Does an MMO need a story?

[JediElf]

The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion.

 

SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid.

 

I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective.

 

Nail. Head. Hit.

 

SWTOR gets right what so many games get wrong. It actually cares about it's own story, and it's story is the actual focus of the game.

 

It's not a game that's for every gamer, and it shouldn't need to be.

Edited March 25, 2012 by JediElf

[Gankdalf_]

The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion.

 

SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid.

 

I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective.

 

Sorry but I think you have me confused with the steriotypical wow player. In the 6 years I played wow I never did a single raid, nor did I do any of the rep grinds, nor did I even complete a top level dungeon. Your just small minded and tar all wow players with the same brush.

 

I know exactly what an MMO is and I can tell you WOW WAS a great one, the fact that it is the most successfull MMO that has ever been made back this up. SWTOR on the other hand is a terrible MMO which is why most of the people have left.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Gankdalf_

[Inzuher]

The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion.

 

SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid.

 

I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[btsager]

All MMORPG's have a story, the only thing that SWTOR did was put a voice to it. They took away the need to read the story and allow you to hear it which can be considered better or more immersible. And the story in SWTOR is more personable because each class has their own story part that is different then others. Edited March 25, 2012 by btsager

[Achromatis]

You can say TOR isnt enough of an MMO but the problem isnt the story, its the things like sharding. Instanced story segments if fine, and I think they actually did them really well(theyre infrequent, and always next to other class story instances).

 

I dont think the focus on story is a negative.

[Sarfux]

And I'm going to challenge you... you claim much more than recent MMOs have in terms of actually being an MMO.

So which part of TOR is more MMO than any MMO currently on the market? You're examples should stand you well if that's the case.... but we all know there are none, because this really is a SPG with tacted on MMO elements, and poorly done at that.

 

and how exactly is it a single player game?

[OddballEasyEight]

Sorry but I think you have me confused with the steriotypical wow player. In the 6 years I played wow I never did a single raid, nor did I do any of the rep grinds, nor did I even complete a top level dungeon. Your just small minded and tar all wow players with the same brush.

 

I know exactly what an MMO is and I can tell you WOW WAS a great one, the fact that it is the most successfull MMO that has ever been made back this up. SWTOR on the other hand is a terrible MMO which is why most of the people have left.

 

No offence, but what DID you do?

 

you didnt raid, you didnt do any of the rep grinds and you never completed a top level dungeon...

 

so... what then? PvP? RP? what?

[DelopHora]

Let me make it clear that Massive Multiplayer Online Role Play Game genre is what we are talking about here.

 

SWTOR lacks the first "M" thing: it's not MASSIVE, and it will never be so, it's in game design. A hero is only one out there. Only one person can kill the emperor who ruled for thousands of years. Only one team can free a man imprisoned 300 years ago. etc.

 

When everyone's a hero, no one really is. Then the matter of measuring the hero-ness goes to stupid things: how fast you grind, how great you're, and so on.

 

Update 1.2 brings on something in Massive direction: ranked PvP and tournaments, Legacy connections... But doing so it goes away from "story driven" part.

 

Game designers must have courage to let the players "drive the story" themselves.

 

Examples?

 

Global Legacy system. I want to confront a villain and find out he's my father. Why should I confront one of my own characters? (or I even can not have no empire characters) Legacy connections should be global, i.e. extendable to other players. One tree, one relation network.

 

Cross-faction flashpoints, or non-direct PvP. Like Collicoid war games, but with real opposite-faction team.

 

Vacant places on top. Have the chance to actually become the Jedi Council master, the sith-ari, the Fleet commander, with actual power to rule the war. And defend yourself from within (from others willing to occupy the place) and from outside (from bounty hunters).

 

SWTOR is a great MORPG. And it's moving, slowly, towards becoming an MMORPG.

[OddballEasyEight]

and how exactly is it a single player game?

