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3 Days as an Advanced Prototype on live: An in-depth Pyro BH’s look


TheOpf

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Seems ya need CG for bloody RB snare, god why do they have to link the abilities like that.

 

"We know ya need a snare in the line, so we're going to attach it to 3 tiers of **** to force ya to get it"

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In 1.2 you will be able to use PFT more often because it will be un-interruptible and have a 70 percent slow. Which will mean no more popping it and watching someone run from you. It's usage will go way up.

 

I would prefer to have Charged Gauntlets proc Immolate/Fire Pulse Crits. The Free RP is nice, but I see your point.

 

You still need to have a situation where a self rooting channeled cone aoe is the right move, I just never ran into those situations. If fact it made me play worse because I tried to force it. I don't feel like the tree should revolve around it. The tree should be a melee with 10m range. That should be its strength and appeal. I would trade the flamethrower all together for my changes.

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You still need to have a situation where a self rooting channeled cone aoe is the right move, I just never ran into those situations. If fact it made me play worse because I tried to force it. I don't feel like the tree should revolve around it. The tree should be a melee with 10m range. That should be its strength and appeal. I would trade the flamethrower all together for my changes.

 

You will play worse currently because we have absolutely no ability to use it without getting absolutely wrecked in the process. Most of your pvp AP's use it as a situational ability as it's currently designed. Without playing on the pts I can't tell you how it will work in 1.2, but a self rooting channeled aoe will be significantly better than the current one.

 

I understand your point of view though, and honestly Shield tech is more of the Melee with 10m range than AP is currently.

 

Seems ya need CG for bloody RB snare, god why do they have to link the abilities like that.

 

"We know ya need a snare in the line, so we're going to attach it to 3 tiers of **** to force ya to get it"

 

Haha, I think most AP were thinking the same thing. However PFT has a snare too. I think their idea is to force us to do more than Immolate/FB spam PFT. They want the rotation or play style to be more open or dynamic. Personally, I find with RB/RS to be extremely clunky and unwieldy. I wish our snare was tied to FB and Pyro's was tied to Incendiary Missle or Rail Shot. Unfortunately that would be as ridiculous. I mean who would tie a 2sec snare to a rarely used ability that would drain our energy to try and keep the snare up? Wait...DANGIT!

Edited by TheOpf
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Haha, I think most AP were thinking the same thing. However PFT has a snare too. I think their idea is to force us to do more than Immolate/FB spam PFT. They want the rotation or play style to be more open or dynamic. Personally, I find with RB/RS to be extremely clunky and unwieldy. I wish our snare was tied to FB and Pyro's was tied to Incendiary Missle or Rail Shot. Unfortunately that would be as ridiculous. I mean who would tie a 2sec snare to a rarely used ability that would drain our energy to try and keep the snare up? Wait...DANGIT!

Imagine Charged Gauntlets made the crit Rail Shot also root the enemy; Kolto Vents should have stayed and instead increase the effect of Kolto Overload and Energy Shield since we go squish in melee range.

 

But alas Bioware really has a thing for spammable snares. They aren't as bad as dying in a 8 second stunlock, no, but they aren't far behind. The snares and roots in this game are out of control.

Edited by Mapex
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Imagine Charged Gauntlets made the crit Rail Shot also root the enemy; Kolto Vents should have stayed and instead increase the effect of Kolto Overload and Energy Shield since we go squish in melee range.

 

But alas Bioware really has a thing for spammable snares. They aren't as bad as dying in a 8 second stunlock, no, but they aren't far behind. The snares and roots in this game are out of control.

 

Most single target snares aren't bad, it's the AOE ones that the Lightsaber Classes get that are bloody stupid.

 

like the bloody Assassin one that's 30% snare PBAE, lasts 15 seconds, with a 7 second cooldown.

 

Or the Juggernaut one which is a bloody 9 second PBAE 50% snare with no cooldown and no cost if ya go up the Immortal Line.

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Most single target snares aren't bad, it's the AOE ones that the Lightsaber Classes get that are bloody stupid.

 

like the bloody Assassin one that's 30% snare PBAE, lasts 15 seconds, with a 7 second cooldown.

 

Or the Juggernaut one which is a bloody 9 second PBAE 50% snare with no cooldown and no cost if ya go up the Immortal Line.

