DariuszPol Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hi, there is big thread about Operatives that need gap closer. Well after reading patch notes it seems that bioware think that Operatives are OP so they decide to buff heavy armor med. They buff mara / sentinel etc. And Operatives will be NERFED AGAIN. Backstab - 5% more damage but... 30% more cooldown so from 9 we have to wait 12s. Hidden strike - forget about using it more often - 7,5s cooldown. We have it only from stealth and only from behind and now there is cooldown that would prevent to sacrifice our only escape vanish for another big hit. Gigle / Grunt - no more annoying sounds when we gain tactical advantage :/ Lanceration - nerfed by 10% At least they adjust energy cost that COULD make us fight little longer on full blast. Operatives perform quite nice in 10-49 backet but on lvl 50 they literaly SUX against equaly geared targets. They can't put down healer. They have hard time with tanks. And high HP pool on lvl 50 make their life even harder. Hit & Run is no longer hit and run. Anyway - I'm glad that with changing server I started making Jugg. Because my Operative will be probably a trash after 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 As a Scoundrel, these changes are ultimately really minor and I'm kind of surprised people even care very much. I guess more people rely on scrubby SF -> DA -> SF chains to kill people than I thought. Punch being energy positive now is a bigger deal than 3s CD on BB that hits 5% harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) They lost it. Honestly its time to leave the game because they obviously dont know what they are doing. Smuggler/IA class has died after long and serious ilness. R.I.P. As a Scoundrel, these changes are ultimately really minor and I'm kind of surprised people even care very much. I guess more people rely on scrubby SF -> DA -> SF chains to kill people than I thought. Punch being energy positive now is a bigger deal than 3s CD on BB that hits 5% harder. Sorry but burst if further nerfed AND sustained is also further nerfed. Opposite of what needed to happen. Edited March 17, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Any time you're tempted to think these developers know anything about balancing classes, search through your memory for two words: BRIGHT WIZARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Any time you're tempted to think these developers know anything about balancing classes, search through your memory for two words: BRIGHT WIZARDS +1 Bioware just doesnt want to make noobs ragequit xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Hidden strike - forget about using it more often - 7,5s cooldown. We have it only from stealth and only from behind and now there is cooldown that would prevent to sacrifice our only escape vanish for another big hit. Is this the thing where you pop out of stealth, blast them, restealth, then come back out and blast all in 2GCDs doing 8k+ damage in 3 seconds while still having the stuns? Yeah that needed to be fixed. Don't whine about that. Edited March 17, 2012 by ZDProletariat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Is this the thing where you pop out of stealth, blast them, restealth, then come back out and blast all in 2GCDs doing 8k+ damage in 3 seconds while still having the stuns? Yeah that needed to be fixed. Don't whine about that. Yeah, basically. The funny part is that aside from that, our burst only improved by 5% on BB follow-up to SF, plus whatever comes from punch changes (need to see strength of new skill to know for certain). But whatever, forum knee-jerkers are out in force tonight, I'll wait a couple days until the melodrama shakes out before expecting any reasonable discussion about this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 I really have NO IDEA what they are thinking. They should check Operative at lvl 50 before making any moves. Operatives work nice at 10-49 BECAUSE low lvl people don't have all that gear, defense and skills to counter them. But at lvl 50 they have EVERYTHING to counter them and Operatives have nothing. Burst damage is a joke, even Jugg can perform much better Sustained damage is a joke No gap closer so you fly around battlefield being pushed / pulled / rooted/ snared etc and you can't do anything about it Vanish is on long cooldown so we only use it in very tight sutiation and it work ONLY if there is no DOT on us. And we are usualy DOTed. And we can't clear force DoT while majority of players are force users so that don't work. Do I miss something ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxkardinal Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Is this the thing where you pop out of stealth, blast them, restealth, then come back out and blast all in 2GCDs doing 8k+ damage in 3 seconds while still having the stuns? Yeah that needed to be fixed. Don't whine about that. So you say 'all in' option to fill full resolve and down 50% (8+k is 50% from 16-17 k HP pool) of good geared person was TOO dangerous, and SO overpowered, so it was needed to turn burst stealth class into hand to hand fighter? Dear Satan, thank