mattgyver Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I'm going to take back some of my comments about Tatooine. While the exhaustion zones are still something I hate, the overall design is good. I do wish there were less windmills and large structures. But overall they did a good job with the actual zones. I just wish there were some non-linear activities there: Level 50 Heroics, Rare resource nodes only found on Tat. And also another town or too would be good, something on the order of anchorhead but smaller maybe. Would be good if both factions could be in same towns as well. Edited March 29, 2012 by mattgyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm going to take back some of my comments about Tatooine. While the exhaustion zones are still something I hate, the overall design is good. I do wish there were less windmills and large structures. But overall they did a good job with the actual zones. I just wish there were some non-linear activities there: Level 50 Heroics, Rare resource nodes only found on Tat. And also another town or too would be good, something on the order of anchorhead but smaller maybe. Would be good if both factions could be in same towns as well. Tattoine is one of the best planets, there's only a couple of the exhaustion zones that are a bit jarring (there's one in the Dune Sea, I think, that you can litterly emote across but die if you try to run across it). The group v group PvP zone is nice too, but without better incentives no one uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Tattoine is one of the best planets, there's only a couple of the exhaustion zones that are a bit jarring (there's one in the Dune Sea, I think, that you can litterly emote across but die if you try to run across it). The group v group PvP zone is nice too, but without better incentives no one uses it. They should remove those damn exhaustion zones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) While annoying, the exhaustion zones serve two purposes. They prevent you from going out into the desert where there is no actual terrain, without them having to put an out-of-place mountain or canyon there. They also prevent you from entering the enemy spaceport town. Tatooine is the first planet where you can experience PvP, so they introduce it gradually. It starts with a perfectly safe town, then provides questing areas that are closer and closer to enemies -- culminating in a shared bonus series area. This ensures that the new level 25, having never seen PvP, isn't slaughtered by level 50s the moment he gets out of his ship hanger. He can at least make it to the speeder vendor to buy his first speeder. Edited March 29, 2012 by sjmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) While annoying, the exhaustion zones serve two purposes. They prevent you from going out into the desert where there is no actual terrain, without them having to put an out-of-place mountain or canyon there. They also prevent you from entering the enemy spaceport town. Tatooine is the first planet where you can experience PvP, so they introduce it gradually. It starts with a perfectly safe town, then provides questing areas that are closer and closer to enemies -- culminating in a shared bonus series area. This ensures that the new level 25, having never seen PvP, isn't slaughtered by level 50s the moment he gets out of his ship hanger. He can at least make it to the speeder vendor to buy his first speeder. The edge of the map is less jarring, I've experienced it before and its a better solution. How does the ganking work on a PvE server? They roll into the space port and taunt you into attacking them? Put some level 55 guards there and it's good. Or even better just open it up and make it a no attack zone (duels only). There is zero chance they will remove those exhaustion zones though. Edited March 30, 2012 by mattgyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekkamansoul Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh, the *********** irony... Remove all quests from SWTOR, have 'planets' simply be leveling zones, and these threads die out. Instead they will be replaced with a billion other complaints. Hate hate hate hate hate hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LingormR Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I personally feel that there is not enough theme park. As a matter of fact, I was disappointed thoroughly by the Corellia roller coaster. Yeah, it was noting like what they have at Six Flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh, the *********** irony... Remove all quests from SWTOR, have 'planets' simply be leveling zones, and these threads die out. Instead they will be replaced with a billion other complaints. Hate hate hate hate hate hate How is this Hate? I have two active subs, three copies of the game, and I log time almost every day. I'm trying to give feedback, I don't want to injure anyone or cause BW to throw up their hands and quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh, the *********** irony... Remove all quests from SWTOR, have 'planets' simply be leveling zones, and these threads die out. Instead they will be replaced with a billion other complaints. Hate hate hate hate hate hate The thing is, it is not an either/or option, and I've no idea why people think it should/would be. You could have both..... imagine that! love love love love love