Pvp imbalence from the perspective of a Sin.

[Sinemetu]

Let's talk about the defensive CDs of Infiltration/Operative:

 

Operative gets:

100% Dodge for 3 seconds on a 60/45 second cooldown.

Shadow Gets:

100% Immunity to force/tech attacks for 3 seconds on a 60 second cooldown.

Operative Clearly the winner here.

 

Um... what? Do you have any idea how evasion works? You only dodge autoattacks with it. How is that better than an ability that makes you immune to everything BUT autoattacks? You can avoid thousands of points of damage in that time period. The abilities aren't even worth comparing except that both remove all dots and are basically required if you want to stealth in combat. Force shroud works better for that, too, since it prevents new dots whereas evasion doesn't.

 

Operative gets:

Shield Probe absorbs 2000 damage, 45/30 second cooldown.

Shadow gets:

50% dodge for 12 seconds on a 120 second cooldown.

Here an operative is guaranteed 7-8k damage reduction (with talents), in the same time period a shadow will probably dodge 63% of attacks, with an average damage hit of say 1200?

1v1 for 12 seconds, oponent doing 1200 damage every 1.5 seconds (GCD) = 9600 damage done in a period of 12 seconds against the Shadow.

63% of that number and we have our average for what our defense bubble absorbs.

9600 x .63 = 6048 damage (on average) (Could be +/- 2k damage.)

Operative wins here in reliability.

 

/shrug. It's a weak CD on a short timer. Over time, yes, it looks better, but when you're getting focused, 2k health is nothing. There's a lot of value in having a much stronger CD for when you really need it rather than a speedbump every few fights. For reference, the sorc bubble heals for 25% more (with no healing talents) and can be cast on yourself more than 3x as often.

 

Ontop of this ops have the following things that can be used in a defensive way:

AOE Mez

In combat heals

10% more damage reduction (armor)

 

Flashbang is much harder to use than the knockback and is often less valuable. Additionally, you can use it twice as often. In-combat heals are the next best thing to a joke--they're only useful for saving yourself from a dot in that brief period before you leave combat again. That's assuming you don't have a healer. 10% more armor? I bet a lot of operatives would trade that in a heartbeat for a sprint, a ranged stun (!), and another in-combat CC like y'all get.

 

Infiltrations weak defense in comparison is balanced out by a 2 second sprint, a knockback, and some taunts (useless 1v1)

 

You seem to really be harping on this 1v1. I'm starting to wonder exactly what you do in WZs that make you concerned about this issue. I've PvPed a fair bit, and assassin medals are pretty rare if you're not going off trying to pick solo fights. If you're doing that, you're bad. The fact of the matter is that most combat happens in groups of 2-4, and taunts are very valuable in that setting--and weak in-combat healing is not. A sprint is very valuable in every warzone, as it allows you to get to doors to cap faster, run through fires with the ball, and assist another node more quickly. Knockbacks can kill people or cripple a ball carrier in huttball.

 

You know, I've been over to the assassin forums, and a lot of people there seem to think infiltration is good and tank is overrated. I wonder if you're doing something wrong.

[Redmarx]

As a healer, I'm a lot more worried about having a dps shadow on me than I am an operative. Operative burst is overrated, and they just don't have the tools to pressure a healer and stay on target like an assassin has. As for burst, yes, operatives can burst for 5k... from stealth. I've been hit by shadows outside of stealth for the same. Mercs can do the same, and I've never seen it but I understand Juggernauts and Pyrotechs can as well.

 

Utility:

 

Assassins:

 

Base:

 

Force Shroud (3s of immunity to tech/force attacks, talented up to 5s on a 1m/45s CD)

Deflection (+50% defense for 12 seconds)

Vanish (3/2 minute cooldown)

Sprint (+150% speed for 2s on a 30s/20s talented CD)

Knockback (PBAOE on a 30s CD)

Stun (4s, 30y range, 1m/50s CD)

Spike (2s knockdown on a 30s CD, only from stealth)

Taunt, AOE Taunt (30% less damage to allies)

Sleep (10y range, 75% of resolve bar)

 

Talents:

 

Force Pull

Low Slash (4s mez on a 15s CD, single target)

 

Operatives:

 

Base:

 

