Commando Life Beyond 1.2 (keep it optimistic)

[originaltodzilla]

I, like the majority of you, am already feeling the pain of 1.2 and it isn't even here yet. I understand balancing, but the Commando was never FOTM. The Commando is at best CURRENTLY on par with most classes.

 

It's been beat to death that we have little survivability. Minimal movement (gunnery). No interrupts. The lists go on and on.

 

But like the title of the topic says "Commando Life Beyond 1.2 (keep it optimistic)". I know a lot of you will cancel SWTOR, or re-roll, but do any of you have hope?

 

Here is my "hope" list:

 

• 1.3: Nerfs removed or additional buffs to help with survivability and defense (another re balance)
  
• Maybe Assault Specialist re-spec?
  
• Worst case roll _____ class?
  

 

I think everything balances out (or at least I hope it does). We are going to have to suffer through 1.2, but hopefully BW will learn from it and give back our stats in the future. If not (besides quitting) what are your plans? Do you think the odds are good the Commando will ever be fixed??

[DaftMonkey]

I can understand most of the changes and i think that commando is only sub-par at lower levels. At the higher levels, i can give a lot of other classes a whooping. 1.3 will probably give us something that helps us at lower levels. If grav round is doing less damage then i don't see why it can't be moved lower down in the skill tree, that would help a bit. I don't expect any of the nerfs to be un-nerfed.

[Doomsdaycomes]

The 1.2 patch nerfs are not set in stone, and are running on the test server for a reason. I really think Commandos/Mercs are over reacting, and will find the nerfs a lot less crippling then they believe it to be. Not to mention there is a good chance Bioware will drop some of the nerfs after the test server does it's job.

 

As for commando's being flavor of the month... On my server (Lord Ieldis), the Republic side is full of troopers. Grav Round, Dps/heals, newb little commandos who flocked to an over powered class for a reason. Nerfs needed to happen.

 

However... ^_^ I am optimistic that we Mercs/Commandos will live on. I still plan to use my 50 merc healer in ops and wz's, and do not think I'll be "the worst class" out there.

[justntrue]

Ya.

 

Overreaction at BEST.

 

Bioware is doing a good job at balancing. Trust them.

 

I seen so many 400k+ damage commando grav round/tracer spammers.

 

try playing a GS/sniper in fatality/sharpshooter spec and you'll see exactly how hard it should be to produce 400k+ in a WZ. It ain't a walk in the park I'll tell you. And thats on a dedicated DPS AC.

 

you really didn't think a nerf was coming?

 

duh.

[DaftMonkey]

Ya.

 

Overreaction at BEST.

 

Bioware is doing a good job at balancing. Trust them.

 

I seen so many 400k+ damage commando grav round/tracer spammers.

 

try playing a GS/sniper in fatality/sharpshooter spec and you'll see exactly how hard it should be to produce 400k+ in a WZ. It ain't a walk in the park I'll tell you. And thats on a dedicated DPS AC.

 

you really didn't think a nerf was coming?

 

duh.

 

What relevance does this have to the OP?

[SvnStrSlm]

i wish people would ***** less and actually get on test to try the changes out. its like saying you hate pineapple with out ever eatin it. they are already adjusting the sage changes becuase guess what, some one actually gather data instead of screaming the sky is falling.

[Soltrooper]

i wish people would less and actually get on test to try the changes out. its like saying you hate pineapple with out ever eatin it. they are already adjusting the sage changes becuase guess what, some one actually gather data instead of screaming the sky is falling.

 

I can't transfer a 50 commando to test changes or I would. I can't auto generate a level 50 commando to test changes or I would. Do you really think people should level from one to fifty just to test? That I should pay to playtest a game? Sorry but a couple of titles don't cut it. I'm happy to read about testing and make my own conclusions (and not liking what I am reading). Pineapple is cheap, you aren't going to get me to pay a few hundred to see whether I like it or not. And unless I get to test it in a variety of situations I won't be able to tell what I like pineapple with.

 

And I can assure you that the pineapple that Bioware is giving the troopers in 1.2 is not meant to be taken through the mouth

[Ithnaar]

"Let me also say that there's significant under the hood changes to stats, diminishing returns, itemization stat budget, a new tier of gear with different stats and more diverse mods, changes to PvE and PvP math, etc.

 

That means that it is not possible to assess impact of class changes in regards to power gain or loss from the patch notes alone, people will have to go on PTS and actually play to get the full picture.”

 

Or, alternately, you could listen to Georg Zoeller...

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ithnaar

[Aritok]

Or, alternately, you could listen to Georg Zoeller...

 

I trust the word of RuQu more than GZ. And they did some tests on PTS to see this hidden changes, and guess what? Nothing found .

 

 

But see the bright side of it. Commandos will be still the only class who can wield Assault Cannons.....

