Agemnon Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 "C. when rogues got shadowstep, their ability to stunlock someone and take out most if not all of their life was removed. in fact rogues with shadowstep probably had the least amount of damage in burning crusade." Something's wrong when the class with the strictest positional requirements for damage also has the least output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Until someone else levels a smugg/agent past Chapter 2 and gets the buff for everyone on their mains. So you think you're rated WZ team is so awesome none of you are ever going to die during the match? LOLS. People die in WZs, and buffs need to be reapplied. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was trying to get across. Oh i got it just fine, you still don't realize, even tho many ppl try to help you see this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisAquilus Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Hey... so... In a huttball match, even the best operative is just there to try to keep mid clear for the shadows, juggernaughts and sorcerors. The game is nearly always determined by these classes. Thats the utility he's taking about, and operatives have very little. It wouldn't be a huge problem though, were it not for the nerfs incoming that also render us far less useful in our basic damage dealing role. If our damage gets nerfed too much, and it looks like this patch may do this, we are indeed going to be pretty damn useless. Edited March 26, 2012 by CanisAquilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broganthomas Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yeah I agree this class completely blows.. I don't get why all classes cannot be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Oh i got it just fine, you still don't realize, even tho many ppl try to help you see this... So help me out...What is your issue? You say you understand what I said and you don't agree. YET in 5 posts you don't give 1 reason why except gear....Did i miss something? Does gear now give Ops/Scoundrels some utility? I'll give you 1 more shot to exsplain yourself in an intelligent way, if you can't, I'm sorry but I'm just going to have to assume you don't know what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giladd Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) It's a simple question brother...Why would I bring you into an 8 man with the risk of playing huttball with a toon that has zero utility? If u can't answer it's ok...There is no answer.... For current patch, you'd bring an op dps in for the ability to wreck enemy healers. Their burst is amazing and with their stuns it doesn't allow cross healing. Combine an operative with a marauder and pretty much anything you target dies exceedingly fast. For 1.2 however... From what I've read at least, op dps will be terrible, but op healers will be the way to go with their buff in addition to being the most mobile healers. For operative dps though, ya, they're screwed. But things may have changed since I last checked up on it, so don't take my word for 100% accurate for 1.2 operative dps. Edited March 26, 2012 by Giladd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickTo Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Ok What utility do you have @ 50. Make the case why I would ever bring you as an OP/Scoundrel into my 8 man....GO AHEAD I"LL wait. I am a very sought out healer on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Well, I can't speak for the rest of the ops, but I didn't play one to be a healer. BW has already nerfed us twice and now 1.2 might just be the last nail in the coffin. Watch and see how many operatives you see playing in ranked warzones that aren't healers. Edited March 26, 2012 by Ozzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 so you picked a stealth, sneaky, do your own thing, cowardice class becuase you want to group scale pvp? this is what IVE found in my swtor pvp assasins/shadows... part of the team. help with objectives operatives/scoundrels.. sneak around, only unstealth to stunlock people 50% or below, are no where near the action.. only worried about grabbing the warzone buff and critting play a real class if u want to group pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) so you picked a stealth, sneaky, do your own thing, cowardice class becuase you want to group scale pvp? this is what IVE found in my swtor pvp assasins/shadows... part of the team. help with objectives operatives/scoundrels.. sneak around, only unstealth to stunlock people 50% or below, are no where near the action.. only worried about grabbing the warzone buff and critting play a real class if u want to group pvp While this is true it is only Bcuz the class is forced to have this playstyle. Not everyone that plays an op/scoundrel would do these things if we could just give them some utility out of stealth like a shadow has. An Op/Scoundrel out of stealth is a fish out of water...and that ain't right! they should have SOME utility ESP since the out of combat is like 15 sec in this game! Edited March 26, 2012 