This is the PvP version of the standard HEC tactics build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMrorfkdsZb.1 This is the Ion Cell verstion of tactics for PvP. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZMsrrobfkdsZb.1 I usually run the ion cell version and guard my healer buddy. It is not ammo friendly. You can still do solid damage but your ammo gets drained very quickly and you have to use Recharge Cells whenever its up and pray there isnt serious combat inc if its not. I've run the HEC version as well and like posted above your rotation includes next to 0 hammer shots. Throw em in every once and awhile or if they're out of range but its mostly IP spam. Lots of dps, not as "burst" as assault but the reduced riot strike time makes you equally effective against healers imo. I dislike BF Training, especially with the extra upcoming snares. It doesn't stack with HTL and I honestly didn't ever notice the extra speed when I had it.

I'll never understand the serrated blades/CT hate. I agree guts damage leaves something to be desired but the complaints are ridiculous. Maybe if serrated blades had some armor pen on it for the kinetic portion?

Ive run it for pvp for awhile now. Is not terribly ammo efficient no. Altho the lack of ammo cost on riot strike will help a lot

I'm not. Its a hybrid nerf. All the classes will get it eventually.

rotation is really only important if the fight is going to be long enough that you need to manage your ammo. If that rotation is killing things just fine then carry on. once you get farther up into the trees where you get procs and stuff then rotation will become more important.

I've run it for pve purposes for awhile now. Like I said I dont find it viable while using plasma cell.

parakeet is iron fist with points in assault instead of tactics (basically). you run ion cell. get both storm and ionic accelerator. Also. They're making it easier to proc combat tactics so autocrit HiBs will happen more often. Its a minor dps boost at best. The real improvement to tactics is the reduced cost on riot strike. The IronFist build is going to be beastmode. Especially since the way tactics is designed theres no real way for them to nerf that particular hybrid without completely redesigning the tree.

Too expensive to maintain 2 dots without running HEC from my experience.

Basically its the same thing they did to shadows. Nerf the popular hybrid spec. Nerf the uber proc. I like the tactics changes although I'm not sure its enough. I feel like either gut or fire pulse needs a little more umph and then it would be golden. IF is going to gain in popularity now... As for sent/guard they probably got a little more love than necessary but I don't see it being the end of the world. Honestly surprised dps shadows didn't get anything seeing as theyre nigh useless.

surprised at the overall lack of changes to the shadow tbh. infil needs a major look imo. the whole stealther/backstabber/caster doesnt mesh well outside balances dot form. KC is roughly balanced imo so no surprises there. thought they might do a more major revamp of the class though seeing as most of our tools do not match up well with the competing classes

Do you even read the shadow boards?

The only thing you posted that no other class can do better is be first to the ball. And even then as soon as you get it another class will pull you to the acid and /dance by your corpse. Also notice how the only dps thing I mentioned is scoundrel burst... Tools are significantly more effective in huttball than damage but you still need someone to kill people. If the enemy is dead in their spawn then they aren't knocking you into pits or grabbing the ball. Dead healers arent keeping ball carriers alive. If you kill the guy waiting for a pass then they have to walk it... To completely ignore damage dealing in huttball is fail...

In huttball I would take both a JKG and a Vanguard over KC shadow. -better mobility -better survivability In huttball I would take a sentinel and a scrapper over a Infil Shadow. -better burst & cc (scrapper) -better mobility & utility (sentinel) -better survivability (both) In huttball I would take any ranged dps or assault Vanguard over a balance shadow. -fully ranged is essential to controlling mid -snipers & commandos have better survivability (arguably sages as well) -sages/commandos can offheal -for comparison semi melee assaultvg is more survivable, better burst, on demand dot damage and gets pull

If you play the "would I rather have?" game and are honest about it the shadow will pretty much never come out on top. Thats the point of this thread, because in ranked play that is exactly what happens eventully. Hence the emphasis on specialist vs generalist.

OP has BiS Means... Original Post has best in slot. Power>surge IF you are in diminishing returns on surge already

Cleansing your dot is essentially a heal. You aren't reducing their output healing. Not to mention you spend full forcecost per dot but every one they cleanse reduces your damage/force. The other part if your argument about pressure. While this is somewhat true there are other classes that "apply pressure" better. Assault or tactics vanguards can both spam dot pressure while also having better burst and more survivability. In tactics case the burst is slightly less but resources are basically a non issue. I believe the point powerr is making is that: Generally in ranked pvp situations it becomes like hardcore pve raiding where everything is min/maxed. When you min/max compare the damage, survivability & utility of each shadow role relative to their competitor the shadow always comes up short.

Id agree with that. Ive only rolled pve servers so far (friends here) but in all previous MMOs I've ben pvp all the way. So far I dominate in WZ and I get a ton of people on my team who have no clue how to pvp. Ive never been super amazing at pvp, good, but im not one to carry a team. On this pve server I can easily carry. Note: this disappears somewhat at 50 because you run into the dedicated pvpers who do have a clue

Delayed double post FTL

All of what hes said is his opinion based on educated guess work. I'm sure he can take it a step further and "take a stab" at what he expects to transpire. Also even with changes the core playstyle of the classes will likely remain. Major changes like shadows getting a leap or something would have to occur for the games dynamics to be heavily altered.

So in your opinion powerr you suggest that shadows in general will become irrelevant to ranked pvp? In said scenario where all shadows are edged out due to being at least minorly inferior to other ACs, what classes do you expect to be the mainstays of pvp (fotm asside)

IMO use this spec. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZMsMrorfkdsZb.1 Allows for the use of ioncell if paired with a healer or if greater survivability is needed. For PvE you've only wasted 3 points in what would be aim. This is a slight dps loss but outside hardcore ops guilds it won't matter.

All shadow specs excel at 1v1s for the most part. In team fights only kinetic will stand up very long.

tbh id take an assault vanguard over an inf shadow.. Ideal for me would be Kin Shadow Tank Van Assault Van Commando heals Sage Heals Sentinel Gunslinger Guardian/Gunnery commando/dps sage The guardian is mainly for huttball. Theyre too beast

tbh there is only 1 crucial rule for each wz. Alderaan: defense > offense. Hold what you own to the last man before trying to take another turret. Voidstar: do not abandon the door if on defense. A good offense will pull your focus away from the door. Huttball: pass the GD ball. Even to no one. If you die with the ball in your hands you have failed. #1 rule applicable to all WZs: COMMUNICATE with your team. There are obviously more specifics for each wz and unique situations but if everyone followed those 4 rules play would improve immensely

I was initially ticked off at projects delay and I'd still like to see it fixed but force wave is a way bigger deal. I can't count the number if times that my kb had been nullified by an inquiz or jugg push going off faster even though I clearly started first. Not to mention our kb moves them like 5m while everyone else puts me back ~20m. Very frustrating