I'll talk to you in game Smear.

I min max fairly well. Also having full augmented gear is quite nice.

1040 power. umm.. stat priority depends on my stats tbh. It's not like there is a big drop off from carnage to anni in total damage output, just anni tops out on the first two fights for me due to more uptime / sustained damage time. Carnage I didn't really have a big drop off in dps on those fights. Been thinking about trying rage for lulz this upcoming week in raids.

Fixed <3 I consistently top damage for my raid group as either annihilation or carnage. We finished EC 8-man HM at 20th worldwide I believe after other guilds with more points from previous kills killed kephess after us, so I'm a scrub, but a scrub in a good progression guild for evidence. From my experiences, Anni is better for the first 2 fights of EC while carnage is better for the last two fights in terms of pure damage from my experiences.

Operatives are still going around stunlocking and killing people from 100-0% in 3 seconds or less. NERF THEM IN 1.3 BIOWARE OR ME AND MY CLOSEST 3 FRIENDS WILL UNSUB!?!?!?!?!? Srsly, a major game update and no operative nerfs. What kind of bs is bioware trying to pull. 1.3 and no operative nerfs. This is some kind of sick joke, right?

NERF DPS OPERATIVES NAO. THEY ARE TOO OP FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. They stunlock people's computers so they can't even type for help on turrets =(

Ranked = more competitive gameplay and access to new appearance items.

They've already introduced ranked gear. The only difference from unranked = color change. Exact same stats. Oh, and you get access to a new mount and 2 new color crystals. Basically, appearance is the only change you get for ranked. But ya, 50 pvp is a lot more entertaining imo than 1-49.

Personally I throw an obfuscate when I get a thermal det on me since that means railshot will be near. I also will pop Cloak of pain obviously at the start of the fight and possibly saberward in tandem with that depending on the PT since that lowers their initial burst to ~20% of my hp when I'm up against a good one and gives me about 12 seconds of free damage on them along with self heals as anni to basically completely mitigate them for a set duration. And then of course DoT stacks + force choke when I get damaged a bit more and want free heals / just want to mitigate their damage for 4 seconds or so. Without a majority of your cooldowns up though, you're probably dead.

Thanks Jack for seeing my thread regarding how broken OP operatives are. I concur with your points entirely. It's pretty lame that they can cast deflection and kill the entire enemy team due to their blades doing one-shots if they hit a vital spot in an opponent. Let alone that any damage they suffer they have these personal healing nano-bots that go around and mend their wounds faster than they can acquire them. Ops are truly overpowered and deserve a nerf now before they make more subscribers unsub due to how blatantly overpowered they are.

Oh wait, I forgot to add some other good tidbits for why they deserve nerfs. *This one time, I saw an operative pop deflection and kill the entire enemy team before it wore off. *This one time, and operative jumped into the middle of 5 guise, killed 3 of them and then at 10% HE STEALTHED AWAY. THAT IS BS?!?!?!!?! I SO MAD WHEN DAT HAPPENS. Im getting tired of seeing same rotations, same builds copied from each other and same op carnaging ERR I MEAN CONCEALMENT that il say is worse than those of marauders/sentinels..they had op dmg but at least they could be melted if other players reacted on their assault. Balance the game soon, or ul have 4 I MEAN 5 subbs less.

They can still maybe kill somebody at 20% hp when they get their stealth opener. This is unacceptable, please nerf or me and my closest 4 friends will unsub. Also, all of you "pro operatives" that think you don't have a faceroll easy godmode class, take your trolling to another thread!

Game also completely changes at 50 tbh. Ravage is pretty strong in lowbie which is what you're getting hit like a truck by. Isn't nearly as effective at 50.

More marauders = more chance at failing. A bad marauder is the absolute worst class to have for pvp. Anyone bad at another class will perform better than a bad marauder. And seeing how 90%+ of them are terrible, that generally means more marauders = more fail. Assassins I'll agree with. Tank assassins in dps gear is perhaps the only thing in this game that is truly unbalanced, and even then just a little bit. And unlike a bad marauder, bad assassins assuming tank spec will still do good because honestly it's a fairly simple class to play and to be at least decent at.

