Let´s be honest. SWTOR is pretty solid MMO arround.

[Shingara]

What are you talking about?

 

Because I am talking about Classic/TBC

 

Have you done the Onyxia Lair key quest?

UBRS Key?

AQ Scepter?

 

Phasing didn't come into play until WOTLK? And by then there weren't many group quests left at all anyway..

 

sorry to let you in on this little insider secret but an expantion is something beyond the original game, now your upto date. And i would put the key and attune quests as great quests, i would say the king quests were good and im not knocking the wow classic q's and class quests cos i loved them so much i had loremaster on 3 chars.

 

But the group stuff was more or less decimated by bliz and destroyed the feel of things like the strat/baron 45 when they were not improved and those thoughts carried on and it became instant gratification and faction farming.

 

Tbc became a faction grind and wrath was just a joke on epic scale with all the phasing.

 

And i doubt things are going to get better there, the original design team split up, part created hellgate and the other lot moved to titan and have just been chucked out of the building.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Shingara

[Nemmar]

For me the reason SWTOr is solid is the combat. Despite all the QQ's about combat delays in the past, the fact is the combat is loads of fun.

 

Its in that aspect that it overcomes every other MMO, especially WoW.

Voice overs are just a conviniece that wont be properly recognised until players go back to the MMO's that dont have it and notice they know nothing or care about whats going on. They are just grinding.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Nemmar

[Tyraelium]

sorry to let you in on this little insider secret but an expantion is something beyond the original game, now your upto date. And i would put the key and attune quests as great quests, i would say the king quests were good and im not knocking the wow classic q's cos i loved them so much i had loremaster on 3 chars but the group stuff was more or less decimated by bliz and destroyed the feel of things like the strat/baron 45 were not improved and those thoughts carried on and it became instant gratification.

 

True, misuse of 'expansion' I guess, should've said 'generation'. Even in TBC, I enjoyed the group quests in Outland and the various reps you could work on as a group, and various mini-bosses in each zone (I did most of 'em all with guildies).

 

I believe the group quests concept was dropped because of outcry from the community, and the preference to turn everyone towards just doing dailies. Also, WoW kind of offered too many ways to gain experience, so it gradually became harder and harder to find people for group quests because they were running dungeons, PvPing, or just in a different zone instead. It would make sense for all of Outland or Northrend to share a general chat now, just like SWTOR has planet-wide chat.

[Shingara]

True, misuse of 'expansion' I guess, should've said 'generation'. Even in TBC, I enjoyed the group quests in Outland and the various reps you could work on as a group, and various mini-bosses in each zone (I did most of 'em all with guildies).

 

I believe the group quests concept was dropped because of outcry from the community, and the preference to turn everyone towards just doing dailies. Also, WoW kind of offered too many ways to gain experience, so it gradually became harder and harder to find people for group quests because they were running dungeons, PvPing, or just in a different zone instead. It would make sense for all of Outland or Northrend to share a general chat now, just like SWTOR has planet-wide chat.

 

I can see where you come from when it comes to outcry of the community but i think that was more down to a vast majority of the playerbase seeing the top % of hardcores on there server running around with thunderfury and were jealous.

 

Twas no reason to totaly remove the tiered content that was perfectly fine nor the idea of dungeon sets and challanges for casual players, it set a bad trend in mmos that time invested meant nothing, it might have taken people longer to get to top end but eventualy everyone would have gotten there as its not like you had to invest your life into the activity of raiding.

 

I think wow decimated the meaning of a community within mmos too, the rdf is a cool thing and helps alot but it insulated people within a set group of small players, once upon a time you truly created pugs and made new friends that way even if it did take a bit longer, you couldnt really be a douche nor a ninja but look at where we are today there and the impact it has had not only on patience of players but also the feel of what a community actually is.

 

Cos its damn hard to find people todo stuff just for the challange and the fun of it and not for an upgrade to make yourself that little bit no matter how tiny more powerful.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Shingara

[Ivanblood]

For me the reason SWTOr is solid is the combat. Despite all the QQ's about combat delays in the past, the fact is the combat is loads of fun.

 

Its in that aspect that it overcomes every other MMO, especially WoW.