love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The thing is, it is not an either/or option, and I've no idea why people think it should/would be. You could have both..... imagine that! love love love love love love Give me an example of a successful MMO that has a nice mix of both themepark and sandbox. People want this perfect medium where themepark + sandbox = greatest MMO ever. But WoW isn't like that. It is themepark. The only sandbox MMO I've played is Eve Online, and I don't know if it even has 1 million subs. If themepark + sandbox is the best combo, why is the themepark MMO the one with 10m subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Fan boys Fan boys whatcha gonna do whatcha gonna do when they come for you Put a hot girl infront of me so they run away? Edited March 30, 2012 by DiabloDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Give me an example of a successful MMO that has a nice mix of both themepark and sandbox. People want this perfect medium where themepark + sandbox = greatest MMO ever. But WoW isn't like that. It is themepark. The only sandbox MMO I've played is Eve Online, and I don't know if it even has 1 million subs. If themepark + sandbox is the best combo, why is the themepark MMO the one with 10m subs? Show me an example of a Western "themepark" MMORPG (that isn't WoW) that has 25% of the peak subs of WoW? There isn't one. WoW was a one off, people have been trying to "out-WoW" WoW for years now and even ones that have done it have failed, because player don't want the same thing again. There'll never be a more WoWy MMORPG because WoW has literally explored all aspects of that, anything "new" will just be the same old same old (Blizzard understand this, hence keeping WoW alive rather than trying for a WoW2). The only MMORPG that might beat WoWs numbers is something that successfully marries the best bits of a WoW-a-like (really an EQ1-a-like) with something like a SWG/EvE-a-like and probably a DAoC/WAR-a-like. Innovation is needed, not endless regurgitation and wondering why it didn't sell as well the 10th time around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 It's actually the same thing in most computer games (not just MMORPGs) and films at the moment. Everything is sequels or trying to copy something that did well (once). Which usually results in formulaic garbage and marketing men puzzled as to why doing exactly the same thing for the 4th time didn't actually work as well as the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Give me an example of a successful MMO that has a nice mix of both themepark and sandbox. People want this perfect medium where themepark + sandbox = greatest MMO ever. But WoW isn't like that. It is themepark. The only sandbox MMO I've played is Eve Online, and I don't know if it even has 1 million subs. If themepark + sandbox is the best combo, why is the themepark MMO the one with 10m subs? 10 mil subs after breaking the previously existing paradigm, but now the cycle seems to be moving in another direction. The mass market thing has been done, and now the dust is settling. The consumer base that is out there is starting to show some impatience with either formula so a new game (or an existing one that is willing to evolve) may achieve something that is a combination. I didn't sub WoW, I just watched it destroy every game I loved with it's MMO-lite model. You can do a victory lap if you want, but weariness of the formula amongst the audience is getting significant. nice use of the Might makes Right argument btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 10 mil subs after breaking the previously existing paradigm, but now the cycle seems to be moving in another direction. The mass market thing has been done, and now the dust is settling. The consumer base that is out there is starting to show some impatience with either formula so a new game (or an existing one that is willing to evolve) may achieve something that is a combination. I didn't sub WoW, I just watched it destroy every game I loved with it's MMO-lite model. You can do a victory lap if you want, but weariness of the formula amongst the audience is getting significant. nice use of the Might makes Right argument btw. What might makes right argument? Why are you trying to insinuate something that isn't there? I'm just explaining that themepark = working formula. Rather than ask me to come up with yet more proof that it is true, sandbox people have to show me that sandbox is a guaranteed market. Eve Online doesn't even have one million subs, and this is a game that encourages people to have many accounts each, further reducing the number of real players. If the most successful MMO game in the world happens to be themepark, then themepark works. If WoW is slowly dying, it is less to do with the themepark formula being outdated and more to do with the fact that it is the same game for 8 years. For argument's sake, lets pretend that we are in an alternate universe that you are right, that themepark is a dying formula. You cannot change the fact that for 8 years, themepark works. You only look at the end stages of WoW, but you cannot deny themepark has never stopped WoW from entertaining people for 8 years. Do you tell companies to stop creating RPG games because no one plays the original Zelda game after 8 years? Do you tell companies to stop creating FPS games because no one plays the original