Evasion (+100% chance to dodge for 2s, 1m/45s CD)

Shield Probe (Absorb ~2000 damage, 45s/30s CD)

Vanish (3/2 minute CD)

Flashbang (targeted AOE 8s mez, must be facing target, 10y range, 1m CD)

Stun (4s, 10y range, 1m/45s CD)

Sleep (10y range, fills resolve bar)

 

Talents:

 

Jarring Strike (2s knockdown, requires stealth, must be behind target)

 

Force Shroud > Shield Probe on a similar CD, and Deflection has pros and cons when compared to Evasion. I would compare Evasion to Force Shroud (both remove dots), except Force Shroud is just so much better it's really not fair.

 

Nailed it.

[Mathelia]

Nailed it.

 

well as operative you can remove dots like every what seconds? and what is sleep? never heard of sleep on my assassin ,something ive missed or?

[Darth_Acherus]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark charge gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

Quit trolling, it's getting old.

[DarkDruidSS]

The answer to all this class dmg myth crap is in 1.2. How about anyone complaining about DPS go check the parser information posted in the PTS forums. Assassins are not in the top DPS list at all. I believe we sit in the 1,600 ballpark compared to Mara/Merc/Sorc that are sitting pretty in the 1,900 ballpark.

 

The ONLY reason people complain about tankassin is because we have survivability and we have damage... NOT BURST... not even real DPS.. just damage. Our survivability in a tank spec (imagine that) allows us to stay alive to kill.

 

Not that I am advocating nerfing anyone until we have more parser info from 1.2, but marauders have better defensive cooldowns than any tank AND can do considerably more damage.

 

All you sin witch hunters are looking the wrong way. We are not the DPS class you are looking for. Hence, why you don't see ANY nerfs for sins in 1.2.

Edited April 2, 2012 by DarkDruidSS

[Payneintherear]

The answer to all this class dmg myth crap is in 1.2. How about anyone complaining about DPS go check the parser information posted in the PTS forums. Assassins are not in the top DPS list at all. I believe we sit in the 1,600 ballpark compared to Mara/Merc/Sorc that are sitting pretty in the 1,900 ballpark.

 

Mind providing a link to the parses?

[theangryllama]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

Sin's will be great in 1.2, but look how many cry posts there are already. You will be getting nerfed, before you receive anything that even looks remotely like a buff.

 

Eh the OP is focusing on the deception/infiltration specs which, while not broken, are vastly inferior to the tank specs in everything except some crazy burst.

So the spec he is talking about shouldn't be nerfed at all and will be quasi buffed by the inevitable killing of darkness/KC down to the useless level of the other non hybrid tank specs lol.

[Eaglemouse]

sins dont need ANY buffs, sins and juggs are suppose to be reflected classes. both got a dps and tank spec and alt dps spec. But the sin is miles ahead of the jugg. Hell jugs were so screwed that our version of the sin excute required 20% instead of 30%. What was the logic in that?

 

assasinate lvl 32 - requires 30% 2773

vicious throw 46 - requires 30% 3074

 

sins havent been touched b/c they dont need to be touched, all of their presumed underpoweredness, or short commings is due to other classes OPness. Once those are lost the sin wont have those to worry about. You dont buff AND nerf an aspect, either you buff OR nerf.

 

As a Sin I have to agree with the above posters. I also feel that the sin is lacking in defense (even as a tank) when you look at the other classes and the amount of damage being dished out (making stuns and other skills worth way more)

 

But I also agree these other classes that are being nerfed should happen before any change are made. How can we be balanced when the others classes that no question need it haven't been done yet. We may find that everything is already in balance.

 

People that are calling for sin nerfs should play one. Only 1 spec is maybe OP and it sure isn't on the defensive side.

 

The problem is that some classes that also dps well are allowed in some configurations to also have very good defense and Sin's are a part of that group. Sin are far from the best damage dealers (looks at ranged classes) overall in pvp anyways. But do seem to do very well one on one. I can live with that.

 

I also play a hybred because if I don't commando/bh missle spam would kill me all the time. With shield gen and good armor they leave me alone after the first try. Once this is nerfed I can maybe move more to a dps build.

 

Lets just wait and see what happens.

