★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

[Agemnon]

There are so many reasons to list, and I want to avoid wall of texts. I will try to organize this post as much as possible.

 

 

 

 

-Objective oriented PvP doesn't give players any incentives to "play well". In warzones, you simply respawn if you are killed due to inferior casting animations or being ROFLstomped by a team that actually manages to stay together while the other team is fragmented, or by simply not being a FOTM class that has short CDs and super fast resource regeneration.

[/u]

 

Fixed. Lol at that awkward moment when 3 powertechs keep fighting a team with the same composition, and all are dismayed at the playing field actually being level (for all the wrong reasons).

[TheMunny]

Well thought out post, but after the arena debacle of WoW I vote no for now. While the idea of arenas was unique in its time I for one am glad to see it DoA in this game. I would rather have the Devs spend time trying to figure out a creative way to get the WAR cooking on all cylinders.

 

Not to mention the in game community after the Arenas inception took a huge turn for the worse, no thanks for a repeat.

[iceperson]

You can't throw three 5'10" basketball players on one team and expect to do well. Arena is about skill, comp, and strategy--like nearly every other sport. RMP in WoW would be the triangle in basketball, yes it's been strong and effective for years; however, there are alternatives and many other comps can be successful.

 

yeah right

 

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2200&mt=5&mg=20

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2400&mt=5&mg=20

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2600&mt=5&mg=20

 

how to succeed in arena

1) find an OP comp

2) face-roll people who didn't do 1

[Agemnon]

As a multi-gladiator warrior from WoW, I can tell you now this game is not ready for Arena. I enjoy the pvp in this game a lot, but this game doesn't even have macros to support focus targets and the character interaction still feels clunky, keybinds sometimes don't go off, etc. Unless you're wanting to treat it like skimishes then Arena would just put the imbalances of these classes under more scrutiny.

 

A PvE class making gladiator = win. Yeah I dislike not having macros too I keep typing either tab to target hostile or the ` above it to target friendly and it oftentimes doesn't go to whom I want. Sometimes clicking is viable, though unrealistic most of the time because people keep running around and other characters get in their way.

[Mirialol]

Was going to come in and reject, I then read the reasons why arenas should be allowed and softened my ideas. After reading your suggestions for improvement over WoW's arena, I would LOVE these ideas to be implemented. Only problem is that the 1v1 arena will inspire some EXTREME QQ.

 

I can see terrible players que-ing in and getting wrecked by some class, then coming here to cry NERF. If the 1v1 arenas would be going against people with similar rankings/records (or maybe just not save the records for 1v1, TF2 got it right when they didn't have a K/D).

 

 

yea, but queues will be based on ratings, so terrible players will queue in vs other terrible players (hopefully having close to 50% win rate)

[jitsuo]

yea, but queues will be based on ratings, so terrible players will queue in vs other terrible players (hopefully having close to 50% win rate)

 

I would be all for it. I think a 1v1 arena would make players themselves get better. Certain classes and specs will be seen a LOT so strats will be inspired to beat them. For the bottom 50% it will inspire cookie cutters, for the top 50% it will inspire creativity.

[caultonpos]

Ok I vote arena for 2013 - earliest it will come i bet Edited March 16, 2012 by caultonpos

[Mirialol]

yeah right

 

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2200&mt=5&mg=20

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2400&mt=5&mg=20

http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2600&mt=5&mg=20

 

how to succeed in arena

1) find an OP comp

2) face-roll people who didn't do 1

 

thats why i suggested the idea of 1v1 arena with 'weighted' ratings to help point out class imbalance issues, so we can avoid such problem in swtor

 

 

plus we won't see that kind of 'OP comps' and unbeatable synergy in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergize so well in WoW is because of the CC's and diminishing returns. SWTOR is based on resolve system, so we wont see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes.

[iceperson]

thats why i suggested the idea of 1v1 arena with 'weighted' ratings to help point out class imbalance issues, so we can avoid such problem in swtor

 

 

plus we won't see that kind of 'OP comps' and unbeatable synergy in WoW. Reason why certain classes synergize so well in WoW is because of the CC's and diminishing returns. SWTOR is based on resolve system, so we wont see such exceptionally strong class synergy between any particular classes.

 

lol, in 1v1 there will always be class balance issues unless all the classes are identical. is this a joke thread?

[Mirialol]

lol, in 1v1 there will always be class balance issues unless all the classes are identical. is this a joke thread?

 

goal of 1v1 ladder would be to provide data to help shape 1v1 balance of the game.

 

i firmly believe given enough time and effort from playerbase/bioware, all 36 matchups in this game can be maintained close to 50:50 (at most 60:40) ratio as possible

 

 

1v1 ladder itself can potentially be 'extremely balanced' with weighted point gain/loss system, even if not all matchups are 50:50 balanced

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[Elear]

Let me open with everyone favourite quote

Pardo thinks that the single greatest mistake as far as design of the game is concerned was the choice to introduce competitive "e-sports" into the game via Arenas.

 

 

And on, to "lying, or just ignorant?"

