★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

[Mirialol]

This. Arenas are not fun and ruined WoW PVP.

 

 

From my perspective,

 

How typical players that claim "arena ruined wow pvp" are born:

 

 

1. BillyBob is a casual gamer who doesn't really like competitive games, logs in wow every once in a while to run dungeons and bg's. skillwise he is below average subpar player that doesnt know keybinds, wears wrong gear/enchants, does not know even his own class let alone other 9 classes.

 

2. BillyBob sees people that wear conquest point gear (arena gear) destroy him in his BG's.

 

3. BillyBob spams general channel for a teammate to try to queue arena (teammate likewise skill = subpar, no keybind, partially honor farmed gear with wrong gems/enchant) and gets repeatedly crushed at 900~1100 MMR with 30% win ratio

 

4. After a week or so BillyBob assumes that arena is "unbalanced" and "killed wow pvp" without even realizing his own flaws or bothering to improve his game.

 

5. BillyBob quits wow, starts playing star wars and constantly posts that arena should never be added to SWTOR.

 

 

 

 

What should WoW have done differently to prevent this?

 

1. Arena SHOULD NOT reward players with better gear or advantages of any kind

 

let the casuals play their BG. dont make arena award better gears

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[Scorpid]

Arenas break games that's all there is too it, look at wow arenas destroyed the game. I would cry is they added arenas into swtor.

 

Besides Arenas have no spot in Star Wars doesn't make sense.

[Unpleasant]

From my perspective,

 

How typical players that claim "arena ruined wow pvp" are born:

 

 

1. BillyBob is a casual gamer who doesn't really like competitive games, logs in wow every once in a while to run dungeons and bg's. skillwise he is below average subpar player that doesnt know keybinds, wears wrong gear/enchants, does not know even his own class let alone other 9 classes.

 

2. BillyBob sees people that wear conquest point gear (arena gear) destroy him in his BG's.

 

3. BillyBob spams general channel for a teammate to try to queue arena (teammate likewise skill = subpar, no keybind, partially honor farmed gear with wrong gems/enchant) and gets repeatedly crushed at 900~1100 MMR with 30% win ratio

 

4. After a week or so BillyBob assumes that arena is "unbalanced" and "killed wow pvp" without even realizing his own flaws or bothering to improve his game.

 

5. BillyBob quits wow, starts playing star wars and constantly posts that arena should never be added to SWTOR.

 

 

 

 

What should WoW have done differently to prevent this?

 

 

 

let the casuals play their BG. dont make arena award better gears

 

"If you don't agree with me, you're just bad"

 

Really?

 

No, all arenas did was make it imperative that everyone play the FTM class and had blizzard constantly breaking three things every time they fixed one balance issue. All gear was based off of arenas and battlegrounds stopped mattering and the PVP community halved itself in just a couple years. This is an MMO based on Star Wars, and none of that lends itself to 3v3 instanced PVP in an arena. If anything, we should be wanting bigger battles and a more epic scale, not ridiculous duels inside of a cardboard box. Back in WoW, myself and plenty others loved to reminisce about the days of several-day-long 40 v 40 Alterac Valley battles with all sorts of crazy stuff going on, with massive giants and cavalry attacks and the works. Know what you never hear? "Man, I hated PVP but adding arena was such a good idea!" Which one sounds more appealing? An epic battle between dozens of Jedi and Sith, or 5v5 eSports where you need gear to win and need to win to get gear?

[Bazzoong]

Arenas did not "destroy" wow pvp, skillcapped and 3rd party financial interests did, if no arena means those will stay away from this game, awesome.

[Mirialol]

Arenas did not "destroy" wow pvp, skillcapped and 3rd party financial interests did, if no arena means those will stay away from this game, awesome.

 

quoted for truth

 

 

 

 

but blizzard also had fault in this, for complete apathy toward pvp in general. they did not punish cheaters, win traders, and rating sellers

 

 

any competitive game, if unregulated, is bound to have shady activities

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[Antinoobkiller]

I can tell you, been playing wow for almost 5years with some breaks.

