Dhovakhiin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I am playing vengeance atm. My main set is dps (chest,boots etc) and so is the mainhand but the rest is tank gear. I rarely hit over 2.5k but I guess I can't complain because of my gear choice (it's about half champ half bm btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 uhhhhh .... learn something about the spec before you make broad statements like that. Without a charge Smash 3k no rage cost Impale 3k Shatter 3k Plus all the little hits and bleeds you have taken for another 5k Now vicious throw = dead rage juggs I would rather have those than the long setup you have that I can easily get out of by using intercede or charge. You do not have a 7K crit either those have not been seen since the surge nerf. You are getting a nerf while we are getting buffed 'nuff said? In any case, I am not sure why you made this thread other than trolling In reality it looks like this: Impale 1200 hit (lol weapon damage and low crit rate) Smash maybe crit for 2200 scream crit 3000 lol vengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poosticks Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I play a vengeance juggernaut and i like it a lot. It doesn't bother me that i may not serve up crits comparable to other classes it just means that i may have to work a bit harder and utilise more abilities to earn my kills which imo is far more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poosticks Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 In reality it looks like this: Impale 1200 hit (lol weapon damage and low crit rate) Smash maybe crit for 2200 scream crit 3000 lol vengeance Then lol don't play a vengeance juggernaut if you lol don't think much of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I am playing vengeance atm. My main set is dps (chest,boots etc) and so is the mainhand but the rest is tank gear. I rarely hit over 2.5k but I guess I can't complain because of my gear choice (it's about half champ half bm btw). I have the best pvp gear available in game as jugg...Which is Full BM gear custom made * champion belt and champion earpiece for max dmg Custom made * BM mod and enhancements removed for str-power champion mods, and power-surge enchancement from operative champion gear This results with every piece having around 80 str, 68 power and 48 surge. Relics i have power BM trinket with cube relic's steady dmg, to give me max benefit when i pop BM relic. In rage spec i destroy ppl as its expectable...7k smash with 4k+ screams, its basicaly 2 shot on every centurion-tionese geared. But when i spec vengeance, i die inside... Every other class with my gear would destroy everything, but vengeance jugg only just gets viable... Means i do 3500 crits ONLY, and some 4k when more than 2 sorcs/sages spam me lighting slow and i get stacks for pooled hatred...but then after the big hit, (if it crits) i die as expected... Ofc i end up high in dmg in wz as vengeance too( since i got BiS gear in game, but nothing close to 650k i do as rage, or the 1v4 fights i win as rage again :S Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manski Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thats funny, cause when i charge you guys and interrupt you're cute stuff, you stand there like headless chickens screaming "WHAT I DO NAOWWW". Your juggernaut food, don't be delusional. LOL, only commandos who haven't figured out that they have more than a Grav Round key do that. I do know what your talking about because i myself have a guardian and i do the same thing to mercs. Like ummmm tracer got interupted BRAIN OVERLOAD....FREEEzzeeee ...Dieee.. But yeah i have about 20 key binds attached to every possible skill and i never have a free GCD, i have two knock backs and the best weapon against jugg is a set of legs and a jump shot (this strategy doesn't apply to all you keyboard turners out there) TheManski15 on youtube, i got a few 1080p videos up there go watch them, comment away i love feedback whether its good or just flat out trolling go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 In rage spec i destroy ppl as its expectable...7k smash with 4k+ screams, its basicaly 2 shot on every centurion-tionese geared. Ofc i end up high in dmg in wz as vengeance too( since i got BiS gear in game, but nothing close to 650k i do as rage, or the 1v4 fights i win as rage again :S Lol bragging about beating people in centurion is like me bragging about going to a pre-school and kicking them in the face. And i highly doubt you 1v4 anyone that is 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Lol bragging about beating people in centurion is like me bragging