 

3. Arena will help balance this game's PvP

 

-First of all you don't seem to know how unbalanced WoW is. One thing that I was impressed with SWTOR as a game was that, for a new game, the classes were EXTREMELY balanced. I played WoW for years since TBC, and even 1v1-wise star wars is FAR more balanced than WoW ever was.

 

 

-So many of you complain that how "unbalanced" this game is. People claim that SWTOR can't have arenas because it is "unbalanced". But do you even know what makes this game so unbalanced, how is it unbalanced, or how can the game be fixed? Everyone has different opinion on what class is OP... every one whines about different things on pvp forums, everything is a huge mess.

Surprise. Wow had arenas and was unbalanced. SWTOR doesn't have arenas and is balanced. So how arenas affect so-called 'balance'?

 

 

 

-Arenas will provide both the players and developers with valuable statistics and numbers they need to see which classes and which aspects of the game are truly unbalanced. Arena ladder in my opinion should not only show you names / classes / ratings, but it should also publicly show all of these raw data to allow us to see the state of the game. Some of these include...

 

*We can compare the percentage distribution of the 8 classes on the top ~200 of the ladder, to the overall class population distribution.

 

*Most popular (FOTM) team comps on the ladder to study class synergies

 

*Win loss ratio % of every class vs class matchup (for 1v1 arena), to see which class is particularly overpowered vs another class.

 

*more

 

Although some of player opinions on the PvP forums are valuable, arenas will give us the numerical data that we can actually work with. It will answer all of these questions and give us an idea of how to solve them.

Another surprise. Devs already have access to such data(and much more). And by not giving it to public they prevent 'justified' crying('class A on average kills others 10% faster than my class! nerf nao!').

 

 

 

Would you rather have this game balanced around endless QQ'ers and whine threads on PvP forums? Or would you have the game balanced around TANGIBLE statistics and numbers? you decide...

 

I would rather not have game balanced around some stupid 2v2, thank you. You folks playing only arenas may not care about anything else, but you know, others do.

[iceperson]

goal of 1v1 ladder would be to provide data to help shape 1v1 balance of the game.

 

i firmly believe given enough time and effort from playerbase/bioware, all 36 matchups in this game can be maintained close to 50:50 (at most 60:40) ratio as possible

 

 

1v1 ladder itself can potentially be 'extremely balanced' with weighted point gain/loss system, even if not all matchups are 50:50 balanced

 

wow, just wow. i suggest you stick with karate champ. MMOs with unique classes with interesting and defining abilities isn't for you.

[Mirialol]

wow, just wow. i suggest you stick with karate champ. MMOs with unique classes with interesting and defining abilities isn't for you.

 

you complain because classes are unbalanced in pvp

 

 

but now you say you're going to complain if classes become perfectly balanced 50:50. classes can be balanced while still retaining their individuality and class defining abilities.

 

 

what do you really want?

[Ritterific]

That was a very well thought out post. I particularly appreciated that you took the time to explain how Blizzard wished they could "uninvent" arena play. Unfortunately, I think Blizzard made the right move trying to down play arenas and introduced the rated battlegrounds.

 

In WoW, rated battlegrounds didn't work for a few reasons. First and foremost, arenas were already in the game and organizing 5 (or the easiest of all just 2) people onto a team was a much faster and easier way to get your pvp rewards instead of trying to get 10 people to play with all the time. In order to combat this "path of least resistance" behavior, Blizzard introduced the second reason that rated BG's didn't work. They tried to force people to do rated BG's to get maximum PvP rewards. And I'm pretty sure everyone know's what happens when you are forced to do something, you end up hating it.

 

The last reason that I believe rated BG's didn't go so well in WoW was because the BG's weren't designed with that type of play in mind. Imagine an original Warsong Gultch match (before all the time limits, increased damage to the flag carrier, etc. were introduced) against 2 equally matched teams. It would literally never end.

 

Bioware is in a much better position to successfully run rated Warzones. There is no arena (which is an absolute nightmare to balance, fyi the main reason I don't want to see it in this game) already in this game that offers easy rewards. The smaller warzone sizes are much more rated WZ friendly. The faster pace should also keep things interesting.

 

If people really want a pure "kill everything in site" experience, I think BW should introduce some kind of King of the Hill Warzone. One spot to capture, whichever side has the most people in the spot earns the points, so killing everyone in sight is literally how you capture the objective. I just don't think arena brings anything to PvP outside of giving people bragging rights, which rated WZ's should do anyway. So, there really is no need for it...

[Mirialol]

Surprise. Wow had arenas and was unbalanced. SWTOR doesn't have arenas and is balanced. So how arenas affect so-called 'balance'?

 

WoW's pvp was destined to be unbalanced with or without arena, because of the CC / diminishing returns system. Not to mention that blizzard simply slapped arenas into the game, and neglected it completely for years for most part. SWTOR pvp is based on resolve system, and data from 1v1 matchups can point out any unbalance issues, something wow never did

 

and stop trolling this thread with your uneducated, uninformed nonsense

[DarthRaneDeer]

yea i posted this with assumption that these UI issues / lack of macros and combat logs will be fixed in near future

 

but speaking class balancewise, swtor now is no worse than beginning of TBC

 

BW just said in the guild summit there will be no combat macros.... (hopefully that does not inlcude targetting macros)

 

bummer I know.

