After seeing 1.2 patch notes...

[ryathal]

Let me give you all a little History lesson.

 

World of Warcraft Launched November 23, 2004

Which makes World of Warcraft exactly 7 years, 3 months, 23 days old to this date.

 

7 years, 3 months, 23 days can be converted to one of these units:

2672 days

230,860,800 seconds

3,847,680 minutes

64,128 hours

381 weeks (rounded down)

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic Launched December 20, 2011

Which makes SWTOR 2 months, 27 days old to this date.

 

2 months, 27 days can be converted to one of these units:

89 days

7,689,600 seconds

128,160 minutes

2136 hours

12 weeks (rounded down)

 

 

WoW is exactly 2583 days older then SWTOR. I'm not even going to convert that into any other unit as you can do the math with the numbers above if you so wish to do so.

 

Lets not compare SWTOR to what WoW is right now, rather compare the two on their opening day. I played WoW for almost 6 of the 7 years it has been out. I loved the game but wanted to move to something new. I'm a big time Star Wars fan so this game fills my MMO itch. Sure SWTOR has its flaws but i can say without a doubt SWTOR has more content then WoW did on launch and that is an understatement....

 

 

you don't get to compete with the past, you have to compete with the present

[Gankdalf_]

Let me give you all a little History lesson.

 

World of Warcraft Launched November 23, 2004

Which makes World of Warcraft exactly 7 years, 3 months, 23 days old to this date.

 

7 years, 3 months, 23 days can be converted to one of these units:

2672 days

230,860,800 seconds

3,847,680 minutes

64,128 hours

381 weeks (rounded down)

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic Launched December 20, 2011

Which makes SWTOR 2 months, 27 days old to this date.

 

2 months, 27 days can be converted to one of these units:

89 days

7,689,600 seconds

128,160 minutes

2136 hours

12 weeks (rounded down)

 

 

WoW is exactly 2583 days older then SWTOR. I'm not even going to convert that into any other unit as you can do the math with the numbers above if you so wish to do so.

 

Lets not compare SWTOR to what WoW is right now, rather compare the two on their opening day. I played WoW for almost 6 of the 7 years it has been out. I loved the game but wanted to move to something new. I'm a big time Star Wars fan so this game fills my MMO itch. Sure SWTOR has its flaws but i can say without a doubt SWTOR has more content then WoW did on launch and that is an understatement....

 

Flawed logic buddy.

 

You can only compare SWTOR to how WOW is today as Bioware know exactly where the MMO bar is at the moment. You see when a business releases a new model, they don't say ok guys this has to be better than the model our competitors released 7 years ago LOL, they make sure it's better than their competitors current model

 

The reason SWTOR has failed (yes it has we all know it) is because it does not have anywhere near as many MMO features as Rift or WOW, it's that simple. It does not even have a guild bank ffs.

[grandmasterub]

Suprised by the vanguard nerf.

 

I'm not. Its a hybrid nerf. All the classes will get it eventually.

[johnnysixkilla]

Flawed logic buddy.

 

You can only compare SWTOR to how WOW is today as Bioware know exactly where the MMO bar is at the moment. You see when a business releases a new model, they don't say ok guys this has to be better than the model our competitors released 7 years ago LOL, they make sure it's better than their competitors current model

 

The reason SWTOR has failed (yes it has we all know it) is because it does not have anywhere near as many MMO features as Rift or WOW, it's that simple. It does not even have a guild bank ffs.

 

You must realize that the MMO business is NOTHING like any other business. It's a subscription based business where the product gets expanded every so often. In other words, for your hypothesis to be true about MMO's, an MMO needs to be in production for 12 years before they're able to release. Probably even longer because in the eon that the game has been in production, new products have come out. In fact, with your hypothesis in mind, an MMO can never be released, because they'll constantly have to rework and add to their un-released game in order to be on par with competitors. The fact that MMO's take so prohibitively long time to develop renders your entire supposition moot. Following what you said would mean the end of computer games as a business. Think before you write.

[ZORG]

Im not done reading yet, but the Sentinel/Marauder Changes are allready totally crazy.

 

 

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

 

So they need another CD so they dont die?

 

 

Also no real changes to Assasins and Shadows, while nerving Operative/Scoundrel even more?

 

Can somebody explain to me why Backblast/Backstab now has a 3 second cooldown increase?

 

Because in a WZ these backstabbers would sneak up invis and just unload and the victim had no chance to react...

[Florial]

I'm pretty excited about the patch because it brings in new goodies and the legacy system that I've been looking forward to. I guess that I'm so casual these days that I really don't notice what class is over powered and which class is weak. Classes some and go and I really pick the class that appeals to me and not the class that is the current flavor.