 

And NO this game is has not so good classbalance as you saying it has. If Areans were to be implemented right now you would see how ****** terrible the classbalance is in this game.

 

With that said, I do support Arenas. And Arenas and competive/rated warzones should be played so EVERYONE HAS THE SAME GEAR. Like an ArenaSet just for arena and rated competive warzones. And everyone joining a rated warzone or arena should have access to that gear right to when they join the rated Arena or warzone. This gear should only be for rated Arena/warzone and not to be worn outside of the arenas and warzones.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Antinoobkiller

[Daayz]

dev's would then actually have to balance the game ;\ lol

 

or team comps like triple operative will pretty much rofl stomp everything in area.

[Spazbitelol]

Yes Yes Yes gimme Arena.

 

It´s way easier to find 1-3 players who are willing to play competitive pvp with me, than to find 7 or more for rated wz. I´m in a pvp guild atm, and trust me, it´s hard enough to keep all the people together and playing the game until 1.2 hits...

[Elaithe]

Arenas are the worst thing that could ever be implemented in to this game.

[TehHoneyBadger]

Arenas are the worst thing that could ever be implemented in to this game.

 

why? don't you like competitive pvp?

[deltons]

First off, major props for the post. This is easily the most well made pro-arena thread to date. I played WoW from vanilla to mid s9 in Cata, with my focus being nearly 100% on arena from the time it came out.

 

I will say what killed the game for me and most of my arena partners was at the top level, team inactivity was unbearable. Given there were better times for it, such as during the tourney realms or at the end of BC / Early WOTLK on Cho'gall or ~S7 on Blackrock. But in Cata the majority of top tier of PvPers split off into different battlegroups and it made it almost impossible to queue some nights.

 

If (and hopefully when) they implement arenas in SWTOR I hope that they don't go the battle group route and just have every server play against each other (possibly in divisions based on the continent because of latency, though I would love to play europeans in arena as they had some very top notch teams in WoW).

 

I also haven't played since Feb last year (archaeology ban wave) so they could have changed that to queue vs everyone now like they had in RBG's.

 

Edit: I actually think they did change it to everyone vs everyone but I feel like I remember it about to happen right before I got banned. Though I'm not 100% sure on this.

Edited March 16, 2012 by deltons

[AetherMcLoud]

I'm a hardcore PVPer. As soon as they add arena I'll leave this game.

 

Your argument is invalid.

[MrXen]

Gotta say OP, not much I'd change about your idea, I'm on board 100%.

 

 

 

No matter how much people complain about "arenas garbage" or "this isnt WoW" crap its just a shield to hide their goal of being negative and close-minded to everything.

 

 

 

I sincerely hope Bioware implements something akin to this idea, as well as more options for pvp, none with extra, or "special" rewards comparatively, but purely options for a fun and variable experience.

[MrXen]

I'm a hardcore PVPer. As soon as they add arena I'll leave this game.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

 

 

If you are going to quit the game instantly upon the release of new pvp content, you aren't a "hardcore pvper" whatever that means.

 

 

 

You forget, if you don't like arena style play, then stick to playing warzones, those aren't getting removed. Solved all your issues right there, see?

 

 

Don't try to limit what other people can play or what they want when it offers no disadvantage to you. Thanks. Bye.

[VincentWolf]

Ok I perfectly understand that there are alot of people who want arenas. However wow arena ruined whole pvp experience for me personally so much (completely, really), that I do not want to see it ever again in any other game. Unless it will give absolutely NO specific rewards whatsoever. Just your pure rating, there take it, have fun with it. We don't care that you're highest rated sith on server, I'll still kill you in good fair 1v1 given same gear.