about going to a pre-school and kicking them in the face. And i highly doubt you 1v4 anyone that is 50. im not bragging, i state that i 2 shot them. Something that vengeance jugg cant do... And 1v4 is nothing hard vs none tank - none geared classes..... Precharge smash before u face them, CHarge, smash, pop instant force crush to charge the next smash and use all defensive cds...by the 2nd smash, most of them would be arround 20% hp, so u just start finishing them off... I dont make movies to show u how many times i done it...but i have screenshots of my solo kills on wz scoreboard, which are 7-9 on each wz while i top dmg at same time (ganking 1 over and over will give u solo kills but u can top dmg, plus if u kill someone more than 5-6 times, i dont think he ll stay in wz and not leave... Toping dmg with that many solo kills means 1 thing....U face 2-4 ppl at once and suceed in killing them....Tell me if u wanna see screenshots... Sadly i dont have any other way to prove it to you without caughting it on a video Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightertripod Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 what about when your choke gets kicked and your crush gets cleansed, how much damage are you doing then. rage is stupid easy to shot down and you hit like teacup poodles biting ankles, just a minor annoyance. and 7k on what 0 expertise targets. I love seeing BM juggs crit smash me for 3500 tops then i come here and all you forum warriors are like "BLAH BLAH BLAH I DO 7K DAMAGE WITH MY SMASH". I find it odd how theres as many claiming insane damage numbers in seconds as there is claiming that some crits are not possible only one 0 gear players 7K would be the very highest end of the spectrum but 6K on a full battlemaster geared sorc is a given if they have no shield up on a full powered smash/sweep with adr+ relic closer to 7K with the pvp red buff sure some classes you will hit for lot less but 3500 is a very weak hit on anyone with the right setup and gear thats doable without any build up and adr+ relic I still have a few things I could add to make my hits even bigger (not many mind) but i don't think I played a warzone last night I did not have highest hit of 6K i do remeber there being one low geared guy in one WZ he was a 6K with next to no build up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Infernus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Though my question was different and u distracted me... Find me 1 class that crits lower than Vengeance jugg... You have 1 ability that can crit 6k. Vengeance has Impale, Shatter, Smash, Scream, and Vicious Throw, all of which will crit anywhere between 3k and 5k on a single rotation. Do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 You have 1 ability that can crit 6k. Vengeance has Impale, Shatter, Smash, Scream, and Vicious Throw, all of which will crit anywhere between 3k and 5k on a single rotation. Do the math. I did, you didnt... shatter crits lower than force crush Scream crits lower than rage scream (cause of +30% force crit dmg) smash, lol why u ever mentioned it... And show me with proof, that vengeance abilities crit for 5k I have the BiS gear in game and they dont even crit 4k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaIsaber Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Must be doing something wrong. I was full champ gear and couldn't do jack squat for dmg when in Vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yeah yeah vengeance fans.... I wonder what your reaction would be if vengeance spec gets a nerf someday... I bet u all will be " but it was the weakest spec it game!!! why it got nerfed!!! " And bioware would be right since most of you claim that its good spec and does very good dmg and u can outdmg marauders with it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Infernus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 sounds like you're mad your lolololsmash one hit wonder spec is getting trashed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 sounds like you're mad your lolololsmash one hit wonder spec is getting trashed Its not getting trashed, they nerf it and thye give it to marauders.... ofc im mad...as tank my powertech is more powerfull and as dps, vengeance is useless and rage will be more efective on mara with their insane defensive cds... Should i be happy instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Funny how rage is the "lololsmash" spec when vengeance is every bit as easy. Hell as vengeance you dont even have to keep track of stacks just lolol impale 1234. You don't even have to worry about being knocked back. Atleast as rage you need to consider