BCBull Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 in before closing. WOW equals medieval fantasy cr**. No thanks. BW should have looked at concepts of GW2, Archeage and The Secret World instead, not a ten year old MMO oldie with Pandas. This right here man, or even create... SWTOR was out dated upon release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oofpez Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This is a SWTOR forum. Why are we discussing WoW ad nauseum again?????? They have their very own game forum for discussing their game. Because if it was in the WoW forum, it would be buried by people screaming how WoW sucks, and that they're entitled to every second of the MoP beta. Ah... MMO forums, gotta love 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 There are people in WoW, including myself when I still played, that thought that cross-server LFD was a scourge that shouldn't be there. It allowed people to be even bigger [insert unflattering adjective] than they already are due to the removal of consequence. Vote kicks here and there, stealing people's loot for their off spec, deliberating aggroing a pack of mobs and then leaving the dungeon causing a wipe, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I find it interesting that he said that about TOR publicly, but he's spot on. Games need compete with WoW as it is, not as it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I find it interesting that he said that about TOR publicly, but he's spot on. Games need compete with WoW as it is, not as it was. tell me one mmo that got it spot on out the door. go on i dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 tell me one mmo that got it spot on out the door. go on i dare you. The point is, if you're going to compete with something you have to at least match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) The point is, if you're going to compete with something you have to at least match it. And thats the key, bioware stated they never were competing with wow, the only people that said that are the playerbase, they created the core of there game and are building on it. So as you have proven no mmo not even the all mighty wow got it correct on launch and only after they had got some live time in and see how people play there game did they adjust the game to suit there playerbase based on what they wanted in the game. They are updating and adding new content and designs into the game at a fast pace. they are delivering on what people wanted in house without having to rely on 3rd partys and the game will be better for it in the long run. Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My favorite comparison to how stupid the argument of "World of Warcraft didn't have this feature at start" is a cell phone. 10 years ago cell phones didn't have G4 capability, 8 mega pixel cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access, and "the cloud". But do you think a customer is going to listen to you if you tell them the new cell phone they are buying today is on par with a cell phone 10 years ago? And your argument is my top stupid counter argument. You simply don't get what we are dealing with here. Building a house in 1980 and is has kitchen, bathroom, roof, doors and windows. Build the same house in 2000 and it has kitchen, bathroom, roof, doors and windows. The 2000 house use advanced technology, so the windows and roof doesn't leak as much heat or the doors is harder to break open. Now the 1980 house has gotten expansions over the years, so now it has a garage a garden full of grown plants, etc. The 2000 can't in the same amount of time add a garage and it MOST definitely can't GROW a garden, like the old house had. Same with SWTOR, some of it's tech is better than what WoW has, some is the same, because we haven't INVENTED better ways to build houses since we invented conrete (that made it way faster) and the same for programming both in the MMO world and any other large scale enterprise dev project their is LIMITS to how fast our current level of technology can build stuff. A new Police case system, takes 5-10 years to develope and thats been the same for the past 20+ years, no one has been able to invent a way to develope things faster, they have taken how to open a door and polished it a bit or changed to smaller windows to let out less heat and stuff like that, but it still takes them X hours to install that window no matter it's size. Talking about 200-300m as going directly to development is so incredible stupid thinking, YOU CAN*T SIMPLY THROW MORE MONEY AT SOMETHING AND DEVELOPE FASTER. Most of that money went into Voice Over actors bank account, not developers. It's NOT POSSIBLE for two developers to sit and write half the lines of the same piece of code. PERIOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 And thats the key, bioware stated they never were competing with wow, the only people that said that are the playerbase, they created the core of there game and are building on it. So as you have proven no mmo not even the all mighty wow got it correct on launch and only after they had got some live time in and see how people play there game did they adjust the game to suit there playerbase based on what they wanted in the game. They are updating fast and adding new content and designs into the game at a fast pace. they are delivering on what people wanted in house without having to rely on 3rd partys and the game will be better for it in the long run. They ARE competing with WoW... regardless of what they say. And if you want to get technical, none other that EA CEO John Ricitiello stated something along the lines of "we're not going to be content