Darthater asks BW about engine optimization.

[Kitzinger]

I don't have the problem he is discussing. Game runs fine for me. I also don't push my computer seeing that I can't replace it easily if I kill it.

[OddballEasyEight]

I have a 6core amd processor, GF 460gtx and 4gb of ddr3 ram, and the performance for me is appalling. I play with most of the sliders on their lowest possible setting to get bearable fps in warzones, but still the load times are huge, and there are still the occasional fps drops, and honestly the avarage fps is still like 15-30. Opening the inventory etc does cause a hickup, as does getting a kill in ilum. Also, the game starts running slower and slower the longer it is on due to memory leaking. After some hours it will start being almost unplayable, which means it's time to restart the game. Just quitting the game takes like 2-3 minutes at that point.

 

I honestly don't know how people can defend the engine. If a rig that can run every other new game with great fps on very high settings can't properly run this game, then there is something seriously wrong here. It's hardly the fault of the user, is it? The especially weird thing is that people with worse rigs get much better performance.

 

This is really my only problem with the game itself, and because Bioware doesn't even seem aware of the problem, I'm pretty worried that I'll never be able to run this game as well as I should be able to run it.

 

Whats your processor speed?

 

Alot of people say stuff like "ive got a 6 core processor and the game sucks on it" not realising that SW:TOR (currently) only runs on one processor. So whilst you might have a 6 core processor and i only have a dual core, my game might run much much smoother because i have a better speed on my processor.

Ive got a 3.3ghz dual core, and i run the game fine (not great, but fine with shadows off.) at 50-60 fps most of the time, but it bogs down alot when PvP'ing.

Now, if you have a 6 core processor that is 2.3ghz, that basically means that youre running SW:TOR on a computer that is 1ghz slower than mine since it only uses one of those processors...

[Samborino]

I have a 6core amd processor, GF 460gtx and 4gb of ddr3 ram, and the performance for me is appalling. I play with most of the sliders on their lowest possible setting to get bearable fps in warzones, but still the load times are huge, and there are still the occasional fps drops, and honestly the avarage fps is still like 15-30. Opening the inventory etc does cause a hickup, as does getting a kill in ilum. Also, the game starts running slower and slower the longer it is on due to memory leaking. After some hours it will start being almost unplayable, which means it's time to restart the game. Just quitting the game takes like 2-3 minutes at that point.

 

I honestly don't know how people can defend the engine. If a rig that can run every other new game with great fps on very high settings can't properly run this game, then there is something seriously wrong here. It's hardly the fault of the user, is it? The especially weird thing is that people with worse rigs get much better performance.

 

This is really my only problem with the game itself, and because Bioware doesn't even seem aware of the problem, I'm pretty worried that I'll never be able to run this game as well as I should be able to run it.

 

It honestly seems like an AMD problem, i have 0 issues (except for 50+ ppl on ilum) with my i7 2700k ocd to 4.5 with watercooling. No ui stutter , No framerate issues (with everything on max)

 

MY graphics card isnt even that great i have a 1gb 6870. I have always been extremely sensitive to FPS issues in games, but i can safely say that i rarely experience them in this game.

 

The one place that it got to me was before and during the first Boss in Karraga's Palace but thats the only place ive ever had a noticeable FPS drop aside from when there is 50-60+ ppl on ilum)

 

Obviously regardless of whether it is an amd specific problem or not it isnt acceptable. Your ram is a bit low though to be honest, so that could be part of your problem, especially if your only turning the sliders down. If its becoming unplayable after some hours it sounds like it could be a memory leak (or heating issues).

[Samborino]

Whats your processor speed?

 

Alot of people say stuff like "ive got a 6 core processor and the game sucks on it" not realising that SW:TOR (currently) only runs on one processor. So whilst you might have a 6 core processor and i only have a dual core, my game might run much much smoother because i have a better speed on my processor.

Ive got a 3.3ghz dual core, and i run the game fine (not great, but fine with shadows off.) at 50-60 fps most of the time, but it bogs down alot when PvP'ing.

Now, if you have a 6 core processor that is 2.3ghz, that basically means that youre running SW:TOR on a computer that is 1ghz slower than mine since it only uses one of those processors...

 

Swtor currently uses all the processors you throw at it, show me your source because i used to think the same thing but it was just some guy on a forum (not this site) saying that.

 

In one of the darth hater interviews from the guild summit (i beleive thats where it was from) one of the developers said that it currently utilizes up to 4 cores or something along those lines.

[OddballEasyEight]

Swtor currently uses all the processors you throw at it, show me your source because i used to think the same thing but it was just some guy on a forum (not this site) saying that.

 

In one of the darth hater interviews from the guild summit (i beleive thats where it was from) one of the developers said that it currently utilizes up to 4 cores or something along those lines.

 

Then i stand corrected, if you can link to that i would appreciate it since all ive heard since day 1 is that the hero engine does not multicore.