[DeltaEkotte]

i think that commando is only sub-par at lower levels. QUOTE]

 

As I was lv'ing up I ran as a dps gunnary, and I had very few problems with survivability. Most things (aside form elites) died after 3 grav's, 1 demo and a full auto and sometimes a few hammer shots.

 

At the higher levels, i can give a lot of other classes a whooping. QUOTE]

 

My guild was in need of another healer, so I went healer and my survivability dropped by ~30% is PvE and ~50 in PvP, granted that maybe (in PvP) other players are targeting me because I am a healer but I am dieing much faster and much more often than when i was lv'ing.

[JLapp]

I don't really see any significant change to gunnery commandos. Slight decrease in survivability and a shift of some damage from grav round to full auto. PVE I probably won't notice a difference, PVP I will be a little less bursty since grav-spam won't be as effective.

[Kevann]

The nerfs is not too bad imho but i like see other change, instead of only fixing of broken mechanics of MV and FA.

Wishlist for my Commando CM:

-Concussive Round instant, like Sage, I don't see a reason why one of the our few CC (the longer) have 2 sec casting time.

-Rebalance of Ammo mechanics (or rebalance heat mechanics), for better balance between mirror classes.

-A Rupt skill would be nice, maybe is not possible for balance, but would be nice.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Kevann

[JLapp]

-Concussive Round instant, like Sage, I don't see a reason why one of the our few CC (the longer) have 2 sec casting time.

 

Sage CC is a base 2s cast which is talented to instant in their balance (DPS) tree.

[Kevann]

Sage CC is a base 2s cast which is talented to instant in their balance (DPS) tree.

 

Can do the same with Commando.

[Akash]

I've just really lost all motivation at this point.

 

My commando healer was 45 when the nerfs were announced.

 

It took me about 3 times as long to get him to 50 as it would have beforehand.

 

Since I've got him to 50, I've just kind of milled around with him. Can't seem to get excited about it, heh.

 

I will wait and see just how bad he's been gutted. If it's too bad then I may go DPS with him, or just go do something else.

[originaltodzilla]

When I originally posted this I was hoping for more replies about "if the re-balancing didn't work", what would you hope that BW does? Some of you did reply with ideas of how BW could fix it, so there was some progress

 

However it comes back to if it was necessary or not. For the sake of this topic, I was assuming the nerf was "not necessary". Don't worry, I'm avidly posting in the other threads on why IMO I think it's unnecessary.

 

To the posters that said "nerfs are never over turned", I unfortunately agree. Personally I think it's "developer pride". I mean to change back something 100s of people told you would be a bad idea, is a tough pill to swallow.

 

And as for PTS, I agree with the folks that don't have lvl 50 characters. An option to auto generate one would be a great idea. I'd gladly hop on and test, but like anyone, it's hard in real life to fit in SWTOR as it is, but to regrind a lvl 50 character just to test possible nerfs and possibly "inevitably" try and petition that the changes are wrong is a far stretch. I guess you can say "well I guess you don't care about the nerfs that much if you wont test", but lets be serious, it seems like there is a lot of obstacles in testing just to get an accurate test.

[Yakito]

I can only tell you that since Nightmare mode is very hard for me - ammo wise, I simply can't imagine keeping the Ops up after the nerf. I can't.

I am full Rakata, and I have 5 years of experience in healing... and I am telling you - I will struggle. It's going to be horrible. Sure, we have some undergeared people, but I guess this is yet another game that ruins my class PVE wise for the sake of PVP. Good times...

And then the devs realise that and add Dual Spec. It always comes to this. A lazy fix.

 

 

Obviously, I'll give it a shot, check if what I fear is true, but I am still not going to re-sub.

Not because of the nerf, althought it was the straw that broke the camel's back completely.

 

No class deserves so many nerfs at once. The most OP class didn't get that many (Imperial Agent/Smuggler) and we aren't anywhere near as OP. We are good, but we don't deserve to be ruined like this.

[LillyWhiteS]

Obviously, I'll give it a shot, check if what I fear is true, but I am still not going to re-sub.

Not because of the nerf, althought it was the straw that broke the camel's back completely.

 

No class deserves so many nerfs at once. The most OP class didn't get that many (Imperial Agent/Smuggler) and we aren't anywhere near as OP. We are good, but we don't deserve to be ruined like this.

 

Yeah far too many and not warranted, not even the strongest healer in the game...

 

I finally unsubbed last night myself after thinking about it for a while, was quite a long exit message with the reasons

 

Like you this was the final straw for me and it wasn't the main reason, which I highlighted in my reasons for leaving, for me the main reason is because Warzones being the main PvP in TOR, which is not enough.

 

Like in Warhammer, Warzone type PvP is secondary and they are for variety, you would do them when taking a break from warbands or when they were not going, they were never the main PvP and thus you never got bored of them.