Voice overs are just a conviniece that wont be properly recognised until players go back to the MMO's that dont have it and notice they know nothing or care about whats going on. They are just grinding.

 

THIS. Totally agree.

[Lokai]

For me the reason SWTOr is solid is the combat. Despite all the QQ's about combat delays in the past, the fact is the combat is loads of fun.

 

Its in that aspect that it overcomes every other MMO, especially WoW.

Voice overs are just a conviniece that wont be properly recognised until players go back to the MMO's that dont have it and notice they know nothing or care about whats going on. They are just grinding.

 

weird... i find combat boring and dull click fest... nothing actiony about it, just WoW combat minus auto attack. Seriously combat is probably WORST thing in the whole game, throw in whole " samey " feel many classes have since, ALL have a 4 second stun, some channeled effect heck! Merc/Sorc almost play EXACT same way! spam channeled effect! go! have almost exact same attacks almost copy and pastes of one another...

 

Combat in TOR is nothing to brag about, its pretty solid over all and not terrible but certainly not the games selling quality.

[Dreossk]

When you played Champions Online and Age of Conan you can't really be impressed by SWTOR's combat, they are way behind in that aspect too. And for the guy that says they delivered exactly the game they advertised, it's a mistake. They promised every expected AAA MMO feature and yet we don't have 1/4 of it. Edited April 7, 2012 by Dreossk

[Braaaiins]

1. No end content for 50s.

 

Well... the solution here is just...waiting untill a new big expansion is released. Many 50s will unsubscribe for sure, but new players will come eventually too. SWTOR is one of the most friendly communities arroud, and very perfect for the people who want to try theirselves in a new genre. I was one of them.

 

Certainly 1.7 million population will drop to, let´s say, 1 million eventually. But still 1 million is good number for a starter MMO. Actually this reflects the real worth of SWTOR, not the hyped one. And it´s more than enough to keep the game alive and Bioware happy. And this number, 1 million, will be steady with all ebbs and flows of subscriptions untill a new new big full expansion comes out. After that, the community may be expanded to a few more servers and again stay static.

 

 

But SWTOR holds monopoly on ScFi and SW, so a good chunk of players will stay with SWTOR .[/color]

 

WoW's first expansion was 3 years AFTER the relase.. good luck spending 450 dollars waiting.

[Jett-Rinn]

When you played Champions Online and Age of Conan you can't really be impressed by SWTOR's combat, they are way behind in that aspect too.

 

ROTFLMAO

 

Oh you're serious....

[eyeofvecna]

PVP is the only thing keeping me subbed to this game. It's not bad.

 

The PVE is dreadful. Questing as I level is almost unbearable. Voice over is an utter waste aside from the class quests. Your boring, uncreative game and horrible level design aren't made more interesting by 30 seconds of forgettable dialog in a british accent. Spacebar spacebar spacebar.

 

I'm pretty sure I saw more convincing mob AI in Everquest 1.

 

Pretty hilarious how much of this game is copied directly from WoW. 31 point talents. Really? You couldn't even bother to construct the trees in even a slightly different way? 25 quest limit. Couldn't make it 20, or 30, or 40 to at least make it look like you're trying? How much money and time did you have to make this game? lol.

 

Copying and pasting the same station for both Imperial and Republic fleet is another brilliant design decision. Stormwind and Orgrimmar compared to Republic and Imperial Fleet? Don't make me laugh.

 

Barely hanging on. I would like this game to succeed, but good luck redesigning the bulk of the game world to actually make it interesting to explore.

Edited April 7, 2012 by eyeofvecna

[Lt_Latency]

Good game,

 

But it needs more content NOW!!! World is setup to be separate and give little to no rewards and Ilum is basically a right off.

 

So all we have is 3 soon to be 4 warzones.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[wifeaggro]

ROTFLMAO

 

Oh you're serious....

 

TOR leaves alot to be deisred its no where near a true MMO. its a great single player game with multi play options. AOC was a true MMO with full feature sets guild features and PVP features. World desgin hid instancing much better but it was very buggy to put it lightly and unplayable for some. TOR released functional and polished yes but its not a MMO in the way a portion of the Veteran community thinks of them. TOR has some great things but its lacking in the department of multiplayer immersion.