 

Oooh, let me guess what hes going to answer on this one:

 

"you can solo all the way to lvl 50" (because we all know you cant do that in WoW right? hardly anyone does that in WoW right??? )

 

"theres nothing to do at end-game" (because theres just dozens and dozens of raids and hard mode dungeouns that are actually played at end-game in WoW now right? not just a few... right?)

[OddballEasyEight]

Let me make it clear that Massive Multiplayer Online Role Play Game genre is what we are talking about here.

 

SWTOR lacks the first "M" thing: it's not MASSIVE, and it will never be so, it's in game design. A hero is only one out there. Only one person can kill the emperor who ruled for thousands of years. Only one team can free a man imprisoned 300 years ago. etc.

 

When everyone's a hero, no one really is. Then the matter of measuring the hero-ness goes to stupid things: how fast you grind, how great you're, and so on.

 

Update 1.2 brings on something in Massive direction: ranked PvP and tournaments, Legacy connections... But doing so it goes away from "story driven" part.

 

Game designers must have courage to let the players "drive the story" themselves.

 

Examples?

 

Global Legacy system. I want to confront a villain and find out he's my father. Why should I confront one of my own characters? (or I even can not have no empire characters) Legacy connections should be global, i.e. extendable to other players. One tree, one relation network.

 

Cross-faction flashpoints, or non-direct PvP. Like Collicoid war games, but with real opposite-faction team.

 

Vacant places on top. Have the chance to actually become the Jedi Council master, the sith-ari, the Fleet commander, with actual power to rule the war. And defend yourself from within (from others willing to occupy the place) and from outside (from bounty hunters).

 

SWTOR is a great MORPG. And it's moving, slowly, towards becoming an MMORPG.

 

how many killed the lich king again?

Edited March 25, 2012 by OddballEasyEight

[DelopHora]

Ah, I don't know. I haven't played WoW.

 

Nor SWG.

 

I don't think such game exists/ed. I hope it will. But it's my idea of a perfect MMORPG.

Edited March 25, 2012 by DelopHora

[OddballEasyEight]

Ah, I don't know. I haven't played WoW.

 

Nor SWG.

 

I don't think such game exists/ed. I hope it will. But it's my idea of a perfect MMORPG.

 

So what youre saying is that no MMO is actually MMO?

Edited March 25, 2012 by OddballEasyEight

[Oofpez]

For me, the only reason I'm playing this game, and not any other MMOs is BECAUSE of the story.

 

I've played WoW, but it never grabbed me, and I couldn't even get to level 10, because it was just so Maplestoryish. If I wanted a game where I could commit mass slaughter of animals, I would play Maplestory... at least THAT'S free to play. I dabbled a little into Rift as well. Once again, I couldn't be bothered to keep playing, but I told myself, the endgame's going to be fun, just bear with it. I did, and when I got to 50... I was just so burned out, I played a little of the endgame, but just couldn't get into it.

 

In essence, people want different things from their games. I'm a player who doesn't have much time on their hands, and wants the 1-50 experience to be where I get immersed. Me and my guild of 60 are all college students, and don't have much time to play at all (EE ftw!). My friends and I play together on a constant basis (I have no trouble getting into 4 man heroics), which made this game feel more MMO than any of the other MMORPGs I've played before.

[sjmc]

I don't know that MMOs necessarily need a story. WWII Online comes to mind where the players generate their own story by attacking and defending.

 

But an MMORPG that involves PVE combat can benefit from having some sort of story.

 

I like how SWTOR has a number of class stories, so each run through with a new character is a little bit different. However, they all tie into an over story of cold war with planet-based stories as well.

 

The class stories give you a basis to build your individual character upon. All troopers get assigned to Havoc Squad. Some choose to go dark and some light (and other somewhere in between). Those quest choices will lead you to develop a persona for your character. Bringing along a different companion will make it a slightly different experience as well.

[Kalfear]

The more experienced gamers like myself predicted this

 

I played WOW for 6 years

 

LOL! You and I have vastly different idea of what EXPERIENCED means.