But IF they going to do same thing as in wow -- rewarding better player with better gear, which makes NO sense whatsoever, then I really do f***ng mind having arenas at all. Big time. I already dislike rated warzones, but I shall wait and see how they handle it, if it's gonna be another premade vs pug grindfest, I'll be gone from this game (sorry for throwing words like this, I know there's plenty of idiots promising to quit at every corner, but the only thing that keeps me in this game is that I can come online any time I want, queue solo for pvp and play. I don't want to HAVE to have friends/party/guild to be able to get top gear).

 

And please don't give me this crap about "arena is more skill". Being successful in arena only means that you can be arsed to find likeminded people, group up with them at set times and use voice communication. That's it. Your actual skill is not one bit higher than any other decent player out there who only does warzones/battlegrounds/you name it.

 

You forget, if you don't like arena style play, then stick to playing warzones, those aren't getting removed. Solved all your issues right there, see?

They already force us to do rated pvp for the top pvp gear if I'm not mistaken. That alone already is not cool. Not cool one friggin' slightest bit. But if they add arena and start award top players with best gear, some pro titles and mounts, then what point there be in warzones?

Edited March 16, 2012 by VincentWolf

[deltons]

I'm a hardcore PVPer. As soon as they add arena I'll leave this game.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

So basically you are saying you play a lot?

 

Because all the "hardcore" PvPer's I know are all about competition, not the carrot on a stick. I know a few people who pvp a ton for the carrot on the stick and that's all fine and dandy. Hardcore is a very broad word. Arena's have been proven to be extremely competitive in WoW. There were paid tournaments for WoW arena hosted both by Blizzard and other organizations. On top of that many servers are hosting 3v3/4v4 tournaments already.

 

So for you "hardcore" means I PvP a lot, it's all I do but I don't want competition. Arena's aren't for you, but that doesn't mean they aren't good for other "hardcore" PvPers. Next time clarify what you mean by hardcore.

Edited March 16, 2012 by deltons

[darkoccisor]

Frankly I don't like arena, even though that was one of the few things I used to do in wow. But yeah don't like arena

but this part caught my eye...

 

Warzones = objective oriented (casual) PvP. Arenas = survival/killing oriented (competitive) PvP.

 

True Wz's are TOO objective oriented... so why not screw the whole arena thing and add a few "last man standing" type of wz's, I bet most whiners would like that idea seeing as all they really seem to want is mindless killing so why not ^^ plus it could be fun, I mean it's fun in fps online games so.

[Nessirin]

Oh boy, lets turn this game into WoW, so developers not only have to deal with:

 

PvE and PvP balance.

 

 

Lets make it so they have to deal with PvE balance, PvP balance, Class balance in general, and Class Comp balance in small 2v2 teams and Class Comp balance in 3v3 teams.

 

 

We're getting rated WZ's, be happy about that. And it will be much easier on BW to balance classes around 8v8. Lets leave Arena's to a more mature (in term of time spent in mmo's and competitive games) developers.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Nessirin

[VincentWolf]

Arena's have been proven to be extremely competitive in WoW. There were paid tournaments for WoW arena hosted both by Blizzard and other organizations. On top of that many servers are hosting 3v3/4v4 tournaments already.

 

There, exactly what most people hate about arena is that it's treated WAY too serious in wow. It's not a real sport of some kind, it's just a part of the game, and we all pay for this game so there should be no specific rewards for it, nor any tweaks made to classes just based on that small part of the game. But that's precisely what blizzard does, they balance everything around arenas and they reward top players with gear and titles and mounts, something which should absolutely NOT happen. As I said in my previous post -- some ppl want competitive pvp like arenas, sure why not. Add it. Just don't treat them like if they're something special, that's all. Just plain rating.

[deltons]

There, exactly what most people hate about arena is that it's treated WAY too serious in wow. It's not a real sport of some kind, it's just a part of the game, and we all pay for this game so there should be no specific rewards for it, nor any tweaks made to classes just based on that small part of the game. But that's precisely what blizzard does, they balance everything around arenas and they reward top players with gear and titles and mounts, something which should absolutely NOT happen. As I said in my previous post -- some ppl want competitive pvp like arenas, sure why not. Add it. Just don't treat them like if they're something special, that's all. Just plain rating.

