PvP AP in 1.2 - is anyone else super excited?

[Pacifie]

I´ve played AP and Pyro and while I love AP it simply couldnt compete with the multi-PPA procs of Pyro in terms of pvp burst pre 1.2. Now I fully expect the dps to remain lower than pyro post 1.2 - but there is so much more to the class/role.

 

I would like to start by explaining that this role may not shine in PUGs, where it is more difficult to coordinate help and support. However, the changes to AP combined with 8 man premades for ranked WZs is awesome in my opinion. AP will have a role. And that role is to absolutely ruin the day of anyone with cast bar.

 

There are 4 changes i want to highlight that I am excited about.

 

1. Quell costs ZERO heat now. This is a massive buff. Combined with the Hitman for -2 secs on the CD and I cannot wait to respec back into this. This was already one of the most OP BH abilities pre 1.2.

 

2. Hamstring. A snare for RB - a makes chasing or getting away a little easier. 6 seconds is a long time and this with the +15% HEGC or HO is a great addition. I am curious to see if it stacks with the next ability.

 

3. Flamethrower - stacks of Proto Flamethrower make it uninterruptable AND adds a 70% snare? This makes it viable in pvp (although we still cant run with it which I think would be the next step). It also got buffed in that the dmg ticks start earlier. What I would like confirmed are the mechanics. i.e. immune only to interrupts or immune to stuns as well? Does the snare persist for any time after the 3 second channel time? Bueller?

 

4. Immolate adds stacks to Proto Flamethrower. Great addition and does add to our dps. Can anyone confirm if the immolate mechanic has been ninja buffed so that the damage is posted at the beginning of the animation / earlier similar to flamethrower/DFA?

 

Combine all of these changes and you have two stuns, an interrupt on a ridiculous CD, and a secondary interrupt/day ruiner (grapple) and you have a pretty well rounded class for crowd control /survivability. With the right team mates it is going to be a blast to play.

 

Anyone else want to /sign this happy post?

[Assaultrooper]

I might shut my mouth up on the QQ for the Pyrotech changes if all of what you mentioned (ESPECIALLY the flamethrower) goes live unchanged. I always liked AP a bit more than pyrotech, counter intuitively it had alot more "fire" going for it

 

Hope this changes make it live

 

BTW WE ARE NOT OP! ("Ridicoulous CD" = Like the cd/ccs of every other class!!) No more nerfs pls

Edited March 19, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Shredzz]

pyro change for pvp isnt so bad if you think quell now generates not heat, so if you're using it all the time thats -8 heat every 8secs. Its not so much of a bad thing.

 

for pve this makes us really good interupters since it wont affect our dps one bit

[LoKiei]

Yea I am, these changes are almsot exactly what I suggested and with them AP will be very fun.

[exphryl]

I didn't see the proto flamethrower change in the initial patch notes....

 

That sounds pretty good though.

[Shredzz]

ye i got a screenshot of it

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367947

 

made a lvl10 pt on pts

[Domiinick]

Annnnd now I have another reason to level my BH. My group on republic is going to throttle me.

[Theology]

As much as I want to be excited for it, flamethrower is still so un-practical due to the amount of aoe CC/CC in this game. Chances are when you pop that flamethrower in a big fight, you're guaranteed to have someone use a form of cc. If they extended the range on it, maybe it could be done, but without it, no way. Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Assaultrooper]

As much as I want to be excited for it, flamethrower is still so un-practical due to the amount of aoe CC/CC in this game. Chances are when you pop that flamethrower in a big fight, you're guaranteed to have someone use a form of cc. If they extended the range on it, maybe it could be done, but without it, no way.

 

Well atleast u just made them blow ther cc >.>? I know ppl like to do this when an assassin force lightning thems and thats a pretty practical move!

[Theology]

Well atleast u just made them blow ther cc >.>? I know ppl like to do this when an assassin force lightning thems and thats a pretty practical move!