by Izola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 so you picked a stealth, sneaky, do your own thing, cowardice class becuase you want to group scale pvp? Cowardice class? If you want to have some credibility in this discussion, better leave the bullsh*t out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You people keep saying that Ops/Scoundrels have utility...WHERE? Dirty Kick? Maybe I'm wrong (LOL, I'm Never wrong) and maybe it's you guys/dolls that know what your talking about. If that's the case I am sorry for wasting everyones time. apparently you were not there...calling sub rogues a dot class when they had the weakest dots in the game with moderately high opportunity cost in burning crusade? and burst? they had zero burst. HARP (hemo-adrenaline rush-preparation) had burst, but that spec was an unholy abomination that was quickly squashed by blizzard. and yes, mutilate was overpowered because due to a mixture of gear, gylphs and talents, they could get twice as many attacks as any other spec of rogues in the first 10 seconds, and their special attacks hit HARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeebs Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 It's about time someone who plays as a 50 op made an informed and organized post on this subject. Just briefly I'm a fully geared valor 80+ conceal operative who runs the best PVP guild on my server, so I have a lot of experience playing this class. For those of you who question what an operatives utility is in huttball: 1. Offhealing the tank. This is an incredibly underrated ability. Many times I finish a huttball round with 100k+ healing, much of it on the ballcarrier. Those rounds I don't top damage, but my team wins because of the extra healing. People are focusing the real healers, interrupting them, cc'ing them, and they leave me alone to heal. I can crit for up to 4500 heal if I pop my adrenal. Imagine your tank between the two fire pits at 3k health, and suddenly he gets popped to 7500 health while the 2nd fire pit drops and he pops his defensive CDs. GG. 2. Flashbang. Have you ever had a geared tank ballcarrying just being swarmed by the other team and he's carried them on his back for a while then suddenly THE ENTIRE OPPOSING TEAM GETS STUNNED? Welcome to flashbang. If your team is any good they will stop attacking and let the opponents just sit there for 8 seconds completely powerless while the tank runs away. Oh yea, and after I stun their entire team, I throw in a couple of offheals and he makes it for the score. 3. Stealth control. If you actually do play high level huttball, you would understand that the key to winning is not always about damage/healing numbers. It is about ball control. Two geared and organized teams are going to score 80%+ times they get the ball, so the best way to win is to keep them from ever picking it up to begin with. Good teams both have people waiting in the middle for the ball after scores, fighting it out. Me? I can either wreck people with my burst, or if the opposing players in mid are pretty tough I can sit in stealth, time when the ball's going to come back, open HS on one person, debilitate another, and i've now stunned two people in complete surprise and I often times GRAB THE BALL. Save your defensive CD's for this moment, and evasion can basically make you invincible for 4s, long enough to get to the acid pit and pass to someone who's past the first fire or at the lamp post. Your team has scored before the opponent even knows what hit them. My teammates call me Tom Brady. 4. Soloing healers. Find me a class that can solo a healer besides operative dps. I can open, attack, debilitate, attack attack, root, even if they stun/root me, by the time i get to their slowed tendon severed runaway i can vanish and re-open. Yes, this requires using the 2m vanish cooldown, but this is one situation where I find vanishing to re-open worthwhile. I also have an interrupt. You get that #1 opposing healer down and suddenly the opponents are dropping like flies. 5. Stealthing in the endzone. If my team has decent ball control in the middle but is having trouble scoring due to huge DPS from the other team, making it 70-80% of the way to the line then dying, I can sit in the endzone UNDETECTED, tell my ballcarrier in voice chat where I am, they can throw it from HALFWAY ACROSS THE PIT to my stealthed position and I unstealth at the last second to catch the ball and score. The opponent is swarmed on the tank ballcarrier and as his health hits 20% and they think they've got us, the ball's suddenly in my hands in the endzone. This is on top of the fact that we have very good 1v1 damage and stealth allows us to choose our targets. I often times top damage in warzones. I have done over 600k damage before. We have our weaknesses... we can't sprint, we can't pull, we can't knockback. These things frustrate me too, but we can't haev everything. Can you imagine if your opponent could stealth, sprint/gap close, heal, stun the whole team, and knock people back? It would be ridiculous. I honestly haven't seen anyone actually use this class/spec to its full utility. People are too simple-minded about what constitutes "utility". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintervoid Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Scoundrels could use some more utility, but as a PvP Hybrid, I do just fine in all WZ's, including Huttball. Could I do better as a sage? Probably, but I prefer the Scoundrel playstyle. So why do I get invites as a scoundrel to premades? Because I am being invited, not the class I play. I may not have knockbacks and pulls in Hutball, but I pass well, I know how to minimize knock backs, get across fire pits, get open for passes, keep the ball carrier healed, can time CCs to grab the ball at Mid and many other little things that help win a game. I believe that most premades look for skilled players, not specific classes. All things being equal, yes, the Sage is a better pick in most cases. But IMO, the gap is not so wide as to pass over a good Scoundrel for an above average Sage. Also, as a Scoundrel healer hybrid, there are very few players that I fear one on one. I may not be able to kill them, but I won't die either. One of the players I fear is an Op. I am not just running around stalling her like most Marauders I deal with, I am running for my freaking life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanglish Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Right, thanks for taking 2mins away from my life... took u two mins to read that O>O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Cowardice class? If you want to have some credibility in this discussion, better leave the bullsh*t out. lol bullsh*t? i never see dps ops actualy helping in warzones.. when do i see them? when im half health or getting attacked by someone alrdy they'll poke their head out .. but only if they have every cd people who play stealth classes are a certain breed... theyre bad so theyll always want an option not to fight, and to pick fights.. cause theyre bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senojones Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 lol bullsh*t? i never see dps ops actualy helping in warzones.. when do i see them? when im half health or getting attacked by someone alrdy they'll poke their head out .. but only if they have every cd people who play stealth classes are a certain breed... theyre bad so theyll always want an option not to fight, and to pick fights.. cause theyre bad You're either incredibly ignorant or play on an awful server with awful players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 try rolling into a warzone being the first target everyone attacks and the easiest to spot (lightning) not because you're OP but because you DIE the easiest, and you'll get to see big crits on a sorc.. i mean sh*t i attack sorcs first too, i get bigger numbers and they die easiest now NERF that easily kill-able, target number one, with no defensive cooldown class take a seat with ur hide-in-the-corner crybaby stun lock class real classes are getting nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 buahah current operatives can still 100-0 people... False. Only possible with the triple hit Hidden Strike bug and consumables popped. Even then, it has to be on a low armor class with no defensive cooldowns up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You're either incredibly ignorant or play on an awful server with awful players. no bro YOU'RE TALENTED you can take some poor soul max expertise sorc form 100% to ~15% in a stun lock cause he didnt have his trinket but he's bad though... and you're good.. and your class is hard and UP plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) False. Only possible with the triple hit Hidden Strike bug and consumables popped. Even then, it has to be on a low armor class with no defensive cooldowns up. no defensive cd's oh like sorcs, who have none hrm oh but wait. even my jugg in heavy armor and in tank stance gets taken to 30% in opening stun lock from OPS dude your class is still OP.... Edited March 26, 2012 by wwkingms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) no defensive cd's oh like sorcs, who have none hrm oh but wait. even my jugg in heavy armor and in tank stance gets taken to 30% in opening stun lock from OPS dude your class is still OP.... Good for you. That's still not 100-0 is it? Also, bubble isn't a defensive cooldown? Who knew. Edited March 26, 2012 by CaptainInsano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Good for you. That's still not 100-0 is it? Also, bubble isn't a defensive cooldown? Who knew. roll a sorc, have the lowest hpa nd dmg mitigation and then tell me bubbles a defensive cd and not a FKING NECESSITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senojones Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 no bro YOU'RE TALENTED you can take some poor soul max expertise sorc form 100% to ~15% in a stun lock cause he didnt have his trinket but he's bad though... and you're good.. and your class is hard and UP plz I'll take that as both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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