[HBninjaX]

lolwut? sin is ezmode

 

l2p

[Eaglemouse]

There you go. No one should ever talk to you anymore. Saying that a 30% damagedebuff is useless proves that you have no idea of pvp and no idea of your class. Please go ahead and kill yourself now. Talking to people like you is a waste of time anyway.

 

PS: Take everyone with you who believes you or says the same things.

 

Have a nice day

 

that's 30% for 6 second or of 15 second (for single target 45 for mass effect) cool down (if you could keep it up full time).

 

That's .4(up time)*30%=12% overall damage reduction if up for a full fight(they don't target you). Now 12% is a lot you also have to consider your other options like CC that give 100% damage reduction and you can dps them is far more effective no?

 

Taunt is only good when everything else is on cool down. Don't over state what taunt does. I don't use it much either other than to farm medals.

 

Ya 30% for those 6 seconds may seem like a lot, but it's not like you can keep it up and as I have shown it's only 12% in a perfect world! Considering the number of CC's the Sin has (as a tank, ie spike with pvp gear cool down on an already low timer anyone?) why anyone would use taunt is a beyound me.

[goz_-]

that's 30% for 6 second or of 15 second (for single target 45 for mass effect) cool down (if you could keep it up full time).

 

That's .4(up time)*30%=12% overall damage reduction if up for a full fight(they don't target you). Now 12% is a lot you also have to consider your other options like CC that give 100% damage reduction and you can dps them is far more effective no?

 

Taunt is only good when everything else is on cool down. Don't over state what taunt does. I don't use it much either other than to farm medals.

 

Ya 30% for those 6 seconds may seem like a lot, but it's not like you can keep it up and as I have shown it's only 12% in a perfect world! Considering the number of CC's the Sin has (as a tank, ie spike with pvp gear cool down on an already low timer anyone?) why anyone would use taunt is a beyound me.

 

Good thing that you obviously don't know that taunts don't have a gcd nor energy costs. Hell you can even use it while channeling Force Lightning or something like that. And from your comment I can guess you never played in a premade otherwise you wouldn't say such nonsense.

[Kotlx]

that's 30% for 6 second or of 15 second (for single target 45 for mass effect) cool down (if you could keep it up full time).

 

That's .4(up time)*30%=12% overall damage reduction if up for a full fight(they don't target you). Now 12% is a lot you also have to consider your other options like CC that give 100% damage reduction and you can dps them is far more effective no?

 

Taunt is only good when everything else is on cool down. Don't over state what taunt does. I don't use it much either other than to farm medals.

 

Ya 30% for those 6 seconds may seem like a lot, but it's not like you can keep it up and as I have shown it's only 12% in a perfect world! Considering the number of CC's the Sin has (as a tank, ie spike with pvp gear cool down on an already low timer anyone?) why anyone would use taunt is a beyound me.

 

This post wreaks of misinformation.

 

Taunts aren't on GCD, 12% reduction means 12% less damage the healers take. The aoe taunt alone is just brilliant. You mean the massive push on voidstar can be mitigated with a single shadow? Not to mention taunt can be used while stealthed.

 

I play a balance shadow and am rarely focused down. Taunts + pushes + Root and top it off with a guard and I am a mitigating machine. Do you know how many BM geared dps it takes to kill a guarded sage healer when they are all taunted?

 

Try applying before lone wolfing every game you play.

[Kotlx]

Tons of information that literally points to "I think this class needs to be a mirror of other classes that can stealth

 

Shadows Mirror Assassin's. Look up any decent guide to a shadow and you'll find out quickly it isn't a World of Warcraft Rogue. You aren't meant to stay in stealth. The only 2 abilities that require stealth (both of which can be spec'd to be used out of stealth) are blackout and spinning kick. If you're doing anything else in stealth in an offensive perspective, you're doing it wrong.

 

Spinning kick isn't a choice opener, but that doesn't make it useless. Fight a healer some time. (refer to force cloak)

 

Defensive cooldowns aren't meant to make a god of a player. You know why that mara/jug owned you in 1v1? You mistakenly assume 2 things.

 

1. Deflection does not mitigate 50% damage, it boosts your ranged and melee defenses by 50%. 200 defense with Deflection = 300 defense.

 

2. Refer to "It boosts your ranged and melee defenses" which means any ability that does damage outside of physical damage (White damage) isn't mitigated with this ability.