Ximix: Are there any plans to revisit ability animation issues between mirror classes? For example, several "instant" Sage abilities actually have 1-2 second activations while Sorcerer abilities activate and deal damage instantly. Just like the Commando vs Bounty Hunter animations, in PvP these discrepancies can be huge. Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): Whenever you use an "instant" ability, the server receives and process that action without any animation dependency (read: instantly), but the impact VFX and flytext are synced to the attack animation on your client. This is done to make the game look good and give attacks a sense of weight and impact without affecting timing or balance. There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage, and that's something we're fixing in 1.3. The other real delays that we're aware of are in Smash and Force Sweep, but we don't yet have a fix for those. If you believe additional abilities have delays or are not mirrored, you'd have to point them out specifically. With the exception of the abilities I've already mentioned, so far our investigations have shown that the discrepancies being reported are the intentional ones that make the game look good and feel right and, to reiterate, do not impact timing or balance. http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-may-25th-2012-%E2%80%93-special-edition-game-update-1.3

I do realize that the DoT removal is not tied to the vanish ability, however both stealth classes do get it in the form of Force Shroud and Cure. Honestly, I'm not sure which I'd rather have for PvP between force camo and actual stealth / vanish. 4 seconds of 50% reduced damage + drop target is quite nice on a 45 second cooldown, however being able to pick my fights with actual stealth and being able to drop combat and out of combat heal is pretty nice. This is strictly from a solo queue / 1v1 perspective though. Against a player like me in a 1v1 situation, I'd much rather have the 3 minute cooldown vanish so that I could get away and heal up on my own terms since a marauder using force camo on me will die pretty much as soon as it goes away when they resurface if they're lower hp which is common. However, force camo does have a lot more options to it for a marauder than a true stealth for how to use it, unfortunately without the marauder being designed around being an actual stealth class we won't know the full potential of it. So tl;dr - Stealth classes are better off with vanish most likely, marauders are better off with force camo most likely since each class is designed around having those abilities rather than swapped.

Oh, I fully agree that it sucks to be a merc / commando in pvp atm. I got to valor 56 back in January before rolling a new 50 on my merc. Personally, I think it's lame that you have basically the same mobility as a marksmen sniper, but you don't gain the benefits of cover or roots or interrupt as Arsenal / Gunnery. Pyro was the only spec I really had fun on on my merc and idk, the kiting potential of it is kind of nice truth be told. 1.3 should hopefully be better for mercs/commandos because as of the moment, they're easily the weakest class in both PvE and PvP. Although, concealment operative may be worse, I don't play one and all the ones I knew spec'd to heals after 1.2.

False about force camo being > actual stealth. Real stealth classes can cleanse their DoTs before going into stealth and stealth removes them from combat. I would take out of combat DoT free over force camo any day of the week. Yes, let's make Undying rage cost half of your hp for 2.5 seconds of 99% damage reduction. Because you know, since 3 GCDs isn't short enough, let's let it last for 1. As far as well played marauders > all comment, well played assassins will kick a marauder's butt any day of the week as far as 1v1s go. Well played snipers will as well. If marauders truly were the godmode class of this game, then I'd win when I have 5 marauders on my team instead of losing every match with that many. Marauders are extremely easy to counter.

Can you clarify yourself a bit better please? Really don't understand what you're saying. As far as fotmrerollers, I notice a lot more new 50 assassins / PTs then I do marauders tbh.

Assassin's, Sorcs, Snipers, and Operatives I'd imagine.

My first 50 was a merc actually. Gameplay of it was really boring to me so I rerolled in jan and got a 2nd 50 in feb. Still play it occasionally. Heals are nice, 2 KBs are very nice, non-channeled stun, instant mez, 20% armor pen for your entire ops if arsenal, amazing snares in pyro, lackluster snares in arsenal. Kbs are fairly undervalued, but they are quite nice for utility. Although, I'll admit to being wrong with using the word Utility for what marauders severely lack, I probably should have said CC instead since that's what I lined up in my mind more so than utility. Still will have to say though that non-carnage spec'd marauders are one of the worst Utility classes in the game, but not the worst. Roots aren't effected by resolve. Only time they don't go off is if they're on an ability that can be parried/dodged/etc.. which is what all the marauder roots are on. Roots are different than stuns / mezzes though, so make sure you have your terminology right. Mara disappearing = Force Camo, 4 second invis that doesn't drop you out of combat, 45 second cooldown. Then those players are terrible or you're exaggerating. I've 1v3'd / 1v2'd people on my marauder, but those players were terrible and if at least one of them were competent, I would have lost. But it's not like it's just marauders that can do that, I've seen PTs, Assassins, Juggs and even an exceptional sage and merc do it. 1v2 and 1v3 situations are dependent on player skill more than anything else, outside of a major gear gap like 300+ expertise for 1v2, 500+ for 1v3+.