[Samborino]

Then i stand corrected, if you can link to that i would appreciate it since all ive heard since day 1 is that the hero engine does not multicore.

 

Maybe the original hero engine doesnt but the extremely modified hero engine BW ended up with does.

 

First of all look at the minimum system requirements from the FAQ

 

 

I am interested in purchasing Star Wars: The Old Republic but do not know if my PC can support it. What are the minimum system requirements needed to run the Game?

 

 

Processor:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better

Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 2.0GHz or better

 

 

If in fact it only worked on single core, then certainly it wouldnt require dual core processors with low ghz to run it. There is no way a single core 2ghz processor could run this game even if it did have terrible FPS. Also on my windows 7 i have a widget that allows you to see what cores are being used, before i open the game my cpu usage is at one percent after i open it my cpu usage on 4 of the 8 threads (2700k is multi threaded so it technically has 8 cores, sort of) are in usage.

 

I think what you mean is that SWTOR isnt multithreaded (but there are very very few games that are)

 

I will find the article, where one of the developers say that swtor handles any cores you throw at it , if your still unsatisfied.

[Samborino]

Couldnt find that interview but they definitely said it.

 

This is something more definitive then a developer saying it in an interview though. A third party reliable source testing it with multiple cores.

 

"Performance seems to scale with up to four threads"

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/star-wars-gaming-tests-review,3087-8.html

 

It definitely uses all 4 threads, he was testing how well it scales between 2 and four, and the results where that 4 was better.

[Meldwyn]

One thing is for sure, the game is not optimized for multiple configs. It would appear that you have to have some exact configuration for this game not to have lag and low fps at times or all the time.

 

The fact that there have been so many discussions about this, tells me there is a problem with their design.

 

I know my rig chugs in Fleet and in large groups... for get about it.

[kidatwood]

I've played this game on 4 different computers now. All laptops. The first one was a Toshiba dual 2.0 the second was my wife's Dell which was dual 2.2. The third one was a rented one which was a pavilion with dual 2.3. Thanks to a healthy tax refund I bought a new pavilion. That has 2.1 that Turbo to a 2.5. My pointis that with each upgrade I got a prefomance boost! Now I'm not saying that it doesn't studder at times but it is very minimal. This same thing happened when I played galaxies and wow as the time goes by we will hear less and less about fp issues cause the computer tech will overtake and surpass these specs. Until the next big game comes out and were back to square one.

[Tiam]

Do you need me to make some for you?

 

Yah, and do it in Illum to when there's more than 10 people on the screen.

[juanni]

So, is this trolling, or do you seriously believe that the lag in those videos is some kind of a big joke? Either way, that's sad, brah.

 

If the only example of lag they are going to show is them spam opening their character screen and inventory, then I don't see what the problem is.

 

P.S. I'm not your "brah"

[Tool_of_Society]

A virus has to be identified first before countermeasures can be built to disable it. Same thing happening in the human body all the time.

 

I have 3 systems running on my purchased McAfee package and so far there have been no notable anomalies for me personally. But thanks for voicing your concerns. I'll run some additional checks tomorrow.

You are correct and I run multiple detection methods to increase my chances of finding new viruses. I'm more concerned with the footprint on your systems.

[DataBeaver]

I think what you mean is that SWTOR isnt multithreaded (but there are very very few games that are)

How do you propose it uses more than one core with a single thread? The other option is to use multiple processes, but communicating between processes has much more overhead than between threads.

 

That aside, the game does seem capable of using more than one core. On my laptop (Intel Core i5, two physical cores with HT for four virtual cores), task manager's performance tab shows two cores at 60-80% utilization, one at 40-60% and one at 30-50%. In total, that works out to 230% utilization (compared to a single fully-utilized core).

[Samborino]

How do you propose it uses more than one core with a single thread? The other option is to use multiple processes, but communicating between processes has much more overhead than between threads.

 

That aside, the game does seem capable of using more than one core. On my laptop (Intel Core i5, two physical cores with HT for four virtual cores), task manager's performance tab shows two cores at 60-80% utilization, one at 40-60% and one at 30-50%. In total, that works out to 230% utilization (compared to a single fully-utilized core).

 

Sorry thats not what i mean, It uses a single thread on each core it cant use a cores multithreading capabilities.

 

Such as my i7 2700k has 4 cores but 8 threads, SWTOR will make use of the 4 cores but it will not make use of both threads in each core. Most games arent multithreaded (that is the term they use on tomshardware to define programs that do not use multiple threads in a core, hence why i used it) so its not something that is specific to TOR.

 

It sounds like it is making use of the hyperthreading on your computer but im pretty sure Tor makes use of a single thread on each core but not the hyperthreading , that could just be other processes on your computer. I could be wrong though.