you that you've guided me to loose faith in "best in buisness PvP team" and cancel sub even before 1.2 changes came out. Thank you! Edited March 17, 2012 by Maxkardinal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I really have NO IDEA what they are thinking. They should check Operative at lvl 50 before making any moves. Operatives work nice at 10-49 BECAUSE low lvl people don't have all that gear, defense and skills to counter them. But at lvl 50 they have EVERYTHING to counter them and Operatives have nothing. Burst damage is a joke, even Jugg can perform much better Sustained damage is a joke No gap closer so you fly around battlefield being pushed / pulled / rooted/ snared etc and you can't do anything about it Vanish is on long cooldown so we only use it in very tight sutiation and it work ONLY if there is no DOT on us. And we are usualy DOTed. And we can't clear force DoT while majority of players are force users so that don't work. Do I miss something ?? You have stealth, THAT is your gap closer!!!! Every class gets pushed/pulled/rooted/snared etc.... Not just operatives. Why is it operatives think they should be able to kill anything easily? Healers should be hard to kill, tanks should be hard to kill. Wait till you have seen the changes, starting to fix the energy issues are a good start, am sure they are not finished with the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) You have stealth, THAT is your gap closer!!!! Then why do shadows needs pull and force speed in addition to stealth? Edited March 17, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namelless Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Then why do assassins needs pull and force speed in addition to stealth? Don't forget their ranged stun! Edit: Just checked, only the stun is ranged, not the slow. Edited March 17, 2012 by namelless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDjiin Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I was going to make my own thread when I saw this one. Firstly I do think that oips need tweaking in order to alter the way in which they are played. But if BW nerf the HS / BS they must give you something in return (I haven't read the thread yet so I am not sure on specifics). I play an OP (healer), a Powertech (pyro) and a sorc (madness) and I have just realized that I almost never use the OP for pvp and I have almost never use the PT in pvp any more either. The fact is the force user classes (I have a mid level jugg also) are so much more fun to play. On top of that I keep hearing that the non force user classes are getting nerfed - which is a joke when 8 out of the top 10 on every wz scoreboard are sith / jedi. If you want to see wz that are 98% force users then carry on with the direction you seem to have chosen. But I very much doubt it will do SWTOR much good in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 You have stealth, THAT is your gap closer!!!! Every class gets pushed/pulled/rooted/snared etc.... Not just operatives. Why is it operatives think they should be able to kill anything easily? Healers should be hard to kill, tanks should be hard to kill. Wait till you have seen the changes, starting to fix the energy issues are a good start, am sure they are not finished with the changes. Nope. As Sorcerer I can use forcesprint and get close to you quite fast. Same as assasin and HE HAVE FORCE SPRINT. And Sorc is 30m class. Warrior can jump on you quite often. Jugg too. Mercenary have 30m range so no need. Powertech have pull ability and jet charge. Sniper have push back and cover that make other gap closer useless. That leave Operative with no gap closer. Stealth is no gap closer. Stealth is used to get close to the target BUT IN FIGHT once pushed back and rooted (for example by Sorc) he can't do a thing. And some classes have insane push distance. And Sorc as example again can push you back, root you, then snare you using OFFENSIVE ABILITY, then stun you, run away and start everything over again. Are you serious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Scattered_ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Then why do shadows needs pull and force speed in addition to stealth? They don't have front loaded burst. Not to mention their burst spec is squishier than ops. Also KC shadows and operatives is apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 LOL, Operatives are still one of the most powerful classes I see in PvP. On my server, there are a group of 4 of them all Battlemaster, who will insta-drop ANY target what so ever then just stealth away. Rinse and repeat. Watching them is so boring, stab stab stab. I wish they would add a few more effects/abilities and tone the others down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) They don't have front loaded burst. Neither do Ops. Not to mention their burst spec is squishier than ops. Not really. Shadows have more defensive CDs. Also KC shadows and operatives is apples and oranges. You're the one who said stealth is a sufficient gap closer so no more are needed. Are you now retracting that claim? LOL, Operatives are still one of the most powerful classes I