Edited March 16, 2012 by DarthRaneDeer

[Mirialol]

That was a very well thought out post. I particularly appreciated that you took the time to explain how Blizzard wished they could "uninvent" arena play. Unfortunately, I think Blizzard made the right move trying to down play arenas and introduced the rated battlegrounds.

 

In WoW, rated battlegrounds didn't work for a few reasons. First and foremost, arenas were already in the game and organizing 5 (or the easiest of all just 2) people onto a team was a much faster and easier way to get your pvp rewards instead of trying to get 10 people to play with all the time. In order to combat this "path of least resistance" behavior, Blizzard introduced the second reason that rated BG's didn't work. They tried to force people to do rated BG's to get maximum PvP rewards. And I'm pretty sure everyone know's what happens when you are forced to do something, you end up hating it.

 

The last reason that I believe rated BG's didn't go so well in WoW was because the BG's weren't designed with that type of play in mind. Imagine an original Warsong Gultch match (before all the time limits, increased damage to the flag carrier, etc. were introduced) against 2 equally matched teams. It would literally never end.

 

Bioware is in a much better position to successfully run rated Warzones. There is no arena (which is an absolute nightmare to balance, fyi the main reason I don't want to see it in this game) already in this game that offers easy rewards. The smaller warzone sizes are much more rated WZ friendly. The faster pace should also keep things interesting.

 

If people really want a pure "kill everything in site" experience, I think BW should introduce some kind of King of the Hill Warzone. One spot to capture, whichever side has the most people in the spot earns the points, so killing everyone in sight is literally how you capture the objective. I just don't think arena brings anything to PvP outside of giving people bragging rights, which rated WZ's should do anyway. So, there really is no need for it...

 

yes that is very true

 

 

but i was thinking that arena could be used as a tool to balance classes in PvP

 

i really got tired of blizzard trying to balance classes arbitrarily without data / justification, and don't want bioware to walk down that path. i just tried to propose a fair, factual system to achieve class balance

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[ebigz]

As a multi-gladiator warrior from WoW, I can tell you now this game is not ready for Arena. I enjoy the pvp in this game a lot, but this game doesn't even have macros to support focus targets and the character interaction still feels clunky, keybinds sometimes don't go off, etc. Unless you're wanting to treat it like skimishes then Arena would just put the imbalances of these classes under more scrutiny.

 

Have to agree there. I'd love to see arenas in this game but they need to iron out all of these issues and more.

[Zhaker]

Why I think Arenas is stupid:

 

1. This is a War settings, having arenas spoils it. WoW did that and I was thinking ok so are we fighting Horde or having proxies?

 

2. 1v1 Balance is never going to work, when one class dominates, most people will either whinge and complain about the advange or roll to that class to get that balance. Balance can only be achieved if ALL CLASSES were the same, but they arent and 1v1 means dick **** unless your the class with all the utilities and DPS.

 

3. You love

 

What I would really want to see:

 

- Squad based WZ of 4 ppl, isntead of 8 have matches for 4v4 or 16v16.

 

- More WZ variety besides Assault, King of the Hill, and Huttball, maybe do like pod racing with pvp weapons, or a DotA style battle, or even Ship battles and maybe like sieging a base.

[vimm]

i spent 3 hours writing this post and this is your response? bet you didnt even take 2 minutes to read my post

 

i'll report your response as 'garbage'

 

You're not embarrassed to admit that? lol

[iceperson]

you complain because classes are unbalanced in pvp

 

 

but now you say you're going to complain if classes become perfectly balanced 50:50. classes can be balanced while still retaining their individuality and class defining abilities.

 

 

what do you really want?

 

Find me complaining about balance in pvp. I think this is one of the most balanced MMOs I've played. The classes are unique and interesting and the group balance is pretty good (not perfect, but good.) I don't want perfectly balanced 1v1 in my MMO, if it ever gets to that then it means they've removed every interesting ability and homogenized the game into oblivion.

[stineo]

As long as arenas doesn't affect PvE balancing of classes, I don't see a problem with them adding more content for the masses.

[vimm]

this x10

 

 

 

But they add a fun factor that players like me need.

 

Apparently you don't need it.

[stineo]

WoW's pvp was destined to be unbalanced with or without arena, because of the CC / diminishing returns system. Not to mention that blizzard simply slapped arenas into the game, and neglected it completely for years for most part. SWTOR pvp is based on resolve system, and data from 1v1 matchups can point out any unbalance issues, something wow never did

 

and stop trolling this thread with your uneducated, uninformed nonsense

 

World PvP will always be a cluster F in the MMO world. It's always more fun with ranged attackers while melees get screwed.

[Jesmcalli]

i spent 3 hours writing this post and this is your response? bet you didnt even take 2 minutes to read my post

 

i'll report your response as 'garbage'

 

Arenas were what caused imbalances in WOW PVP in the first place, so no. Arenas in SWTOR will end up just like WOW's did, with FOTM comps that pretty much roll everything else. Then we'll start seeing nerfs that affect warzone and PVE play.