 

Basically there is a difference between saying a program supports multicore program and a multithreaded one, if you go by the terms literally there might be some confusion i guess because each core certainly does have AT least one thread. I guess the term just assumes that you know they mean multiple threads per core

Edited March 15, 2012 by Samborino

[SweKaiser]

I get a freeze when inviting someone to a group. Also sometimes when i open my backpack so i think its the engine aswell. Wouldnt say its crappy, but could do some work for sure.

[Drewser]

I 100% dont have this issue. I am running an i7 2700k oc'd to 4.5 ghz with Liquid Cooling

 

8 gigs of 1600 corsair ram

 

Radeon HD 6870 1gb

 

I have 120 gig SSD but TOR isnt installed on it, just operating system + games that dont update often

 

Motherboard Asus p8p67 pro rev 3.1

 

 

No issues whatsoever except for when there is 50+ ppl on each side in ilum, even 20v20 i was getting decent framerates late during the night a few weeks ago.

 

Post a video of opening and closing your character screen/inv while running. I have zero FPS issues but still get that hitch.

[Samborino]

Post a video of opening and closing your character screen/inv while running. I have zero FPS issues but still get that hitch.

 

Honestly i really dont care if anyone beleives me, i mean i can replicate that issue if i spam it back and forth every second. If i just open it once though it doesnt have that issue no frame skip no nothing for character screen or bags. Im never going to be spamming it back and forth so for me there isnt an issue.

 

Im just happy that it works for me, i dont need to prove it to everyone else. If it did that i would say so, i have nothing to gain by saying that it works for me if it doesnt.

 

I certainly am not going to waste time recording a video then uploading it to a site to appease the users of this forum though. Sorry =(

 

If you dont beleive me im perfectly cool with that

[Drewser]

Honestly i really dont care if anyone beleives me, i mean i can replicate that issue if i spam it back and forth every second. If i just open it once though it doesnt have that issue no frame skip no nothing for character screen or bags. Im never going to be spamming it back and forth so for me there isnt an issue.

 

Im just happy that it works for me, i dont need to prove it to everyone else. If it did that i would say so, i have nothing to gain by saying that it works for me if it doesnt.

 

I certainly am not going to waste time recording a video then uploading it to a site to appease the users of this forum though. Sorry =(

 

If you dont beleive me im perfectly cool with that

 

I don't. As I said, the game runs great on my system and I was sure I didn't have that issue until I tried it.

 

It certainly is not game breaking but I'd love to see someone show they don't have this issue.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Drewser

[Holden_Dissent]

I have a pretty outdated computer. The only thing it really has going for it is a GTX 285. Only 4gb or ram and a 4+ year old AM2 motherboard.

 

My computer plays this game just fine. The inventory hitching is something completely different than FPS issues. So we should probably break that clownery out into it's own thread.

[Wolfbad]

It doesn't matter if you aren't having issues, a lot of people that really shouldn't are. What the **** do you think engine optimizations are in the first place? Maybe it's not working right for certain hardware. That's why it needs to be optimized.

 

Additionally, you're full of **** if you say Ilum runs at anything above 20fps in larger battles regardless of your configuration. That's a problem

Edited March 15, 2012 by Averran
ic

[Rikeryo]

inventory hitching is a result of bad programming. when you hit the inventory key the engine stops rendering and waits for information from the server.

 

and it's no secret that the engine performs like crap on many good / high end rigs. proof? head over to the CS forum and do some research. or temporary rename the swtor_main_art_fx_1.tor in your assets directory, start the game and experience magically raised framerates. or disable the UI. why? because particle effects are one major cause for fps problems, it doesn't matter which GPU you're running. most people were monitoring their gpu/cpu usage while playing warzones, guess what? 10-30% GPU usage, 40% cpu usage (on each core), low fps.

 

if you have a rig that is capable of running !every! game flawlessly EXCEPT sw:tor, who do you think has to be blamed?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Rikeryo

[drosalion]

Post a video of opening and closing your character screen/inv while running. I have zero FPS issues but still get that hitch.

 

^ This, I have yet to know of a single person that doesnt get lag (however minor) when opening the character screen or inventory (and usually completing a quest too). Someone upload a video with 0 lag as i really doubt its possible.

[Valkirus]

I don't know of anyone who doesn't get a freeze opening their inventory bag or when the quest/valor updates in Ilum.

 

Every single one of my guildmates has this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk

 

Then you do not know me.

[pmiles]

LOL, reminds me of the old joke...

 

"Hey Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

"Then don't do that."

 

Having the beastliest machine in the world doesn't change the fact that your machine is having issues that are only being highlighted by a particular application. You could run apps for years never knowing you had some bad RAM... until that one day you actually ran an app that addressed the bad sector of your RAM. You will swear up and down that it's the software because everything else runs just fine. Just an example, but people are always looking at the latest software added to the system as the problem... when the problem may have been there all along just dormant.

 

If a lesser machine is running it just fine, you have already proven that the issue doesn't affect all machines. Thus the problem can be traced back to the individuals machine... be it hardware or software.

[Rikeryo]

then you do not know me.

 

what is this sorcery?