 

Juggs have only a few abilities that do damage outside the realm of physical.

 

A properly spec'd mara relies almost entirely on damage outside the realm of physical damage.

[JustTray]

Let's talk about the defensive CDs of Infiltration/Operative:

 

Operative gets:

100% Dodge for 3 seconds on a 60/45 second cooldown.

Shadow Gets:

100% Immunity to force/tech attacks for 3 seconds on a 60 second cooldown.

Operative Clearly the winner here.

 

 

Operative gets:

Shield Probe absorbs 2000 damage, 45/30 second cooldown.

Shadow gets:

50% dodge for 12 seconds on a 120 second cooldown.

Here an operative is guaranteed 7-8k damage reduction (with talents), in the same time period a shadow will probably dodge 63% of attacks, with an average damage hit of say 1200?

1v1 for 12 seconds, oponent doing 1200 damage every 1.5 seconds (GCD) = 9600 damage done in a period of 12 seconds against the Shadow.

63% of that number and we have our average for what our defense bubble absorbs.

9600 x .63 = 6048 damage (on average) (Could be +/- 2k damage.)

Operative wins here in reliability.

 

 

Ontop of this ops have the following things that can be used in a defensive way:

AOE Mez

In combat heals

10% more damage reduction (armor)

 

Infiltrations weak defense in comparison is balanced out by a 2 second sprint, a knockback, and some taunts (useless 1v1)

 

It would appear people in this thread are comparing the "Hybrid" Tank Shadow to the Operative or just getting mixed up... Anyone that does this is just crazy. They cannot burst, they are a sustainable DPS class with survivability that is slightly better than a Marauder. Shadow Tank spec and Marauder both need a nerf. Marauder needs a survivability nerf, Shadow Tank needs a DPS nerf.

 

I would be happy for operatives to be buffed in the utility, if infiltrations were buffed up in the defense.

 

That is all. /thread.

 

Only post that matters.

 

Darkness > Operative > Deception

 

There's no debate. Sin tank in dps gear is broken. Deception is inferior to operative counterpart significantly, and for most of the reasons listed above.

 

The problem is, again, that people in here are comparing an imaginary 31-31-0 spec to an operative dps spec.

 

Assassins have 2 main specs, Deception (counterpart of op) and Darkness (tanking). They are very different and even use different main attack types. Please stop conflating the two, or just stop posting. There is already too much misinformation in here as is.

[Sinemetu]

Only post that matters.

 

Darkness > Operative > Deception

 

There's no debate. Sin tank in dps gear is broken. Deception is inferior to operative counterpart significantly, and for most of the reasons listed above.

 

The problem is, again, that people in here are comparing an imaginary 31-31-0 spec to an operative dps spec.

 

Assassins have 2 main specs, Deception (counterpart of op) and Darkness (tanking). They are very different and even use different main attack types. Please stop conflating the two, or just stop posting. There is already too much misinformation in here as is.

 

Except, the guy you quoted doesn't seem to know anything about how the abilities he mentioned worked, as I showed in my reply to him. That, and he's comparing a 31-31-31 operative to the assassin. Concealment operatives don't get any of the CD reductions he listed--that takes deep lethality--and to heal for 5k during a 4s stun he'd have to be a full healing spec popping an adrenal and a relic. I'm full healing spec and I only heal for that much when the stars align.

 

Oh yeah, and the best part is the Deception spec *can* pick up the reduced duration on Force Shroud. It's actually a pretty decent option for 7 points, with no "bad" prereqs to get there.

 

If your argument is based on what you quoted, you have no argument or you're just trolling.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Sinemetu

[goz_-]

Let me clear his post for you

 

Originally Posted by HyperThomas

Let's talk about the defensive CDs of Infiltration/Operative:

 

Operative gets:

100% Dodge for 3 seconds on a 60/45 second cooldown.

Only affects white numbers(physical damage)

Shadow Gets:

100% Immunity to force/tech attacks for 3 seconds on a 60 second cooldown.

Operative Clearly the loser here.

 

 

Operative gets:

Shield Probe absorbs 2000 damage, 45/30 second cooldown.