 

IKR.

 

/5char

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Most single target snares aren't bad, it's the AOE ones that the Lightsaber Classes get that are bloody stupid.

 

like the bloody Assassin one that's 30% snare PBAE, lasts 15 seconds, with a 7 second cooldown.

 

Or the Juggernaut one which is a bloody 9 second PBAE 50% snare with no cooldown and no cost if ya go up the Immortal Line.

 

It's almost as bad as that AoE stun dropped by the freaking PT's I mean 45 sec cd on a 2.5 sec stun sheesh. OP much :p.

 

I don't mind snares. Roots I hate, but snares are really not a big deal because I am usually in melee range, and generally Juggs and assassins aren't looking to kite you. It's really only annoying in situations like VS. It's a situation ability that's rarely used except by tanks whose main job is to keep you off the healer. If it's game breaking you than you are running with the wrong team.

 

It's funny, because I hate snipers for the same reason though hmmm.

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Is there a visual/sound cue when the free RP activates? I thought I read somewhere that it would be similar to the current pyro RS one in 1.2. Interruptable PFT and the lack of obvious RP cue are my primary complaints about the AP spec I am currently using in 1.1.
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Most single target snares aren't bad, it's the AOE ones that the Lightsaber Classes get that are bloody stupid.

 

like the bloody Assassin one that's 30% snare PBAE, lasts 15 seconds, with a 7 second cooldown.

 

Or the Juggernaut one which is a bloody 9 second PBAE 50% snare with no cooldown and no cost if ya go up the Immortal Line.

 

Fair enough. Theoretically I hate the fact that everyone has all these movement speed boosts which then get nullified by spammable single target slows, but I guess they do serve a purpose to slow down enemy movement so that players don't have to suffer carpal tunnel due to swinging their mouse 360 degrees all the time (that's what Quake is for).

 

But yes the AOE ones are terrible, especially since Guardians/Juggernauts can make it resource-less. In beta, Mar/Sent could talent Smash/Sweep to spread Rupture/Cauterize, which when specced also slowed enemies; you got to spread a DoT for more damage/healing, slow a lot of people thanks to said DoT, and do burst damage in an AOE with one ability!

 

It's almost as bad as that AoE stun dropped by the freaking PT's I mean 45 sec cd on a 2.5 sec stun sheesh. OP much :p.

 

I don't mind snares. Roots I hate, but snares are really not a big deal because I am usually in melee range, and generally Juggs and assassins aren't looking to kite you. It's really only annoying in situations like VS. It's a situation ability that's rarely used except by tanks whose main job is to keep you off the healer. If it's game breaking you than you are running with the wrong team.

 

It's funny, because I hate snipers for the same reason though hmmm.

 

Roots suck because for half of the ACs (melee classes) they are basically stuns that operate independently from Resolve in most cases. Not fun to fight against, but I am glad they are so few and far between (Charges being the exception).

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Is there a visual/sound cue when the free RP activates? I thought I read somewhere that it would be similar to the current pyro RS one in 1.2. Interruptable PFT and the lack of obvious RP cue are my primary complaints about the AP spec I am currently using in 1.1.

 

I don't believe Flame Barrage has a visual or aural indicator when it procs, no.

 

As far a interruptible PFT, I usually just Unload to make someone waste the interrupt before I Flame Thrower unless I know the enemy is poor with interrupts (most are, surprisingly).

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I don't believe Flame Barrage has a visual or aural indicator when it procs, no.

 

As far a interruptible PFT, I usually just Unload to make someone waste the interrupt before I Flame Thrower unless I know the enemy is poor with interrupts (most are, surprisingly).

 

Flame Barrage does have a visual indicator on your buff bar. It's a guy flexing. It's in the same place as your PFT stacks.

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Flame Barrage does have a visual indicator on your buff bar. It's a guy flexing. It's in the same place as your PFT stacks.

 

That's a buff icon. Almost every other proc in the game has a sound or graphical cue on your character itself, i.e. PPA makes your character laugh and puts a fiery shield around you.

 

The poster was referring to such an effect, which Flame Barrage, Charged Gauntlets (it will in 1.2) and Prototype Flame Thrower, which could benefit from this type of effect at 5 stacks, do not yet possess.