 

In my very new PvP experiences, I do know that all I see are multitudes of sorcerers playing in the warzones (just started PvPing a few days ago). I try to do my healing thing and usually do okay considering that I'm a PvPing newbie. I'm usually up there in my healing numbers and want to get much better to support my team. I rolled up my SI inquisitor to just have fun with my hubby and so far I haven't been disappointed. Some of us are still pretty happy with the game although I can understand the angst of more serious players. Believe me, I understand angst so long ago when Turbine nerfed drain mages in Asheron's Call 1. I was pretty danged angry back then but learned that flavors come and go. Just play what you want and try to play it well. These days I just happily play in my usual daze.

 

My big break or make point for this game is having more things to do other that raid or die, pvp or die. SWTOR is falling a bit into the WoW, Rift trap and I would love to see more fluffy things to appeal to the more casual player like myself---give us housing or ship customization, give us a meaningful achievement system, give us a hobby system. Patch 1.2 does intrigue me and I'm willing to stick around and give it a try, for at least 3 more months.

[Scorpid]

No offense m8, this discussion is for the upcoming patch in SWTOR.

 

We (and I may be guilty as well) should keep on topic about patch 1.2

 

None taken, but i'm going to go ahead and take a wild guess that you like most others only read the first few reply's and did not really get involved in the thread. This was not a reply to the OP but to the many comments within this thread.

[Scorpid]

Flawed logic buddy.

 

You can only compare SWTOR to how WOW is today as Bioware know exactly where the MMO bar is at the moment. You see when a business releases a new model, they don't say ok guys this has to be better than the model our competitors released 7 years ago LOL, they make sure it's better than their competitors current model

 

The reason SWTOR has failed (yes it has we all know it) is because it does not have anywhere near as many MMO features as Rift or WOW, it's that simple. It does not even have a guild bank ffs.

 

I guess you misunderstood the point. SWTOR has released with better and tons more content then what wow did and has to this date. You can debate that all you want but i can think of only a few things SWTOR doesn't have that WoW does which is fishing, swimming, flying mounts, barber shop....hmm thats really all i can think of.... Plus most of these things will be added anyways in the future plus more things that WoW does not have currently. I think SWTOR is a much more quality game then WoW and as someone who played WoW for almost 6 of the 7 years it has been out i'm not just saying it to say it.

 

SWTOR has many things WoW does not. Huge cities, some buildings can be almost the size of a city in WoW alone, your very own spaceship, companions and the ability to have them craft for you, different bag tab for quest items, better graphics, quality story with voice over acting, legacy system, social system, there are probably a lot of things i missed but you get the idea....

Edited March 18, 2012 by Scorpid

[RealAeiouy]

I have resubbed. Back to playing my 50 sentinel, thanks BW!

 

I read through the novella of patch notes and am pretty excited.

[ryathal]

I guess you misunderstood the point. SWTOR has released with better and tons more content then what wow did and has to this date. You can debate that all you want but i can think of only a few things SWTOR doesn't have that WoW does which is fishing, swimming, flying mounts, barber shop....hmm thats really all i can think of.... Plus most of these things will be added anyways in the future plus more things that WoW does not have currently. I think SWTOR is a much more quality game then WoW and as someone who played WoW for almost 6 of the 7 years it has been out i'm not just saying it to say it.

 

SWTOR has many things WoW does not. Huge cities, some buildings can be almost the size of a city in WoW alone, your very own spaceship, companions and the ability to have them craft for you, different bag tab for quest items, better graphics, quality story with voice over acting, legacy system, social system, there are probably a lot of things i missed but you get the idea....

 

you forgot addons, macros LFD, LFR, weather, day/night cycles, unrestricted capital cities, achievements, guild banks, guild leveling, other factions, seasonal events, combat log, armory, faction change, race change, name change, server transfer.

[Gankdalf_]

you forgot addons, macros LFD, LFR, weather, day/night cycles, unrestricted capital cities, achievements, guild banks, guild leveling, other factions, seasonal events, combat log, armory, faction change, race change, name change, server transfer.

 

I am suprised you even replied to such a misinformed post, that guy has clearly not played WOW.

[Gankdalf_]

You must realize that the MMO business is NOTHING like any other business. It's a subscription based business where the product gets expanded every so often. In other words, for your hypothesis to be true about MMO's, an MMO needs to be in production for 12 years before they're able to release. Probably even longer because in the eon that the game has been in production, new products have come out. In fact, with your hypothesis in mind, an MMO can never be released, because they'll constantly have to rework and add to their un-released game in order to be on par with competitors. The fact that MMO's take so prohibitively long time to develop renders your entire supposition moot. Following what you said would mean the end of computer games as a business. Think before you write.

