How do you beat a Vanguard?

[Varicite]

I'm sure it has happened at some time that a Pyro PT goes through a WZ without dying, and yet I don't see screenshots of them doing 500K+ like Marauders are doing or the 700K+ Darkness can do. At least, if such screenshot exists, they certainly aren't talked about as much compared to the two other DPS classes.

 

I usually don't think too much about people at the bad end of matchups. Some classes do end up as auto-lose against PTs but that's not within my power to change. Sometimes you'll get half of the WZ being a Marauder or an Assassin, so I consider those two classes the standard metric to judge power by. Compared to those two classes, a PT is nothing special. They might be strong compared to rest of the classes, but there sure are a lot of Marauders/Assassins out there.

 

Numbers are post-surge nerf, credit goes to the excellent PTs who posted these. It's hard to be "talked about" when you can look at the population for either Mara or Sin alone and double that of Pyro PTs.

 

Your move. : )

 

http://i.imgur.com/0hNY4.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/eqnyx.jpg

 

http://imgur.com/Tiihv

 

http://h12.abload.de/img/500ktyuox.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/kdgrP.jpg

 

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/osianic/Screenshot_2012-02-21_16_58_55_439939.jpg

 

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/Seeweed01/818k.png

 

The difference is, that while Maras are burning people down fast w/ bleeds for their damage, and Shadows are using AoEs and lasting longer, PT Pyros go down fast. BUT, while we are up, we put out a metric ton of Elemental damage while smashing you w/ these:

 

http://www.risengaming.com/pvp/Screenshot_2012-02-22_22_37_55_087993.jpg

 

http://www.risengaming.com/pvp/Screenshot_2012-02-21_21_01_12_845364.jpg

 

Don't underestimate Pyro, we are scary every second that we are breathing. Just not if you happen to play a Tankasin or Mara. : )

Edited April 1, 2012 by Varicite

[TheNegotiator]

If you let an Arsenal Merc free cast on you then you deserve to die. Charge+Interrupt will see them dead. Arsenal Mercs are the easiest class to 1v1.

 

EDIT: Arsenal Mercs do great damage.....when left alone. The top damage dealers we had to deal with were 2 Commandos named Chubbs and Iopata who were specced whatever the mirror of Arsenal is for Commandos. They were pumping out high DPS until we marked them and sent me and Aeion to take them out (both Marauders). Where they melted people when left alone, they could barely take anyone down 25% health once they are focused. Interrupts destroy Tracer missle, and Marauders have a plethora of interrupts.

 

 

TL;DR If you lose a lot to Arsenal Mercs/Grav roun specced Vanguards, especially if you fight them head on, you are either insanely undergeared or don't know what an interrupt is.

 

Tracer Missile is a 1.5 sec refresh. My interrupt is on a 4 second refresh (reduced 2 seconds because I spent 15 points on tactics). 1.5 sec < 4.0 sec....see the problem now? I have 2 stuns which amount to 6 seconds total which have long refresh timers, my damage as a Vanguard is not very good (if you want storm you have to spend 20 points in shielding). All this adds up to a very dead Vanguard in champion gear, you simply cannot stop tracer missiles they will kill you every time. I won't even mention the fact they can stun you, knock you back and heal themselves.

[Varicite]

Tracer Missile is a 1.5 sec refresh. My interrupt is on a 4 second refresh (reduced 2 seconds because I spent 15 points on tactics). 1.5 sec < 4.0 sec....see the problem now? I have 2 stuns which amount to 6 seconds total which have long refresh timers, my damage as a Vanguard is not very good (if you want storm you have to spend 20 points in shielding). All this adds up to a very dead Vanguard in champion gear, you simply cannot stop tracer missiles they will kill you every time. I won't even mention the fact they can stun you, knock you back and heal themselves.

 

You should be able to kill an Arsenal merc pretty easily, btw.

 

You have the reduced Interrupt, so it should be even easier for you than most PTs.

 

Interrupt Tracer > eat whatever damage they do w/ Unload/etc while doing damage to them > 2.5 sec stun when you see Tracer cast > do more damage to them > Interrupt Tracer again > usually they will knock you back here, so Harpoon to get back in melee, eat the next Tracer if their Resolve is full now.. otherwise, use your 4 sec stun to interrupt > damage damage damage > Interrupt Tracer, etc.

 

You can pretty much repeat this for as long as necessary until the Merc is dead, especially as a tank spec that includes Storm. Just replace Harpoon w/ Storm when it's on cd. As long as Harpoon is off of cd, you can even use Storm to engage them. It should be ready before you need it again.