Quite possibly has changed skill wise, before if you were terrible at a mara/sent you were a completely wasted slot on the team. I still personally view it that way based off of my experiences on my server. And with that said, I can 1v1 just about anyone on my server, however one person that stands out that I can't is a sage named Hype. It's mainly due to his spec that I honestly don't see why you wouldn't run something similar on a sage for pvp as either healer or dps (he varies between specs per role he's looking to perform, but pretty much keeps the same utility regardless and is the top sage/sorc player on server regardless of the role he fills), But that's for pure pvp, if you PvE and obviously don't want to spend a lot respec'ing, I can see why people wouldn't roll it. We have the same survivability as an operative out of stealth when we don't have DCD's up, so since we don't get stealth and have terrible CC, we get DCDs. Roots ignore resolve and are as effective as a stun for marauders.

If it was almost anyone on the forum outside of Jediduckling, I would take it seriously. Man, you are like the worst pvp forum poster on here from what I've seen with your threads. Marauders are not OP. Play one in 50 brackets and you'll see why we have what we have. It's a strong class, not OP, not UP, balanced.

I kill most sorcs np, however on my server there is one that knows how to play his class to the fullest that I cannot kill due to you know, speccing correctly and using his abilities to the fullest potential for kiting when he's in dps. With how much he's able to CC me and get free dps uptime it's ridiculous. And frankly, if you 3v1'd them with everyone starting at full hp, then they're terrible players or playing classes that are terrible in lowbies. But you know, I also stated in my original post that lowbie pvp doesn't matter at all for balancing issues. So invalid point is invalid. Since when do defensive cooldowns count as utility? Defensive Cooldowns are defensive cooldowns. And by worst utility in the game I mean: 10 second speed buff that is only useful in combat unless you spec carnage. It's not a terrible ability, but the dps loss you gain from it is quite substantial. So for utility, you hurt yourself, unlike any other class with this ability. Carnage is the one tree where I'll give you that we don't have the worst utility in the game. Berserk healing, ya, 6% once every what, 40 seconds or so for all teammates in range = amazing utility amirite? AoE mez is a nice ability, I said so in my original post. 3 second 10m channeled stun, WOO HOO! You know, every other AC in the game outside of tank juggernauts don't get at a minimum a 4 second instant stun that they get free damage up-time with and can't have a teammate interrupt so they don't have to blow a CC break on it. 12s snare that any class with a cure outside of maybe dps sages can cure off. Sure it's spammable if you have the rage, but it's extremely situational when it's an actually a good ability to use for utility. 20% heal debuff is nice, I'll grant you that. Accuracy debuff is nice when you use it for group utility, I'll grant you that. Interrupt - Meh, not sure what to classify this as. If you want to say utility then alright. Every class in the game outside of mercs/commandos get one, nothing really special. Sure you get a 6 sec one if you spec anni, not terrible, not uber amazing either. 2 second root on leap, 3 if carnage and spec for it. Can be parried to make it completely void. Really only stands out as an above mediocre ability when there are multiple leapers doing in on a single target in tandem. And since you forgot to add it like I did in my original post: Bloodthirst - 15% damage increase for all people in your party that are in range for 15 seconds. Usable twice a game. This is a pretty awesome ability when used, no denying that. But it's also countered by only being useable twice a game. If you're carnage spec'd you gain: I don't remember the exact duration of the root, but it's a 3-5 second root on a 10m range every 15 seconds from deadly throw. 1 extra second to force leap root 3 second root on ravage assuming it doesn't get parried or interrupted via CC. You lose: Berserk healing, on noes. Ok, so maybe you're right. Maybe operatives beat us out for the worst utility in the game, but if we're not at the bottom of the list, we're near it. And for me personally, good CC, taunts, and pulls greatly outweigh marauder utility by a large margin. Oh, and sniper roots are pretty amazing utility as well. The defensive potential in warzones with them is amazing. Final note on the matter: It's not like I'm saying marauders are weak or underpowered, I'm simply stating that we're not this god mode overpowered that so many people think we are. Not a single class in this game is godmode. We're frankly balanced quite well with this game. We were as annihilation spec pre 1.2 as well, maybe a bit OP for people who don't have a cure button / didn't know what it was, but that tree was nerfed in 1.2 with the other two being brought in line with that nerfed tree for pvp.