 

But to answer your topic title.

 

Yes, MMORPGs need story. The one thing TOR has gotten almost universal praise for is making the leveling journey matter again. Now more experienced MMORPG players (Pre WOW. Being a fry guy at McDonalds doesnt make someone a "experienced" cook after all) will say the leveling was to fast and to easy (and they correct) but that doesnt hide the fact that story made the leveling interesting.

 

The problem is because of the speed and ease (all problems created by WOW btw) you feel no connection to your character, story or no story. There is no connection so people can walk away with out a second thought.

 

The future MMORPGs (ones going into development now, not the old system ones like SW, GW2, AA thaqt use the old system and standard) how ever will now have individual storylines for each class and Voice over work. That much TOR got right.

 

Your right that the 3 month mark will be a big drop off point in subs (well unless your speaking to a fanboi who claims that 10 people on fleet at 7pm is normal and acceptable population and there is no drop off despite same fleet having over 100 at 7pm nightly 4 weeks prior) but thats doesnt mean TOR was a flat out failure.

 

Things that will carry forward

 

- fully voiced will become mandatory, already people that leave TOR find they cant stomach the endless reading of the older games. They not TOR fans but in that aspect they have been converted.

 

- Full storylines per class (hopefully a day will come where you have storylines per build so one class might have 3-4 different storylines designed to their skill set specifically)

 

- Companions. This was a fantastic concept and EA only touched the bare minimum surface of it. So much potential left unexplored and undeveloped.

 

- Amazing space (not as in deep space combat but as in total landmass). Games will have to be bigger now thanks to TOR but hopefully they will use their land space better.

 

- less instaning. While personally I dont might the instancing, I do feel it works against the MMO concept. Or at least the way TOR used it. I have seen instancing used better (DAoC catacombs comes to mind). TOR was to much though.

 

And more.

 

EA hit on some great concepts, EA just didnt expand and develop those concepts and figured everyone would just accept barely developed forms. And they didnt. They wanted more from word go.

 

Mostly though, I think you will find future MMOs will devote more time and energy to socialization (not raiding, not pvp, but real interaction) and community as THATS where TOR falls short. The mods can claim these forums are a community all they want, its not and there is also no community inside game.

 

TOR did ALLOT right in concept but also showcased that MMOs need to be a social affair. Im not talking forced grouping either, you can have socialization, interaction, community with out forced grouping. EA completely missed the boat in that aspect though and continue to miss the boat in their patchs and updates.

[Kalfear]

Originally Posted by Sarfux

and how exactly is it a single player game?

 

Oooh, let me guess what hes going to answer on this one:

 

"you can solo all the way to lvl 50" (because we all know you cant do that in WoW right? hardly anyone does that in WoW right??? )

 

"theres nothing to do at end-game" (because theres just dozens and dozens of raids and hard mode dungeouns that are actually played at end-game in WoW now right? not just a few... right?)

 

Ill answer for him.

 

Its solo game not because you can solo to 50 but because you can solo to 50 with out speaking or interacting with a single other player the entire time. IE, as in your playing offline by yourself in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME!

 

I can play hours and hours and hours and not see a single word typed in general chat by anyone.

 

Its a single player game because there is no in game community!

 

I can tell by your above responces you dont want to see that but the majority out there already do.

 

This game is almost the perfect

 

MASSIVE SINGLE PLAYER ROLE PLAYING GAME!

 

As a single player game this game is excellent (and I still sub because its a excellent single player game).

 

As a MMORPG its one of the worst ever as it completely misses the boat on what a MMORPG offers and entails.

 

And thats got nothing to do with Raids and PVP as Raiding and PVP do not define MMORPGs. They are just added aspects to the core being.

 

Cant say it anymore clear but I suspect you will feign confussion or ignorance of what is being said.

 

But deep down we all know the truth, no matter what is typed on the forums by those in denial of reality.