 

You will do more damage than they can do to you, and thus, they die and you go buy a coke.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Varicite

[mamosh]

My gear is pretty decent. i'm level 38 and i have 6 oranges with very up to date modifications. and the other slots are all in the mid 30's with greens/blues. The exception to this is my belt, which is like a level 28 blue.

 

EDIT: My weapons are both equipped with purple quality hilts that i made, and purple quality crit gems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the specific type of vanguard, i'm unsure. I don't seem to ever do well against any of them.

 

there is your problem vang gets strong around lv 20ish and stays that way maras are late bloomer trust me it will get better the higher you get

[Blurps]

I'm talking about our shield absorbtion.

 

Not sure if serious

 

Anyway, 10/10 for the OP for scoring 13+ pages of drivel about Vanguards/Powertechs when it's really obvious he's actually talking about Commandos.

[Osicat]

Numbers are post-surge nerf, credit goes to the excellent PTs who posted these. It's hard to be "talked about" when you can look at the population for either Mara or Sin alone and double that of Pyro PTs.

 

Pew pew, pyro ftw

 

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/osianic/Screenshot_2012-03-14_14_14_40_759062.jpg

 

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/osianic/Screenshot_2012-02-21_16_58_55_439939.jpg

 

What I like with pyro is that its not only alot of dmg in terms of AOE, u also get alot of kills and KB,s. U accualy end ppl not only tickle em. Cant wait for 1,2 thu as life will be easier with more reliable ppm for rails, u know a new fight u get 2x fast rails and a termal the fisrst seconds, then its up to your other abilitys to finnish em off.

 

 

ps: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/osianic/nerfem.jpg

Edited April 1, 2012 by Osicat

[jitsuo]

Disruption's range is far shorter than TM. If you don't charge in (which is dumb because you just get tossed), you'll probably have 4 TM stacks on you from 2 TMs. At this point he can use HSM (the 5th stack isn't going to make or break the fight), and at this point it becomes a fight that depends on how lucky the Merc is with procs. Each Unload proc basically cancels out your interrupt (use Unload when Tracer is interrupted). I've been thinking about whether to just switch to Power Shot if Tracer Missile gets interrupted, since if you got 4 stacks of TM on the enemy you really don't need the 5th one that badly. At any rate this is probably why in 1.2 the chance to proc Barrage is considerably increased so you don't have an instant lose situation if you get unlucky with Barrage procs.

 

If you're seriously having trouble beating an ARSENAL MERC 1v1, you're beyond help. In the time it takes to interrupt 3-4 TMs, they're always dead.

[jitsuo]

Tracer Missile is a 1.5 sec refresh. My interrupt is on a 4 second refresh (reduced 2 seconds because I spent 15 points on tactics). 1.5 sec < 4.0 sec....see the problem now? I have 2 stuns which amount to 6 seconds total which have long refresh timers, my damage as a Vanguard is not very good (if you want storm you have to spend 20 points in shielding). All this adds up to a very dead Vanguard in champion gear, you simply cannot stop tracer missiles they will kill you every time. I won't even mention the fact they can stun you, knock you back and heal themselves.

 

Hahahahahahahahaha kill you every time, hahahahahaha.

 

Huge l2p here

 

Caster pushback+delay on casting helps immensely, plus you can use this sequence

 

Interrupt---->Grapple----->Interrupt--->Stun----Interrupt---->Stun-----Interrupt (remove the grapple if you need to gap close)

 

If you can't kill the TM spammer in that window, you're REALLY bad.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jitsuo

[TheNegotiator]

If you're seriously having trouble beating an ARSENAL MERC 1v1, you're beyond help. In the time it takes to interrupt 3-4 TMs, they're always dead.

 

You're the brainless one. TM is on a 1.5 second timer which is much faster than any interrupt cool down. They also can cc you, heal themselves, and break your cc.

[Ryotknife]

Hahahahahahahahaha kill you every time, hahahahahaha.

 

Huge l2p here

 

Caster pushback+delay on casting helps immensely, plus you can use this sequence

 

Interrupt---->Grapple----->Interrupt--->Stun----Interrupt---->Stun-----Interrupt (remove the grapple if you need to gap close)

 

If you can't kill the TM spammer in that window, you're REALLY bad.

 

okay....you realize that grapple can not be used from melee right? meaning that the pt will have to run AWAY BEFORE the merc starts casting in order to grapple him.

 

soo....why is the terribad using tracer missile if the pt is clearly running away in order to use grapple to interrupt? only time that should happen is if the merc creates a gap.