Shadow gets:

50% dodge for 12 seconds on a 120 second cooldown. (thats nearly the same as "Dodge" from OP/scounds)

Here an operative is guaranteed 7-8k damage reduction (with talents but 4k without), in the same time period a shadow will probably dodge 63% of attacks, with an average damage hit of say 1200? (that leaves out all snipers, mercaneries and sentinels)

1v1 for 12 seconds, oponent doing 1200 damage every 1.5 seconds (GCD) = 9600 damage done in a period of 12 seconds against the Shadow.

63% of that number and we have our average for what our defense bubble absorbs.

9600 x .63 = 6048 damage (on average) (Could be +/- 2k damage.)

Operative wins here in reliability.

 

 

Ontop of this ops have the following things that can be used in a defensive way:

AOE Mez

In combat heals

10% more damage reduction (armor) (You probably specced wrong but my dps-sin has 24.72% dr and guess what, so does my scoundrel)

 

Infiltrations weak defense in comparison is balanced out by a 2 second sprint(which easily outruns the maximum fire range of most classes), a knockback, and some taunts (useless 1v1), single target mezz and I know it's crap but you may count in the cyclone as well

 

It would appear people in this thread are comparing the "Hybrid" Tank Shadow to the Operative or just getting mixed up... Anyone that does this is just crazy.He does the same by the way. They cannot burst, they are a sustainable DPS class with survivability that is slightly better than a Marauder. Shadow Tank spec and Marauder both need a nerf. Marauder needs a survivability nerf, Shadow Tank needs a DPS nerf.

 

I would be happy for operatives to be buffed in the utility, if infiltrations were buffed up in the defense.

 

That is all. /thread.

 

A fact is that a dps-shadow/sin is more useful for groups then a scoundrel or operative. And teamplay is normally the mainfocus in MMOs as far as I know.

Edited April 2, 2012 by goz_-

[shokoru]

Let me clear your post for you

 

 

 

The fact is that tank sins are more useful for groups than jugs.

 

sad day

Edited April 2, 2012 by shokoru

[thefishdude]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark charge gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

 

lol...want some cheese with that whine?

[Xienive]

I love as a tank spec being compared to a burst dps spec purely because we both use stealth.

 

 

Can we talk about all the stuff that Sages get and Guardians don't since they both use 1 lightsaber?

[Squatdog_nz]

'HyperThomas' really doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

 

LMAO@a sub-2k bubble being better than a tanking ability giving 50% dodge over 12sec...especially when he's citing a 30sec bubble that comes from the 2nd top tier in LETHALITY tree that most Lethality Operatives don't even use....

 

LOL@at an Operative having anywhere near the sustained DPS of a Infiltration Assassin after the original burst from stealth...once the target drops to 30% health it isn't even a contest...

 

LOL@these mythical Operatives who can cloak (not vanish) in combat and heal massive amounts of health inside the space of a 4sec stun (instead of, you know, attacking) by spamming a sub-2k heal with a 2.5sec cast time...

 

I mean seriously.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[Eaglemouse]

This post wreaks of misinformation.

 

Taunts aren't on GCD, 12% reduction means 12% less damage the healers take. The aoe taunt alone is just brilliant. You mean the massive push on voidstar can be mitigated with a single shadow? Not to mention taunt can be used while stealthed.

 

I play a balance shadow and am rarely focused down. Taunts + pushes + Root and top it off with a guard and I am a mitigating machine. Do you know how many BM geared dps it takes to kill a guarded sage healer when they are all taunted?

 

Try applying before lone wolfing every game you play.

 

 

My post was misinformation?

 

A) You can not use taunt in stealth if you do it takes you out of stealth!

 

B) I could argue taunt isn't even a tank skill as DPS get this same skill as well (so what does the tank bring if the dps can do this as well?)

 

C) why even taunt when you can use Spike with champion pvp gear (10 second reduction in time) and if fully tank spec'd you can use the skill out of stealth

 

So you have spike 2 second stun plus knock down on a 20 second cooldown

 

D) no global cool down on taunt but you still have cool down timer for the skill!! It can't be spammed as when the global cool down is in effect from other skills it's grayed out as well even if it dosen't trigger a globel cooldown when used.

 

E) guard is only 5% mitigation

 

But I guess you knew all this if you play the class as you have stated.