to be a distant #2" And what on earth are you talking about "in house"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) They ARE competing with WoW... regardless of what they say. And if you want to get technical, none other that EA CEO John Ricitiello stated something along the lines of "we're not going to be content to be a distant #2" And what on earth are you talking about "in house"? They are in the same market but define competing, they might want to be number one but on there own merits, they arnt going to copy paste stuff into the game just like wow did to 'compete'. And so what if the ceo said they want it to be number one, of course they do because they want the acclaim and the money that comes from it. how does that in anyway conform to it must have exactly the things that wow has to be competative. seriously how. And if they have 1.7 mil subs still as has been stated from a western market i would say they are competing just fine. and if you have no idea what in house means in realtion to 3rd party then i have lost all belief that you have any idea what your talking about, in house means that its created by employes of the company aka the development team for the game and not relied on a 3rd party, someone creating addons to implement content for there game that the 3rd party has to keep upto date around the games updates but instead with it being in house and part of the core design of the game gets updated automatically by bioware. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/in-house.asp#axzz1q67bNh9x Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hey nubsauce...it was launched with MUCH MORE, SWG, WoW, CoH, LotR, AoC all were months of headaches at launch, other than a few bugs that were blown out of porportion by the vocal e-tard minority, TOR's lauch is now the benchmark. Only Rift can even compare to launch success. ROLF... really? You seriously think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The point is, if you're going to compete with something you have to at least match it. If that were the case the ToR wouldn't be released for another few years. It needs to be released and then evolve. You WoW kiddies are so spoiled by Blizzard that you probably should still be over their playing their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If that were the case the ToR wouldn't be released for another few years. It needs to be released and then evolve. You WoW kiddies are so spoiled by Blizzard that you probably should still be over their playing their game. Dont forget to add that under there rules of competing that everytime an mmo company came out with game content that improved mmos that they would have to go right back into there core design and update it to be inline with other mmos. Which would mean it would come out. never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 ROLF... really? You seriously think that? It was a hell of a lot smoother and had less bugs than all of those listed besides Rift. ROFL back at ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox_McCloud Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 in before closing. WOW equals medieval fantasy cr**. No thanks. BW should have looked at concepts of GW2, Archeage and The Secret World instead, not a ten year old MMO oldie with Pandas. Agreed completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 For me dragon slaying elves and orcs Have been done and done I'm so over it Fps have been the same since cod Boring Starwars is a Mmo that is similar to others play style But the theme is fresh for me and I will be here for awhile yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My favorite comparison to how stupid the argument of "World of Warcraft didn't have this feature at start" is a cell phone. 10 years ago cell phones didn't have G4 capability, 8 mega pixel cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access, and "the cloud". But do you think a customer is going to listen to you if you tell them the new cell phone they are buying today is on par with a cell phone 10 years ago? Except not all cell phones are G4 capable, have 8 MP cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access and "the cloud". You see, cell phones come in a wide variety of models with a wide variety of features and have anywhere from the most basic of features for the lowest price to the most features for the highest price, and if what the customer wants is something on par with a cell phone from 10 years ago feature-wise, they exist today. Your cell phone comparison is just as stupid as you claim the other comparison is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakito Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 it's funny that the big argument here is that WoW has a Dungeon Finder. That'd be the last thing I would put on the list if I was saying "WoW is better because:" A couple of big things WoW nailed: -atmosphere -open world (the first time I saw Teldrassil my heart stopped for a second, and the first time I looked into the sky while in Mulgore made me say "wow"). -travel system (although it gone bad with all the portals lately) Not Dual spec, and not Dungeon finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Except not all cell phones are G4 capable, have 8 MP cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access and "the cloud". You see, cell phones come in a wide variety of models with a wide variety of features and have anywhere from the most basic of features for the lowest price to the most features for the highest price, and if what the customer wants is something on par with a cell phone from 10 years ago feature-wise, they exist today. Your cell phone