Edited April 7, 2012 by wifeaggro

[Jett-Rinn]

TOR leaves alot to be deisred its no where near a true MMO. its a great single player game with multi play options. AOC was a true MMO with full feature sets guild features and PVP features. World desgin hid instancing much better but it was very buggy to put it lightly and unplayable for some. TOR released functional and polished yes but its not a MMO in the way a portion of the Veteran community thinks of them. TOR has some great things but its lacking in the department of multiplayer immersion.

 

Thank you for that: "No true Scotsman" fallacy; personally I could care less if TOR is a MMO a RTS or a duck named Jo-Jo I'm having a blast as is everyone in my growing guild.

[Pregzuel]

i love what you say about Tera HA you couldnt be more wrong

 

its like WOW pokemon? umm yeah and whats SWTOR like.

WOW IN SPACE?

 

 

THis game is awful

fun Single player yes..

 

but as an MMO its no where near the hype it was made!

[Typheran]

WORLD PVP WRITTEN OUT OF THE GAME

-lower levels will NEVER see each other except in warzones

(It makes no sense why this was made this way)

-faction only planets. (Horrible idea)

-Ilum pushed to the extreme back burner

-No world objectives

-No global warnings if you attack a enemy town.

 

POOR CLASS BALANCE

-Nerfs are nonsensical

-lots of utility for some, none for others.

-everyone being able to do similar damage while giving only some of those classes survivability and utility.

-Because of the horrid imbalances.. It's hard to get excited in a pvp match because you know.. there is NO way to beat certain classes.

-Rated will only make this worse.

 

CLASS BASED WARZONES

-Huttball is one of the biggest jokes in a pvp game. Soo class dependant. Sure you can still win if they are bad, but it's a uphill fight.

-Bad match making happens way too much because of low server populations

-having matches without a healer because of match making = lose in maps like voidstar

-Rated will only make this worse.

 

LOW SERVER POPULATIONS

-finding a group for flashpoints is impossible. I have two level 50's and Never ran a flashpoint until level 50.

-World PVP is none existent

-No LFG tool. Really? This is a rookie mistake. this should have been in BETA.

 

RESOLVE SYSTEM IS BAD

-No diminishing returns on snare

-roots ARE CC to melee, but it doesn't effect resolve

-No feedback on the topic of PVP.

-CC Stacking abilities.. EX: knockback + Root = Bad idea.

-Waaaaay too much CC. People spam them because they are too plentiful.

-Resolve drains too fast. 6 sec is nothing in a fight. It shouldn't drain while you are in combat.

 

ROLLER COASTER SPACE COMBAT

(You had two know this was a crappy idea)

-No one likes flying on rails.

-No multiplayer space combat. .. But then again how boring would it be for two people to be in the same roller coaster.

 

 

BAD CS

-Getting generic responses that don't even fit the question asked is insulting.

[Gorrdan]

TOR leaves alot to be deisred its no where near a true MMO. its a great single player game with multi play options. AOC was a true MMO with full feature sets guild features and PVP features. World desgin hid instancing much better but it was very buggy to put it lightly and unplayable for some. TOR released functional and polished yes but its not a MMO in the way a portion of the Veteran community thinks of them. TOR has some great things but its lacking in the department of multiplayer immersion.

 

Awesome another individual with his own definition of what is a MMO. These definitions change so much everyday that i can't even take it seriously anymore.

 

I doubt you even know what is a true MMO if you think AOC is more of a MMO than TOR. hahahaha!!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Jett-Rinn]

Awesome another individual with his own definition of what is a MMO. These definitions change so much everyday that i can't even take it seriously anymore.

 

I doubt you even know what a true MMOS.

 

No true Scotsman would ever think TOR is a real MMO!!

[Ivanblood]

WoW's first expansion was 3 years AFTER the relase.. good luck spending 450 dollars waiting.

 

Spending 450 dolls playing other games ? Sure. I never said that you have to pay the subscription untill a new expansion is released.

[Darth_Victus]

In my own opinion I am having a great time playing the different classes and even though I am going through the same planets it still feels different because of the different class stories.