 

So tanks bring what to pvp again (over dps)? Not taunt because dps gets that too! Guard? and some armor.....have you eve read about the effects of armor and shilding in pvp and why it fails? let me link it for you...

 

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

 

This clearly shows how and why tanks fail in pvp. Much of the armor they have can not only be bypassed by type, but if you have a high enough crit and accuracy shield and defense chance can be reduced by a large amount removing much of the defense the only thing you bring to the table. Who don't stack crit for pvp?

 

I Welcome your replay because you sir are wrong. You may play a shadow but you Sir do not play a tank or tank spec in pvp.

 

 

Edit: taunt and guard are for one thing, and that's medal farming......I should know.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Eaglemouse

[ChairForceOne]

Not that im disagreeing or agreeing with you. But you're not going to get anything accomplished or resolved with posts like this. I mean lets be honest. PvP forums are where alll the players with ego's larger then life come to declare how bad that player is and how his/her class is balanced or needs a buff.

 

 

The mindset of so many PvP'ers is If you beat me, your OP. If i beat you, it was balanced / you suck. And they will ignore any information otherwise. It's all buff me, nerf them and there is absolutely no convincing them otherwise.

 

I mean lets be honest, if Rock Paper Scissors was an MMO, PvPers would be on the forum complaining it was unbalanced.

[Eaglemouse]

Not that im disagreeing or agreeing with you. But you're not going to get anything accomplished or resolved with posts like this. I mean lets be honest. PvP forums are where alll the players with ego's larger then life come to declare how bad that player is and how his/her class is balanced or needs a buff.

 

 

The mindset of so many PvP'ers is If you beat me, your OP. If i beat you, it was balanced / you suck. And they will ignore any information otherwise. It's all buff me, nerf them and there is absolutely no convincing them otherwise.

 

I mean lets be honest, if Rock Paper Scissors was an MMO, PvPers would be on the forum complaining it was unbalanced.

 

I agree. Odds are nothing is going to be done anyways until the nerf's in 1.2 play out.

 

I do think all tanks in the game are struggling in the game (pvp only) and yes currently the Sin has a slight advantage over them even. Nearly all Sins have changed spec or run tank spec in full dps gear (many times pve gear is better even). This allows you to live and even beat most other tank builds due to utility (not dps) like small amount of self healing that can turn the battle in LONG fights.

 

Anyways we will see in time.......

[goz_-]

My post was misinformation?

 

A) You can not use taunt in stealth if you do it takes you out of stealth! False

 

 

B) I could argue taunt isn't even a tank skill as DPS get this same skill as well (so what does the tank bring if the dps can do this as well?)

 

C) why even taunt when you can use Spike with champion pvp gear (10 second reduction in time) and if fully tank spec'd you can use the skill out of stealth Nonsense+Taunts don't fill up your resolve

 

 

So you have spike 2 second stun plus knock down on a 20 second cooldown

 

D) no global cool down on taunt but you still have cool down timer for the skill!! It can't be spammed as when the global cool down is in effect from other skills it's grayed out as well even if it dosen't trigger a globel cooldown when used. You can use taunt while the gcd of other skills is active

 

 

E) guard is only 5% mitigation

 

But I guess you knew all this if you play the class as you have stated.

 

So tanks bring what to pvp again (over dps)? Not taunt because dps gets that too! Guard? and some armor.....have you eve read about the effects of armor and shilding in pvp and why it fails? let me link it for you...

 

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

 

This clearly shows how and why tanks fail in pvp. Much of the armor they have can not only be bypassed by type, but if you have a high enough crit and accuracy shield and defense chance can be reduced by a large amount removing much of the defense the only thing you bring to the table. Who don't stack crit for pvp?

 

I Welcome your replay because you sir are wrong. You may play a shadow but you Sir do not play a tank or tank spec in pvp.

 

 

Edit: taunt and guard are for one thing, and that's medal farming......I should know.

 

AoE-Taunt is useable while stealthing.

 

By the way. Whats up with these "why even use taunt..." arguements. Are you people too lazy to push a button?

 

And maybe Tanks fail in PvP atm but Off-tanks don't and they will be a must have with 1.2 especially Sins/Shadows

Edited April 9, 2012 by goz_-

[vimm]

I stopped reading at the part where you want assassin'a knockdown not to affect resolve.