the potential to kill an enemy with crit RS (or further soften them up before using a PFT). Though for best results, we should all try the different builds we are proposing and at the end of the day compare notes.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Mapex

[Agooz]

However, with the new BM set, 9% Aim (including 250 base, Aim DPS Matrix cube, and +30 to +40 from Aim datacrons) will give you a whopping +25 Power and .30% crit chance for 3 points.

 

I am not exactly sure what you meant with this math, but it doesnt make any sense to me. I know that 1 Aim = .22 damage (not power), approx. and more if we are talking about Tech abilities.

At lvl50 1500 Aim is attainable. 9% aim is about an extra 135 which translates to about 30 damage, and more on tech. 9% aim over RS enhancement is actually more beneficial for AP and Shieldtech than Pyro builds. With 15sec CD on RS, that's 10 GCDs that would benefit from the 9%, not to mention that there will be times you wont even get to use RS once it's up.

[Mapex]

I am not exactly sure what you meant with this math, but it doesnt make any sense to me. I know that 1 Aim = .22 damage (not power), approx. and more if we are talking about Tech abilities.

At lvl50 1500 Aim is attainable. 9% aim is about an extra 135 which translates to about 30 damage, and more on tech. 9% aim over RS enhancement is actually more beneficial for AP and Shieldtech than Pyro builds. With 15sec CD on RS, that's 10 GCDs that would benefit from the 9%, not to mention that there will be times you wont even get to use RS once it's up.

 

Correct, the 25 in my post is damage, not Power, using Aim Matrix cube and 1.2 BM Combat Tech set (which has 984 Aim). You end up with something like 1330 Aim in the end, and the 0.3% crit and 25 damage boost is to both Ranged and Tech.

 

It's a playstyle/quality of life choice. Boosting all attacks by a small amount vs getting a slow on a spammable single target attack and an auto-crit 30m range attack.

[dardack]

Wow, that's really a drag. I was looking forward to it working as described in the patch notes. :/

 

Me too. When did they change it again? Sucky.

[dardack]

You are correct, and i was wrong. It is 6seconds which makes it better than I thought, but still not worth speccing into Charged Gauntlets yet.

 

Quote from the patch notes on PTS:

"Kolto Vents has been replaced by Hamstring, which causes Retractable Blade to slow the target by 30% for 6 seconds."

 

How is CG affecting the slow? CG is only for the free RP (but can be trigger by the RB bleed ticks now).

 

Srsly I've been asking why are people saying 4 points for slow. From what I can tell it's the 1 point in Vent I already have is now a slow.

 

Quote:

"Charged Gauntlets now triggers from damage dealt such that the bleed caused by Retractable Blade can trigger the buff. It now has a visual effect."

 

So I'll still get CG but now free RP can proc on the bleed. Still not wasting 4 points (don't care about increase bleed effect).

Edited April 11, 2012 by dardack

[Cryowolf]

Quote from the patch notes on PTS:

How is CG affecting the slow? CG is only for the free RP (but can be trigger by the RB bleed ticks now).

 

Charged Gauntlets is the skill that allows RP and RB a chance to make your next RS a guaranteed crit. The free RP comes the Flame Barrage skill.

 

In 1.2, The new 30% slow with RB skill will be arrow attached to Charged Gauntlets so if you want the slow on RB you will need to pick up:

 

RB

Serrated Blades

CG

Hamstring (or whatever the new slow is going to be called)

 

The 4 points people are referring to are for 3/3 Serrated Blades and CG, which would be skipped in a non RS build, but can't be skipped in 1.2 if you want the slow.

 

*edit for clarification.

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I have a question. Has anyone noticed a deadzone/bug with Pulse Cannon/Flame Thrower? I swear I missed point blank about a half dozen times last night. Maybe some lag was involved, but I know my intended target was stunned for some of the times it missed.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Cryowolf

[Coramac]

I have a question. Has anyone noticed a deadzone/bug with Pulse Cannon/Flame Thrower? I swear I missed point blank about a half dozen times last night. Maybe some lag was involved, but I know my intended target was stunned for some of the times it missed.

 

I think this is more of a sign of bad programming. I've hit someone I'm standing slightly infront of before and missed someone clearly in the radius. It's probably some kind of desync issue, similar to people teleporting around.

[exphryl]

With how easy it is to avoid flame thrower, be kind of nice if it worked like Force Lightning, but with a lower % damage to hitting other targets (To keep some AOE-Ability).

 

But at the very least you won't have to worry about latency and other still coding ruining a perfectly flamethrower on a target.

 

Obviously would never happen but still. Would add a bit more to Single Target DPS in PvP for the spec.

[Mapex]

I have a question. Has anyone noticed a deadzone/bug with Pulse Cannon/Flame Thrower? I swear I missed point blank about a half dozen times last night. Maybe some lag was involved, but I know my intended target was stunned for some of the times it missed.

 

Yeah, I pointed this out in another thread. The problem with non-targeted attacks is that there are a fair amount of sync issues in PvP where your enemy isn't actually where he appears to be. Fortunately these issues were worse in beta, though, so at least Bioware is on the right track to ironing them out.

 

Because your opponent can sometimes be in a location other than where they are displayed on the screen, you can end up missing an entire Flame Thrower channel. It also doesn't help that the damage ticks from your Flame Thrower are delayed - often you see all 3 ticks pop up on your screen at the same time - so you can't adapt to the situation quickly and reposition yourself.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Mapex

[dardack]

Charged Gauntlets is the skill that allows RP and RB a chance to make your next RS a guaranteed crit. The free RP comes the Flame Barrage skill.

 

In 1.2, The new 30% slow with RB skill will be attached to Charged Gauntlets so if you want the slow on RB you will need to pick up:

 

RB

Serrated Blades

CG

Hamstring (or whatever the new slow is going to be called)

 

The 4 points people are referring to are for 3/3 Serrated Blades and CG, which would be skipped in a non RS build, but can't be skipped in 1.2 if you want the slow.

 

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I have a question. Has anyone noticed a deadzone/bug with Pulse Cannon/Flame Thrower? I swear I missed point blank about a half dozen times last night. Maybe some lag was involved, but I know my intended target was stunned for some of the times it missed.

 

 

Again the patch notes I only see the slow attached to 1 skill point, not 4. Unless they made it so you HAVE to go up that way. Right now that skill isn't attached.

 

EDIT: So it is an arrow attached? That's BS

Edited April 11, 2012 by dardack

[Cryowolf]

Thanks for the replies. Very annoying when I pop all my CDs and then watch people stand in the graphic and take no damage, lol.

 

EDIT: So it is an arrow attached? That's BS

 

Yeah, defintely BS.

 

I will probably skip picking it up. I am not having problems with anyone getting away from me on live anyway.