Edited by Mapex
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That's a buff icon. Almost every other proc in the game has a sound or graphical cue on your character itself, i.e. PPA makes your character laugh and puts a fiery shield around you.

 

The poster was referring to such an effect, which Flame Barrage, Charged Gauntlets (it will in 1.2) and Prototype Flame Thrower, which could benefit from this type of effect at 5 stacks, do not yet possess.

 

Visual Icon ideas:

 

PFT = Lights your character on fire with flames leaping out around (not too much to actually block your view, butit would rock to have it look like flames coming out of your arms or feet. Along with the Maniacal laugh.

 

Flame Barrage = A simple red glow would do wonders along with a oh yeah!

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on my sniper I like to harass people with CC, Root them in place for 5 seconds, if they pop a CC break, throw the Flashbang on them (8 seconds) then right when they come out, root them again for 5 seconds, If it's huttball, stand near ledge so you can punt them off for 5 more seconds after that ..

 

every time I do that, I end up with people raging at me and chasing me around the entire match.

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on my sniper I like to harass people with CC, Root them in place for 5 seconds, if they pop a CC break, throw the Flashbang on them (8 seconds) then right when they come out, root them again for 5 seconds, If it's huttball, stand near ledge so you can punt them off for 5 more seconds after that ..

 

every time I do that, I end up with people raging at me and chasing me around the entire match.

 

I hate you already. My favorite thing to do to a sniper is to Electrocute, get right up on them pop HO and PFT their face. Watch them waste their CC than turn to run. Grapple them back and burn their face in while laughing like a maniac. I hate Snipers with full CC.

 

My personal best is when a sniper is harrassing someone in Huttball, is as soon as they stand grapple them down and then laugh as they freak out.

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on my sniper I like to harass people with CC, Root them in place for 5 seconds, if they pop a CC break, throw the Flashbang on them (8 seconds) then right when they come out, root them again for 5 seconds, If it's huttball, stand near ledge so you can punt them off for 5 more seconds after that ..

 

every time I do that, I end up with people raging at me and chasing me around the entire match.

 

I found that the non-RS AP spec works much better against snipers/gunslingers than the various PT specs I've used.

 

With regards to the flame barrage activation, I do mean a cue on the character. They could just use the same one that is used for RS (laugh and flame ring) and I would be happy.

Edited by gravioli
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Day 1 Conclusion:

 

It’s a significantly different playstyle than Pyro, not easier or more skilled just different

 

so im assuming the rotation doesnt make pyro easier then ap?

 

actually im a idiot.apparently the rotation i was looking at had the same skills listed twice.whoever made the sithwarrior guide needs to be kicked in the head

Edited by CrunkShizzle
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so im assuming the rotation doesnt make pyro easier then ap?

 

actually im a idiot.apparently the rotation i was looking at had the same skills listed twice.whoever made the sithwarrior guide needs to be kicked in the head

 

Zeoller said the same thing, he said in more then one interview that the stuff there was so wrong they laughed about it in the office.

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I would just like to thank the point out to the Non RS build. I mean in 1.2 I'll have to figure out where to get 4 points so I get the slow on RB, but leaving RS out and RB out except on stealthers is awesome.

 

My FB crits for 3k+, carbonize 3 and PFT critting for 2.8 1.6 normal is great and that's not even popping relics. Normally can't take on 3v1, i'll kill 1 or 2 but the 3rd will get me. Last night did it 4 times leaving RS/RB out. PFT all 3 kills 1-2 and severierly brings down the 3rd.

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I would just like to thank the point out to the Non RS build. I mean in 1.2 I'll have to figure out where to get 4 points so I get the slow on RB, but leaving RS out and RB out except on stealthers is awesome.

 

My FB crits for 3k+, carbonize 3 and PFT critting for 2.8 1.6 normal is great and that's not even popping relics. Normally can't take on 3v1, i'll kill 1 or 2 but the 3rd will get me. Last night did it 4 times leaving RS/RB out. PFT all 3 kills 1-2 and severierly brings down the 3rd.

 

Honestly a 30% slow probably still isn't worth the 4+ points. The more I play non-RS spec the less I want to have to spend any points there.

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Unfotunately it looks like to get the slow you will have to get charged gauntlets. In 1.2 our spammable snare will be linked to the rail shot ability. Which means in order to go with a non-RS build we will have to spend a minimum of two points in RB and 1 point in RS buff. If you want the spammable snare, you will have to go with a RB/RS build.