see in PvP. On my server, there are a group of 4 of them all Battlemaster, who will insta-drop ANY target what so ever then just stealth away. Rinse and repeat. Watching them is so boring, stab stab stab. I wish they would add a few more effects/abilities and tone the others down. 4 people killing 1 target quickly is overpowered? Edited March 17, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxkardinal Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 LOL, Operatives are still one of the most powerful classes I see in PvP. On my server, there are a group of 4 of them all Battlemaster, who will insta-drop ANY target what so ever then just stealth away. Rinse and repeat. Watching them is so boring, stab stab stab. I wish they would add a few more effects/abilities and tone the others down. 4 Sorc, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 Merc, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 Assassins, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 Snipers, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 Maras, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 Juggs, all BM can insta drop ANY target 4 PT, all BM can insta drop ANY target Are you really that dumb to think its only operative privelege to insta kill people in numbers of 4, and that the reason to nerf? Really, dude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So are you dumb enough, to think that I can't see 4 mercs or 4 sorcs coming at me? Stealth is a much larger advantage than you seem to give it credit. They are also able to drop most any target 1v1, if you go to the Shadow Runner and look up Lafi etc, I don't think I've ever seen him take more than 10 seconds to kill anyone. My point is, you don't have any time to react or plan ahead when there are 4 stealth characters sneaking up on you then just stabstabstabdead. It's easy enough to avoid 4 of any other class as you can see them coming, only one you can't are Shadows/Assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So are you dumb enough, to think that I can't see 4 mercs or 4 sorcs coming at me? Stealth is a much larger advantage than you seem to give it credit. They are also able to drop most any target 1v1, if you go to the Shadow Runner and look up Lafi etc, I don't think I've ever seen him take more than 10 seconds to kill anyone. My point is, you don't have any time to react or plan ahead when there are 4 stealth characters sneaking up on you then just stabstabstabdead. It's easy enough to avoid 4 of any other class as you can see them coming, only one you can't are Shadows/Assassins. How cluelees CAN you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How naive can you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch-master Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 You have stealth, THAT is your gap closer!!!! Every class gets pushed/pulled/rooted/snared etc.... Not just operatives. Why is it operatives think they should be able to kill anything easily? Healers should be hard to kill, tanks should be hard to kill. Wait till you have seen the changes, starting to fix the energy issues are a good start, am sure they are not finished with the changes. Says the shadow with unstoppable force sprint. On the upside healers will be EASY as hell to kill. they will run out of force/heat in no time.... Way to completely fail out of the gate bioware. Id love to see the excuse for no warzones with more than 16 people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How naive can you be? Not naive enough to believe you are very good at PvP and know what you talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I never claimed to be the best at anything. Just what I see from experience. If I see 4 Marauders, I can harpoon, taunt, smoke grenade an unlimited number of things. I do the same to Operatives / Shadows but you can't see them coming. Stealthing is a bad thing in every game. I can deal with classes I can see, I can't with those I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxkardinal Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So are you dumb enough, to think that I can't see 4 mercs or 4 sorcs coming at me? Stealth is a much larger advantage than you seem to give it credit. They are also able to drop most any target 1v1, if you go to the Shadow Runner and look up Lafi etc, I don't think I've ever seen him take more than 10 seconds to kill anyone. My point is, you don't have any time to react or plan ahead when there are 4 stealth characters sneaking up on you then just stabstabstabdead. It's easy enough to avoid 4 of any other class as you can see them coming, only one you can't are Shadows/Assassins. Please describe how will you avoid 4 people coming to you, if all ranged have ranged stunns and all melee have charge with immobilize. And you only can break 1 stunn. Im just curious. Please, describe. Step by step. How to avoid 4 coordinated people who want to kill specificly you. And dont forget about objectives, like doors, ball and turrets. (That means 'pillar hide' isnt an option) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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