 

No idea what you are on about pal.

 

A new MMO needs to have the basic tools to allow the players to be part of the Massive Multiplayer experience. SWTOR failed to give the players the tools and this is why many of them have left. SWTOR paid no attention to what made WOW the most popular MMO in history and they have paid a very high price for this failure.

 

A new MMO needs to have LFG, Guild bank, Useful crafting, A world that is alive a world not small enough to be crowded but not large enough to make the game feel like a single player game. It needs to feel massive, the battlegrounds need to be exciting and 8 v 8 is not exciting. 40 v 40 is exciting. It also needs to have some great looking gear or people won't want to wear it. You need a good AH so that you can trade and make a vibrant economy, the SWTOR AH was designed by a nursery school I think. New MMO's will always lack end game content, that comes over time but to lack the basic MMO tools is just pathetic.

 

The bottom line here is SWTOR spent all their time and money adding something that most MMO players will say is not really important and that as we all know is Voice acting. I played WOW for 7 years and not once did I think, damn I wish we had voice acting. I played SWTOR for 3 months and wished I had all the above mentioned things.

 

The very thing that made wow **** imo was adding loads of new worlds, it spread out the player base too thin and made the game feel small. SWTOR have done exactly the same, they should have just had 1 or 2 planets, made different level zones on the planets. This would have created a thriving world where you are always meeting people, loads of world pvp and we would feel as if we were in an MMO and not some single player game.

[Varteras]

I guess you misunderstood the point. SWTOR has released with better and tons more content then what wow did and has to this date. You can debate that all you want but i can think of only a few things SWTOR doesn't have that WoW does which is fishing, swimming, flying mounts, barber shop....hmm thats really all i can think of.... Plus most of these things will be added anyways in the future plus more things that WoW does not have currently. I think SWTOR is a much more quality game then WoW and as someone who played WoW for almost 6 of the 7 years it has been out i'm not just saying it to say it.

 

SWTOR has many things WoW does not. Huge cities, some buildings can be almost the size of a city in WoW alone, your very own spaceship, companions and the ability to have them craft for you, different bag tab for quest items, better graphics, quality story with voice over acting, legacy system, social system, there are probably a lot of things i missed but you get the idea....

 

I wouldn't go this far. While I agree with you that many expectations of new MMOs these days are unrealistic (like I said in a previous post this is a product of WoW having been around for about 12 years total) I would not dare say that TOR right now has so much more available than WoW. What can be said is that TOR launched with the foundation necessary to build a potentially massive experience the likes of which has not been seen since WoW. There are quite a few things going into this patch that the community wanted and a Legacy system encouraging alt play with a nice list of rewards that will only continue to grow. This is something that WoW does not have. These are all things we can now check off the list as far as what people wanted in TOR to match WoW and ways to surpass it. Now we can focus efforts to push for the things still not included yet.

[ryathal]

I am suprised you even replied to such a misinformed post, that guy has clearly not played WOW.

 

misinformation is rampant, people should be made aware just how far away swtor is from being a full featured mmo of 2012, not 2004.

[Blloodbane]

People will never be satisfied as soon as the next patch is released five seconds later there'll be a Nother post call my god no new content already I'm canceling my subscription.

[Varteras]

People will never be satisfied as soon as the next patch is released five seconds later there'll be a Nother post call my god no new content already I'm canceling my subscription.

 

I agree, though some people do have legitimate complaints (at least I feel) about certain things not being in on Day 1. Simple things like target-of-target visually represented on the UI, UI scaling, a /roll command, and the ability to invite guildmates to your group by right clicking on their names are things that honestly perplex me being absent at launch. It's the ones who complain about not having 5 Operations, 10 Warzones, 30 Flashpoints, and big features that aren't even staples of most or any MMOs at launch who make me roll my eyes and scout out the next nerdrage topic. At least when the people who CAN be satisfied get what they want we can more easily distinguish between people who have realistic concerns and those who just rage and hate for the sake of it. Quite a few people were made happy by the things that are coming in 1.2 and if the hints we are getting about 1.3 are any indication we'll see even more people finally calming the heck down.

[Dawgtide]

The bottom line here is SWTOR spent all their time and money adding something that most MMO players will say is not really important and that as we all know is Voice acting. I played WOW for 7 years and not once did I think, damn I wish we had voice acting. I played SWTOR for 3 months and wished I had all the above mentioned things.

