alement Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 only a tank sin/shadow has to be looked at, whereas infiltration has to be looked at and buffed I agree with this 100%. Tank sin doesn't REALLY need nerfing anyways. They're still killable, and their damage output is only worthwhile if they're hybrid spec with Madness/Balance. Maybe just put Death Field/Force in Balance in a higher tier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I agree with this 100%. Tank sin doesn't REALLY need nerfing anyways. They're still killable, and their damage output is only worthwhile if they're hybrid spec with Madness/Balance. Maybe just put Death Field/Force in Balance in a higher tier? True hybrid builds like the 23/0/18 have been dead for quite awhile now because charge/stance change costs 100 force and you can no longer gain raze procs in Dark Charge/KC. Anyone still using a hybrid build, is gimping themselves. Edited April 4, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Darkness Assassins don't need a nerf per say and neither does infiltration need a buff with regard to the damage department. At best, I would say that the latter needs a boost to survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arynoth Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Anyone that actually has a Sin/Shadow and is saying Deception/Infiltration is worthless or weak should delete your gosh darn character. Sick of bads crying. Yes the spec needs some improvements but it's far from worthless. Also if people are gonna be rolling new chars why do you think everyone would make a Sin? Marauder would be better. I agree with you, I'm an infiltration shadow and I fail to see why people cry over us. Leveling up anyway in blue gear I am typically in the top 3 DPS, a good amount of the time the top DPS for the entire warzone while doing the objectives (aka trying to run the ball, defend a turret, plant/defend a door). My deaths though are usually the highest too unless I'm guarded or healed. You know what I'm fine with that, I can kill things when I am 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2, I just suck in group engagements. Hell maybe its my server, but when the imps notice I don't have guard on anyone they are targeting others over me (in mob melees) while I go around burst damaging down healers or others undesirables. The only thing I'd enjoy is a bit more survivability, but the spec/tree is not broken, just bad players playing a spec that requires more skill then dps tank spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJude Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/ykxEo.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatne Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 No they don't. Those people are weak whining plebs and should be shunned by the gaming community at large (the RL community as well imo) I approve of this post. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Can you please help me to remember why shadows are so awesome, seeing I haven't seen anything other then a knight / warrior in PVP for a week now? I kinda forget what they do! Edited April 19, 2012 by lexiekaboom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLuaD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 All together, that makes for an amazing 1v1 class. That's all you needed to write. Compared to Guardians, they are insanely good 1v1. In fact, they are better tanks all round than Guardians. I'm in the position of having lvl 50's of both (Guardian and Assassin), and I can tell you right now that there's a marked difference in the versatility and strength of these two classes. A tank with stealth, self-healing and good dps. Yeah, not OP at all. Simply interupt telekinetic throw and you interupt our main heal. Given that it's an uninterruptable ability, and that the CC required to interrupt it is limited in nature and only temporarily effective, that argument is moot. On my Assassin, if I'm stunned/knocked down/pushed etc, I just get right back up and resume casting force lightning. Without that heal, we'll drop pretty quick. Either that, or focus fire us. Our defensive cooldowns (all 2 of them...) aren't great (well, 5 seconds immunity to force/tech is great, but its only 5 seconds), our damage reduction is lower than most tanks, our shield chance disappears against multiple foes.... We don't drop as quick as a Vigilance or Focus spec Guardian, I can tell you that. And a Soresu spec Guardian has nothing of our dps or self-heal capabilities (not to mention stealth). 5 seconds of immunity is a life time in a 1v1 encounter. Used correctly, it utterly nullifies the 2 or 3 big-damage attacks from an opponent. Damage reduction is higher than 2 of the Guardian specs, and mentioning the shield is pointless because all tanks undergo the same effect. TL;DR: inf/balance shadows need a buff, kc shadows are fine, just either interupt their heal or focus fire, they'll drop quickly lol @ "focus fire". You pretty much nailed it on the head. If it's a tank-spec 'Sin or Shadow, bring some friends, or you're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLuaD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 No they don't. Those people are weak whining plebs and should be shunned by the gaming community at large (the RL community as well imo) Or they're simply entitled to their own opinions - seeing as everything here, including your own juvenile vitriol, is merely opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLuaD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Everyone that has ever made a "nerf X" thread/post is just terribad and trying to destroy the game with the constant nerf cycle of mmo destruction. Really? So with that sweeping generalisation, I guess the nerf to Operatives/Scoundrels was unfounded all along? Anyone who makes a sweeping generalisation is typically adverse to using their supposed intellect to sift through threads and identify pointless griping from that of justifiable complaints. You've offered nothing to counter some of the well-thought reasons given on here (and other threads)....merely coughed up numerous instances of insulting generalisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Shadows don't need a nerf, some classes need buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLuaD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Doesn't anyone realize that "class re-balancing" is a total myth?! The main reason is that no two players are alike so one person can play a totally crappy class great, and another person can play a FOTM or OP class really badly. Eventually most people figure out the FOTM class, the gear, the skill rotation, etc. Then mathematically it's the best class. The next step that makes this an impossible task (re-balancing), is all games