when to smash not just charge in then blindly press 12345 lolimpalelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I did, you didnt... shatter crits lower than force crush Scream crits lower than rage scream (cause of +30% force crit dmg) smash, lol why u ever mentioned it... And show me with proof, that vengeance abilities crit for 5k I have the BiS gear in game and they dont even crit 4k... Vengeance has decent sustained dps, rage is based around getting a big smash off and the other hits you do are like a wet noodle. It's obvious when I see a jugg jump to me, choke me or ravage- I know he's building shockwave, I snare or CC him and take off out of range. Pretty much everyone in rated wz's will be doing this and rage will become useless. I didn't like rage when I speced it, I do pretty good in vengeance and yes you can do good damage, I take it you forgot to switch to shien stance to do good damage? Edited March 20, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Vengeance has decent sustained dps, rage is based around getting a big smash off and the other hits you do are like a wet noodle. It's obvious when I see a jugg jump to me, choke me or ravage- I know he's building shockwave, I snare or CC him and take off out of range. Pretty much everyone in rated wz's will be doing this and rage will become useless. You proved it by yourself that vengeance sucks.... You said Rage attacks hit like wet noodle besides smash Force scream , force push , force choke, all of these do more dmg in rage spec cause of +30% force crit dmg talent Vicious slash, ravage, charge, all of these crit higher in rage spec cause of 20% armor penetration in shii-cho form and viscious slash talent.... And force crush does more dmg overall than shatter... And according to talents u get, all rage attacks hit more than vengeance... So if rage attacks hit like wet noodle...immagine how terrible vengeance attacks are... Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) And a screenshot of a mara (Yes, marauder) criting almost 7k smash after surge nerf. Immagine what they gonna do after 1.2 when they ll get our +smash dmg talent with their allready insane defensive cds.. http://i41.tinypic.com/t5j39c.jpg enjoy..... Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 focusing on crit vs other melee classes doesn't exactly paint the clearest picture. Given that the rage mechanic is more about doing damage to do more damage, rather then taking away from a finite pool, gives their damage more sustainability (as long as their in melee range). vengeance vs rage spec -vengeance has a 1 ability to crit set up (15s cd and 9s cd to crit) vs rages (21s cd or 55s cd) 5 stacks to increase damage +1 ability to make it crit (9s cd). Vengeance may not crit as hard but it crits more often from proc mechanics. rage will crit harder however with 5 stacks on smash (brings it up to 1200 damage) + crit vs vengeances (1k damage scream before crit). -vengeance seems to me at least, to be a bit more of a rage dump then rage spec, as well as compensatory to rage generation down time with reseting the cd on ravage. But seeing as ravage is more utilized in vengeance the non interrupt talent in rage seems out of place. thats not to say there aren't some screwey things with vengeance spec, like the damage increase to your next attack you receive from being slowed (can stack up to 50%) often ends up being used on a rage builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) focusing on crit vs other melee classes doesn't exactly paint the clearest picture. Given that the rage mechanic is more about doing damage to do more damage, rather then taking away from a finite pool, gives their damage more sustainability (as long as their in melee range). vengeance vs rage spec -vengeance has a 1 ability to crit set up (15s cd and 9s cd to crit) vs rages (21s cd or 55s cd) 5 stacks to increase damage +1 ability to make it crit (9s cd). Vengeance may not crit as hard but it crits more often from proc mechanics. rage will crit harder however with 5 stacks on smash (brings it up to 1200 damage) + crit vs vengeances (1k damage scream before crit). -vengeance seems to me at least, to be a bit more of a rage dump then rage spec, as well as compensatory to rage generation down time with reseting the cd on ravage. But seeing as ravage is more utilized in vengeance the non interrupt talent in rage seems out of place. thats not to say there aren't some screwey things with vengeance spec, like the damage increase to your next attack you receive from being slowed (can stack up to 50%) often ends up being used on a rage builder. 