[sjmc]

Its solo game not because you can solo to 50 but because you can solo to 50 with out speaking or interacting with a single other player the entire time. IE, as in your playing offline by yourself in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME!

You can do that. Or you can group and do heroics and flashpoints, or you can do PVP warzones, or you can craft and trade your wares with other players.

 

 

 

I can play hours and hours and hours and not see a single word typed in general chat by anyone.

I suppose it depends on your server. General chat on my server is usually pretty busy with people arranging datacron missions or groups, or informing people that enemy players were spotted near such and such a base.

 

I rarely quest without running into other friendly players, and enemy players on planets where that can happen.

 

Its a single player game because there is no in game community!

A lot of the in-game community is within guilds/groups where you won't be seeing it if you are not in those guilds/groups.

 

This game is almost the perfect

MASSIVE SINGLE PLAYER ROLE PLAYING GAME!

As a single player game this game is excellent (and I still sub because its a excellent single player game).

I agree that the solo aspects of SWTOR are pretty excellent, at least to level 47 (which is as high as I have reached so far).

 

As a MMORPG its one of the worst ever as it completely misses the boat on what a MMORPG offers and entails.And thats got nothing to do with Raids and PVP as Raiding and PVP do not define MMORPGs. They are just added aspects to the core being.

It has most of the features that I am looking for -- the ability to group, the ability to form guilds, the ability to chat with other players and group up to do warzones, the ability to trade items with other players.

 

It could probably use more social features and I expect that at least some are coming, sooner or later.

 

By getting the basic solo functionality in place, I have something to do while they work on other stuff and while I'm not doing PVP warzones.

Edited March 25, 2012 by sjmc

[Cerion]

Sadly today/tomorrow is going to be a very dark time in the life of SWTOR as a huge amount of subs will be due, these are the people who got into the game just before launch.

 

We are three months down the road and it's fair to say it's been a total disaster for Bioware and EA. The more experienced gamers like myself predicted this back in December with uncanny accuracy http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=89529 but am not here to gloat.

 

I just think that this whole game is a great example of what a well oiled PR machine is capable of doing. Now that the game has been played and reviewed it's clear that the PR hype was a load of rubbish as usual.

 

So why has it failed then?

 

 

What a bunch of unsubstantiated b.s. You state an unsubstantiated premise (failure) as a fact, and then proceed to base your argument off of that. Horrible rhetorical fallacy.

 

I also find it amusing that you then try to bring in a previous post as if this is somehow evidence of your claims. Again, another rhetorical fallacy.

 

I weep for the education system. I truly do.

[Cerion]

<snip> a lot of sensible responses to Kalfear <snip>

 

Players like Kalfear want forced grouping. One can only speculate why. I certainly have no trouble grouping when I want to, with the players I want to group with.

[Oberon]

I can't say that MMOs need a story but I know this one does!

[Darth_Moonshadow]

If a Star Wars MMO didn't have a story, it's not Star Wars.

[Darth_Grissom]

Ultima Online had a small back story but that was it. It was up to us players to create a story for our characters. The reason for this is because when we logged in, we WERE our characters. It was a virtual WORLD where you were immersed and you were who you logged in as for a few hours.

 

Your adventures were your story and everyday in Ultima Online was different.

 

Those times are gone. Now its theme park raid or die for gear and thats it, sad indeed.

[Fantazm]

stuff

 

Don't use "the majority" please. You have no idea if you speak for the majority or not. Unless a poll is taken of every single player in the game nobody knows what the majority think.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyhoo..........yes, for me this game does need one. I'd have been bored rigid ages ago and probably unsubbed by now without it.

[Touchbass]

Players like Kalfear want forced grouping. One can only speculate why. I certainly have no trouble grouping when I want to, with the players I want to group with.

 

That is such a load of bullcrap. There is no way you can do that unless you play this game to the point of where it no longer healthy. Judging by your attitude you have surpased that point many moons ago.

[LordSoviet]

wow feels dead and still has 5x more subs during a downtime in an expanion.. what does that say?