 

Force lightning can also be done at a 30m range, has almost a 100% crit rate, and heals you AND slows the target. (I have a War Hero Darkness Assassin also) lol

 

Though i was referring to a map like Alderaan or Void-star where you can have 5-6 people bunched up at a time, aoe CCs are going to be flying around everywhere. Whether someone directly uses it to counter your flamethrower or whether they use it just to use it in a big fight doesnt really matter.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Mapex]

As much as I want to be excited for it, flamethrower is still so un-practical due to the amount of aoe CC/CC in this game. Chances are when you pop that flamethrower in a big fight, you're guaranteed to have someone use a form of cc. If they extended the range on it, maybe it could be done, but without it, no way.

 

Without a counter to Flame Thrower it would be overpowered. One good strategy is to blow it early so that people use their most powerful CC on you and then grab your 5 stacks ASAP to use it again for the slow.

 

These changes are basically all AP needs (the class-wide change to make interrupts free being a huge boon to healer killing). Anymore changes and AP will be the next FOTM Madness/Balance, I guarantee it.

[Theology]

Without a counter to Flame Thrower it would be overpowered. One good strategy is to blow it early so that people use their most powerful CC on you and then grab your 5 stacks ASAP to use it again for the slow.

 

These changes are basically all AP needs (the class-wide change to make interrupts free being a huge boon to healer killing). Anymore changes and AP will be the next FOTM Madness/Balance, I guarantee it.

 

It would be OP without a counter. What im getting at is that only very situationally is flamethrower a viable option for DPS. In 2/3 of the current warzones, it is not. With the amount of Knights/Warriors running aorund psot 1.2, with leaps and their aoe CC, I highly doubt you'll ever get a utilized flamethrower.

[Tifski]

It would be OP without a counter. What im getting at is that only very situationally is flamethrower a viable option for DPS. In 2/3 of the current warzones, it is not. With the amount of Knights/Warriors running aorund psot 1.2, with leaps and their aoe CC, I highly doubt you'll ever get a utilized flamethrower.

 

This of course, assuming that you're always going to get CC'd and therefore any change to Flamethrower is worthless because of that.

[Theology]

This of course, assuming that you're always going to get CC'd and therefore any change to Flamethrower is worthless because of that.

 

Sure, I mean in voidstar where you have 4-6 people on each time fighting eachother in a small radius, theres constantly going to be aoe cc's thrown around.

 

If HO made you immune to stun, I would be more inclined to say that flamethrower IS practical, but alas, it does not.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Tifski]

Sure, I mean in voidstar where you have 4-6 people on each time fighting eachother in a small radius, theres constantly going to be aoe cc's thrown around.

 

I use flamethrower as area denial on Voidstar when I've exhausted my other cooldowns and it works quite well. Anecdotal evidence works both ways.

[Mapex]

I use flamethrower as area denial on Voidstar when I've exhausted my other cooldowns and it works quite well. Anecdotal evidence works both ways.

 

This. I use Flame Thrower ALL THE TIME and it is the best AOE ability we have (DFA is so showy on the other hand that people jump to interrupt you immediately). The fact that it's going to slow at 5 stacks as well as become uninterruptible at 1+ stack is going to make it even more ridiculous.

 

As it is now almost no one ever interrupts my Flame Thrower. They know it's going to require me to move my aim to lead them so they actually get hit and they know I'm self-rooting myself and becoming a sitting duck. Post-patch, they'll see they won't be able to run circles around me anymore and then they'l see that they can't interrupt it either.

 

Yes, it might encourage them to save their stuns for when I Flame Thrower, but it's almost guaranteed that they will prefer to blow their stuns earlier as they have been doing to ensure I don't get my 5 stacks in the first place. In the end, it's really a wash and is only worth analyzing with actual gameplay, not theorycraft. That said, it's a buff regardless because the ability is being boosted in ways it wasn't able to be boosted before.

[Theology]

This. I use Flame Thrower ALL THE TIME and it is the best AOE ability we have (DFA is so showy on the other hand that people jump to interrupt you immediately). The fact that it's going to slow at 5 stacks as well as become uninterruptible at 1+ stack is going to make it even more ridiculous.