 

It went both ways in WoW, and I can assure you it frustrated PvPers when things were balanced for PvE just as much as the other way around. Unfortunately that is just the nature of MMO's. It will happen in this game regardless of arenas being implemented or not but luckily this game is already extremely well balanced. Unfortunately the easiest way for developers to balance everything in MMO's is to balance the classes around PvP encounters and then tune the PvE fights to fit. They can't simply adjust a few numbers in a PvP encounter like they can a PvE Mob, due to the more dynamic nature of the fight.

 

Either way, I personally am not looking for arena to give me an advantage in any way over other players. It will most likely have to give some sort of commendations just due to massive complaints over wasted time by casuals if it doesn't, but the actual gear you receive from it should be the exact same as rated warzone gear.

Edited March 16, 2012 by deltons

[Knockerz]

If arena is added I'm quit this game. Edited March 16, 2012 by Knockerz

[AetherMcLoud]

If you are going to quit the game instantly upon the release of new pvp content, you aren't a "hardcore pvper" whatever that means.

 

But people who will (according to the OP) quit the game because of lack of arenas are "hardcore pvpers"? Double standard is double I suppose.

[silvershadez]

I wonder why some people are that much against arenas that they even threaten to quit the game.

 

Who is forcing you to do the arenas?

 

I was doing arenas in WoW too. I wasn't too impressive and something around rank 40 on the whole realmpool, but it was enough to buy my stuff. And even without that i still had lots of fun doing those arenas with my friends.

 

You say those wanting to do competive PvP are overdoing it and taking this way to serious? I say you guys who threaten to quit once it would be there are taking it way to serious...

 

There is an amount of people who want to do competive PvP, that bioware shouldn't simply ignore.

[Redmarx]

There are so many reasons to list, and I want to avoid wall of texts. I will try to organize this post as much as possible.

 

...

 

5. SWTOR arena will be EASIER to balance than WoW

 

If you see most popular and overpowered comps throughout WoW, it is usually things such as rogue/mage/priest, rogue/warlock/shaman, paladin/hunter/death knight, mage/warlock/shaman, etc etc.

 

In SWTOR, we won't see that kind of 'overpowered comps' and "unbeatable synergy" in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergized so well in WoW is because of the CC's and shared diminishing returns system, which caused certain classes to synergize far better with others. Therefore some classes have more viable comps, stronger comps, and inevitable class imbalance.

 

On the other hand, SWTOR is based on resolve system, and every class has some sort of stun or CC (on a cooldown). So I dont expect to see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes. In general, I expect ALL comps to be fully viable and competitive, as long as classes are balanced around 1v1! (important!)

 

Bioware, just consider arenas as a ONE TIME INVESTMENT that will last for years to come.

 

 

Honestly, great post.

 

I applaud both your logic and your explanation, very nicely put (especially the part I quoted above with the main problem with WoW arena, that is DR synergies).

 

SWTOR has huge potential and will be easier/better to balance than WoW.

 

Hopefully the devs see this post and act on it.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Redmarx

[Scudmungus]

I, FOR ONE, WELCOME

50 v 50 ARENA MATCHES

 

...and I disagree with the statement 'it will be easier to balance because...'

 

Yes SWTOR and WoW handle CC in different ways.

 

Yes this is a factor when balancing classes, in small comps

or otherwise.

 

No this is not the only reason, and without factoring all reasons

an accurate judgement on the ease of balancing cannot be made.

 

- for example ranged/LOS/sustain are all vital elements to be

considered. There is nothing about SWTOR's systems that support

claims balancing will be 'easier'.

 

::

 

I do not care for or against Arenas. Please be aware that smaller the

scale of the conflicts, the harder balance becomes unless we begin to

normalise.

This is not a 'good' or 'bad' thing - it is, however, not 'easier'.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Scudmungus