 

Now given the world quest arcs can feel boring after the second or third alt.

 

As with any game, SWTOR will have its ups and downs; pros and cons.

 

But this game has had one of the best launches I have been apart of in a long time. Yes it's going to have it's issues but given time, it will grow and improve.

[Ivanblood]

Fatman. I am Sniper 31. Yesterday, I hunted down and killed 8 republicans while I was questing the Bonus series of Nar Shaddaa. 8, by myself, a few more while going in group.

 

2 of them, level 35.

One I caught while he just finished killing the mob. Her mistake was that she decided to flee and not confront me. She was slighly low on health. At the ende , we were playing cat-mouse for 15 mins. She trying to outrun me, while I slowing her down with probes to break the distance and shooting at her back. That was epic Benny Hill-style fight. Once she even managed to break the fighting slow down but commited a mistake and I quickly catched her in my hover bike. Finally she faced me and I finished her off with a stub.

 

Another dude, was questing in the imperial preason. I attacked him, when I started loosing, because he was 35,I tricked him drawing him toward imperial mob. He fell for this alerting four 31-level imperial guards.

 

Then I spend another hour harassing a group of 21-24 level republican group while they were trying to get a datacron:D

 

At the end, I killed at least 8 republicans by myself.

 

A few times, I and another guy had to flee from 50s They were stalking us not allowing to complete a heroic.

 

A few times I had to run from a retaliation group for killing those 8 republicans.

 

At the end, I responded a call for help 21+level guy who was trapped in a 31-level arrea trying to get a datacron. I teamed up with him and one 50 who was passing by to search for the datacron for ourselves. We had to repel 3 republican attacks while passing through republican territory.

 

And to carry out all this, I had to chat and meet people.

With no LFG tool, SWTOR is more MMO than WoW .

 

If it´s not a true MMO experience for you then you are dead inside.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Ivanblood

[thornka]

 

If it´s not a true MMO experience for you than you are dead inside.

 

Or not playing on Fatman.

[FalcoLombardi]

Ok...Now lets check briefly the main competitors of SWTOR.

 

I will put them in groups-

 

1. WoW. Terra. GW2

 

Here comes the biggest flaw of this trio. They are not ScFI. This is it. SWTOR already reserved for itself a big chunk of players. I know a lot of people who scpecifically need light sabers, blasters and and tech stuff, they will not come back to sword, shield and magic again.

 

WoW.

 

The people who still playing it will keep playing it. No big loss. The people who stopped playing it will not come back because of Pandas. WoW population will drop eventually to some 7-8 milllions. But WoW will keep the biggest population arround.

 

It will not affect SWTOR population at all. If you like Star Wars, you will like Star Wars. No pandas will change that. Besides new WoW expansion is all about the same. The same everything. Totally not ground breaking or innovative.

 

Terra.

 

Its like WoW but with Pokemons. Yes, and a better combat. The rest is the same: NPCs with excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers.

 

If you like Korean MMOs with pokemons go and try it, but people who are into Star Wars and ScFi will not follow you.

 

GW2.

 

Well it´s the strongest competitor. But is it really so ground breaking ? I watch so many video and read so many previews about it.

 

The main atraction is World vs World vs World. Yep. Cool stuff. Indeed

 

The graphical presntation is awesome. Yes

 

The combat is new and fresh. Yep yep

 

Its flaws.

 

It keeps being like WoW. Yes...more mature...better combat...choices affect the world but...NPCs have excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers, killing stuff by hundreds. Completely false. Wow's combat is more like TOR's from what I've read. NPCs have exclamations over their heads in TOR, there is voiceover, in TOR you kill stuff by the hundreds

 

And it´s not SCFI. Sci-Fi really doesn't matter, it's a unique mideval theme

 

Equally, this one is the best looking among all competitor and I will certainly try it.

 

2. Secret World.

 

A very shady horse. It may be a great success or another Age of Connan.

 

Its flaws.

 

It has standard WoW-like mechanics. No groundbeaking there.

Graphically it didn´t impress me.

Secret World lore must compete against STAR WARS. Every new lore has a huge risk to suck. This is a fact. Check the Kindoms of Amalur.