So many blatant lies and misinformation in this thread... I've been playing a marauder since February, we're not OP. We're a strong 1v1 / healer harassment class, we have the worst utility in game, we are extremely squishy when CD's are not up, and we are the class that gets negated the easiest by CC, which is out of control with how much there is in this game. Here is Terminology I'm going to use and define since some people really don't know what they're talking about and call a CC something a lot different than it is: Stun - Abilities greyed out, cannot move. Snare - Movement speed reduced, but above 0% Root - movement speed reduced to 0%, able to still use abilities Mez - Abilities greyed out, cannot move, broken on damage taken. CC - Crowd Control, any of the abilities listed above are considered CC. And apologies for the text wall, I have ~6 pages where I got the highlight quotes for. 12 second slow that takes 2 rage to use. If you spam it, you're losing a lot of dps. And yes, before level 20 as a marauder is as faceroll easy as any other class in the game. Once you, you know, actually get it higher level you'll see how much more difficult it is then any other class in this game. Unlike any other class in the game outside of maybe healing, you have more than your standard 5 button rotation. You have ~15+ that you're going to be using and outside of the standard 7, are all situationally used and you have to second guess opponents to use them successfully. Oh and also, you're flat out lieing if you say you can't cure their snare or dots. Every class in the game outside of possibly a dps sorc/sage can cure marauder DoTs / snares. Until the ravage buff, marauders were terrible in lowbie pvp until ~46. The Ravage buff is a bit strong in lowbie pvp, but honestly who cares, it's lowbie pvp. Must be nice to be able to crit for over 5k when you pop all of your cooldowns. In rage spec, marauders can easily when they do that, but rage isn't really amazing unless working in tandem with a coordinated team. Annihilation marauders can crit for 5k on a person if they pop everything and find someone wearing less than recruit gear in expertise while being full BM or better themselves. 4k DoT ticks, lies. It's more like 2.5k when you're against someone equally geared when the 4 DoTs crit. Not exactly OP since you know, you get 3k+ thrashes as a tank Assassin, let alone your hard hitting shocks. Tank assassins are the only thing worse than a sniper for a marauder to face, since they can negate pretty much all of marauder damage by popping various cooldowns. Ya, the nerf to annihilation and the buff to the other two trees to bring them to the level of the nerfed annihilation = buff. Marauders are harder to play than the other classes because they require you to be situationally aware and to know the intricates of your class and your opponents class to be remotely effective assuming two equally skilled players. No other class needs to know that to be effective in pvp. Lol, best utility in game, ya right. We have a channeled stun, being one of two ACs in the game that can have their stuns interrupted. We have an AoE mez, which is nice. In carnage, we have roots which are nice, but you trade massive survivability for that spec. Our predation is a nice buff, but we sacrifice a good amount of damage to use it. Bloodthirst is amazing the two times you can pop it a warzone, can't argue that that isn't one of the best buffs in the game atm. The best utility in the game award however goes to Sorcs or Powertechs. Sorcs have literally every CC ability in the game and they all fill lower resolve than other class equivalents... Their CC's really aren't weaker than other class CCs either is the kicker. I would say this applies only for dps sorcs, except a pvp spec'd healer sorc will have the CC as well, or at least good ones do. I do agree though that in lowbie pvp, marauders are pretty OP when you have like 3 of them and they all hit ravage, pretty much an instant gibb. That isn't the game in upper end brackets though. 3 rage spec'd marauders would be pretty deadly in a warzone match if they were working together, but it's not much more powerful than 3 of most dps ACs working together in a warzone. And a 3v1 match, you should lose. You will never 3v1 good players, ever. You will only 3v1 bad players with you being exceptional. Lol @ sorcs dieing in 5 seconds if they kite. Good sorcs will beat a marauder any day of the week since they can CC a marauder to death. If the marauder has a full resolve bar from a previous fight, then yes, the marauder has the potential to beat a good kiting sage. I would have to know if dps sages can cure physical or not, I'm not entirely sure, but if they can then they can just cure off most of the marauder damage and keep them far away from the sorc with CC abilites + force sprint. A sorc will not kill you that quick, but against a competent dps sorc, which are very few and far between, you will lose as a marauder. Most sorcs, if you lose to them 1v1, ya, you're bad. The few exceptions out there will kill you though due to their massive CC and amazing kiting abilities.