 

not saying that mercs are hard, but your rotation is beyond laughable. as in a dead monkey can play better on that merc. and even if you could pull off that rotation against someone who is afk or has no arms, the merc can still get in....3-4 tracer missiles

Edited April 1, 2012 by Ryotknife

[jitsuo]

okay....you realize that grapple can not be used from melee right? meaning that the pt will have to run AWAY BEFORE the merc starts casting in order to grapple him.

 

soo....why is the terribad using tracer missile if the pt is clearly running away in order to use grapple to interrupt? only time that should happen is if the merc creates a gap.

 

not saying that mercs are hard, but your rotation is beyond laughable. as in a dead monkey can play better on that merc.

 

Mostly it's meant to be used during one of his Knockbacks. If the merc doesn't knock you back first thing, somethings very wrong

 

How is it laughable? PT's have 2 stuns. At most they have to eat 1 TM after stopping 5 of them. If you can't kill a merc, you're absolutely terrible

Edited April 1, 2012 by jitsuo

[jitsuo]

You're the brainless one. TM is on a 1.5 second timer which is much faster than any interrupt cool down. They also can cc you, heal themselves, and break your cc.

 

Yeah, heals that can't be interrupted....oh wait yes they can

 

They can break your CC, unlike any other class.......hmmm wait, that's wrong/

 

Oh they CC? That's unique....wait, no, that's wrong too.

 

Caster pushback, stun usage, gap closers, INTERRUPTS. You can put out 3 times the DPS a Merc can if he gets interrupted and can only eek out one TM in betweeen interrupts or stuns.

 

Unload spam? Other attacks besides TM? Of course they have that, it'd be brainless if TM was their only move, but they do much less damage. If you let the Merc free-cast on you and get 4-5 TM armor debuffs on you from jump street, that's your fault. Sorcerers have a ranged interrupt, Marauders have a Charge and a Vanish, Assassins have Force speed and a Vanish, Juggies have a Charge and Force Push to interrupt again, PT's have grapple and interrupt, Snipers have a ranged interrupt, Ops have Vanish and quite a few stuns.

 

Each and every class has the tools to gap close, interrupt, and out DPS any merc. I say again, if you lose to mercs 1v1 then you're terribad

[TheNegotiator]

Hahahahahahahahaha kill you every time, hahahahahaha.

 

Huge l2p here

 

Caster pushback+delay on casting helps immensely, plus you can use this sequence

 

Interrupt---->Grapple----->Interrupt--->Stun----Interrupt---->Stun-----Interrupt (remove the grapple if you need to gap close)

 

If you can't kill the TM spammer in that window, you're REALLY bad.

 

You have to close the distance to use an interrupt it's not a ranged ability. Grapple is a ranged ability. You won't be grappling again when close in on a BH. The fact that you don't even know that interrupt is a close range ability is enlightening enough....you suck.

[Typheran]

1.2 will help you beat a vangaurd

[jitsuo]

You have to close the distance to use an interrupt it's not a ranged ability. Grapple is a ranged ability. You won't be grappling again when close in on a BH. The fact that you don't even know that interrupt is a close range ability is enlightening enough....you suck.

 

Please read the next post before you try to spew your ignorance. I have a 50 PT, I ALWAYS go after Mercs/Commandos. Free valor/kills

[Ryotknife]

Please read the next post before you try to spew your ignorance. I have a 50 PT, I ALWAYS go after Mercs/Commandos. Free valor/kills

 

good luck killing the merc/commando in the back when 3 of his MELEE friends immediately tag along for the ride and kill you in 4 seconds. mercs are (usually) not stupid enough to try to solo cap something because it negates their biggest advantage.

 

only time you can reliably get 1v1 fights with mercs is in huttball....in which case you should be escorting the ball carrier, not going around picking off mercs.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Ryotknife

[jitsuo]

good luck killing the merc/commando in the back when 3 of his MELEE friends immediately tag along for the ride and kill you in 4 seconds.

 

only time you can reliably get 1v1 fights with mercs is in huttball....in which case you should be escorting the ball carrier, not going around picking off mercs.

 

Try controlling mid. TMers hang out on the ramps and are easy picking.

[physiology]

People still have trouble with tracer/grav spammers? A lot of bad pvpers on the pvp forums...

[TheNegotiator]

Please read the next post before you try to spew your ignorance. I have a 50 PT, I ALWAYS go after Mercs/Commandos. Free valor/kills

 

Do I need to read any more of your crapola? The fact that you claim a Merc is an easy kill tells me you don't have much experience going after them. What class do you PVP with?

[Ryotknife]

Try controlling mid. TMers hang out on the ramps and are easy picking.