 

As it is now almost no one ever interrupts my Flame Thrower. They know it's going to require me to move my aim to lead them so they actually get hit and they know I'm self-rooting myself and becoming a sitting duck. Post-patch, they'll see they won't be able to run circles around me anymore and then they'l see that they can't interrupt it either.

 

Yes, it might encourage them to save their stuns for when I Flame Thrower, but it's almost guaranteed that they will prefer to blow their stuns earlier as they have been doing to ensure I don't get my 5 stacks in the first place. In the end, it's really a wash and is only worth analyzing with actual gameplay, not theorycraft. That said, it's a buff regardless because the ability is being boosted in ways it wasn't able to be boosted before.

 

Very true, well said.

[sensiblepoast]

Not in the slightest way.

[Taerrik]

A few things about AP still

 

HEGC is still trash, change it, or remove it all together. CGC and IGC are much better options.

 

Ret Blade either needs to be 8 energy, or do more damage

[Mapex]

A few things about AP still

 

HEGC is still trash, change it, or remove it all together. CGC and IGC are much better options.

 

Ret Blade either needs to be 8 energy, or do more damage

 

HEGC is amazing...8% elemental/internal damage boost, movement speed, and the best Heat venting of the three specs.

 

And RB is fine: it's a utility ability more than a damage ability, just like PyroTech's Incendiary Missile. It provides a spammable DoT to enable Rail Shot and potentially proc Charged Gauntlets from the initial strike and in 1.2 will also slow enemies and proc CG from its DoT ticks.

 

AP is going to be perfect after these changes get incorporated into the game (still pushing for easier to gain stacks on Prototype Flame Thrower, however).

Edited March 20, 2012 by Mapex

[Cryonic_Preacher]

not at all, it will be better to move "pneumatic boots" to the cylinder itself and make another talent in exchange to round the tree up.

 

Then it will be perfect

[Noollig]

well said, Mapex. I can't wait to try out these changes.

[dardack]

Can someone link a spec for this for PVP purposes? Guess I missed this post when I posted mine. I'm trying out Ad P now before 1.2 to get used to it, but need some guidance/rotations etc. Edited March 20, 2012 by dardack

[frmorrison]

Can someone link a spec for this for PVP purposes? Guess I missed this post when I posted mine. I'm trying out Ad P now before 1.2 to get used to it, but need some guidance/rotations etc.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/powertech#i2i-917fe8e292-c Note Kolto Vents is useless now, but in 1.2 it will provide a slow, so I point the point there as a placeholder.

 

Regarding stacking of slows, the game takes the larger of the two, so say you had the RB slow, the FT slow would override.

Edited March 21, 2012 by frmorrison

[Agooz]

As much as I would love to play an AP, 1.2 changes are still not good enough. faster quell, while nice, is not something to base a tree on. The survivability skills in the tree never could compensate for the lack of bursts, might as well go shieldtech and survive way longer, while still being able to pick up the bells and whistles of AP. Also FT will not make this tree effective in any way. Its only purpose was to protect a door in voidstar and that is situational most of the time. But again it is not a finisher nor a burst that will win you a battle, let alone a WZ.

 

And before someone jumps on my back, I am not looking for the AP to be another burst dps similar to pyro. Hec, the AP was supposed to be our PvP tree. To me it just seemed that they had a pool of talents and they randomly slapped them on both trees and Pyro just ended up with the better ones. But does each tree have a specific focus? nope.

FT and Immolate along with the their respective talents should have been on the Pyro tree, and that tree would be our PvE spec. PPA or some other decent burst proc should have been in the AP tree and enhancing our railshots. RB should have been a burst damage with maybe a stun (not a dot).

Maybe I am alone in this, but I do not see any real focus on a concept in either trees. People loved the pyro, because it is great for both pvp and pve, but we all know it was a little over the top.

I know this is a long shot, but I would be for a complete revamp of both trees.