1st) Smash can get 4 stacks and not 5 2nd) vengeance force scream is weaker than rage force scream 3rd) Pooled hatred doesnt get consumed by rage building abilities....you are the vengeance jugg yet i know more than u... 4th) You made a post but u didnt made a point...so? Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 In reality it looks like this: Impale 1200 hit (lol weapon damage and low crit rate) Smash maybe crit for 2200 scream crit 3000 lol vengeance This is a lot closer to what vengeance gameplay actually looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) As a rank 70+ vengeance juggernaut (that was rank 70 before the WZ change and went to ilum a grand total of 4 times since the change to valor gains/dailies [aka pure wzs]). This thread is nonsensical to me, in every way. Prepatch (surge change) I could crit for 6.7k pretty much every other game with impales (yes I had pooled hatred stacks, but it happened). I crit for around 5.5k max now, but I'm still pretty damn strong on the whole. Vengeance/Vigilance are VERY strong specs in the right hands. If you're not doing well as vengeance, then re-mod your gear or rethink your rotations while moving into combat. Post patch vengeance will still be as viable as it is now, we'll be speccing out of intimidation (/cry) but have much more reliable rage generation via rampage AND we are the one juggernaut spec that can make effective use of the new defensive CD thanks to shien form Plus ravage is usable while moving, that's kick *** and works with the new spec (4/34/3)] n reality it looks like this: Impale 1200 hit (lol weapon damage and low crit rate) Smash maybe crit for 2200 scream crit 3000 lol vengeance More like... Impale (2.5k noncrit, 4.5k crit) Shatter (1.8k noncrit, 2.8k crit) Scream (3.8k crit (should crit 90% of the time if you're not playing like a moron) DOT TICKS (we have 3 that tick 600 damage over 6 seconds, another that ticks upwards of 300 and another that ticks for 2800 over 12 seconds) And Vicious throw anywhere from 3k-5.5k Plus come patch we can use vicious throw at 30% instead of 20%. Edited March 20, 2012 by Dracosz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowKidd Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Ok here is proofs without screenshots .. coz i dont need to learn someone how to play jugg in pvp ... As vengance u have : More surviability then rage what is very usefull in pvp (intercede 20% dmg reduction on u and on ur target thanks talent Huddle when u have incrested ur endurance by 4%, then talent Deafening Defense reducing ur dmg taken by 4% , And if ure good pvp player u re switching targets and in that case u have by most of the time on ur self 40% dmg reduction and yes u can as vengacne kill anyone dont speaking about tanks in 10 secs if not he is very vel guarded etc and u need to swtich. Dps in vengance is pretty well- Since if u will mixed up very well ur gear and change few mods and enhancements u will do with impale over 5k hits shater over 3k hits and force scream over 4k hits (thats max crits - and remebrer bigger numbers dont mean its better) and u can have stable dps. And as vengance u dont loosing one cc (force choke) u can use it whenever u like it / need it . And all those attacks what u was writed making a dot on ur targets up to 3 dots, they re doing a lot of dmg too. As a rage jugg u dont have surviability what is needed in pvp and u have only one big hit with smash what is easy avoidable (yes if u re playing with bad players u will feel like a king) but try to play with premades like my team and thats totaly differance. And then u have force scream and obliterate. But remeber u dont have still no surviability so u will die if u re playing against good players in 2-3 secs. Coz pvp its about coop with ur teammates. Yes u can do big dmg but after this smash u will not do nothing. And as i say smash is really easy avoidable or u can be easy cced when u re using this ability so u will use it u wil get cc cd used stacks down and 0 dmg. I thing reasons what i posted is much so thing about it. Have a fun guys SnowKid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Ok, i ll say it for 5th, 6th, 7th time?? All rage force abilities crit higher than vengeance cause of the +30% force crit dmg talent : Force scream Force push Force choke Force smash All melee rage abilities that are shared through venegance spec are more powerfull, due to 20% armor penetration in shii-cho Vicious slash Sundering assault Charge So whenever and whoever of u say "i crit 4k , 5k, 10k as vengeance, keep in mind that Always Rage will crit higher, with EVERY spell...not just smash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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