 

Personally, I went back to AP the last few days, and the more I get used to it the stronger it seems. The non-RS build is very nice for pvp. The FB x5 spam is a bit boring, but there is suddenly burst where before I was complaining about it.

 

I did find out while running a FP last night, that AP can overheat. If you don't weave in your Free RP's or hit Rapid Shots if you are at 40 heat and PFT is coming off CD you will hit the heat wall and have to vent. haha!

 

I was at 40 heat and decided to hit PFT instead of my free RP and a Rapid shots, and I overheated haha!

 

So by the middle of the 3rd rotation in a non-RS rotation, a Rapid Shots followed by a free RP punch will be needed because you never want to hold onto 5 stacks of PFT, you should do it on the 4th stack or as soon as the fifth stack is available if you have Flame Barrage procced.

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Honestly a 30% slow probably still isn't worth the 4+ points. The more I play non-RS spec the less I want to have to spend any points there.

 

Yeah, i just think i would find the slow when they run around pillars to be nice.

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You will play worse currently because we have absolutely no ability to use it without getting absolutely wrecked in the process. Most of your pvp AP's use it as a situational ability as it's currently designed. Without playing on the pts I can't tell you how it will work in 1.2, but a self rooting channeled aoe will be significantly better than the current one.

 

I'll rephrase what I previously said- this is the difference between playing the spec for a long time and someone who's played it a lot longer than three days.

 

The weakest WZ for AP / Tactic damage is Huttball. You can still do well in damage if you want, but HO / HtL is so dominating for positioning and running, you are probably hurting your team by doing so. This is the only WZ I consistently run Ion Cell. I play with a Sage healer, Watchman Sentinel, and Focus Guardian running Soresu. If you have the ball and are resolved in mid, it is an automatic cap if you have CDs up and you get Transcendence. You are immune to all forms of CC / movement imparing effects. Activate Reactive Shield, HO / HtL, and run. You will cap virtually every single time. You will out run everyone, you cannot be stopped.

 

Voidstar is like being a kid in a candy shop with a million dollar gift card. The structure of the map naturally funnels people into clusters. If you can't consistently get full channel FT / PCs, you are a bad player or need more practice or your team is running the epic fail split door strat. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There is not enough room for the other team to fan out if your team zergs a door. My group is AoE heavy. We pretty much always break 70 kills and frequently border or break 100. A very important side benefit to the AoE here is its disruptive nature. People will figure out what you are doing. They will frequently immediately stop what they are doing and disperse if they see you. This does make it marginally harder to tag them but not much. You have Harpoon. You have Neural Surge. I have 2 people with knock backs who use them to herd. The Guardian has an AoE stun. You can use the pillars to ambush people. There is a ~1-1.5ish delay before the attack graphic. If you initiate out of LOS, there is minimal response time.

 

Civil War's structure is not as friendly as Voidstar but opportunites present themselves frequently. When people zerg a point, Pulse Cannon really shines. Fighting on the point is frequently dense but proper positioning is harder to achieve. In Voidstar, movement is much more predictable. Here it is substantially less predictable as there is a vertical component to consider. It's harder to position yourself here to avoid random AoE knockbacks as well when not at Mid. Mid, especially at the start if the other team pushes it, is much more similar to Voidstar.

 

Other random notes-

1.) Yes, the spec is broken. I was hoping people would never mention that the Pulse Generator buff worked on all AoE. I have broken 4k on a Mortar Strike before on someone under geared. I frequently break 3250.

2.) Fire Pulse crits significantly harder than HIB / RS. I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise. It's confusing to me.

3.) You can run HEC and it is MUCH better for the spec. You also run Ion Cell better than a deep Tactics / Pyro build.

4.) Single target burst is good. No, nothing compares to the stellar alignment that produces triple proc, triple crit HIBs / RSs. Tactics has very predictable (on our end, not target) and controlled burst.

5.) Tactics must be regeared. Accuracy is meaningless and a completely wasted stat. You must mod out of this as fast as possible.

6.) Tactics has two completely different playstyles, both of which must be learned if you want to play the spec effectively. One is for AoE and one for single target. AoE is played at the 10m range and completely positioning dependent. Single target is melee and may actually use HIB.