 

Well. This is it. This thread is subjected to further updates.

Update 1:

 

I am not saying that SWTOR is the best MMO ever. I am not bashing GW2, Tera, and Secret World.

 

But I just point to your attention that none of the upcomming MMOs will be ground breaking. They will not be enourmously superior to SWTOR, but only in some aspects, and in other aspects SWTOR will be better. This is it.

 

At the end, what MMO to play will depend on your fancies, there will not be a clear winner.

 

If you like swords and magic, you will certainly move to WoW, Terra or GW2. SWTOR just doesn´t have all allures to keep everyone.

 

But SWTOR holds monopoly on ScFi and SW, so a good chunk of players will stay with SWTOR .

 

Replies to GW2 in green

[Ivanblood]

Or not playing on Fatman.

 

Touché

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[Typheran]

Interesting how many times, people will think an argument only works one way.

 

This game was advertised as a story driven MMO. Many hate the cutscenes, story emphasis, and go (as per posts on THIS thread even)…

 

“Stupid waste of money on VO. Spacebar. Spacebar. Spacebar. Hate the VO. Linear. All that money could have been used on PVE / PVP gameplay.” (paraphrased by me)

 

…and disregard the split focus BW said they’d do (Story and MMO, 2 different styles). Fine. I’m in.

 

I’m saying, honestly (call me a troll if you want… labels don’t scare me)…

 

“Stupid waste of money on PVE-group and PVP. Hate the group/raid gameplay. Hate the ranking / WZ / open world. All that money could have been used on more single player KOTOR-3.”

 

Done. I could easily say that I don’t care that they said it’s an MMO (just like many don’t care that it’s story driven; they can pick and choose, so can I), and I’ll totally support any direction for more instancing, more chapters, and so on. That’s what I honestly want. I’m comfortable with the fact you don’t believe me.

 

And, to the doomsayers, I hope you’re right.

 

Server populations dropping, ability latency, group bugs, raid bugs, heck, if the game went F2P in 2 days (making the latter up), or most other doom and gloom, assuming totally correct… would affect my play…exactly… zero. TOR Inertia favours the KOTOR-3 players... sorry... but that's how it is.

 

What does affect my play is all this development money going to a part that I don’t like (PVE-group and PVP content) is a waste of my money.

 

Will the fact that my “Stop wasting money on PVE-Group / PVP” opinion, which is just that, an opinion, is, to my understanding, the exact opposite mirror image of the “Stop wasting money on VO” crowd, get equal weight? I sincerely doubt it.

 

People have said “The number of players that PVP here in TOR is much bigger than you think.” Possibly very true.

 

I say “The number of players that only want KOTOR-3 here in TOR is much bigger than you think.” Also, possibly very true.

 

One shouldn’t trump the other, but if people want to feedback to lower the VO / Single player emphasis, I’ll have to put my vote in to lower the PVE-Group / PVP even more than it already is (if that's even possible, based on the posts here).

 

You’re not here for VO / KOTOR-3 despite BW says story… fine. Your call.

 

I’m not here for PVE-Group / PVP despite BW says MMO… fine. MY call.

 

If I don’t feel I get a sense of compromise, I will not give one back, even if the above is all in my head / strawman / illogical / or whatever the comment can be…

 

Gabe Amatangelo stated there would be 100 vs 100 battles.

 

Don't get me wrong the solo PVE isn't bad, infact.. it's good. Sadly, it's fleeting once you have a couple of level 50's.

 

The reason I, and most people from reading the forums are disruntled is anything to do with the rest of the game.

 

No LFG tool? Really? this should have been in BETA. Never runing a FP until level 50 is lame.

 

Horrid space mission. Who really likes roller coaster arcade games?

 

World PVP is non-existent. It has been writen out of the game by bad design. Separated leveling worlds, no incentives to balance the factions. No world objectives.. just poorly designed instanced warzones.

 

I was promised grand 100 vs 100 battles.... the most rebs in one spot I've seen in the world has been 7, and they quickly died and never came back.

 

My server is near death... finding FP groups at level 50 is very hard now. My guild is dying off... So I pay to play a single player game each month.

 

Single player isn't the problem. It's the utter failure of multiplayer in this game.