 

Sadly since BW stuffed up Ilum, no forts or stuff to capture etc like in Warhammer, moving Warzones into the only real PvP, it means as a PvP player you are doing them far too often, more than they should be played and it's no surprise you would start to get bored of them.

 

Had the new WZ been like an Alterac Valley, big map, big number of participants and different objective type, it may have been enough to keep me going until bigger scale PvP was fixed, I at least would have subbed longer and gave some time...

 

Edit* Sorry to the op for not being an optimistic type post, but to add some optimism, hopefully BW sort out the problems, fix the big scale PvP and class balance, less CC etc on top of more class story and Companion stuff, would be great to do ops/fp's with a group/all of your companions and more reasons to use some of them other than for Crew stuff and I may well be back in the future

Edited March 28, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[originaltodzilla]

Edit* Sorry to the op for not being an optimistic type post, but to add some optimism, hopefully BW sort out the problems, fix the big scale PvP and class balance, less CC etc on top of more class story and Companion stuff, would be great to do ops/fp's with a group/all of your companions and more reasons to use some of them other than for Crew stuff and I may well be back in the future

Yeah, it's hard to be optomistic with these nerfs. I said to myself "well it's just a little longer to use GR now and it's a little weaker. Mortar Volley is smaller, etc"

 

But I totally forgot about the ammo cost going up Ammo is a pain, especially in PVE (and I love PVE, it was the original reason I joined SWTOR) Bassically it looks like commandos will be running around spamming hammer shot! Which is the equivalent of shooting rubber bands at people.

 

But to stay optimistic, I can only assume BW will fix it. It's sad to see people un-sub, but maybe that will get BWs attention. I'm going to stay. Like I said, I like PvE and the SW stories so I'll create more alts. Maybe sell out and make a FOTM class just for PVP. I don't have anything against Jedi, but I'm partial to blasters

[clearsighted]

The 1.2 patch nerfs are not set in stone, and are running on the test server for a reason. I really think Commandos/Mercs are over reacting, and will find the nerfs a lot less crippling then they believe it to be. Not to mention there is a good chance Bioware will drop some of the nerfs after the test server does it's job.

 

As for commando's being flavor of the month... On my server (Lord Ieldis), the Republic side is full of troopers. Grav Round, Dps/heals, newb little commandos who flocked to an over powered class for a reason. Nerfs needed to happen.

 

However... ^_^ I am optimistic that we Mercs/Commandos will live on. I still plan to use my 50 merc healer in ops and wz's, and do not think I'll be "the worst class" out there.

 

They're set in stone the moment they're released to the public.

 

Haven't you realized this yet???

 

The ONLY purpose of PTS feedback is BUG-FINDING.

[Gyronamics]

Optimistic?

 

I dunno.

 

Stuff which affects my Assault spec in 1.2:

 

3% less Crit

10% less spam damage (aka everything else has a cooldown and this is what I have left to fire)

My "free" procc'ed attacks when I use my spam attacks are going to be gimped

Mortar is going to do worse crit damage (has to crit 6 times to hit hard instead of 3)

Mortar loses about 2/3 of the area it can affect

Mortar knocks back mobs out of its AOE

Plasma Cell still does 2/3 of described damage

 

 

Oh optimism...

 

Uh.

 

Mortar now fires faster

[DaftMonkey]

Don't forget that the FA animation is fixed

[HileyQuiggley]

Well If you play Gunnery you are going to be fine.

 

I think actually better than before damage wise. A little less survivability but a loittle more damage overall. CM's are taking a decent hit but I think mainly it is due to alot of Commandos going Hybrid and Bio not wanting that. I just have no clue why they gimp Assault even more, it was the weaker spec anyways. Might have needed a boost instead of a minor nerf.

 

I used to be Assault full time but now that Im raiding alot I play Gunnery and I dont see this effecting me to much.

[Kunari]

Well If you play Gunnery you are going to be fine...

 

Before I switched to medic I was gunnery and I can say that it wasn't that Gunnery was all that survivable before, so now we'll do about same DPS but have LESS survivability. I have spent a ton of time grinding up gear for CM spec. So, now do I stick with CM or do I switch to grinding gear for Gunnery or just roll another (more favored) class is the question.

 

The only way to get them to review/rethink 1.2 changes again is to test, but it's a catch-22. It's very annoying that most of us CAN NOT test since we can't copy-character or instant-roll a level 50. They won't listen to non-tested feedback yet most of us can't test to give such feedback. What are we supposed to do?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Kunari

[-Jrock-]

I have an announcement to make, Commandos Are not ment for healing, Sages are. Think about it, if we where healers then why would we carry a big gun? I mean we can heal to make people avoid death, but not to be doing rapidly, then we wouldn't be able to attack. I'm not asking people to agree or disagree. I just wanted to say what was on my mind.