7.) Consumables / Offensive CDs must be managed much more carefully. They will frequently double the total damage of a Pulse Cannon. When you use them, you want that to be a really good Pulse Cannon. You don't want to whiff with it or have it interupted because you used it incompetently. Sure, it might be interupted, but you don't want that to happen because of poor play on your part. A power relic, +25% crit buff, and a power / expertise adrenal 5x FT / PC has the power to virtually annihilate another team. If you can get an effective Mortar Strike in before it with buffs up, the two AoEs will kill anyone caught in it. This is extremely situational and you probably aren't going to get it off in anything but Voidstar on a big respawn or on a diffuse zerg.

 

**Important note on Pulse Cannon usage: there are a lot of classes that have channels that go uninterupted. You can be shut down. This goes unsaid. However, if a team devotes the resources to shut you down, they aren't shutting down someone else and HO / HtL can be used very effectively to minimize our vulnerability to being tunneled. If you are being tunneled, you are also just a good AoE stun away from turning the tables. The more you play with the spec, the easier it is to get off good FT / PCs because you will learn and start automatically doing things that minimize the chance of an interupt. FT / PC has a 10m range while AoE stuns and knockbacks have an 8m range. You'll start to learn which players will immediately respond with a knockback and position them outside of the range when HtL isn't up. Consular / Inquisitor knockbacks has a long animation time. They will rarely interupt a FT / PC they don't see coming. If possible, never use the ability infront of someone with an interupt. Every fraction of a second matter and forcing them to turn around decreases the time they have to interupt especially if they don't have you targeted as targeting is very poor in this game. Minimize LOS exposure when possible when starting the channel. In my experience, the single most common interupt I run into is Force Leap. There are a lot of small things you can do that greatly enhance the probability of not having the channel broken.

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Unfotunately it looks like to get the slow you will have to get charged gauntlets. In 1.2 our spammable snare will be linked to the rail shot ability. Which means in order to go with a non-RS build we will have to spend a minimum of two points in RB and 1 point in RS buff. If you want the spammable snare, you will have to go with a RB/RS build.

 

Personally, I went back to AP the last few days, and the more I get used to it the stronger it seems. The non-RS build is very nice for pvp. The FB x5 spam is a bit boring, but there is suddenly burst where before I was complaining about it.

 

I did find out while running a FP last night, that AP can overheat. If you don't weave in your Free RP's or hit Rapid Shots if you are at 40 heat and PFT is coming off CD you will hit the heat wall and have to vent. haha!

 

I was at 40 heat and decided to hit PFT instead of my free RP and a Rapid shots, and I overheated haha!

 

So by the middle of the 3rd rotation in a non-RS rotation, a Rapid Shots followed by a free RP punch will be needed because you never want to hold onto 5 stacks of PFT, you should do it on the 4th stack or as soon as the fifth stack is available if you have Flame Barrage procced.

 

But if you time vent heat on boss fights it's very hard to overheat without rapid shots/RP. I'm not even spec'd into free RP. Spamming FB/PFT/Immolate, well timed vent, never have to use Rapid shots. Just did NNM EV in AP first time I didn't spec back to Pyro for raid in awhile. Did amazingly well IMO. I killed my guy 3rd, max HP, 2nd max HP, the other was one of the tank HP ones. Which in my raid is typical when I'm pyro. So they are about same to me.

 

Anyways nice post, was on AP bandwagon for PvP but liking it more for PVE now.

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I'll rephrase what I previously said- this is the difference between playing the spec for a long time and someone who's played it a lot longer than three days.

 

The weakest WZ for AP / Tactic damage is Huttball. You can still do well in damage if you want, but HO / HtL is so dominating for positioning and running, you are probably hurting your team by doing so. This is the only WZ I consistently run Ion Cell. I play with a Sage healer, Watchman Sentinel, and Focus Guardian running Soresu. If you have the ball and are resolved in mid, it is an automatic cap if you have CDs up and you get Transcendence. You are immune to all forms of CC / movement imparing effects. Activate Reactive Shield, HO / HtL, and run. You will cap virtually every single time. You will out run everyone, you cannot be stopped.

