MinguesDew Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So BW takes the same route that they did with Biochem. Its easier to nerf what's working instead of buffing what's not. I'm a big fan of this philosophy but in the case of sorcs/biochem that would be completely moronic because they are ONE crew skill and ONE AC. So they could buff nearly everything or apply a few precision nerfs. I find applying logic works better than spazzing out and assuming the devs are trying to ruin their own game/career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So BW takes the same route that they did with Biochem. Its easier to nerf what's working instead of buffing what's not. You can't just keep buffing everything or the stats become so out of proportion that it truly becomes a balancing nightmare. A legitimate nerf here and there isn't going to make or break a class/AC. I think gamers have just been burned too many times in the past, so they get defensive about any of the slightest nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinguesDew Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I think gamers...get defensive. Agreed, but also. Fixed. So much so that buffs to other ACs are nerfs to them. So much so they declare they are quitting before patch notes even go live. So much so they threaten and verbally abuse devs. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh I'll be fine DPSing from now on. I just hate having to alter my play style due to the endless tears coming from the PvP community. The healing nerfs came from PvE, not PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LopmaRibar Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 You can't just keep buffing everything or the stats become so out of proportion that it truly becomes a balancing nightmare. A legitimate nerf here and there isn't going to make or break a class/AC. I think gamers have just been burned too many times in the past, so they get defensive about any of the slightest nerfs. Balancing around PvP. This is my point. LoTRO addressed this issue by having a completely different class of toons for PvMP. Not spazzing out here. Not rage quitting. I accepted the nerf to Biochem, and now I'm accepting the nerf to Seer healing. I'll just switch to DPS and everyone can deal with even less healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Balancing around PvP. This is my point. LoTRO addressed this issue by having a completely different class of toons for PvMP. Not spazzing out here. Not rage quitting. I accepted the nerf to Biochem, and now I'm accepting the nerf to Seer healing. I'll just switch to DPS and everyone can deal with even less healers. Dunno if I said this in this thread or another. But class balancing is NOT based around pvp/warzone stats. Lemme find the link. . . http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3401275#edit3401275 Damage statistics in Warzones would be a rather crude tool to build class balance on. While I'm at it, here's a thread where someone actually tested Sage healing on the PTS(with a lvl 50), and says the changes aren't too bad. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363991 edit - ya Georg specifically says 'damage', but it's safe to assume if they aren't using dps stats from warzones, they aren't gonna use healing stats either. Edited March 19, 2012 by FourTwent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I heard Sawbones healers are getting a buff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpharoah Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh I'll be fine DPSing from now on. I just hate having to alter my play style due to the endless tears coming from the PvP community. Have you heard of solitaire . Its a free game, comes included with windows. I think you will find it more to your play style liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LopmaRibar Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I heard Sawbones healers are getting a buff... Yeah, got one of those that I'm leveling now, but man I really liked playing a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 And again, I'll waste my time saying this. THIS GAME HAS NO PVP! Their is only instanced pvp, which in my mind (and any real pvper) Is not pvp. It's gear grinding, instanced bull****. They did have Ilum, it's still there, without any purpose but open world pvp.... and look at how the 'real' pvpers flock to it. So, you don't consider Starcraft, MOBAs, GW, any FPS game to be a pvp game, since they're all instanced? What exactly is pvp to you then? Oh, right, world pvp- ganking level 10s as a 50, zerging two people with a full operation. REAL MEN PVP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortof Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) They did have Ilum, it's still there, without any purpose but open world pvp.... and look at how the 'real' pvpers flock to it. So, you don't consider Starcraft, MOBAs, GW, any FPS game to be a pvp game, since they're all instanced? What exactly is pvp to you then? Oh, right, world pvp- ganking level 10s as a 50, zerging two people with a full operation. REAL MEN PVP!!! I had a "real" PVPer offer to invite me to an Ops group in Ilum once. This "real" PVPers OPs group was trading kills with the Pubs. I had to tell him no. I felt so bad that, that may have been my one chance at being a "real" PVPer. Edited March 19, 2012 by Ortof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So now you have to manage your resources and can't double proc your healing spells off of a buff that was only meant to affect one of them? Heaven forbid. I play a Sorc healer, and even I can tell we are overpowered as healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeb Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 /facepalm Because the nerfs that you PvPers cried for will affect my PvE experience! There's no competition in PvE, so why the whining from you? What are you gonna get out played by another who-the-hell-cares force user in a raid? Or will it actually be that your character won't be playable? Because I hardly doubt that's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh I'll be fine DPSing from now on. I just hate having to alter my play style due to the endless tears coming from the PvP community. What makes you assume it came from the PvP community? How do you know the changes weren't for PvE balance issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So it's not healing... its healing from OP classes. I can safely not care now, thank you! "Force Surge no longer removes the health cost from Consumption." Enjoy your OOF raid attempts...all because some crybabies got upset about PvP utility. But hey, now, not only can a full corruption sorc barely kill anyone in a WZ, he'll probably get to heal nobody but himself as well...all while enjoying going OOF all the time, which will constitute a huge hit to his own survivability and his team's (be it in FPs, OPs or in WZs). Boy, I can't wait for the focus-fuire OOF-loops to begin in WZs: spawn, run out there, get focus-fired, go OOF healing yourself through it and/or die. Oh goody...and that's if they're nice enough to let you die. I mean, why not just decide that the best strat from now on is forcing sorcs to OOF and then backing off them so they don't get to respawn for a full force bar? Seems