 

The very thing that made wow **** imo was adding loads of new worlds, it spread out the player base too thin and made the game feel small. SWTOR have done exactly the same, they should have just had 1 or 2 planets, made different level zones on the planets. This would have created a thriving world where you are always meeting people, loads of world pvp and we would feel as if we were in an MMO and not some single player game.

 

That is a broad generalization. Many people like me that read the boards and many that don't may like the voice acting. After years of EQ, WOW, and any other game, we have read all the text we want to read. I played EQ for 8 years and completed every class epic quests and the whole time was wishing I had more storylines like those.

 

The voice acting allows us to listen and see it instead of read it. It makes stories easier to remember in my opinion as compared to reading the test. I don't think most say we don't need the video. If they do, then this is the wrong game for them. Time to leave pure and simple.

 

As for the other paragraph, I don't know too many games with just 1 or 2 planets. The one I can think of off the top of my head is DC Universe Online. You may want to try it. It didn't hold my interest due to an even shorter leveling process than this game. You may like it though and it does have PVP.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Dawgtide

[GalacticKegger]

No idea what you are on about pal.

 

A new MMO needs to have the basic tools to allow the players to be part of the Massive Multiplayer experience. SWTOR failed to give the players the tools and this is why many of them have left. SWTOR paid no attention to what made WOW the most popular MMO in history and they have paid a very high price for this failure.

 

A new MMO needs to have LFG, Guild bank, Useful crafting, A world that is alive a world not small enough to be crowded but not large enough to make the game feel like a single player game. It needs to feel massive, the battlegrounds need to be exciting and 8 v 8 is not exciting. 40 v 40 is exciting. It also needs to have some great looking gear or people won't want to wear it. You need a good AH so that you can trade and make a vibrant economy, the SWTOR AH was designed by a nursery school I think. New MMO's will always lack end game content, that comes over time but to lack the basic MMO tools is just pathetic.

 

The bottom line here is SWTOR spent all their time and money adding something that most MMO players will say is not really important and that as we all know is Voice acting. I played WOW for 7 years and not once did I think, damn I wish we had voice acting. I played SWTOR for 3 months and wished I had all the above mentioned things.

 

The very thing that made wow **** imo was adding loads of new worlds, it spread out the player base too thin and made the game feel small. SWTOR have done exactly the same, they should have just had 1 or 2 planets, made different level zones on the planets. This would have created a thriving world where you are always meeting people, loads of world pvp and we would feel as if we were in an MMO and not some single player game.

Define many.

 

There were more than 60 players in Drumond Kaas on the PTS tonight, which is 10x more than there usually is on that planet. 1.2 has created a big buzz and it is going to be a great patch. Slot field on the GTN, fully customizable UI ... tons of new stuff. Some will say 1.2 should have been part of the game at launch. Well, unless one is either an EA shareholder or paid mole - who cares? Like it or don't like it. Play it or don't play it. Just stop spitting at it.

Edited March 18, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bryoal]

I hear 1.3 will be the big patch, and too little too late patch

 

Wait weren't you some guru dude back in the beta days that stated he was leaving the game after a month?

 

What happened bro?

[Solsticewind]

I have just one thing to ask I could careless about the class stuff in the patch notes or the stuff in the patch at all. I want to know are they just using the PvP fights to balance the classes in the game?

[Anthya]

What I find hilarious is the people who claim WoW was so hugely popular because of its LFG/LFD tool.

 

Does noone realise that the majority of WoW's growth occurred pre-WOTLK? WoW hit 11.5 million subscribers just after the release of WOTLK (see: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/52065) and hit 11 million just before the release of WOTLK (see: http://techcrunch.com/2008/10/29/world-of-warcraft-hits-11-million-subscribers-mark-shows-signs-of-slowing/).

 

The LFD tool was implemented in Patch 3.3.0 on Dec 8, 2009.

 

So the majority of WoW's popularity had NOTHING TO DO with the LFD tool. You can't claim that a 'AAA' MMO needs these features to be successful and then cite WoW as an example. It's just a straight out logical fallacy.

[savagepotato]

I have just one thing to ask I could careless about the class stuff in the patch notes or the stuff in the patch at all. I want to know are they just using the PvP fights to balance the classes in the game?

 

Since they just eradicated endgame healing, I would say yes, very much so.

[Anthya]

Since they just eradicated endgame healing, I would say yes, very much so.

 

The typical MMO forum-goer really does have a talent for hyperbole.

[savagepotato]

The typical MMO forum-goer really does have a talent for hyperbole.

 

See 80 page thread filled with healers unsubbing in pts forum.

[Anthya]

See 80 page thread filled with healers unsubbing in pts forum.

 

Wow, you did it again.

 

Well done sir, I tip my hat off to you.