Redmarx Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think Spiral_Stars from http://www.darthhater.com said it best when he said the nerfs were: "mean-spirited" That is really the perfect term for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synxos Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Operatives deserved a nerf. They can still 100-0 someone quite easily right now. Yes, maras need a nerf too, but don't act like operatives didn't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Operatives deserved a nerf. They can still 100-0 someone quite easily right now. Yes, maras need a nerf too, but don't act like operatives didn't need it. Assassins and sorcs need a bigger nerf. Right? Edited March 29, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Assassins and sorcs need a bigger nerf. Right? assassins do ops didnt really need another nerf (without compensating them in other areas a little bit) Edited March 29, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Operatives deserved a nerf. They can still 100-0 someone quite easily right now. Sorry. Not happening with the possible exception of using the double shoot first bug which is, just that, a bug. A bug that should have been fixed in beta. That's not the fault of scoundrel players. That is the fault of Bioware. Otherwise, you're not taking someone down from 100 to 0 in 5.5 seconds unless they are an unbubbled sage in greens who has already burned all of his or her escape abilities. Even then, you've blown your only real escape cooldown, used your relic, used your stims and, as such, will not be able to repeat this for another three minutes. Now compare that to someone spamming tracer missile ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Sorry. Not happening with the possible exception of using the double shoot first bug which is, just that, a bug. A bug that should have been fixed in beta. That's not the fault of scoundrel players. That is the fault of Bioware. Otherwise, you're not taking someone down from 100 to 0 in 5.5 seconds unless they are an unbubbled sage in greens who has already burned all of his or her escape abilities. Even then, you've blown your only real escape cooldown, used your relic, used your stims and, as such, will not be able to repeat this for another three minutes. Now compare that to someone spamming tracer missile ... The thing that all you operative/smugglers are not understanding is that with your from the shadows burst it drops people to 40% hp which might as well be 100-0... But its ok i know little kids mainly play the from the shadows big burst crutch class IE Vanilla Rogues in WoW and think they totally outplay there opponent Edited March 29, 2012 by warkat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Operatives deserved a nerf. They can still 100-0 someone quite easily right now. Someone? Which someone? Funny that we've heard this bs claim over and over and over and not one shred of proof on youtube. The reason we won't see it is because it will only prove how terribad some players really or show the clear gear disparity of a new 50 with greens vs. a full BM. Yes, maras need a nerf too, but don't act like operatives didn't need it. Operatives didn't need it. Terribad QQers whined enough to make BW believe they did just like your post. Edited March 29, 2012 by Ozzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The thing what all you operative/smugglers are not understanding is that with your from the shadows burst it drops people to 40% hp which might as well be 100-0... But its ok i know little kids mainly play the from the shadows big burst crutch class IE Vanilla Rogues in WoW and think they totally outplay there opponent Now you are retorting with ad hominid attacks. You seem to imply that it does not take a lot of skill to "attack from the shadows." Yet you aren't taking into account that if you are bumped out of stealth from an AoE attack, that's it. Your DPS and main advantage is gone. You either burn your only real escape mechanism, which is on a three / two minute timer, or you put up sub par damage. The same is true for a DOT. If you are Dotted, you're not stealthing unless you burn your evasion. No other class has this feature. Assassins don't rely upon stealth for damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The thing what all you operative/smugglers are not understanding is that with your from the shadows burst it drops fresh 50s in greens to 40% hp which might as well be 100-0... But its ok i know little kids mainly play the from the shadows big burst crutch class IE Vanilla Rogues in WoW and think they totally outplay there opponent Fixed. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telree Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's not balance, but in my extensive MMO experience, it's the squeeky wheel that gets the oil. In other words, if enough people whine, whether it is needed or not, the nerf hammer will fall. I have yet to see balance in any MMO worth playing. There is always a OP class and the only answer the dev's ever have is nerf nerf nerf. Its just a reality of MMO, and one Ive yet to see change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Fixed. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about btw. You are correct. It's 50% on a full BM geared opponent. Taking 2 hits of 4k before even being able to react is half hp for most people is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's not balance, but in my extensive MMO experience, it's the squeeky wheel that gets the oil. In other words, if enough people whine, whether it is needed or not, the nerf hammer will fall. I have yet to see balance in any MMO worth playing. There is always a OP class and the only answer the dev's ever have is nerf nerf nerf. Its just a reality of MMO, and one Ive yet to see change. Exactly. Operatives/Scoundrels are just in the unfortunate position of being the least popular class and at the same time being the counter to the most popular class (Sorcerer/Sage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) You are correct. It's 50% on a full BM geared opponent. Taking 2 hits of 4k before even being able to react is half hp for most people is it not? If you assume that the Operative pops stim+relic and crits on both hits then your statement would be correct. But you may ask yourself the question, what a Sniper, Powertech, Mercenary or DPS Assassin would do to you with stim+relic+crit. Edited March 29, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You are correct. It's 50% on a full BM geared opponent. Taking 2 hits of 4k before even being able to react is half hp for most people is it not? While this may look OP on paper, you soon realize it isn't in practice, since the class you just bursted turns around and kites/roflstomps you due to superior damage, mobility, and surviveability. After that you are out of stealth and doing sub-par damage until you die, wait for like 15+ seconds, or blow your only useful cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwren Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 