want "variety" different classes, and different skills. Because who wants to play a game that has ALL the SAME class? So how do you make different skills, that different classes don't have, yet offset what your class does have? You can't. For instance as a Commando I except I'm a piece of meat for a glowstick to hack down, but at least I could DPS you. But if you can interrupt it?! Now how is it fair? I guess I get to get an interrupt, but then you need more DPS. So it's just basically a vicious cycle. If I was BW, I would skip re balancing because it always will upset more people than who it will make happy. Yes....what? :confused: So you're advocating paper/rock/scissors as an enjoyable form of pvp? How about this - classes still retain their unique styles, roles and appeal, yet are roughly balanced against each other so that no one class ever has an inherent advantage over another. Crazy, I know. That means individual skill features more...you know, the whole point of pvp? It's called evolution, people. Embrace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLuaD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Shadows don't need a nerf, some classes need buffs. This I support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anariodin Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Nerfing classes doesnt make other classes better. A negative thing like a nerf is what people always want, why not try to figure out what might make another class equal in their specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nokizaru Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Nerfing classes doesnt make other classes better. A negative thing like a nerf is what people always want, why not try to figure out what might make another class equal in their specs? Exactly. Instead of the constant 'beat down' effect of nerfing, how about bringing those classes identified as being 'weaker' to a level that is on a similar playing field as the stronger classes. Juggers/Guards are one such class still in need of decent love - 1.2 addressed some of the concerns, but certainly not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldenstar Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Exactly. Instead of the constant 'beat down' effect of nerfing, how about bringing those classes identified as being 'weaker' to a level that is on a similar playing field as the stronger classes. Juggers/Guards are one such class still in need of decent love - 1.2 addressed some of the concerns, but certainly not all. Because if you do that with every change you end up with massive power creep in a few months which ruins a lot of PvE content and drops the TTK in WZs even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nokizaru Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Because if you do that with every change you end up with massive power creep in a few months which ruins a lot of PvE content and drops the TTK in WZs even further. Yeah I remember a similar discussion a few months prior where your point was raised by the PvE community. Perhaps if skills behaved differently in PvP/PvE, it would avoid the endless nerf obsession. I can really understand where some people get miffed by nerfs - you level a toon beyond 50 and into BM/WH Valour, only to have your legs felled from under you (arrow to the knee?). It's all part of MMO gaming, but it does carry an element of suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Deception/infiltration could use something like a small accuracy debuff proc for example, right now it has nearly zero survivability in the tree, at least madness/balance has self heals and a root. Edited May 17, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I understand people want them nerfed, but what specifically do you want changed? The class is rounded, but nothing nerf-worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Nice to see this topic back. The nerf mara/sents and PT/VG's were getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I hope they never buff deception, because then I won't have to put up with whiny bads crying about how its so unfair that they lost. Seriously, I would rather play an underpowered spec than have to forumwarrior on idiots 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valorman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You can't expect people to differentiate between the different specs of a class unless they actually play one themselves. For example, I know that Shadows/Assassins are OP. I know they have Stealth, resistance on a 45 second timer, Self-healing, Speed, AoE knockback, Guard and sometimes even a Pull. And all that coupled with some insane burst damage that's quite easy to set up when coming from Stealth. Now this is probably and issue with the tank-hybrid spec, but that's not something you can expect everyone to observe. they have resistance for 3 seconds very small self healing and the rest just doesnt even matter really. but insane burst damage? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA you got jokes kid ive got good gear im in pre level 50 warzones my shock critical hits with voltaic slash has never broken 3k, my discharge SOMETIMES breaks 3k and to get above 2k i have to wait for my 1/5 chance of a force critical hit and a 1 and a half minute cooldown to increase my critical chance by 60% NOT even a guaranteed crit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valorman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I understand people want them nerfed, but what specifically do you want changed? The class is rounded, but nothing nerf-worthy. I want to be on par with scoundrels and operatives, give us an 16% critical chance to shock discharge and maul (its funny thinking about the many ways bioware could screw this up like reducing the assassins critical strike damage to crackling blast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelainid Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 they have resistance for 3 seconds very small self healing and the rest just doesnt even matter really. but insane burst damage? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA you got jokes kid ive got good gear im in pre level 50 warzones my shock critical hits with voltaic slash has never broken 3k, my discharge SOMETIMES breaks 3k and to get above 2k i have to wait for my 1/5 chance of a force critical hit and a 1 and a half minute cooldown to increase my critical chance by 60% NOT even a guaranteed crit U proud of that necro bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helistin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Nerfing something is never a mistake. Just ask our operative friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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