 

in which case you should be escorting the ball carrier....not hanging out in the middle.....

 

there are plenty of other classes that can control the mid better than a pyro pt can. the pt should be using taunt, aoe stun, grapple, and possibly gaurd if there are no other tanks around to defend the ball carrier (or not enough tanks for the healer to get a gaurd, even though it drops the pyros dps)

[jitsuo]

Do I need to read any more of your crapola? The fact that you claim a Merc is an easy kill tells me you don't have much experience going after them. What class do you PVP with?

 

Like I've stated, Marauder and PT.

 

Easy, EASY kills. They're killable when I'm half cent and they're full champ. When I first started PvPing I would get my Assassin medals off them. Now I go after them because, unchecked, they wreak havoc. When targeted, they cause as much trouble as a trash mob.

 

The only things you have told me give you trouble are EASILY interruptable abilities. Mercs have very little mitigation (lol heavy armor) and their heals are lackluster when casted. Mercs are good team specs, the worst 1v1 spec because any class can beat them.

 

If you disagree, I know exactly what kind of player you are

[Varicite]

good luck killing the merc/commando in the back when 3 of his MELEE friends immediately tag along for the ride and kill you in 4 seconds. mercs are (usually) not stupid enough to try to solo cap something because it negates their biggest advantage.

 

only time you can reliably get 1v1 fights with mercs is in huttball....in which case you should be escorting the ball carrier, not going around picking off mercs.

 

Um, just to clarify, you're saying that Merc/Commandos are powerful because their THREE FRIENDS will kill you if you try to engage?

 

1v4 usually doesn't work out well for any class.

 

1v1, Arsenal Mercs are the weakest class in the game.

[jitsuo]

in which case you should be escorting the ball carrier....not hanging out in the middle.....

 

there are plenty of other classes that can control the mid better than a pyro pt can. the pt should be using taunt, aoe stun, grapple, and possibly gaurd if there are no other tanks around to defend the ball carrier (or not enough tanks for the healer to get a gaurd, even though it drops the pyros dps)

 

A tankasin can do those things much better than a Pt can while also being mobile, I play more defense

 

Pyro PT is one of the best defensive classes. It's better for me to pick the classes off our ramps since we counter Sorcerers so well, and Sorcerers like to set up extricates in the ramps. If I'm already playing defense then I will control mid as well.

 

2 classes have a pull, I'd rather use my pull on enemy ball carriers than enemies attacking my ball carrier. There's CCs and healing that other classes can use to support the ball carrier, I'd rather control our ramps from the enemy.

[Varicite]

Do I need to read any more of your crapola? The fact that you claim a Merc is an easy kill tells me you don't have much experience going after them. What class do you PVP with?

 

Just gonna leave this here... again.

 

You should be able to kill an Arsenal merc pretty easily, btw.

 

You have the reduced Interrupt, so it should be even easier for you than most PTs.

 

Interrupt Tracer > eat whatever damage they do w/ Unload/etc while doing damage to them > 2.5 sec stun when you see Tracer cast > do more damage to them > Interrupt Tracer again > usually they will knock you back here, so Harpoon to get back in melee, eat the next Tracer if their Resolve is full now.. otherwise, use your 4 sec stun to interrupt > damage damage damage > Interrupt Tracer, etc.

 

You can pretty much repeat this for as long as necessary until the Merc is dead, especially as a tank spec that includes Storm. Just replace Harpoon w/ Storm when it's on cd. As long as Harpoon is off of cd, you can even use Storm to engage them. It should be ready before you need it again.

 

You will do more damage than they can do to you, and thus, they die and you go buy a coke.

 

Questions? Always willing to help.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Varicite

[Ryotknife]

Um, just to clarify, you're saying that Merc/Commandos are powerful because their THREE FRIENDS will kill you if you try to engage?

 

1v4 usually doesn't work out well for any class.

 

1v1, Arsenal Mercs are the weakest class in the game.

 

no, what im saying is that in wzs getting a 1v1 with a merc is not easy unless the merc is either an idiot or you are ignoring objectives/not playing the role you should be playing considering your class......or if his team are a bunch of jerks who left him to solo defend a node.

 

ill admit that 1v1 mercs are pretty weak, but unless you are a stealth class 1v1 means nothing to objective pvp.

 

i much rather fight a merc than a mara, shadow, or op. ill usually win the fight with 30-40% hp, although next patch who knows seeing how pyro pt dps will plummet. although if the AP changes pan out, then that will be even worse for mercs

Edited April 1, 2012 by Ryotknife