 

Voidstar is like being a kid in a candy shop with a million dollar gift card. The structure of the map naturally funnels people into clusters. If you can't consistently get full channel FT / PCs, you are a bad player or need more practice or your team is running the epic fail split door strat. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There is not enough room for the other team to fan out if your team zergs a door. My group is AoE heavy. We pretty much always break 70 kills and frequently border or break 100. A very important side benefit to the AoE here is its disruptive nature. People will figure out what you are doing. They will frequently immediately stop what they are doing and disperse if they see you. This does make it marginally harder to tag them but not much. You have Harpoon. You have Neural Surge. I have 2 people with knock backs who use them to herd. The Guardian has an AoE stun. You can use the pillars to ambush people. There is a ~1-1.5ish delay before the attack graphic. If you initiate out of LOS, there is minimal response time.

 

Civil War's structure is not as friendly as Voidstar but opportunites present themselves frequently. When people zerg a point, Pulse Cannon really shines. Fighting on the point is frequently dense but proper positioning is harder to achieve. In Voidstar, movement is much more predictable. Here it is substantially less predictable as there is a vertical component to consider. It's harder to position yourself here to avoid random AoE knockbacks as well when not at Mid. Mid, especially at the start if the other team pushes it, is much more similar to Voidstar.

 

Other random notes-

1.) Yes, the spec is broken. I was hoping people would never mention that the Pulse Generator buff worked on all AoE. I have broken 4k on a Mortar Strike before on someone under geared. I frequently break 3250.

2.) Fire Pulse crits significantly harder than HIB / RS. I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise. It's confusing to me.

3.) You can run HEC and it is MUCH better for the spec. You also run Ion Cell better than a deep Tactics / Pyro build.

4.) Single target burst is good. No, nothing compares to the stellar alignment that produces triple proc, triple crit HIBs / RSs. Tactics has very predictable (on our end, not target) and controlled burst.

5.) Tactics must be regeared. Accuracy is meaningless and a completely wasted stat. You must mod out of this as fast as possible.

6.) Tactics has two completely different playstyles, both of which must be learned if you want to play the spec effectively. One is for AoE and one for single target. AoE is played at the 10m range and completely positioning dependent. Single target is melee and may actually use HIB.

7.) Consumables / Offensive CDs must be managed much more carefully. They will frequently double the total damage of a Pulse Cannon. When you use them, you want that to be a really good Pulse Cannon. You don't want to whiff with it or have it interupted because you used it incompetently. Sure, it might be interupted, but you don't want that to happen because of poor play on your part. A power relic, +25% crit buff, and a power / expertise adrenal 5x FT / PC has the power to virtually annihilate another team. If you can get an effective Mortar Strike in before it with buffs up, the two AoEs will kill anyone caught in it. This is extremely situational and you probably aren't going to get it off in anything but Voidstar on a big respawn or on a diffuse zerg.

 

**Important note on Pulse Cannon usage: there are a lot of classes that have channels that go uninterupted. You can be shut down. This goes unsaid. However, if a team devotes the resources to shut you down, they aren't shutting down someone else and HO / HtL can be used very effectively to minimize our vulnerability to being tunneled. If you are being tunneled, you are also just a good AoE stun away from turning the tables. The more you play with the spec, the easier it is to get off good FT / PCs because you will learn and start automatically doing things that minimize the chance of an interupt. FT / PC has a 10m range while AoE stuns and knockbacks have an 8m range. You'll start to learn which players will immediately respond with a knockback and position them outside of the range when HtL isn't up. Consular / Inquisitor knockbacks has a long animation time. They will rarely interupt a FT / PC they don't see coming. If possible, never use the ability infront of someone with an interupt. Every fraction of a second matter and forcing them to turn around decreases the time they have to interupt especially if they don't have you targeted as targeting is very poor in this game. Minimize LOS exposure when possible when starting the channel. In my experience, the single most common interupt I run into is Force Leap. There are a lot of small things you can do that greatly enhance the probability of not having the channel broken.

 

I would have to agree with 100% of this. Only reason my Combat tech still has accuracy in it, is I had the eliminator PvP set for Pyro, since RS proc's like always. In that set, I had ripped out all accuracy and replaced with power/surge. As I've slowly been able to get my Combat Tech (stopped PvP'ing to level alts) from boxes, with 1.2 coming I felt not the need to replace them as I want them to upgrade properly and in 1.2 the expertise will outway the crap that is accuracy.

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