Wolfenstein after 8 years? Do you tell companies to stop creating puzzle games because no one plays Tetris after 8 years? (trick question, people still play tetris) Yeah what a surprise, after 8 years people are bored of WoW. But that doesn't mean themepark is suddenly outdated, or sandbox, the unproven concept, is starting to thrive. Why do some RPG/FPS/puzzle games fail? Because they are terrible, not because the genre is outdated. Themepark is proven to be a guaranteed formula not just from WoW, but from the predecessor that it copied, Everquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanVenatici Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 We all try not to compare but reading through this topic we can't but help compare to our favorit. At the end of the day a sandbox MMORPG lasted 3 years for myself (EQ1) and this Theam Park ride (SWTOR) has only lasted 2 months and i'm bored. Enjoyed the story from 1 - 50 but thats it i'm afriad. I was about to say there are so many things missing from this game but then i keep reminding myself its a theam park and i new that from the start, it wasn't aimed at my type of playstyle right from the start. "Too much theme park" - afraid it is for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moromillas Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't think it's too much themepark. At least, it didn't feel like. The space battles, yeah definitely. But not so much leveling from 1 to 50, I didn't feel like I was being led around at all, and it seemed like my decisions made an impact on things. Just how it seemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Themepark is proven to be a guaranteed formula not just from WoW Sure, because the concept of themepark is dumb and casual enough to milk the mass market. Themepark is the summer blockbuster of gaming, it's shallow, full of FX, silly beyond belief and you see ads for it everwhere. Innovation value: Zero. Perhaps you are lured into buying a ticket, but after all it's a throw away product without any value to remember or revisit. Edited March 30, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymez Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I think it's way too much of a themepark mmo. Most of us have played WoW and have been there and done that, and a lot of us dont want to do that again. I feel that this game is too much like WoW in many many ways and that its not doing itself any favours by trying to compete with it. I dont currently know of any AAA sandbox mmo's apart from eve online which is a niche game to say the least. So i think that if this was a sandbox of sorts that it will at least be unique compared to other MMO's and will stand out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwwIX Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Themepark isn't the problem. The lack of socializing and incentives for grouping, however, is. This game doesn't put much emphasis on co-op at all. What's the point of continuing paying for a subscription when all i do is soloing? This game feels very contained and singleplayerish. It's KOTOR with a chat window. "Join a guild!" Oh, please, don't give me that ******** excuse. I've joined multiple guilds but that nothing to improve my co-op experience nor did it increase grouping. Not to mention that half of the people that were in my current Guild left just within this month alone. BioWare better start addressing this before it's too late. Edited March 30, 2012 by TwwIX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipce Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 It's way to much theme park. But I dont see any troubles creating more sandbox features in general without stepping on any "casual" player toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) If the most successful MMO game in the world happens to be themepark, then themepark works. No....... it only means it worked (exceptionally well) once. It doesn't therefore follow that it is the only idea that will work or can work (although you're right up their with most film and gaming executives if you believe it is). There have been so many themepark failed MMORPGs since WoW (and a few before), an awful lot more failed Themepark MMORPGs than Sandbox ones in fact. Which is why indy games are the new fashion, because many of them have been huge successes, yet still the suits don't get that it is their orginality that made them, copying them will only diminish them. Edited March 30, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Themepark isn't the problem. The lack of socializing and incentives for grouping, however, is. This game doesn't put much emphasis on co-op at all. What's the point of continuing paying for a subscription when all i do is soloing? This game feels very contained and singleplayerish. It's KOTOR with a chat window. "Join a guild!" Oh, please, don't give me that ******** excuse. I've joined multiple guilds but that nothing to improve my co-op experience nor did it increase grouping. Not to mention that half of the people that were in my current Guild left just within this month alone. BioWare better start addressing this before it's too late. think you are right to some degree. The station was a bad idea because it's a boring locale to congregate. should have been a city as the hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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