pretty simple. Focus fire to almost no health and OOF and then leave them alone while they limp around useless or have to go suicide to get back their force bar. At least before, we could work our way back into some force via innervate, but now it's over...the only reason to take that talent in the first place. OOF festival here we come. We now have no useful non-harmful way to regenerate force. Apparently, BW couldn't even just see their way to reducing the % of your health that consumption consumes or having the talent switch from making it free to some form of reducing percentage consumed so it still had some utility. Nope...gotta remove it completely so that corruption sorcs will never keep up with the rest of the healers again. But I'm gonna go ahead and guess that you play another healing class or a hybrid that was mad about being beaten in healing all the time...despite the fact that sorcs are the squishiest in light armor and can't run around dual-pistol healing everyone while in heavy armor on the move...have to stand in one spot like a sitting duck wearing a dress. This nerf has the potential to render sorc healing absolutely useless in PvP AND PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 And again, I'll waste my time saying this. THIS GAME HAS NO PVP! Their is only instanced pvp, which in my mind (and any real pvper) Is not pvp. It's gear grinding, instanced bull****. Le sigh... Please go look up the definition of PvP. Please try and define "Real" pvper. I'll give you a hint, it's a made up word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 And again, I'll waste my time saying this. THIS GAME HAS NO PVP! Their is only instanced pvp, which in my mind (and any real pvper) Is not pvp. It's gear grinding, instanced bull****. Because OWPvP and fighting and stomping someone with 5x the numbers is totally real PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) So now you have to manage your resources and can't double proc your healing spells off of a buff that was only meant to affect one of them? Heaven forbid. I play a Sorc healer, and even I can tell we are overpowered as healers. I have no problem with the fix to the ability to squeeze two procs out of resurgence. Anyone being reasonable would have to admit that was a little wrong, and it's not a huge nerf....but if you're consistently the object of focus fire in PvP from peopel trying to burn down all healers, the consumption cost nerf is pretty significant. Surviving a focus fire by healing yourself until people pull them off you, followed by being able to regain force without too much health damage is important. Every other class has a way to regain their resource and none of them have anywhere near the detrimental cost that consumption does. I mean, 15% of your total health to get back 8% of your force...a whopping 48 force with which to cast what, one heal and a bubble? It's absurd that we now have no way at all to even reduce that ratio. Wanna complain that it was OP? How? In what way? It was useable only when you cast an innervate and it crit? It synergized nicely with resurgence...but if you use that rotation, you have to spend all that force to get it back anyway, so what made it OP? Nothing. That's what. That you could keep yourself very slightly ahead of the curve and not go OOF quite as quickly? That if you got focus fired you weren't rendered completely and utterly useless until you died to refill your force bar? Know what's coming? Sorcs/sages are going the way of the WoW shaman because they were the first and most viciously complained about for being "OP." If you play one, bend over for the nerf bat...because they're not going to be done yet, and the class will be only moderately useful from here on out in order to satstify other healing classes that are mad or PvP crybabies. Seriously, why take a sorcerer into anything if they have no advantage over any of the other healers in terms of healing output and resource management? Light armor and less survivability? Sign me up. Stationary casting for all heals instead of running around blasting heals at people? Clearly that's a huge advantage for Sorcs who get tired from running. A quick heal that has crappy cost to heal ratio? Truly a wonder. A nuke heal that takes long enough while stationary that is almost always interrupted unless force bending is up to shorten the cast time? Perfect. Bubbles that absorb one measley single hit from an enemy, even if you took the talents, once every 12 seconds or so if yuo have the gear? Epic. A moderate HoT easily outstripped by PvP dmg output? World class. Innervate? Ok, this is still nice, but it's hardly enough. An AoE heal that nobody has the brains to try to stay in during a WZ and that nobody can manage to stay in for OPs beause of knockbacks etc? Awesomesauce. Newslfash: if BW plans to reduce the difference between takig a sorc and some other healer to a PvP group or PvE/OP attempt...reduce it to taking them just for some Innervate or their buff, something is broken. Completely broken. And it will break further when it comes dowwn to things like sorcs having to wear light armor versus peopel who get to heal equal to them in heavy armor. But that's where it's headed if they're going to mess with sorcs' ability to manage resources at the same time they buff other healers. Edited March 19, 2012 by Blotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LopmaRibar Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 What makes you assume it came from the PvP community? How do you know the changes weren't for PvE balance issues? Just from the sheer volume of calls for nerfs that I see on the PvP forums. You never see any posts in the PvE forums saying, "Hey, this healer has it way to easy keeping this group alive. NERF!" No, it's always, "I can't rack up kills as fast I want to with healers around. NERF!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just from the sheer volume of calls for nerfs that I see on the PvP forums. You never see any posts in the PvE forums saying, "Hey, this healer has it way to easy keeping this group alive. NERF!" No, it's always, "I can't rack up kills as fast I want to with healers around. NERF!" So you based your conclusion on your own assumptions, nothing factual. Nothing from BW saying that they made the changes solely based on PvP complaints from these forums? IF what you are saying had any basis at all, then the whole sage/sorc class would probably have been removed from the game as it's the most complained about class on this forum. BW does it's own research, it doesn't rely on these forums for "balance". As such during their own testing it's perfectly viable that they have found during raiding sage/sorc healers were performing too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwacko Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 no, because I can't steal your credits, I can't burn your city to the ground, and I can't hunt my own faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelamare Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 no, because I can't steal your credits, I can't burn your city to the ground, and I can't hunt my own faction. there we go it's not true pvp till i can hunt down my own faction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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