comparison is just as stupid as you claim the other comparison is. It's just as accurate. The comparison states that as technology advances the product has to advance. If you release a product and compare it to the release of a product 10 years ago, your product will fail to please the masess. How many cell phone companies tout that their brand new cell phone is just as good as one they had last year, or the year before that, or 7 years before that? None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPopcorn Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Except not all cell phones are G4 capable, have 8 MP cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access and "the cloud". You see, cell phones come in a wide variety of models with a wide variety of features and have anywhere from the most basic of features for the lowest price to the most features for the highest price, and if what the customer wants is something on par with a cell phone from 10 years ago feature-wise, they exist today. Your cell phone comparison is just as stupid as you claim the other comparison is. It depends, would you pay, just for example, $400 for a basic nokia phone (I don't know... a google search turned up nokia 6303) or an iPhone 4? i.e. it's unusual to pay the same amount for a cellphone with less features and a cellphone with tons of features. SWTOR and WoW cost the same in terms of subscriptions, the only difference being that you have to pay for all those WoW expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekloffin Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's just as accurate. The comparison states that as technology advances the product has to advance. If you release a product and compare it to the release of a product 10 years ago, your product will fail to please the masess. How many cell phone companies tout that their brand new cell phone is just as good as one they had last year, or the year before that, or 7 years before that? None. Yet SWTOR does have lots of stuff that WoW didn't have, and a few things it still doesn't have. WoW didn't field with battle ground, heroics, dailies, multi difficulty raids, companions, voice acting, quest choices, class specific quest rewards, a quest helper, quick travel points, and various other things. Problem is, the complainers blissfully remain blind to these things and demand it start with everything WoW has right away. Beyond that, your phone from 10 years ago doesn't get better over time. You have to buy new phones generally to get those new features. Software does actually get better over time, so comparing it to hardware is rather silly in this regard. A phone, or any physical product, has to be assembled with so much material and within so much time. An MMO is not really bound by those restrictions nearly so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I find it interesting that he said that about TOR publicly, but he's spot on. Games need compete with WoW as it is, not as it was. But tell me why this is so? If you want something new, or claim you do, you want something that is different and not the same old clone. This is a Star Wars game that takes place well before the Clone Wars and is not called Clone WoW, but SWTOR, you know, Star Wars: The Old Republic. This game is new, and it is still in the process of learning and growing, and hopefully, not in the way you claim that it must, to compete with the tired old rut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepinoCantador Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 But tell me why this is so? If you want something new, or claim you do, you want something that is different and not the same old clone. This is a Star Wars game that takes place well before the Clone Wars and is not called Clone WoW, but SWTOR, you know, Star Wars: The Old Republic. This game is new, and it is still in the process of learning and growing, and hopefully, not in the way you claim that it must, to compete with the tired old rut. Easy to explain. The MMO market is saturated, with all competitors trying to take pieces of a largely unchanging pie, the biggest piece still belonging to Blizzard. If you expect to poach customers from a competing product, you should have feature parity. Note that I didn't say be a clone, but overlooking well received quality of life features is a colossal mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishko Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 tell me one mmo that got it spot on out the door. go on i dare you. Tell me one MMO that didn't get it spot out the door while competing with wow, and thrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Except not all cell phones are G4 capable, have 8 MP cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access and "the cloud". You see, cell phones come in a wide variety of models with a wide variety of features and have anywhere from the most basic of features for the lowest price to the most features for the highest price, and if what the customer wants is something on par with a cell phone from 10 years ago feature-wise, they exist today. Your cell phone comparison is just as stupid as you claim the other comparison is. Its actually a decent comparison. The old phones with limited features sure as hell don't cost as much as the ones that are loaded with them. What we have here is a Nokia 3315 (ToR) that is charging as much as the iPhone (WoW) Sure, some people love the 3315, but acting like its as good of a product because it has a few redeeming qualities is ridiculous. Edited March 25, 2012 by Frostvein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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