So every single Ambush+Backstab combo does 8+k to you? And then another 8+k during the 4s stun? This happens to you ALL THE TIME? I dont know how people like you can post this kind of stuff and keep a straight face They're posting things like this because they're getting rolled in the 1 - 49 bracket by a 49 operative and don't understand how the game works. Either that or they are an under geared baddie. I shelved my operative after reading the patch notes because I never took the class to be a healer. After discovering that lethality has 0 viability in end game pvp that left me with 1 spec left to play. Now that it's dead, I'm rerolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) While this may look OP on paper, you soon realize it isn't in practice, since the class you just bursted turns around and kites/roflstomps you due to superior damage, mobility, and surviveability. After that you are out of stealth and doing sub-par damage until you die, wait for like 15+ seconds, or blow your only useful cooldown. lol... That was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. They don't only have one one opener then they are useless. They can stealth again. and stun again. Edited March 30, 2012 by ZDProletariat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHotter Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If you assume that the Operative pops stim+relic and crits on both hits then your statement would be correct. But you may ask yourself the question, what a Sniper, Powertech, Mercenary or DPS Assassin would do to you with stim+relic+crit. It's easy to tell when it was an operative that killed you. They are standing right there and people did not see the 3 ranged guys that helped. When a sniper or merc bursts you down you may not even know what's hitting you or what way to run to LoS. As a former Operative DPS (and now a healer) I don't die very often to a DPS operative. They may take me out of the fight for a bit while I get away from them, but they don't live long as soon as I lead them past someone who kills them pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) According to PTS, operatives are doing 30-40% less dps than other dps classes. Seems a bit high, guessing an error in the parse. Geolager posted: "Good job Bioware, Operative tested to be 30-40% behind everyone else in dps | Today , 6:14 PM You guys sure know how to balance." Bioware has closed the thread. Today , 06:34 PM Report Post Greetings everyone, We know that many players are eager to talk about the changes in Operatives in the upcoming 1.2 Patch. You may want to join that conversation, which is already in progress, here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363724 We will be closing this thread now. Thank you for your feedback! Edited March 30, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 According to PTS, operatives are doing 30-40% less dps than other dps classes. Seems a bit high, guessing an error in the parse. Geolager posted: "Good job Bioware, Operative tested to be 30-40% behind everyone else in dps | Today , 6:14 PM You guys sure know how to balance." Bioware has closed the thread. Today , 06:34 PM Report Post Greetings everyone, We know that many players are eager to talk about the changes in Operatives in the upcoming 1.2 Patch. You may want to join that conversation, which is already in progress, here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363724 We will be closing this thread now. Thank you for your feedback! There is no proof supporting the assertion that they are doing 30% - 40% less DPS. One player, with a highly biased perspective, does not make it "the PTS is reporting" by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 There is no proof supporting the assertion that they are doing 30% - 40% less DPS. One player, with a highly biased perspective, does not make it "the PTS is reporting" by any stretch. Take it from the Prof, he knows a few things about extremely biased perspectives, and he certainly doesn't have any bias when it comes to wanting jedi knights to be the best and every other class to suck. Other than of course proving for years he wants jedi knights to be the best and every other class to suck. That said- who cares about overall damage- damage in pvp, flexibility, ability to control a fight and burst are what truly matters- of which sentinels of course are still the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If you assume that the Operative pops stim+relic and crits on both hits then your statement would be correct. But you may ask yourself the question, what a Sniper, Powertech, Mercenary or DPS Assassin would do to you with stim+relic+crit. About the same, while you'll still be able to react? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeeguy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As a Scoundrel, the only nerf I agree with is the cool down to shoot first, hidden strike for ops. That makes and I am pretty sure that BW never intended it to be used that way. An oversight. I do have major issues with the extra 3 seconds added to the cool down of back blast/backstab. That bugs me the most. Still testing on the PTS, but I dont have a good feeling at all right now for 1.2 and ops/scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 About the same, while you'll still be able to react? Only if you assume that the Operative uses his stun and the other classes don't. Which isn't likely, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EugeneYap Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Operatives deserved a nerf. They can still 100-0 someone quite easily right now. Yes, maras need a nerf too, but don't act like operatives didn't need it. ROFL if you think mara needs nerfs then you will a bigger problem facing assassin or shadow. Edited April 4, 2012 by EugeneYap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickinhead Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I don't see why Ops needed a nerf. Okay, it was a class that could gett annoying really fast, but it just made teamplay necessary and if your team works together, you actually had a lot of options to made DMG-dealing as an Ops a living hell: - Slow actually is worst for the Ops of all DMG-dealers, cuz he has no real gap-closers and has a hard time getting rid of slows. - Thats also why the rescue-pull of the Sage is awesome against the Ops. - Bubble-stun and AoE-stuns/knockbacks are also awesome against the Ops. I can kinda see why they buffed the Mara though, just because as it is know, the DMG-output between the Mara and the Jugg was too similar, with the Jugg having some baller Utilities as well. But the amount of the buff is really big and it may make some ridiculous hybrid-specs with precision-slash playable (the build lacks 3 skillpoints to be enormously monstrous, we'll have to see if it's still playable without full points in valor and 100%crit on Sweep.) At least, the Ops is the only Healer that got buffed really hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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